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 Avatar 720 wrote:

torblind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Did anyone notice that you actually can roll RP for warriors three times per turn ? First you do your regular RP roll (before your turn begins), then immediately after that, you do it with a res orb or orb of eternity (still before your turn begins), and then a third time with a ghost ark. The ark says you cant do it in the same turn you used a res orb. But, RAW, either orb is used before your turn begins (note the wort immediately). Your turn begins with the movement phase, when you start moving your models. Battle primer, pg. 3 : "Start your Movement phase by picking one of your units and moving each model in that unit until you’ve moved all the models you want to." The movement phase is the first phase of your turn, before that your turn has not started.

Isn't RP done beginning of turn? How is that not the same turn?

It is, yes; even the Res. Orb says "at the beginning of your turn" in regards to having rolled for RP. The Eternity Orb does not, but since it's the same as the Res. Orb--immediately after rolling for RP--and RP is still in the turn sequence, it doesn't really matter.

Yes, true. My fault, its at the beginning of your turn not before your turn begins. But, i believe you can use the orb after the ghost ark. Which would allow you to reanimate your warriors three times in one turn. When you use the ghost ark the unit hasnt been a target of the orb. The orb happens in the future, not in the past.

You can never reroll a reroll.

 p5freak wrote:

 Avatar 720 wrote:

torblind wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Did anyone notice that you actually can roll RP for warriors three times per turn ? First you do your regular RP roll (before your turn begins), then immediately after that, you do it with a res orb or orb of eternity (still before your turn begins), and then a third time with a ghost ark. The ark says you cant do it in the same turn you used a res orb. But, RAW, either orb is used before your turn begins (note the wort immediately). Your turn begins with the movement phase, when you start moving your models. Battle primer, pg. 3 : "Start your Movement phase by picking one of your units and moving each model in that unit until you’ve moved all the models you want to." The movement phase is the first phase of your turn, before that your turn has not started.

Isn't RP done beginning of turn? How is that not the same turn?

It is, yes; even the Res. Orb says "at the beginning of your turn" in regards to having rolled for RP. The Eternity Orb does not, but since it's the same as the Res. Orb--immediately after rolling for RP--and RP is still in the turn sequence, it doesn't really matter.

Yes, true. My fault, its at the beginning of your turn not before your turn begins. But, i believe you can use the orb after the ghost ark. Which would allow you to reanimate your warriors three times in one turn. When you use the ghost ark the unit hasnt been a target of the orb. The orb happens in the future, not in the past.

Unfortunately not, since the Ark's rule happens at the end of the movement phase, well after RP/Res. Orb resolution.

EDIT: You may, however, be able to use the Orb of Eternity, since it doesn't specify the Res. Protocols at the start of the turn like a regular Orb does. RAW, this would allow you to use it after the RP rolls the Ark triggers, but it's an incredibly fringe usage.

 JNAProductions wrote:
You can never reroll a reroll.

You are not re-rolling a re-roll. Its a new roll. I opened a thread in YMDC about this, perfectly legal.

Just a quick sum up of the small tourney i went to.
I took a different list than posted here (list was made by @p5freak so kudos to him).

MyList


1st match was against a valiant, 2armigers and one dragoon.

If it wasnt for my wraiths the matches would have ended much earlier.
The sheer amount of fire power they took from my other units was amazing.
While the enemy was focusing them i scored objectives.
My destroyers died the turn after theyve been deployed.
Still the match ended 29 - 20 for him as after the wraiths have been eliminated he just flushed through my army.

2nd game was against a necron list.

This is the match where I scored a lot of points. My list just was superior to his and he had a lot of poor roles on his side. Unlucky for him.
The tombblades just did magic against his Immortals (Tesla AND Gauss) and even crippled his HDestroyers.

3rd match was against knights. Same list as the first but instead of valiant just a regular knight with avenger gatling canon and skitarii as battalion troops.

