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mhalko1 wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

I don't think Orikan is bad, you're paying 20 pts to get a melee monster in the late game combined with a 6" 5+ invul aura instead of a staff of light and a 3" 5+ invul vs shooting aura. He's not the right choice for buffing LG, simply because Sautekh LG are bad, that doesn't mean he's not a worthwhile upgrade in certain Sautekh lists.

He is either dead or the game is over when he gets empowered by turn 3/4. Even if he gets empowered earlier its hard to get him anywhere because he is slow. You need a teleport/veil/deceiver for him.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

mhalko1 wrote:
I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths.

There is no viability of monoliths. Knights will delete a monolith in one turn. Every faction has high powered guns with high AP, the monolith doesnt stand a chance. At 1k maybe, but not at 1,5k+.

I have played a monolith in exactly 1 game. I won that game, however, the thing basically just ate Dark Angels Hellblaster fire for 2 turns and died, without dealing almost any damage. Its very underwhelming at its current price point. However, it serving as a distraction carnifex let my x10 Warscythe Lychguard + Obyron + Zandrekh + VoD + deceiver combo basically eat his whole army. Sadly, had my opponent known better, it would not have gone down that way.

See when I ran it last, I was playing against a nid lists with 3 carnifex-1 was a stonecrusher, flying HT, swarmlord, genestealers, gaunts and broodlord. The Particle whip was putting 4 wounds on a carnifex per turn and the flux arcs were putting another 1-2. it took 3 turns before he got near me but this allowed the infantry to open up on his infantry. I think I would need to fight an all knight list because I can see how they wouldn't turn out very well but so far I have fought lists with mostly a moderate mix of units.

Wait... you beat a CC list/army with 10 lychguard and 2 characters? How did he take 3 turns to get into combat with Swarmy and GS? I can regularly get 2 units of GS into a T1 charge (unless its Hammer and avil and opponent deploys way back, then its only 1. Was this using Beta DS rules?

Perhaps he had scarab road bumps

Im going to ETC style team tournament of 18 teams per 8 players at June 7-8 with silver tide style army.



Will report results afterward.

Generally im afraid of anti-mass infantry builds (like 6x dakkafex + purestrain genestealers) and imperial knights.

Not sure about eldar (havent played against them after FAQ) and dark eldar (havent played against them at all). Can someone give tips and ideas whether i want to play those or not?

Is orikans 5+ invuln sv worth using sautekh as battalion ? Your DDAs and warriors dont get much benefit from sautekh. How about making the DDAs a seperate detachment ? They would be better in a nihilakh or mephrit detachment. You could keep orikan for the 5+ invuln sv, but you would need another HQ. Or how about replacing orikan with a chronotek and making the batallion nihilakh or mephrit ? Anrakyr isnt much help until your warriors get into melee. Replace him with szeras to buff your warriors ?

 p5freak wrote:
Is orikans 5+ invuln sv worth using sautekh as battalion ? Your DDAs and warriors dont get much benefit from sautekh. How about making the DDAs a seperate detachment ? They would be better in a nihilakh or mephrit detachment. You could keep orikan for the 5+ invuln sv, but you would need another HQ. Or how about replacing orikan with a chronotek and making the batallion nihilakh or mephrit ? Anrakyr isnt much help until your warriors get into melee. Replace him with szeras to buff your warriors ?

I thought DDAs were quite happy with Sautekh? Allows them to jump around after a while to bring their Arrays into range or jump onto objectives, and they could throw some extra punch with the +1 to hit stratagem

DDAs benefit from Sautekh but also do well out of mephrit. Warriors are much better with Mephrit though. I'd go Mephrit.

Definitely keep Anrakyr. He solves the outrider HQ being useless problem and makes warriors much much better. I wouldn't use warrior blobs without him.

It depends on what kind of list your running between sautekh and mephrit honestly. Mephrit warriors are awsome but not of they have to walk up the field all game, they will never get there. Sautekh are not as powerful but at least the added mobility helps make them a stronger contender for battlefield adaptations. Personally I go Sautekh for my silver legion. 2 X 20 warriors, 1 cryptek, and a ghost ark with 10 more warriors is pretty effective.

Thank you about feedback, but list is already locked, so can't change it.

-Sentinel- wrote:

Not sure about eldar (havent played against them after FAQ) and dark eldar (havent played against them at all). Can someone give tips and ideas whether i want to play those or not?

Can someone help with that?

torblind wrote:
I thought DDAs were quite happy with Sautekh? Allows them to jump around after a while to bring their Arrays into range or jump onto objectives, and they could throw some extra punch with the +1 to hit stratagem

I didnt say sautekh is useless for DDAs. MD costs you 2 CP, dynasty codes are free. I dont want my DDA to jump around, cant use high powered profile.

