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My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

moonsmite wrote:
My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

Not really no. I'm not sure how people get it in their head that a unit can't be good just because of its rules. The only thing that makes or breaks a unit is its cost. Literally, everything else is meaningless without that in context. A unit is good because what it does is worth its cost. You could literally have them sit on an objective if they were 5 pts per model and they'd be doing their pts worth. They're a lot like Genestealers offensively, without the Obsec and CP from being Troops but with Fly. They are quite a lot more survivable though so I'd say they're worth 15 pts on the worst of days. At 25 they are already pretty good and around 22 they are competitive.

 vict0988 wrote:

moonsmite wrote:
My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

Not really no. I'm not sure how people get it in their head that a unit can't be good just because of its rules. The only thing that makes or breaks a unit is its cost. Literally, everything else is meaningless without that in context. A unit is good because what it does is worth its cost. You could literally have them sit on an objective if they were 5 pts per model and they'd be doing their pts worth. They're a lot like Genestealers offensively, without the Obsec and CP from being Troops but with Fly. They are quite a lot more survivable though so I'd say they're worth 15 pts on the worst of days. At 25 they are already pretty good and around 22 they are competitive.

They already cost 22 points. They aren't that good when compared to wraiths due to (invuln save, 3 wounds, higher str, fall back and charge, 2 damage attacks)

Yes, but they dont ake up the hotly-contested FA slot

if they became cheapr, I'd actively run my two units up the flank with my wraiths, so that way the important units can't be focused down

^^^ This is true, but thats why 90% of my lists are battalion + outrider, helps with that. But they'd be better at 20 points a model...100 points for 5. 200 for 10. I'd consider them again at that point.

That being said, seems like they are buffing the bejesus out of GK, so I'm hoping we'll follow suit.

moonsmite wrote:
My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

This perspective blinds you to any balanced outcome bringing you joy.

It is entirely relevant if they get a points decrease, on the assumption this decrease is sufficient to make them more playable.

To provide an exaggerated example, if they cost the same as an Immortal, you’d play them in a heartbeat.

I did say that Praetorians were one of the units that I expected to see some points changes. However, I also predicted no changes to our HQs. Monolith coming down to 350 points etc, so we'll see. But so far, my information has been completely accurate, and I hope it isn't.

sieGermans wrote:

moonsmite wrote:
My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

This perspective blinds you to any balanced outcome bringing you joy.

It is entirely relevant if they get a points decrease, on the assumption this decrease is sufficient to make them more playable.

To provide an exaggerated example, if they cost the same as an Immortal, you’d play them in a heartbeat.

Honestly with 10" movement and 12" weapons. I honestly would still debate. as if keeping back line then scarabs would be a cheaper option for holding objective as no point paying points for something which which wont get used. and running up with wraiths, they would get shot first as its an easier kill than the wraiths for the plasma or mass amount of 2/3 damage around these days.

Then you also think that if you go first they cant hit anything unless they advance (with a standard 24" gap) and cant be buffed as easy as no dynasty. So at the same points as an immortal, can see myself paying for more immortals.

moonsmite wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

moonsmite wrote:
My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

This perspective blinds you to any balanced outcome bringing you joy.

It is entirely relevant if they get a points decrease, on the assumption this decrease is sufficient to make them more playable.

To provide an exaggerated example, if they cost the same as an Immortal, you’d play them in a heartbeat.

Honestly with 10" movement and 12" weapons. I honestly would still debate. as if keeping back line then scarabs would be a cheaper option for holding objective as no point paying points for something which which wont get used. and running up with wraiths, they would get shot first as its an easier kill than the wraiths for the plasma or mass amount of 2/3 damage around these days.

Then you also think that if you go first they cant hit anything unless they advance (with a standard 24" gap) and cant be buffed as easy as no dynasty. So at the same points as an immortal, can see myself paying for more immortals.

Honestly, I'd probably also go with Immortals aswell. Better damage output due to their ranged weapons, plus better Synergy and troops providing for better CPs. It's weird, but yeah, I'd still choose Immortals.

moonsmite wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

moonsmite wrote:
My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

This perspective blinds you to any balanced outcome bringing you joy.

It is entirely relevant if they get a points decrease, on the assumption this decrease is sufficient to make them more playable.

To provide an exaggerated example, if they cost the same as an Immortal, you’d play them in a heartbeat.

Honestly with 10" movement and 12" weapons. I honestly would still debate. as if keeping back line then scarabs would be a cheaper option for holding objective as no point paying points for something which which wont get used. and running up with wraiths, they would get shot first as its an easier kill than the wraiths for the plasma or mass amount of 2/3 damage around these days.

Then you also think that if you go first they cant hit anything unless they advance (with a standard 24" gap) and cant be buffed as easy as no dynasty. So at the same points as an immortal, can see myself paying for more immortals.