This was a stomp. The field we played on had ZERO terrain and so everything was in the open for his weapons. It didnt help that he was „THIS GUY“...denying me RP because I have forgotten about it and just moved one/two bikes therefore „skipping“ the RP phase...“moving“ his armigers through places where they didnt fit through by picking them up and just placing them where they have „moved“ and some gifted inches while meassuring...telling me destroyers were soooo strong and wraiths too and complaining about them being a pain in the ass...EDIT: he had no chance to become 1st 2nd or 3rd placed but still insisted on destroying all my units as he „needed the poins“...moving his knight 10“ and AFTER moving him up the 10“ he rotated him vertically so he gets LOS and some extra inches...PLUS it was a friendly tourney.

All in all I can say I hate Knights...They need to be nerfed into oblivion. Its just ridiculous...They have literally NO weakness. They are tuff, they have quality AND quantity shooting, they are strong in melee and they are mobile as hell AND they have some very strong stratagems..
Its just no fun to play against a death maschine where you know if you havent tailored your list youve lost.

my mvps were the wraiths by far. Not because of their killing power but because theyre so hard to shift with the 3++.
Unit im still not sure about is the Dlord. If he gets those 6es he probably is going to kill almost whatever he charged. If he fails however (and it happened) he probably just dies by the counter attack.
I loved my tombblades but sadly agains knights they have been nothing but target practice. But their mobility and anti infantry makes them sooo much more valuable for me than TImmortals.

Yep, i've been saying that for a while now. Knights are completely unbalanced for a random draw meta. If you know they are coming, they can be planned for, but taking a TAC list vs a Knight list is basically a guaranteed loss.

Knights are one of the most OP models in the game currently. I expect an nerf soon, either when the FAQ drops (this or next month), or with CA 2018 (probably december). While you can make an anti knight necron list its nearly impossible to win against them with an all corners list.

Yeh i agree ive shelved mine and ive only had them 4 months.

Personally build any list at the moment for knights in mind and worry about everything else after.

Though with the knights causing havoc, it makes our shields better. As people will be packing more high damage shots.

Yeah, i like running my lists troop heavy, but I can't justify it with those terrors running around. So i bring my own if there is a remote chance im fighting a knight.



Between the Pylon and the Arks, I should be able to easily kill a knight a turn. Ideally, going first of course. Cryptek just babysits the Pylon and DDAs

So I'm thinking about trying out a 2x tesseract vault 1x gauss pylon list. Has anyone done this yet? I'd love some input or feedback on how it did. Full list:
Nihilahk super heavy detachment
2x tesseract vault.
1x gauss pylon

Nihilahk out rider
1x cloaktek with enduring will and timesplinter cloak
2x4 scarabs
1x3 scarabs

Deciever.

How do you screen your pylon ? With scarabs ? Those are easily deleted, and when your pylon is in melee its shut down. How do you hold objectives when your scarabs screen your pylon ? How do you deal with 100+ models armies ?

 p5freak wrote:
How do you screen your pylon ? With scarabs ? Those are easily deleted, and when your pylon is in melee its shut down. How do you hold objectives when your scarabs screen your pylon ? How do you deal with 100+ models armies ?

Pylons can fire even if there are models within 1"

Furthermore, models within 1" of the pylon can still be shot at by the rest of your army

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
How do you screen your pylon ? With scarabs ? Those are easily deleted, and when your pylon is in melee its shut down. How do you hold objectives when your scarabs screen your pylon ? How do you deal with 100+ models armies ?

Pylons can fire even if there are models within 1"

Furthermore, models within 1" of the pylon can still be shot at by the rest of your army

Oh ok, i didnt know that.

Inevitableq wrote:
So I'm thinking about trying out a 2x tesseract vault 1x gauss pylon list. Has anyone done this yet? I'd love some input or feedback on how it did. Full list:
Nihilahk super heavy detachment
2x tesseract vault.
1x gauss pylon

Nihilahk out rider
1x cloaktek with enduring will and timesplinter cloak
2x4 scarabs
1x3 scarabs

Deciever.