Azuza001 wrote:It depends on what kind of list your running between sautekh and mephrit honestly. Mephrit warriors are awsome but not of they have to walk up the field all game, they will never get there. Sautekh are not as powerful but at least the added mobility helps make them a stronger contender for battlefield adaptations. Personally I go Sautekh for my silver legion. 2 X 20 warriors, 1 cryptek, and a ghost ark with 10 more warriors is pretty effective.

Its not always necessary to run across the whole battlefield with your warriors. Some opponents will deepstrike and try to charge them. When they fail the charge they will be within half range.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Sentinel- wrote:
Thank you about feedback, but list is already locked, so can't change it.

-Sentinel- wrote:

Not sure about eldar (havent played against them after FAQ) and dark eldar (havent played against them at all). Can someone give tips and ideas whether i want to play those or not?

Can someone help with that?

All i can tell you is to kill dark reapers ASAP. They have been nerfed, but remain pretty strong. Alaitoc like to stack minus to hit modifiers, so anything that autohits (sautekh abyssal staff) , or similiar (ctan shards) should be useful.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
DDAs benefit from Sautekh but also do well out of mephrit. Warriors are much better with Mephrit though. I'd go Mephrit.

Definitely keep Anrakyr. He solves the outrider HQ being useless problem and makes warriors much much better. I wouldn't use warrior blobs without him.

I would never use Anrakyr for this list. Switch him out for a Chronotek to give the Destroyers a 5++ and +1 to RP. The Nephrekh Code allows the Chronotek to auto advance 11", which lets him keep up with the Destroyers. It also saves you 72 points.

+1 Attack is great for Warriors blobs in theory, but your Warriors should never be getting into CC enough to make him worth taking. Increasing the Destroyer's durability and making target priority harder for your opponent is much more valuable imo.

redmetal wrote:
Hey!
Long time lurker, first time poster here!

Got myself a lowpoint game coming. About 750 or 1000 points.
I dont got that much miniatures: 1 Overlord, 1 Cryptek, Szeras, 40 warriors, 5 immortals, 3 Destroyer, 1 Heavy Destroyer, 1 Triarch Stalker, 6 Scarabs.
My opponent will prox some more units, so that is an option for me this game. I came up with this:


Mephrit Battalion

HQ
Cryptek - VoD, Chrono, SoL
Overlord - WL: Merciless Tyrant - Voltaic Staff

Troops
Immortals Tesla x 10 (proxed by warriors)
Immortals Tesla x 5
Warriors x 10

Fast Attack
Scarabs x 3
Destroyer x 3

753 points

Plan was to veil the 10 Teslamortals with MWBD (into cover) with the Cryptek and pressure the opponent and walk up with the warriors and OL.
Or I scratch my proxing idea and go for 5 Teslamortals, 14 warriors, 10 warriors for 751 points. More so, go for Immortal pride and Melee or the VStaff?
What do you guys think?

Its honestly a solid starter list for 750.
At this point level, you won't get much mileage out of a chronometron. I'd drop it to save 15 points, then grab 1 more warrior, and that way you aren't over points.
Then after that I'm not sure Immortal Pride is gonna help you much yet. It works best with 20 man warrior squads run tightly together. I'd work to get more destroyers, they are the all-stars of our codex. Merciless Tyrant+ Staff is good, but only if you get inside 18 inches, which is another issue entirely. What sort of army are you gonna face?

Necron_Mason wrote:
[


+1 Attack is great for Warriors blobs in theory, but your Warriors should never be getting into CC enough to make him worth taking...

Why not?

Warriors can do serious work at close quarters with Mephrit + Anrakyr. It also raises the bar for how tough a unit needs to be to shut down the Warriors shooting by locking them in combat.

Anrakyr changes Warriors form shooting units into a hybrid shooting + CC units.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Necron_Mason wrote:
[


+1 Attack is great for Warriors blobs in theory, but your Warriors should never be getting into CC enough to make him worth taking...

Why not?

Warriors can do serious work at close quarters with Mephrit + Anrakyr. It also raises the bar for how tough a unit needs to be to shut down the Warriors shooting by locking them in combat.

Anrakyr changes Warriors form shooting units into a hybrid shooting + CC units.

Perhaps drop 4-5 cheap tomb blades in front of your warriors as CC shield? ( They then fly away and CC unit goes down in blaze of glory)

2 attacks at WS 3+, S4, AP0, D1 does not a close combat unit make.