Without going too far down the hypothetical rabbit hole, I hope you can consider how ridiculous it sounds to discount so quickly a 10” moving, 5T 2W model that has a 12” S5 AP-3 shot and 2A same profile CC... for the same cost as a TAC Marine? Like, that would be incredibly OP.

You probably need to reset your expectations or I guarantee you’ll never be happy with anything that gets release for Necrons ever.

I personally think everything in the codex should have a +1 to their save characteristic from where it's currently at. Armour on low toughness models is massively overrated in 8th, and the little bit of extra resilience would make rp a little less inconsistent.

It also never made sense to me that necrons who are literally suits of armour walking around, made from an almost indestructible material, have like no models with 2+ saves.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

moonsmite wrote:
My problem with Praetorians is that even with a points decrease they are just overcharged plasma gun targets with no real purpose.

even though i love the model, they need more than just a points decrease

Not really no. I'm not sure how people get it in their head that a unit can't be good just because of its rules. The only thing that makes or breaks a unit is its cost. Literally, everything else is meaningless without that in context. A unit is good because what it does is worth its cost. You could literally have them sit on an objective if they were 5 pts per model and they'd be doing their pts worth. They're a lot like Genestealers offensively, without the Obsec and CP from being Troops but with Fly. They are quite a lot more survivable though so I'd say they're worth 15 pts on the worst of days. At 25 they are already pretty good and around 22 they are competitive.

They already cost 22 points. They aren't that good when compared to wraiths due to (invuln save, 3 wounds, higher str, fall back and charge, 2 damage attacks)

LOL after wargear obviously. I'm not sure with your follow-up comment about 5 for 100 if you're actually paying 22 currently. I like them a lot but I just haven't been taking them since the Fly nerf, huge bummer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I personally think everything in the codex should have a +1 to their save characteristic from where it's currently at. Armour on low toughness models is massively overrated in 8th, and the little bit of extra resilience would make rp a little less inconsistent.

It also never made sense to me that necrons who are literally suits of armour walking around, made from an almost indestructible material, have like no models with 2+ saves.

That's not a little bit of resilience, it might work if they also got -1 T though.

It takes a fair amount of plasma to kill praetorians, especially since they are immune to morale. With hits wounds and saves included (2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 =) it ends up being about .74 damage per shot on average, which means it would take around 27 OC plasma shots to drop a unit of ten without them getting a chance to reanimate. It's doable for armies that bring a lot of plasma (like dark angels), and happen to be in rapid fire range, but it's no walk in the park. DA are kind of an outlier on that though, most armies don't bring that much plasma, because plasmas best targets (heavy infantry) are not common in the current meta because MEQ and TEQ kind of suck right now.

I think praetorians could have a place in lists if the price was right, but even if they are priced right, their best against MEQ and TEQ, which are pretty rare in the current meta. Who knows though, maybe with the points reductions for marines and terminators will give them a new lease on life.

I'd be much more interested in points reductions for lychguard, who with the improved tomb world deploy, can now drop from a night scythe, move and then assault vehicles with weapons that are pretty decent at opening up heavy vehicles.That would depend on lychguard being cheaper and night scythes being cheaper for it to be points effective.

 Grimgold wrote:
It takes a fair amount of plasma to kill praetorians, especially since they are immune to morale. With hits wounds and saves included (2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 =) it ends up being about .74 damage per shot on average, which means it would take around 27 OC plasma shots to drop a unit of ten without them getting a chance to reanimate. It's doable for armies that bring a lot of plasma (like dark angels), and happen to be in rapid fire range, but it's no walk in the park. DA are kind of an outlier on that though, most armies don't bring that much plasma, because plasmas best targets (heavy infantry) are not common in the current meta because MEQ and TEQ kind of suck right now.

I think praetorians could have a place in lists if the price was right, but even if they are priced right, their best against MEQ and TEQ, which are pretty rare in the current meta. Who knows though, maybe with the points reductions for marines and terminators will give them a new lease on life.

I'd be much more interested in points reductions for lychguard, who with the improved tomb world deploy, can now drop from a night scythe, move and then assault vehicles with weapons that are pretty decent at opening up heavy vehicles.That would depend on lychguard being cheaper and night scythes being cheaper for it to be points effective.

Praetorians also have (almost) no synergy with anything in the army. There is few ways to buffs them, their weapons are no very good and as you said the 'preferential' targets (MEQ, even versus TEQ they are not that good) are not favored by the meta.

I wish GW changed something on their datasheet, small buff to give them a role in the army and change both loadout to make them more specialized. Like a damage 2 on both melee and shooting option of the Rod of covenant for example.
I'd like that their stratagem (which is a weaker MWBD) would work *both* for shooting and melee phase.

As they stands, even with point reduction, i find difficult to justify them when you have something like Wraiths or Destroyers.

What if Triarch units gave some sort of morale buff, to represent their role as being enforcers of the Triarch's will? Something like "Necron units within 6" only fail moral tests on a roll of a 6. If they fail, they lose D3 models."

Maybe a 6" re-roll Morale bubble?