That's the FULL list? Say something about hardcore counter that gets hard countered by other lists. I think this would be more appropriate for ETC enviroment. But any army with lots of models would have field day. I think my 1.5k ork list from last tournament would basically autowin. You wouldnt' get objectives nor have enough time to kill all 243 models(though seismic assault would be ouch I'll give you that)

My knights would absolutely hate you though

Inevitableq wrote:
So I'm thinking about trying out a 2x tesseract vault 1x gauss pylon list. Has anyone done this yet? I'd love some input or feedback on how it did. Full list:
Nihilahk super heavy detachment
2x tesseract vault.
1x gauss pylon

Nihilahk out rider
1x cloaktek with enduring will and timesplinter cloak
2x4 scarabs
1x3 scarabs

Deciever.

I posted a battle report earlier with the same list except I had a Sautekh Batallion for CP, the D3-1 healing isn't worth the extra CP from Hyperlogical Strategist. I think I also played my Vaults as Sautekh for the healing and tesla, I honestly have no idea how good Nihilakh Vaults are, I used the Stratagem once in this one game and my opponent just ignored that particular model for a turn. I'm not sure how many pts you're playing because your list doesn't add up to 1750 or 2k. I lost against BA because I deployed my Pylon to re-roll ones and then when my opponent tried to put his vehicles out of LOS of the Pylon I said it was good enough, in reality there was nowhere on the table where they could hide. Pylon got smashed by smashfucker, one of the Vaults got destroyed by shooting and Celestine and I played very defensively with my troops so they did nothing all game. I did very little damage to my opponent and he quickly wiped out the rest of my force.

I don't think the Pylon is good, your opponent is just going to save his rotate ion shields stratagem for the pylon and you'll be facing a 4+ invul, except when it's a 3+ invul and that's assuming your opponent isn't playing a list consisting entirely of units that don't mind being shot by a Pylon. If your opponent is bringing an AM commander you're looking at a re-rolled save every turn and one extra re-roll over the course of the game, your chances of one-shotting knights isn't what it was with the index and you're paying more now. I'd say Doomsday Arks all the way, they're less powerful against Knights, but not really by a lot compared to how useless the Pylon is going to be against hordes.

I played another game with my balanced Orikan list against a different Ork player with a more optimized list. Maelstrom CA race to victory. I went first but my opponent ended the game turn 4 by getting his tenth tactical objective so he won 17-10, I had completed 6 tactical objectives. I lost a doomsday ark, a big squad of Warriors, 5 Deathmarks and a Lord, the rest of my army was alive. My opponent had a weirdboy, big mob of boyz and 4 mek guns left, the rest of his list was dead.

Game:

List:

tneva82 wrote:

Inevitableq wrote:
So I'm thinking about trying out a 2x tesseract vault 1x gauss pylon list. Has anyone done this yet? I'd love some input or feedback on how it did. Full list:
Nihilahk super heavy detachment
2x tesseract vault.
1x gauss pylon

Nihilahk out rider
1x cloaktek with enduring will and timesplinter cloak
2x4 scarabs
1x3 scarabs

Deciever.

That's the FULL list? Say something about hardcore counter that gets hard countered by other lists. I think this would be more appropriate for ETC enviroment. But any army with lots of models would have field day. I think my 1.5k ork list from last tournament would basically autowin. You wouldnt' get objectives nor have enough time to kill all 243 models(though seismic assault would be ouch I'll give you that)

My knights would absolutely hate you though

Yeah a true horde list would most likely be a solid counter to this. Though 40 Tesla shots does some good work on hordes. My local meta has very few horde lists though. Lots of IG and a smattering of blood Angel's and DE is what I'm looking at. Last couple events have been won by tripple shadow sword lists as well.

So...GW released a video about the necron codex.




