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2018/08/27 14:05:58
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Arachnofiend wrote: I don't think any reasonable points reductions will actually help Necrons. A lot of our issues are more fundamental than just numbers. Like, all the points drops in the world won't change the fact that the Monolith doesn't function as a transport until turn three.
I mostly agree. There are things that are just frustrating - Monolith's staggeringly inefficient transport ability, or Anrakyr being locked out of any way to actually get him where you need him - but the sheer point cost of trying to run different tactics is an issue, as well. Point reductions would make it a lot easier to build efficient battalions and still run our more specialized units.
rvd1ofakind wrote: Oh and one pretty annoying thing for Reaper: if the models RP and get killed again, they get counted for reaper... AGAIN.
Thats ridiculous. I cant choose not to reanimate. I have to. This can be exploited by the opponent by not killing the entire unit, forcing reanimation rolls, which then can get killed again, counting towards reaper.
2018/08/27 18:23:42
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
rvd1ofakind wrote: Oh and one pretty annoying thing for Reaper: if the models RP and get killed again, they get counted for reaper... AGAIN.
Thats ridiculous. I cant choose not to reanimate. I have to. This can be exploited by the opponent by not killing the entire unit, forcing reanimation rolls, which then can get killed again, counting towards reaper.
C'mon man. Necrons have to be toned down, they were way too out of line :> :> :>
Although it is not THAT big of a deal. Only silver tide lists are really concerned about this one.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/27 18:25:07
Well to be fair they kinda threw us a bone by getting rid of gang busters. You could do the same thing, only a lot easier. It's one reason why I don't take the unkillable destroyer lord. Too easy to give up Kingslayer
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2018/08/30 09:13:58
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Okay so mr. "how many armies you have?" seems to start necrons as well. Already had necrons from forgebane. Had been thinking of selling but instead one person was selling even more necrons for very cheap price...Okay not huge pile but enough I figured I should have ~1000 pts already for 45e extra investment...
Anyway should be having then:
3 HQ model on foot
command barge
20 immortals(not sure on weapons on 10, rest on sprues)
5 lychguard/praetorians
6 wraiths
triach stalker
Suggestions on how to proceed? Destroyers probably obvious choise. Not that it will be fast. ORKS are first. Now to think up colour scheme. Own scheme for a change. I'm leaning toward Sautekh for at least main bulk though could see using 2nd detachment with something else.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/08/30 12:17:34
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
6 destroyers, 6-12 Scarabs if you can find someone selling them on thier own, a pair of DDAs.
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2018/08/31 02:41:38
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I know we suck at 2k because of meta but do we suck at 2k+ e.g. 2500pt, 3000pt etc ?
I'd think so.
Going down, yo perhaps 1500 or 1250, it might be easier as RP might play a role and destroyers might live long enough to kill the lone tank he can afford
2018/08/31 11:01:04
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
The plan is to have the Crypteks castled within the immortals and Lychguard respectively to make best use the bubbles.
The Chronometron Cryptek will use his Veil of Darkness to pop up with the Immortals in a convenient spot and fire away.
The Flying Cryptek can zoom around with the Pretorians.
The Deathmarks deepstrike to either secure an objective or counter enemy deepstrikers/Characters.
The Wraiths wreak havoc in melee or fish for MW with their Beams.
Suggestions and comments are highly appreciated!
Looks speedy and interesting, give it a try!
Someone is bound to pop in and say "Destroyers!", but try it out and see what you like. Wraiths can keep busy the things that destroyers would destroy. Praetorians can keep most other things busy.
2018/08/31 14:53:22
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I am not a fan of Deathmarks. For grabbing a backfield objective, okay, but don't expect them to be able to kill a character with shooting - their gun's just too wimpy.
Praetorians - I want to like them but they're *so* expensive.
2018/08/31 15:03:35
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I know we suck at 2k because of meta but do we suck at 2k+ e.g. 2500pt, 3000pt etc ?
I'd think so.
Going down, yo perhaps 1500 or 1250, it might be easier as RP might play a role and destroyers might live long enough to kill the lone tank he can afford
This man is correct. The more points you play, the worse Necrons get.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/08/31 17:36:19
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'd recommend dropping the Deathmarks for 5x Immortals, then split the other group to upgrade from a Patrol for the CP, personally.