Or could praetorians have value as CC shield? Buffed by Anrakyr even

 JNAProductions wrote:
2 attacks at WS 3+, S4, AP0, D1 does not a close combat unit make.

Their shooting is 2x S4 attacks. With Anraky their close combat is 2x S4 attacks. Hence, "hybrid shooting + CC unit". Pretty straight forward.

They get AP-1 in shooting (-2 if mephrit) so it is a little better, but the +1 Strength strat is well worth 1 CP if you're charging in with 40 attacks hitting on 2's from MWBD.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
2 attacks at WS 3+, S4, AP0, D1 does not a close combat unit make.

Their shooting is 2x S4 attacks. With Anraky their close combat is 2x S4 attacks. Hence, "hybrid shooting + CC unit". Pretty straight forward.

They get AP-1 in shooting (-2 if mephrit) so it is a little better, but the +1 Strength strat is well worth 1 CP if you're charging in with 40 attacks hitting on 2's from MWBD.

Also Anrakyr is the difference that those warriors in two phases comfortably clear that 15-20 guardsmen blob meant to keep them busy for the reminder of the game. Especially if he heroically chips in 4 attacks on his own.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
2 attacks at WS 3+, S4, AP0, D1 does not a close combat unit make.

Their shooting is 2x S4 attacks. With Anraky their close combat is 2x S4 attacks. Hence, "hybrid shooting + CC unit". Pretty straight forward.

They get AP-1 in shooting (-2 if mephrit) so it is a little better, but the +1 Strength strat is well worth 1 CP if you're charging in with 40 attacks hitting on 2's from MWBD.

IF we want to take this to its logical maximum. You do it this way.

2x20 Warriors
Anrakyr
Cryptek with Chrono, Immortal Pride Warlord Trait, Veil of Darkness

Use Phaeron's will from Anarakyr to buff both warriors with MWBD. That's 80 str 4, ap-2 shots, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem on one squad to make them shoot more on 6s.
Followed up by both charging. With Anrakyr's buff, that's another 80 melee attacks at str 4, ap 0, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem to have one squad fight again.

Expensive, but it will certainly ruin something's day. That's 160 to 200 str 4 attacks, all hitting on 2s. As an added bonus, its all fearless, so morale is a non-issue.

 iGuy91 wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
2 attacks at WS 3+, S4, AP0, D1 does not a close combat unit make.

Their shooting is 2x S4 attacks. With Anraky their close combat is 2x S4 attacks. Hence, "hybrid shooting + CC unit". Pretty straight forward.

They get AP-1 in shooting (-2 if mephrit) so it is a little better, but the +1 Strength strat is well worth 1 CP if you're charging in with 40 attacks hitting on 2's from MWBD.

IF we want to take this to its logical maximum. You do it this way.

2x20 Warriors
Anrakyr
Cryptek with Chrono, Immortal Pride Warlord Trait, Veil of Darkness

Use Phaeron's will from Anarakyr to buff both warriors with MWBD. That's 80 str 4, ap-2 shots, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem on one squad to make them shoot more on 6s.
Followed up by both charging. With Anrakyr's buff, that's another 80 melee attacks at str 4, ap 0, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem to have one squad fight again.

Expensive, but it will certainly ruin something's day. That's 160 to 200 str 4 attacks, all hitting on 2s. As an added bonus, its all fearless, so morale is a non-issue.

Can't fight again unless Novokh

 iGuy91 wrote:


IF we want to take this to its logical maximum. You do it this way.

2x20 Warriors
Anrakyr
Cryptek with Chrono, Immortal Pride Warlord Trait, Veil of Darkness

Use Phaeron's will from Anarakyr to buff both warriors with MWBD. That's 80 str 4, ap-2 shots, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem on one squad to make them shoot more on 6s.
Followed up by both charging. With Anrakyr's buff, that's another 80 melee attacks at str 4, ap 0, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem to have one squad fight again.

Expensive, but it will certainly ruin something's day. That's 160 to 200 str 4 attacks, all hitting on 2s. As an added bonus, its all fearless, so morale is a non-issue.

That's how I've run it, with the addition of a C'tan (usually the Deceiver). Not fighting twice though as that requires Novokh and I favor Mephrit. I don't find the Mephrit strat to be worth it though. Disruption fields definitely is.

Also Anrakyr is the difference that those warriors in two phases comfortably clear that 15-20 guardsmen blob meant to keep them busy for the reminder of the game. Especially if he heroically chips in 4 attacks on his own.

Also the difference between killing half the unit of Genestealers in your face, or wiping out all 20.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:


IF we want to take this to its logical maximum. You do it this way.