A bit late, isn't it? I mean, the necron codex was released months ago.

So thats how the guys look like who failed at writing a decent codex.

 p5freak wrote:
So thats how the guys look like who failed at writing a decent codex.

*shakes fist*

CRUUUDAAAACE!

Gotta love how they disable the comments on their videos.

Im curious, do they compare their codex work with other balance teams and codicies or do they do it in a vacuum and only know the current state of the game at that certain time (probably a month or up to three before as the books have to be printed)

Is this jump in Necron higher player count and higher wins this week just more lame Vault lists?

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/09/40k-top-list-of-the-week-september-19th-genestealer-cult-soup.html

It seems odd to post those statistics without lists you're right. It wouldn't be surprising if it were just Vaults and then Vaults took a hit this December.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...GW released a video about the necron codex.




A bit late, isn't it? I mean, the necron codex was released months ago.

Maybe they're revitalising the codex in the faq and later the CA?

Nick Nanavati(arguably the best player on earth) played Necrons on stream.

Sautekh Battalion
Zandrekh (WL)
Cryptek- chronometron, staff of light (Veil)
5 Immortals- tesla
5 Immortals- tesla
10 Immortals- tesla
10 Lychguard- hyperphase swords, dispersion shields

Mixed outrider
Destroyer Lord- War Scythe, Res Orb <sautekh> (he bought the artifact orb)
Obyron
9 Scarabs <Nephrek>
6 Destroyers <Sautekh>
6 Wraiths <Nihlakh>

Thoughts after game: wraiths suck, Lychguard were terrible but he'll give them another shot since it was mainly a luck thing. He plans on making another batallion and remove the wraiths. He's happy with his character choices.
The combo is: Cryptek veils himself and Nemesor. Obyron then teleports stuff next him, which HAS NO 9'' LIMITATION! So almost guaranteed charge turn 1 for a unit.

If you wanna watch the video of the stream - Nights at the Game Table facebook page. The opponent was Colin Sherman who runs the, in my opinion, best podcast for competitive 40k - "Best in Faction".

Nick maybe the best 40k player, but he doesnt understand necrons. Wraiths dont suck, lychguard suck. The Zandrekh/obyron/cryptek combo alone is 405 (!) pts. No unit in the entire game of 40k is worth the investment of so many points for a turn 1 charge. Especially not lychguard, for 340 (!) pts. Other factions can do turn 1 charges for a lot less than 100 pts. The Zandrekh/obyron/cryptek/lychguard combo is 745 pts, thats insane. I can get 14 (!) wraiths for 775 pts.

The guy playing vs him also owns necrons. He said in his many many practice games - wraiths just don't do enough. They have too many weaknesses: mortal wounds, invul removals, mass 0 AP shooting or... just bad rolls lol(and no you can't say that for everything in the game. 60 models of the same cost total will average out the dice - wraiths are way more vulnerable to bad dice). They also don't do much damage. The only thing they have is mobility but then you compare them to eldar... :/ If you say "you can't cmopare them to the fastest faction" - why not? If you do something another faction does, except worse - you probably shouldn't be doing that.

 p5freak wrote:
Nick maybe the best 40k player, but he doesnt understand necrons. Wraiths dont suck, lychguard suck. The Zandrekh/obyron/cryptek combo alone is 405 (!) pts. No unit in the entire game of 40k is worth the investment of so many points for a turn 1 charge. Especially not lychguard, for 340 (!) pts. Other factions can do turn 1 charges for a lot less than 100 pts. The Zandrekh/obyron/cryptek/lychguard combo is 745 pts, thats insane. I can get 14 (!) wraiths for 775 pts.

Yeah, this. I saw the list posted on his site before the game and thought it was weak and gimmicky, and lo and behold it turned out to be.

To be fair..... Necrons cannot win in a straight up fight. They are overcosted and GW admits that (hence the comfirmed points drops in CA). So you might as well go for tricks and gimmicks...