I concur with momerathe on the Praetorians; I much prefer running Lychguard to Praetorians. No shooting, but much deadlier in melee for 2 points less per model, or slightly deadlier in melee and much much harder to kill for 2 points more per model.
Plus, Praetorians don't get any benefits from the Cryptek; note that they don't have <Dynasty>, so double check all your auras and buffs to see which affect them. To my knowledge, the only ones that do are the Triarch Stalker, Imotekh's My Will Be Done (but none of his other abilities), Anrakyr the Traveller and, Illuminor Szeras.
I wasn't aware that Pretorians don't have the <Dynasty> keyword. That's a big drawback, especially considering their high point cost.
@torblind: Yeah, speed was pretty much the theme I was going for, sice Necrons are commonly refered to as slow and sluggish, so I thought I could surprise my opponent this way.
@momerathe: I like the Deathmarks for their unique mobility and their MWs on 6s, but they are a one-trick pony indeed. One unit of 10 (when expanding to 1500 points) in rapid fire range is 3.3 mortal wounds on average plus the normal hits, which should be good enough to get rid of W3/W4 characters after deep striking. which seems okay to me and I really like their aesthetics as well
@Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll:
A second unit of Immortals is definitely next on the bucket list. Lychguard do seem more worthwhile after what you and momerathe said, but I'm worried they'll never get anywhere with that M5.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/31 19:18:47
2018/08/31 19:42:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
The problem with using 10 deathmarks to kill a character is that its not cost efficient. You are spending 190 points to kill something that's worth less that. Yes, characters do provide buffs, but that's still a sizable investment being sacrificed.
Then again, no other necron unit can do that, so go ahead I guess.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/08/31 20:10:31
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Don't focus too much on the mw mechanic, they deep strike and provide decent volumes of S4 fire, goes well with Mephrit for small point games, perhaps also a Lord that veiled up with some immortals, suddenly you are wrecking havoc on one flank out of nowhere.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/31 21:03:55
2018/08/31 20:33:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
First off, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I've never played above a novice level, and a lot of my advice of how to run things doesn't work above a certain level. Normally I'm aware of that and will try to mention it, but often not.
Lychguard M5 does suck. Shieldguard have the toughness to slog it out on their slow walk up the board without dying, but that's still probably not until turn 2 and most likely not until turn 3 that they start actually doing anything and by that point a game is already won or lost.
Scytheguard on the other hand definitely require either a Night Scythe or the Deceiver or even a Deceiver-Zandrekh-Obyron combo list to really pull off. Nephrekh Scytheguard are also decent, you can also use the Nephrekh 1CP strategem to SUA 9" them.
Night Scythe strategy is pretty simple; turn 1 your Night Scythe flies up to 60" to land where you want to drop your Lychguard. At that point, your enemy will either kill your Night Scythe, or just move everything out of charge range, because beginning of your Turn 2, you Invasion Beams in your Lychguard. If they kill your Night Scythe, use 1CP to use Emergency Invasion Beam get your Lychguard in anyway, or run 2 Night Scythes (they're Hard to Hit, so them killing 2 in Turn 1 is unlikely).
The second fun thing about Night Scythes is that they're not actually Transports, which is why I mention running two. Your Lychguard can come out of whichever one survived/seems like a better position at the beginning of 2nd.
Nephrekh is a pretty easy to understand one; 6" Advances will get you a guaranteed 2nd-Turn charge even with 5" move, and might even do better than the SUA 9" will.
The Deceiver combo is a favourite of mine though I have yet to actually try it in person. In it's simplest form, the Deceiver allows you to set up itself and/or D3 Necron units (any of them that are on the battlefield) after all other setup but before the first turn begins, 12" from any enemy models. The downside, is they can't charge.
There's a way to get around that though. If instead of sending in your Lychguard directly, you send in Nemesor Zandrekh, and he then moves towards the enemy, then you use Vargard Obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle to remove him and the Lychguard, and SUA within 6" of Zahndrekh and more than 1" from enemy models. That's right, only 1". That's a guaranteed charge there. If you can't get that close, Advance Zandrekh as well, because Advancing is also done in the Movement phase. This is a super complicated way to do it, but a unit of 10 Warscythe Lychguard and Obyron guaranteed hitting turn 1 is pretty deadly, especially given how hard it is to deny them the landing space. To make it even deadlier, you could potentially have 1 or 2 other units that you were able to SUA with the Deceiver at the beginning, which can either shield Zandrekh if the other guy goes first (and doesn't fall for the trap of shooting the C'tan first), or deliver their own punch (I like to bring either Heavy or Rapid Fire weapons here depending on the targets available, as Heavy units won't count as having moved, and Rapid Fire units will be able to easily get into RF range if they do. Double bonus for bringing Mephrit, as you'll also be in half-range for their bonus to AP, but that requires a second detachment.)
