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Here's an idea for a list with the whole 'Screw a battalion' mindset:

Nephrekh Outrider detachment

Cloaktek

6x Wraiths

6x Destroyers

6x Destroyers

9x Tomb Blades /w Telsa & Shield Vanes

Nihalkh Spearhead detachment

Cloaktek

3x DDA

I am tempted to make the spearhead Mephrit, just to give the DDA's more close-range fire support in case the enemy doesn't have (many) tanks.



This is almost 2000 points, skip a tomb blade or a destroyer to get 2x3 scarabs for some objective holders.

That's a pretty ideal list if you ask me. My last tournament I really felt the struggle with the battalion tax in my one loss.

Doctoralex wrote:
Here's an idea for a list with the whole 'Screw a battalion' mindset:

Nephrekh Outrider detachment

Cloaktek

6x Wraiths

6x Destroyers

6x Destroyers

9x Tomb Blades /w Telsa & Shield Vanes

Nihalkh Spearhead detachment

Cloaktek

3x DDA

I am tempted to make the spearhead Mephrit, just to give the DDA's more close-range fire support in case the enemy doesn't have (many) tanks.



This is almost 2000 points, skip a tomb blade or a destroyer to get 2x3 scarabs for some objective holders.

My planned 2k list is:

Sautekh Outrider

Cloaktek with the Abyssal Staff

x6 Destroyers

x9 Tomb Blades with Gauss, vanes and scopes

x9 Tomb Blades with Tesla, vanes and scopes

3 units of 3 scarabs, maybe adding in a couple more depending on final points

then a Nihilakh spearhead detachment

led by a lord with a hyperphase sword

x2 DDA's

2 units of 3 heavy destroyers

I don't agree with the Lord in that second detachment as he's only affecting the Heavy Destroyers. Cloaktek makes more sense there.

That's all I want him to affect. I want the H.D's to be more reliable and he's cheaper than a cloaktek. Living metal is worthless as a special rule and DDA's are made of paper so if an enemy wants them to die, they will die.

Running DDAs without a battalion isn't a good idea. You need CP for quantum deflection and damage control override. I wonder if a list with Wraith and destroyers only, with some scarabs, would work. A destroyer lord with crimson haze to buff wraiths and a cloaktek for the destroyers. Its weird that a destroyer lord with crimson haze is more useful buffing wraith than going with destroyers.

 Bosskelot wrote:
That's all I want him to affect. I want the H.D's to be more reliable and he's cheaper than a cloaktek. Living metal is worthless as a special rule and DDA's are made of paper so if an enemy wants them to die, they will die.

But he's how much cheaper than a Cloaktek?

Ok so today, I met the necrons. It was painful. The destroyers with the stratagem rerolled everything for 1 PC, it was awful, but overall except this, and even if I was playing against Imothek, they didn't feel overpowered or anything.
The scarabs were annoying too, I had to use anti tank weaponry to destroy them !
But I have to point out that RP isn't as bad as you seem to think, as the opponent has to finish the unit, with whatever unit / weapons it has left, even if some weapons would be better advised against others units. RP doesn't really protect the unit that has it, indeed, but it protects the others units by making your opponent finish this particular unit. Once you have shooted a necron unit, you have to finish it. You can't do otherwise or you would have wasted a precious turn.

 godardc wrote:
Ok so today, I met the necrons. It was painful. The destroyers with the stratagem rerolled everything for 1 PC, it was awful, but overall except this, and even if I was playing against Imothek, they didn't feel overpowered or anything.
The scarabs were annoying too, I had to use anti tank weaponry to destroy them !
But I have to point out that RP isn't as bad as you seem to think, as the opponent has to finish the unit, with whatever unit / weapons it has left, even if some weapons would be better advised against others units. RP doesn't really protect the unit that has it, indeed, but it protects the others units by making your opponent finish this particular unit. Once you have shooted a necron unit, you have to finish it. You can't do otherwise or you would have wasted a precious turn.

That would be a good point if units couldn't split fire, making it so that an opponent would theoretically have to dedicate another unit's worth of shooting to take down the last Necron standing. Unfortunately split firing is something that exists in this edition.