2x20 Warriors
Anrakyr
Cryptek with Chrono, Immortal Pride Warlord Trait, Veil of Darkness

Use Phaeron's will from Anarakyr to buff both warriors with MWBD. That's 80 str 4, ap-2 shots, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem on one squad to make them shoot more on 6s.
Followed up by both charging. With Anrakyr's buff, that's another 80 melee attacks at str 4, ap 0, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem to have one squad fight again.

Expensive, but it will certainly ruin something's day. That's 160 to 200 str 4 attacks, all hitting on 2s. As an added bonus, its all fearless, so morale is a non-issue.

That's how I've run it, with the addition of a C'tan (usually the Deceiver). Not fighting twice though as that requires Novokh and I favor Mephrit. I don't find the Mephrit strat to be worth it though. Disruption fields definitely is.

Also Anrakyr is the difference that those warriors in two phases comfortably clear that 15-20 guardsmen blob meant to keep them busy for the reminder of the game. Especially if he heroically chips in 4 attacks on his own.

Also the difference between killing half the unit of Genestealers in your face, or wiping out all 20.

Doh
You're right. I suppose instead of fight twice, you could give one a +1 to their Strength, so 80 str 4 ap-2, 40 str 4 ap0, 40 str 5, ap0

 iGuy91 wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:


IF we want to take this to its logical maximum. You do it this way.

2x20 Warriors
Anrakyr
Cryptek with Chrono, Immortal Pride Warlord Trait, Veil of Darkness

Use Phaeron's will from Anarakyr to buff both warriors with MWBD. That's 80 str 4, ap-2 shots, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem on one squad to make them shoot more on 6s.
Followed up by both charging. With Anrakyr's buff, that's another 80 melee attacks at str 4, ap 0, hitting on 2s. Use a stratagem to have one squad fight again.

Expensive, but it will certainly ruin something's day. That's 160 to 200 str 4 attacks, all hitting on 2s. As an added bonus, its all fearless, so morale is a non-issue.

That's how I've run it, with the addition of a C'tan (usually the Deceiver). Not fighting twice though as that requires Novokh and I favor Mephrit. I don't find the Mephrit strat to be worth it though. Disruption fields definitely is.

Also Anrakyr is the difference that those warriors in two phases comfortably clear that 15-20 guardsmen blob meant to keep them busy for the reminder of the game. Especially if he heroically chips in 4 attacks on his own.

Also the difference between killing half the unit of Genestealers in your face, or wiping out all 20.

Doh
You're right. I suppose instead of fight twice, you could give one a +1 to their Strength, so 80 str 4 ap-2, 40 str 4 ap0, 40 str 5, ap0

If you can bring everything to bare, you're looking at 78 dead GEQs, includes exploding 6s stratagem (for 4-5 extra models)

On a related note, Anrakyr is the only Necron HQ who I've found to be worth anything in HtH. The S8 makes a big difference when he's whacking space marine HQs or primaris marines. +1 Attack is great too.


I'd really like to use Mind in the Machine on an imperial knight. So many fancy guns to choose from.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On a related note, Anrakyr is the only Necron HQ who I've found to be worth anything in HtH. The S8 makes a big difference when he's whacking space marine HQs or primaris marines. +1 Attack is great too.

True, true, just wish there was some way to transport him around more easily to get him there.

Necron_Mason wrote:
+1 Attack is great for Warriors blobs in theory.

It's also great in practice. Sometimes you don't need any fancy AP-4 melee weapons, just 38 attacks hitting on 2+, wounding on 3s, re-rolling wound rolls of 1 can do a lot of damage against some armies. I've had great success with Anrakyr Warriors against Harlequins and I think it might do okay against DE as well, depending on how good the DE player is.

I lost an ITC game against Imperial Knights with my Triarch Praetorian list. My opponent brought 2 melta-knights, 2 gatling knights, 1 fighty knight all with 6+ FNP. My opponent warned me beforehand, but I didn't take proper heed of his warning, I dropped my first Knight turn 3, he dominated the board and I got hardly any VPs before I got wiped. My 16 Scarabs stopped 3 Knights for 2 turns and another 2 Knights for 1 turn, but slowing him down didn't achieve much since he had more relevant shooting than I had and he also had more relevant melee. I can see how this would get old quickly. What you want is enough firepower to bait out rotate ion shields and then some to focus on a second Knight. Gauss Tomb Blades would probably have done some damage.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
On a related note, Anrakyr is the only Necron HQ who I've found to be worth anything in HtH. The S8 makes a big difference when he's whacking space marine HQs or primaris marines. +1 Attack is great too.


I'd really like to use Mind in the Machine on an imperial knight. So many fancy guns to choose from.

