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But 8th RP is far better from a fluff perspective.

Honestly these guys are Robots and really shouldn't feel any pain anyway.

sieGermans wrote:
But 8th RP is far better from a fluff perspective.

Yeah, I'm with you there. I feel making it a guaranteed roll when the model loses it's last wound (similar to Kill Team) would go a long way in helping Necrons this edition.

Necronplayer wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
But 8th RP is far better from a fluff perspective.

Yeah, I'm with you there. I feel making it a guaranteed roll when the model loses it's last wound (similar to Kill Team) would go a long way in helping Necrons this edition.

This would make it pretty much impossible to kill an entire unit of 20 warriors, when you would roll for every model right after it loses its last wound. With a cryptek nearby 5 out of 10 slain models would rise again.

 p5freak wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
But 8th RP is far better from a fluff perspective.

Yeah, I'm with you there. I feel making it a guaranteed roll when the model loses it's last wound (similar to Kill Team) would go a long way in helping Necrons this edition.

This would make it pretty much impossible to kill an entire unit of 20 warriors, when you would roll for every model right after it loses its last wound. With a cryptek nearby 5 out of 10 slain models would rise again.

Agreed. I didn't mean to use it exactly as worded under the current ruleset, as that would be quite strong. The whole idea was just to have some throughput of our special trait.

So, I actually wrote up the list I’ve been discussing a while

My immediate realisation is that it was certainly more pricey than I thought.

Opened up a thread here about this list, so rather than duplicate, I’ll just redirect you to that thread.

Thanks in advance

 p5freak wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

sieGermans wrote:
But 8th RP is far better from a fluff perspective.

Yeah, I'm with you there. I feel making it a guaranteed roll when the model loses it's last wound (similar to Kill Team) would go a long way in helping Necrons this edition.

This would make it pretty much impossible to kill an entire unit of 20 warriors, when you would roll for every model right after it loses its last wound. With a cryptek nearby 5 out of 10 slain models would rise again.

You could perhaps make it so that any models that are not recovered this way, are permanently slain, and maybe the unit only gets this Death save once per game (Not RP, just once per game if wiped out). (Could make a CP ability to use it again)

It's a great fluff mechanic, but it's very hard to balance well. It's either too weak, or too strong. Right now we are seeing the effect overestimated by the devs, and the points costs for our units is way to high due to it.

I would love to see a return of ever-living for our characters though. That was a fantastic mechanic, and very fluffy for our characters in the past.


On to the topic of hand, is everyone still pretty down on our new Walker?

 Sasori wrote:

On to the topic of hand, is everyone still pretty down on our new Walker?

I cant talk for everyone, but i am. Really disappointed. A unit with 3+/5++ for 625 pts. is ridiculous. Its offensive power is good, but its defense is weak, even if you play it as nihilakh and use reclaim a lost empire. This thing should have 4++ out of the box. If you dont get first turn this monster could be seriously crippled, or even killed before you get any real use out of it. Right now its not worth more than 500 pts. If we get good point reductions in CA 2018 it maybe become viable for me.

Uh ya know that you can email FW for recommendations on how to fix it instead of endlessly complaining. I'd say you can cut the points to a cool 550 myself. It looks and feels like a glass cannon so I'm not expecting a lot of durability. A Knight WILL almost die if it charges though, so that's nice.

I am ok with it. This is how this massive units should be. Scary as feth in combat but not unkillable in return or else we get more bs Knight like units that make the game seem like only a one player game. If CA brings Lords of war into a more balanced across the board costs we could see it in play which would be sweet because I like the look of them.

I am not ok with the real $ cost though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Uh ya know that you can email FW for recommendations on how to fix it instead of endlessly complaining. I'd say you can cut the points to a cool 550 myself. It looks and feels like a glass cannon so I'm not expecting a lot of durability. A Knight WILL almost die if it charges though, so that's nice.

I already emailed them that they should change the singularity generators damage from D6 to 2D3, or something similar less random, before the model was released. I also posted here that everyone should do so. Did they listen ? No, they dont. Why should i bother emailing them again ? A knight with 4++ (in CC), or 2+, and 6+ FNP will certainly not almost die if it gets charged by this thing.

 p5freak wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

On to the topic of hand, is everyone still pretty down on our new Walker?

I cant talk for everyone, but i am. Really disappointed. A unit with 3+/5++ for 625 pts. is ridiculous. Its offensive power is good, but its defense is weak, even if you play it as nihilakh and use reclaim a lost empire. This thing should have 4++ out of the box. If you dont get first turn this monster could be seriously crippled, or even killed before you get any real use out of it. Right now its not worth more than 500 pts. If we get good point reductions in CA 2018 it maybe become viable for me.

I think it’s great and super well costed, point-wise. At 625 it’s reasonably costed for most play. I plan to buy one.