I have a fun 2000 points army that revolves around that latter strategy that I'm slowly working on building up.
Edit: oh, I forgot the easiest thing as well; a character with the Veil of Darkness. Duh. Definitely the cheapest and most hassle-free approach.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/31 20:34:19
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: First off, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I've never played above a novice level, and a lot of my advice of how to run things doesn't work above a certain level. Normally I'm aware of that and will try to mention it, but often not.
Lychguard M5 does suck. Shieldguard have the toughness to slog it out on their slow walk up the board without dying, but that's still probably not until turn 2 and most likely not until turn 3 that they start actually doing anything and by that point a game is already won or lost.
Scytheguard on the other hand definitely require either a Night Scythe or the Deceiver or even a Deceiver-Zandrekh-Obyron combo list to really pull off. Nephrekh Scytheguard are also decent, you can also use the Nephrekh 1CP strategem to SUA 9" them.
Night Scythe strategy is pretty simple; turn 1 your Night Scythe flies up to 60" to land where you want to drop your Lychguard. At that point, your enemy will either kill your Night Scythe, or just move everything out of charge range, because beginning of your Turn 2, you Invasion Beams in your Lychguard. If they kill your Night Scythe, use 1CP to use Emergency Invasion Beam get your Lychguard in anyway, or run 2 Night Scythes (they're Hard to Hit, so them killing 2 in Turn 1 is unlikely).
The second fun thing about Night Scythes is that they're not actually Transports, which is why I mention running two. Your Lychguard can come out of whichever one survived/seems like a better position at the beginning of 2nd.
Nephrekh is a pretty easy to understand one; 6" Advances will get you a guaranteed 2nd-Turn charge even with 5" move, and might even do better than the SUA 9" will.
The Deceiver combo is a favourite of mine though I have yet to actually try it in person. In it's simplest form, the Deceiver allows you to set up itself and/or D3 Necron units (any of them that are on the battlefield) after all other setup but before the first turn begins, 12" from any enemy models. The downside, is they can't charge.
There's a way to get around that though. If instead of sending in your Lychguard directly, you send in Nemesor Zandrekh, and he then moves towards the enemy, then you use Vargard Obyron's Ghostwalk Mantle to remove him and the Lychguard, and SUA within 6" of Zahndrekh and more than 1" from enemy models. That's right, only 1". That's a guaranteed charge there. If you can't get that close, Advance Zandrekh as well, because Advancing is also done in the Movement phase. This is a super complicated way to do it, but a unit of 10 Warscythe Lychguard and Obyron guaranteed hitting turn 1 is pretty deadly, especially given how hard it is to deny them the landing space. To make it even deadlier, you could potentially have 1 or 2 other units that you were able to SUA with the Deceiver at the beginning, which can either shield Zandrekh if the other guy goes first (and doesn't fall for the trap of shooting the C'tan first), or deliver their own punch (I like to bring either Heavy or Rapid Fire weapons here depending on the targets available, as Heavy units won't count as having moved, and Rapid Fire units will be able to easily get into RF range if they do. Double bonus for bringing Mephrit, as you'll also be in half-range for their bonus to AP, but that requires a second detachment.)
I have a fun 2000 points army that revolves around that latter strategy that I'm slowly working on building up.
Edit: oh, I forgot the easiest thing as well; a character with the Veil of Darkness. Duh. Definitely the cheapest and most hassle-free approach.
By the beta rules I don't think you can 1CP emergency disembark from a shot down night scythe up-field turn 1, it has to survice for turn 2.
2018/09/01 03:38:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: If they kill your Night Scythe, use 1CP to use Emergency Invasion Beam get your Lychguard in anyway, or run 2 Night Scythes (they're Hard to Hit, so them killing 2 in Turn 1 is unlikely).
An experienced player can kill 3 night scythes in one turn without a single shot or single attack.