Sure the opponent might have to dedicate a Lascannon shot to finish off that last resilient Immortal, but it comes with a heavy asterisk. The only real time that would happen is when the opponent has already wiped out one or two units and throwing what little anti-infantry they have left into the next unit to then follow up with the anti-tank to finish off said unit, or when they didn't bring enough anti-infantry in the first place. The first instance results us losing two to three units and not getting to use an ability we pay a big tax for, and the second instance relies on your opponent making poor list choices.

Have to mention as well that anti-tank isn't even useful against our tanks due to QS. Normally that would be great, but to get that we then became weaker to mass amounts of small fire, which just so happens to be what the rest of our army is weak against. Against a DDA 20 Bolter shots do a little bit more damage than 3 Lascannons. Anti-tank usually goes to waste against a Necron army and is better invested into more shots.

New topic

Are Tomb Stalkers (The Choppy Ones) any good? What reasons can you think when they'd be better than taking wraiths, if at all? They cost the exact same as 3 wraiths, so what do you think?

 iGuy91 wrote:
New topic

Are Tomb Stalkers (The Choppy Ones) any good? What reasons can you think when they'd be better than taking wraiths, if at all? They cost the exact same as 3 wraiths, so what do you think?

The damage output really doesn't quite make up for the lack of invul or quantum shielding in my opinion. The sentinel I could consider.

There is little reason to pick a tomb stalker over 3 wraith. T7 and living metal is nice, but useless when the model dies in the same turn. It can deepstrike, but has the usual problem of making the 9" charge. Only one model, no chance to reanimate, wraith can reanimate for 2 CP. No invuln sv, slower, doesnt ignore models and terrain, less attacks, average damage is the same. If you want to use a stalker use the sentinel. Less attacks, but a much better gun.

Maybe as a distraction carnifex ?

Necrons can hardly afford a distraction carnifex, our units are pretty expensive, even overpriced.

 iGuy91 wrote:
New topic

Are Tomb Stalkers (The Choppy Ones) any good? What reasons can you think when they'd be better than taking wraiths, if at all? They cost the exact same as 3 wraiths, so what do you think?

You need to build up some sort of synergy, in which teleporting in the stalker doesn't make him the priority target but he is still a meaningful addition to the part of the battlefield, not sure how.

It has deep strike which the wraiths do not.

Perhaps 20 mephrit warriors veiled in by a lord, a substantial threat. Then in addition beam in the stalker to provide the CC threat in addition.

-Sentinel- wrote:
Im going to ETC style team tournament of 18 teams per 8 players at June 7-8 with silver tide style army.

Spoiler:

Sautekh +5 CP

HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]

Nephrekh +1 CP
HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]

Total: 1999
CP: 9

Will report results afterward.

So i played tournament. I was acting as a defender all 4 games: 1st, 2nd and 4th as first defender. 3rd as third defender.

First game against tau - 3 riptides and lot of 5-man troops squads. Win first turn, advanced all warriors forward, DDA fly forward. Lost a squad and DDA turn one. Then i managed to charge and live through close combat with 2 squads. Lost all but those 2 squads and herooes though. Due to huge maelstorm lead, i win 20-0.

2nd against Big G - 40 sniper scouts, Tigurius, 2 bike caps, 3 hunters. He just couldn't kill squad of warriors entirely. 20-0.

3rd against Drukhari - 10 and 9 grotesques, 3 ravager, 3 per 5 scourges, flyer, support heroes and troops. Was locked at my side of table. Fortunatelly my opponent was a bit slow and clocked himself, so i could have a free turn before dicedown. Not that much helped, 5-15 lost.

4th against Eldar + Harlequins. Managed to survive solitaire + shining spears charge turn 1. After that warriors advanced forward, took relic from rangers killing 4 eldar HQs in close combat in process. Lost all but 5 warriors on a relic though up to turn 7. 20-0

Thats a good concept. Anrakyr + Orikan combo helps warriors a lot.

-Sentinel- wrote:

-Sentinel- wrote:
Im going to ETC style team tournament of 18 teams per 8 players at June 7-8 with silver tide style army.

Spoiler:

Sautekh +5 CP

HQ: Lord (73) - Hyperphase Sword (3) [76] Warlord: Immortal Pride, Artefact: Veil of Darkness
HQ: Orikan the Diviner [115]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Troops: 19x Necron Warriors [228]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark [193]

Nephrekh +1 CP
HQ: Anrakyr the Traveller [167]
Fast Attack: 6x Destroyers [300]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]
Fast Attack: 3x Canoptek Scarabs [39]

Total: 1999
CP: 9

Will report results afterward.