For competitive it’s waaaay too fairly costed to be dominating—and therefore unplayable.

 p5freak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Uh ya know that you can email FW for recommendations on how to fix it instead of endlessly complaining. I'd say you can cut the points to a cool 550 myself. It looks and feels like a glass cannon so I'm not expecting a lot of durability. A Knight WILL almost die if it charges though, so that's nice.

I already emailed them that they should change the singularity generators damage from D6 to 2D3, or something similar less random, before the model was released. I also posted here that everyone should do so. Did they listen ? No, they dont. Why should i bother emailing them again ? A knight with 4++ (in CC), or 2+, and 6+ FNP will certainly not almost die if it gets charged by this thing.

Knights can have inv in melee? :O

For the rest I would agree...as much as I like this model its too expensive for its defense...plus this „killing a knight in melee“ is only true in a vacuum...therell be tons of guardsmen in front of the knight...good luck trying to place this thing with its „imaginary“ base and not get into arguments

ImPhaeronWeasel wrote:

Knights can have inv in melee? :O

Yes, a knight can have 5++ in melee and ranged combat with the relic sanctuary. With rotate ion shields its +1. And yes, you can use rotate ion shields in CC. Not to mention FW knights which already have 5++ in melee without a relic.

 Sasori wrote:
I would love to see a return of ever-living for our characters though. That was a fantastic mechanic, and very fluffy for our characters in the past.


On to the topic of hand, is everyone still pretty down on our new Walker?

Resurrection Protocols Stratagem?

It seems most people are negative, but there are a few optimists. I won't do any further discussion until I get in more games, which will happen in a week or two.

I won a Maelstrom game with my double Vault list against Deathwatch. So far I've played it as Sautekh, this time I played it as Nihilakh. Nihilakh felt less powerful because sometimes I just had to move my DDAs, my Immortals always had to move and while the Stratagem made one of my Vaults be ignored after losing a third of its wounds, I think my opponent would have ignored it regardless because of the objectives he had to do. The Sautekh WL trait is so much better than Thrall of the Silent King that it isn't even a contest. The lack of access to the Sautekh Staff relic didn't really matter so I think I might stop bringing it in the future. I lost two DDAs and a squad of Immortals. My opponent surrendered at the end of his turn 4 with two Leviathan Dreadnoughts on their last legs, a Terminator Librarian and a Watchmaster, most of which probably would not survive the next turn, I probably would have lost one of my Vaults and tabled him had the game continued but I was really far ahead on objectives as well as board presence so he gave up.

I actually theorybuilt a pair of lists that might work with the walker. Not sure what everyone else thinks of them.

List 1 (Shooty)



List 2 (Choppy)

Soo...

Do we know anything about the upcoming CA and the changes to Necron Rules or Point Costs?

Many of our units are in dire need of Upgrades rules/statwise (looking at you Monolith and Annihilation Barge) or a point cost decrease (Lychguard / Immortals).

 iGuy91 wrote:
I actually theorybuilt a pair of lists that might work with the walker. Not sure what everyone else thinks of them.

List 1 (Shooty)

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) [73 PL, 1373pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cryptek Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Codex 3): Immortal Pride

+ Troops +

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals [8 PL, 170pts]: 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs [6 PL, 91pts]: 7x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [4 PL, 78pts]: 6x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades [10 PL, 215pts]
. Tomb Blade: Shadowloom, Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Gauss Blasters: 2x Gauss Blaster

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment ++

+ Lord of War +

Seraptek Heavy Construct [wo Synaptic Obliterators and Two Transdimensional Projectors

List 2 (Choppy)

Spoiler:

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Necrons) ++

+ HQ +

Cryptek Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Overlord Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Voidblade, Warlord

+ Troops +

Immortals 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Immortals 10x Immortal, Tesla Carbine

Necron Warriors 10x Necron Warrior

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs 6x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Wraiths 6x Canoptek Wraith

Canoptek Wraiths 6x Canoptek Wraith

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Necrons) ++

+ Lord of War +

Seraptek Heavy Construct [32 PL, 625pts]: Two Synaptic Obliterators and Two Transdimensional Projectors

I don't plan to run the construct, but if I did, I would bring the stalker as well. As bad as the stalker is, RR 1s seems like it would be a must for a 625 point unit that hits on 3s

@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

 p5freak wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Uh ya know that you can email FW for recommendations on how to fix it instead of endlessly complaining. I'd say you can cut the points to a cool 550 myself. It looks and feels like a glass cannon so I'm not expecting a lot of durability. A Knight WILL almost die if it charges though, so that's nice.

I already emailed them that they should change the singularity generators damage from D6 to 2D3, or something similar less random, before the model was released. I also posted here that everyone should do so. Did they listen ? No, they dont. Why should i bother emailing them again ? A knight with 4++ (in CC), or 2+, and 6+ FNP will certainly not almost die if it gets charged by this thing.