2018/09/01 05:03:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: If they kill your Night Scythe, use 1CP to use Emergency Invasion Beam get your Lychguard in anyway, or run 2 Night Scythes (they're Hard to Hit, so them killing 2 in Turn 1 is unlikely).
An experienced player can kill 3 night scythes in one turn without a single shot or single attack.
Yes it is possible like you said but not an easy thing to do and impossible to pull that trick on turn 1.
2018/09/01 18:43:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: If they kill your Night Scythe, use 1CP to use Emergency Invasion Beam get your Lychguard in anyway, or run 2 Night Scythes (they're Hard to Hit, so them killing 2 in Turn 1 is unlikely).
An experienced player can kill 3 night scythes in one turn without a single shot or single attack.
Yes it is possible like you said but not an easy thing to do and impossible to pull that trick on turn 1.
How *exactly* does someone do that? Maybe I'm missing the point here. But I need to know for science.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/09/01 19:07:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
How *exactly* does someone do that? Maybe I'm missing the point here. But I need to know for science.
A flyer has a minimum move, its destroyed when it cant do that. Necron flyers cant hover, this isnt a problem for those who can do that. A flyer can rotate up to 90 degrees and then has to do its minimum move. I cant move the flyer where my models are. I have to keep away more than 1" from enemy models, if i cant do that i cant move, flyer is destroyed. If my opponent moves his models in the way of my flyer, so it cant move its minimum move, its destroyed. If i have to fly off the board the flyer is destroyed.
2018/09/01 19:11:21
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
How *exactly* does someone do that? Maybe I'm missing the point here. But I need to know for science.
A flyer has a minimum move, its destroyed when it cant do that. Necron flyers cant hover, this isnt a problem for those who can do that. A flyer can rotate up to 90 degrees and then has to do its minimum move. I cant move the flyer where my models are. I have to keep away more than 1" from enemy models, if i cant do that i cant move, flyer is destroyed. If my opponent moves his models in the way of my flyer, so it cant move its minimum move, its destroyed. If i have to fly off the board the flyer is destroyed.
But covering that 20-60" gap it can move especially with 90" degree. Turn 1 that's pretty much impossible. If nothing else necron can move along his own DZ. Frankly never seen being destroyed by enemy models ever. Just moving off board. And never ever on turn 1. Turn 3-4 maybe.
2024 painted/bought: 109/109
2018/09/01 19:11:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
The plan is to have the Crypteks castled within the immortals and Lychguard respectively to make best use the bubbles.
The Chronometron Cryptek will use his Veil of Darkness to pop up with the Immortals in a convenient spot and fire away.
The Flying Cryptek can zoom around with the Pretorians.
The Deathmarks deepstrike to either secure an objective or counter enemy deepstrikers/Characters.
The Wraiths wreak havoc in melee or fish for MW with their Beams.
Suggestions and comments are highly appreciated!
Necron characters are overpriced, try and take one Cryptek in three games and two Crypteks in three more games, see how it goes. Rod of Covenant is terrible, transdimensional beamer is bad.
Triarch Praetorians are far stronger than Lychguard if you're not going to Veil up the Lychguard, Praetorians are bad but M5 is hot garbage. You might say that you're willing to Veil them, but then you don't have the option of falling back and shooting or escape with a unit that has been surrounded or grab an objective, you're tying yourself down to make a bad unit less bad. Veiling up Lychguard might be amazing against noobs who don't screen, so your mileage may vary. Proxy and see what works, paint while you collect, it doesn't get easier once you have a 2k collection.
2018/09/01 20:26:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Does....anyone...ever have an issue with that? With a 60 inch potential move....how in the world can they cover...literally the whole board? I gotta say that sounds like a bizarre fringe case vs mega hordes...
Praets are plenty killy. They need DYNASTY CODES...and like...2-3 point drop in price.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/09/02 03:21:55
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Does....anyone...ever have an issue with that? With a 60 inch potential move....how in the world can they cover...literally the whole board? I gotta say that sounds like a bizarre fringe case vs mega hordes...
Praets are plenty killy. They need DYNASTY CODES...and like...2-3 point drop in price.
I'm fine with them not having the Codes. After all, they operate outside the Dynasties.
In my perfect little world though, they would be fixed like how I want Terminator variants fixed: WS/BS2+, and then their Strategem affects strictly their wound rolls in both the shooting and assault phase.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
7,000 pts
~1660
4000 pts