I failed my 4+ with a re-roll the one turn I was in range. It was down to 5+ to hit anyways, so not a huge deal, but still.

mhalko1 wrote:
I'd like to revisit the viability of monoliths. They are very expensive at 381, but I feel like the amount of shooting they provide, and the fact that they can act as LoS blockers can make them extremely useful. The fact the main gun is heavy 6 vs D6 is amazing. I never really roll less than 3 hits per. Plus at d3 damage they were making work of monsters. It may be the fact that at a 1500 point game the 20 wounds and T8 made it hard to penetrate and the anti tank is limited. But even over 1500 if you slip a 2nd one in it makes it really hard to deal with. Now dont get me wrong I'm not playing itc matches or entering tournaments but the games we play are still very competitive, my opponent ran the daemonic circus BS from 7th. I wanted to know what everyone else thought

Heavy 6 is bad, it's 380 pts, it should be Heavy 12, it's smaller guns should be rapid-fire 3, it should be movement 8 so it's easier to protect it from death hugs. Try taking two DDAs, chances are your opponents suck if you're wiping them with a Monolith. It's not about the pts size, I don't care if you're playing 500 pts, it's bad if you play with the beta-rules. Everything about it is bad, from it's half-what-it-should-be shooting to it's turn 2 DS to it bringing units forward to it acting as a teleport beacon for units OUT OF COMBAT that need to catch the bus to one of your 380 pt bus-stops that slither up the table 4-6", to their medicore durability.

Think of the Imperial Knight, are you really willing to forego 6" movement and ability to fall back through infantry for DS? Are you willing to forego 8 attacks in melee for the mortal wounds if your opponent doesn't just pile into you? Are you willing to lose 4 wounds and 6+ FNP (effectively another 5 wounds) for living metal and Sautekh/Mephrit? Are you willing to halve your firepower and lose your 5+ invul vs shooting for the option of spending CP to mobilize your units? No Monoliths are trash, I'll consider stomping mine to pieces if they're not fixed come next CA.

 iGuy91 wrote:

True, true, just wish there was some way to transport him around more easily to get him there.

Its ridiculous. He is called the traveller and he cant take a transport, he cant deepstrike, he cant be put on the tombworld to be teleported. Is the deceiver the only way to get him somewhere fast ?

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

True, true, just wish there was some way to transport him around more easily to get him there.

Its ridiculous. He is called the traveller and he cant take a transport, he cant deepstrike, he cant be put on the tombworld to be teleported. Is the deceiver the only way to get him somewhere fast ?

Well if you're going down the rerolling 1 to wound route there is the zahndrekh obyron combo with the added fun of another 300 points

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Their shooting is 2x S4 attacks. With Anraky their close combat is 2x S4 attacks. Hence, "hybrid shooting + CC unit". Pretty straight forward.

They get AP-1 in shooting (-2 if mephrit) so it is a little better, but the +1 Strength strat is well worth 1 CP if you're charging in with 40 attacks hitting on 2's from MWBD.

vict0988 wrote:

Necron_Mason wrote:
+1 Attack is great for Warriors blobs in theory.

It's also great in practice. Sometimes you don't need any fancy AP-4 melee weapons, just 38 attacks hitting on 2+, wounding on 3s, re-rolling wound rolls of 1 can do a lot of damage against some armies. I've had great success with Anrakyr Warriors against Harlequins and I think it might do okay against DE as well, depending on how good the DE player is.

The problem is that 2 S4 AP-1 shooting hits is better than 2 S4 AP0 CC hits in pretty much every situation, as well as having a screen of Scarabs and shooting from behind them is nearly always better than having +1 Attack on Warriors and assaulting with them or letting them get assaulted. Anything that the +1 Attack would be good against either will not assault you or you should have a screen in front of you to prevent them from assaulting you. It does have niche uses, like against CC units that can bypass your Scarabs screens such as Harlequins and flying units, but against MEQ, GEQ, and most other enemies it's a point sink that isn't worth it.

If you know you are going up against CC units that can bypass Scarab screens, you can drop the Scarabs and use those points to upgrade an Overlord to Anrakyr. Otherwise, Scarab screens are the more effective option.

torblind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

True, true, just wish there was some way to transport him around more easily to get him there.

Its ridiculous. He is called the traveller and he cant take a transport, he cant deepstrike, he cant be put on the tombworld to be teleported. Is the deceiver the only way to get him somewhere fast ?

Well if you're going down the rerolling 1 to wound route there is the zahndrekh obyron combo with the added fun of another 300 points

You cant do that. Obyron can only take a unit of sautekh infantry with him. Anrakyr has no dynasty.

Ah right!