So i played tournament. I was acting as a defender all 4 games: 1st, 2nd and 4th as first defender. 3rd as third defender.

First game against tau - 3 riptides and lot of 5-man troops squads. Win first turn, advanced all warriors forward, DDA fly forward. Lost a squad and DDA turn one. Then i managed to charge and live through close combat with 2 squads. Lost all but those 2 squads and herooes though. Due to huge maelstorm lead, i win 20-0.

2nd against Big G - 40 sniper scouts, Tigurius, 2 bike caps, 3 hunters. He just couldn't kill squad of warriors entirely. 20-0.

3rd against Drukhari - 10 and 9 grotesques, 3 ravager, 3 per 5 scourges, flyer, support heroes and troops. Was locked at my side of table. Fortunatelly my opponent was a bit slow and clocked himself, so i could have a free turn before dicedown. Not that much helped, 5-15 lost.

4th against Eldar + Harlequins. Managed to survive solitaire + shining spears charge turn 1. After that warriors advanced forward, took relic from rangers killing 4 eldar HQs in close combat in process. Lost all but 5 warriors on a relic though up to turn 7. 20-0

Thats a good concept. Anrakyr + Orikan combo helps warriors a lot.

Huzzah for Silver Tide working!

Questions:

-How useful was Sautekh? Would Mephrit have worked better for the extra AP?

-How useful was Orikan’s 5++ in melee? Would a regular Cryptek/w Chronemetron have given the same results?

-How would Szeras have functioned in your list? Was the 5++ against shooting invaluable or do you think his upgrades woud have helped a lot?

-Would a Ressurection Orb have made a lot of difference?

Doctoralex wrote:


Huzzah for Silver Tide working!

Questions:

-How useful was Sautekh? Would Mephrit have worked better for the extra AP?

-How useful was Orikan’s 5++ in melee? Would a regular Cryptek/w Chronemetron have given the same results?

-How would Szeras have functioned in your list? Was the 5++ against shooting invaluable or do you think his upgrades woud have helped a lot?

-Would a Ressurection Orb have made a lot of difference?

Orikan heplped a lot. 5++ increases warriors survivability drastically - both against shooting and melee. He is main reason i want Sautekh. But also i had advanced with warriors 3 out of 4 games and used methodical destruction in 1 game. DDA moved across the field 2 out of 4 games. So yes, i think Sautekhs are better.

I think 3 additional warriors are better than res orb since opponent tries to finish your squads. Often he even succeeds.

I still think we are tier 3 army. But this is a good build between stuff that we have.

-Sentinel- wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:


Huzzah for Silver Tide working!

Questions:

-How useful was Sautekh? Would Mephrit have worked better for the extra AP?

-How useful was Orikan’s 5++ in melee? Would a regular Cryptek/w Chronemetron have given the same results?

-How would Szeras have functioned in your list? Was the 5++ against shooting invaluable or do you think his upgrades woud have helped a lot?

-Would a Ressurection Orb have made a lot of difference?

Orikan heplped a lot. 5++ increases warriors survivability drastically - both against shooting and melee. He is main reason i want Sautekh. But also i had advanced with warriors 3 out of 4 games and used methodical destruction in 1 game. DDA moved across the field 2 out of 4 games. So yes, i think Sautekhs are better.

I think 3 additional warriors are better than res orb since opponent tries to finish your squads. Often he even succeeds.

I still think we are tier 3 army. But this is a good build between stuff that we have.

How do you think you'd fare against a solid AM gunline?

-Sentinel- wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:


Huzzah for Silver Tide working!

Questions:

-How useful was Sautekh? Would Mephrit have worked better for the extra AP?

-How useful was Orikan’s 5++ in melee? Would a regular Cryptek/w Chronemetron have given the same results?

-How would Szeras have functioned in your list? Was the 5++ against shooting invaluable or do you think his upgrades woud have helped a lot?

-Would a Ressurection Orb have made a lot of difference?


Yeah sautekh and advances up with their Dynastry triat helps a lot. Especially if you can set up a rapid fire and charge for the next turn.

Orikan heplped a lot. 5++ increases warriors survivability drastically - both against shooting and melee. He is main reason i want Sautekh. But also i had advanced with warriors 3 out of 4 games and used methodical destruction in 1 game. DDA moved across the field 2 out of 4 games. So yes, i think Sautekhs are better.