You told them to change the model before it was even released and they didn't listen to you, seeing as nobody else for the most part would've emailed them compared to when the model is out and people can actually have played it? Color me shocked as all hell.

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Yeah, one email isn't going to do it. You need to have a lot more people on board before they'll listen.
Its why I'm telling people to get on FB to complain about the missing Big Mek. If enough people civilly tells them their wrong, they might do something about it.

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Hrm. I've actually yet to use that dynasty/strategem ...but it might not be a bad idea...just gotta land a wound on something first, then finish it off with the big guns of the construct.

Hrmmmm....

 iGuy91 wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Hrm. I've actually yet to use that dynasty/strategem ...but it might not be a bad idea...just gotta land a wound on something first, then finish it off with the big guns of the construct.

Hrmmmm....

Yeah, I would consider that dynasty or the Nihilakh for RR 1s when standing still and the +1 to save stratagem. It's a shame it's only when standing still, because you have to waste that awesome melee profile to get those perks.

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Pretty useless if your giant spyder is destroyed in the first turn. You cant protect it with prepared positions and you cant use reclaim a lost empire, because its sautekh, and its played at the end of your turn.

Necronplayer wrote:

Yeah, I would consider that dynasty or the Nihilakh for RR 1s when standing still and the +1 to save stratagem. It's a shame it's only when standing still, because you have to waste that awesome melee profile to get those perks.

Reclaim a lost empire is not only when standing still.

 p5freak wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Pretty useless if your giant spyder is destroyed in the first turn. You cant protect it with prepared positions and you cant use reclaim a lost empire, because its sautekh, and its played at the end of your turn.

Necronplayer wrote:

Yeah, I would consider that dynasty or the Nihilakh for RR 1s when standing still and the +1 to save stratagem. It's a shame it's only when standing still, because you have to waste that awesome melee profile to get those perks.

Reclaim a lost empire is not only when standing still.

Anything is pretty useless if destroyed in the first turn... I'm not saying the unit is good, I'm giving suggestions.

Our +1 to save isn't as clutch or easy to use as rotate ion shields. End of turn AND standing still or be near an objective. Unless you can reliably get first turn and be near an objective, I wouldn't say it's the go to dynasty.

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Hrm. I've actually yet to use that dynasty/strategem ...but it might not be a bad idea...just gotta land a wound on something first, then finish it off with the big guns of the construct.

Hrmmmm....

Yeah, I would consider that dynasty or the Nihilakh for RR 1s when standing still and the +1 to save stratagem. It's a shame it's only when standing still, because you have to waste that awesome melee profile to get those perks.

Yeah, if you're smart about objective placement you can just drop the Construct near an objective and move to it.

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Seems like I would want to try:
Stormlord + 3×3 Heavy Destroyers
Sautekh or Novokh or Nihilakh Sereptek
Battalion of Nephrekh Immortals and Wraiths

Just throwing out ideas of course. I like my Sautekh Spearhead. Just 1CP and you get THREE MWBD Heavy Destroyers. Shame Knights exist and all that.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Seems like I would want to try:
Stormlord + 3×3 Heavy Destroyers
Sautekh or Novokh or Nihilakh Sereptek
Battalion of Nephrekh Immortals and Wraiths

Just throwing out ideas of course. I like my Sautekh Spearhead. Just 1CP and you get THREE MWBD Heavy Destroyers. Shame Knights exist and all that.

Novokh Sereptek would be pretty nasty with the Blood Rites fight again strategem.

EDIT: Could put it next to a Crimson Haze warlord. 18 attacks with the D3 dmg profile, 6s proc an additional hit roll using the same weapon (could switch to the flat 6 dmg profile for these additional hit rolls)

Necronplayer wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Necronplayer wrote:

 iGuy91 wrote:
@NecronPlayer

I get the sentiment certainly, but I really can't justify the points price tag on the thing. That, and whenever i bring it, its got a giant target painted on it for some reason.

Hmm, have you thought about Sautekh dynasty for Methodical Destruction?

Seems like I would want to try:
Stormlord + 3×3 Heavy Destroyers
Sautekh or Novokh or Nihilakh Sereptek
Battalion of Nephrekh Immortals and Wraiths

Just throwing out ideas of course. I like my Sautekh Spearhead. Just 1CP and you get THREE MWBD Heavy Destroyers. Shame Knights exist and all that.

Novokh Sereptek would be pretty nasty with the Blood Rites fight again strategem.

EDIT: Could put it next to a Crimson Haze warlord. 18 attacks with the D3 dmg profile, 6s proc an additional hit roll using the same weapon (could switch to the flat 6 dmg profile for these additional hit rolls)

You could also do Nephrekh as your trait if you wanted to run it with Kutlakh and treated his Dynasty as that trait. You'd get the auto 6" advance and he would let you charge afterwards. That requires a lot of building around though, and with his current price tag it isn't terribly worth it. Fun idea otherwise I guess.