I think 3 additional warriors are better than res orb since opponent tries to finish your squads. Often he even succeeds.

I still think we are tier 3 army. But this is a good build between stuff that we have.

torblind wrote:

-Sentinel- wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:


Huzzah for Silver Tide working!

Questions:

-How useful was Sautekh? Would Mephrit have worked better for the extra AP?

-How useful was Orikan’s 5++ in melee? Would a regular Cryptek/w Chronemetron have given the same results?

-How would Szeras have functioned in your list? Was the 5++ against shooting invaluable or do you think his upgrades woud have helped a lot?

-Would a Ressurection Orb have made a lot of difference?

Orikan heplped a lot. 5++ increases warriors survivability drastically - both against shooting and melee. He is main reason i want Sautekh. But also i had advanced with warriors 3 out of 4 games and used methodical destruction in 1 game. DDA moved across the field 2 out of 4 games. So yes, i think Sautekhs are better.

I think 3 additional warriors are better than res orb since opponent tries to finish your squads. Often he even succeeds.

I still think we are tier 3 army. But this is a good build between stuff that we have.

How do you think you'd fare against a solid AM gunline?

Well, according to net-wisdom nothing can stand up to a good AM gunline because IG is so stupidly OP, so whats the point in asking? lmao Here we go again!

 iGuy91 wrote:

torblind wrote:

-Sentinel- wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:


Huzzah for Silver Tide working!

Questions:

-How useful was Sautekh? Would Mephrit have worked better for the extra AP?

-How useful was Orikan’s 5++ in melee? Would a regular Cryptek/w Chronemetron have given the same results?

-How would Szeras have functioned in your list? Was the 5++ against shooting invaluable or do you think his upgrades woud have helped a lot?

-Would a Ressurection Orb have made a lot of difference?

Orikan heplped a lot. 5++ increases warriors survivability drastically - both against shooting and melee. He is main reason i want Sautekh. But also i had advanced with warriors 3 out of 4 games and used methodical destruction in 1 game. DDA moved across the field 2 out of 4 games. So yes, i think Sautekhs are better.

I think 3 additional warriors are better than res orb since opponent tries to finish your squads. Often he even succeeds.

I still think we are tier 3 army. But this is a good build between stuff that we have.

How do you think you'd fare against a solid AM gunline?

Well, according to net-wisdom nothing can stand up to a good AM gunline because IG is so stupidly OP, so whats the point in asking? lmao Here we go again!

Well you could at least have a meaningful presence. One could hope.

But 3 DDAs, a pylon, 2*6 destroyers and 12 wraiths should out a dent in him. (And your 2k point limit) but yeah, not really an answer to that I guess

@Torblind

Oh, I know, I'm just messing with you. That's about as good as we get. I just like poking fun at hysteria.

So yes, what Torblind said. That's good advice.

 iGuy91 wrote:
@Torblind

Oh, I know, I'm just messing with you. That's about as good as we get. I just like poking fun at hysteria.

So yes, what Torblind said. That's good advice.

Sure, no, figured as much, I was hoping to get a micrometer wiser on how much you can deviate from that as-good-as-possible-tailored-for-AM-gunline and still do well against other armies.

Impressed with what I heard about that silvertide, without deceiver even

torblind wrote:


How do you think you'd fare against a solid AM gunline?

With knights codex meta deviated from punishers to more anti-tank versions. Without themi dont feel that warriors in danger that much.
If i go first i should have a decent chance. Charge them turn 1-2, box some models preventing him from quiting close combat, engage leman russes. Win on mission.

Problems comes when AM player takes Imperial knight. Thats huge OP concept, i agree.

ETC have basically abandoned necrons. ONE non 3 vault list in the entire thing. whelp

 rvd1ofakind wrote:
ETC have basically abandoned necrons. 1 non 3 vault list in the entire thing. whelp

Called it. As soon as all the codices have been released, we will be the laughing stock bottom-tier codex again, just like with the index.

So...let's hope for massive point drops in CA i guess?

Knowing GW, Destroyers, DDAs, Tesseract Arks, will all get more expensive, and everything else will get slightly cheaper, which will actually make us worse.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Knowing GW, Destroyers, DDAs, Tesseract Arks, will all get more expensive, and everything else will get slightly cheaper, which will actually make us worse.

Actually, they aren't much in the habit of lowering the cost of things; just raising them.