 Grimgold wrote:
It takes a fair amount of plasma to kill praetorians, especially since they are immune to morale. With hits wounds and saves included (2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 =) it ends up being about .74 damage per shot on average, which means it would take around 27 OC plasma shots to drop a unit of ten without them getting a chance to reanimate.

Most plasma weapons have two profiles one that does one damage at S7 AP-3/4 and one that does 2 damage at S8 AP-4, I think it's most reasonable to assume people are going to overcharge since people usually build their lists around minimizing the downside of overcharging plasma by re-rolling Hit rolls of 1. So the actual number of shots is 10*3/2*36/28=19 shots. That's a single round of shooting from a 10 man squad of Hellblasters at Rapid-Fire range. 10 Hellblasters cost 33 pts have -1 T and no Reanimation Protocols. They have a threat range of 36" and don't have to put themselves in nearly as much danger as a unit of Praetorians do to get damage done. Praetorians with some good terrain and good manouvering might outvalue Hellblasters on a busy 500 pt 4/4 board, but on a 2k pt 6/4 the Praetorians can't keep up. They don't have the support abilities Hellblasters do and Reanimation Protocols is far less strong.

Praetorians need some kind of really strong mobility Stratagem that allows them to quickly get where they need to be if they were to be fair in both small and large games. A Deep-Strike esque redployment instead of the pitiful +1 to hit in one phase could make them much better and wouldn't break smaller games I don't think. Alternatively the LD buff suggested would be another great way to make them better in bigger games, although at 32 pts I don't think it'd unreasonable to make everyone within 6" immune to Morale.

Yeah, Praetorians don't really have any place in a Necron list anyways. We already have Wraiths for a fast melee-focused unit and they don't have to worry about enemy Plasma or Dis Cannons mowing through their armour. In reality, Praetorians have the same damage output as an Immortal (S5 -3 AP with Mephrit if you want) but only in short range. I'd just keep away, and stick to Wraiths.

Agreed. I have trouble finding a way to justify them and Lychguard. Which sucks, because they are easily some of the best looking models in my army. And I want to run them.

 iGuy91 wrote:
Agreed. I have trouble finding a way to justify them and Lychguard. Which sucks, because they are easily some of the best looking models in my army. And I want to run them.

ScytheGuard supported do INSANE amount of dmg (Anrakyr for +1 attack, MWBD, +1Str strat). The hard thing is to bring them up the board.

Praetorians however...I dunno...As cool as they look, I dont think they fit in the Necron army at all (other than Fluff reasons)

 vict0988 wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
It takes a fair amount of plasma to kill praetorians, especially since they are immune to morale. With hits wounds and saves included (2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 =) it ends up being about .74 damage per shot on average, which means it would take around 27 OC plasma shots to drop a unit of ten without them getting a chance to reanimate.

Most plasma weapons have two profiles one that does one damage at S7 AP-3/4 and one that does 2 damage at S8 AP-4, I think it's most reasonable to assume people are going to overcharge since people usually build their lists around minimizing the downside of overcharging plasma by re-rolling Hit rolls of 1. So the actual number of shots is 10*3/2*36/28=19 shots. That's a single round of shooting from a 10 man squad of Hellblasters at Rapid-Fire range. 10 Hellblasters cost 33 pts have -1 T and no Reanimation Protocols. They have a threat range of 36" and don't have to put themselves in nearly as much danger as a unit of Praetorians do to get damage done. Praetorians with some good terrain and good manouvering might outvalue Hellblasters on a busy 500 pt 4/4 board, but on a 2k pt 6/4 the Praetorians can't keep up. They don't have the support abilities Hellblasters do and Reanimation Protocols is far less strong.

Praetorians need some kind of really strong mobility Stratagem that allows them to quickly get where they need to be if they were to be fair in both small and large games. A Deep-Strike esque redployment instead of the pitiful +1 to hit in one phase could make them much better and wouldn't break smaller games I don't think. Alternatively the LD buff suggested would be another great way to make them better in bigger games, although at 32 pts I don't think it'd unreasonable to make everyone within 6" immune to Morale.

Honestly DA hellblasters could just use WFTDA, and not overcharge at all, and get the exact same outcome, But DA are the best plasma users in the game. However the vast majority of plasma is ap -3, which will still work out as shown since str 8 still only wounds on 3s. Adding rerolls auras and such when doing a quick mathhammer is just inviting trouble, because as you start adding external factors, then you have to consider them all, maybe the target is in cover, maybe they have a -1 to hit, maybe they have an LT, maybe they have void shields up, etc. Looking only at the base hits/wounds/saves prevents cherry picking factors for the purpose of supporting your argument.

 Grimgold wrote:
Honestly DA hellblasters could just use WFTDA, and not overcharge at all, and get the exact same outcome, But DA are the best plasma users in the game. However the vast majority of plasma is ap -3, which will still work out as shown since str 8 still only wounds on 3s. Adding rerolls auras and such when doing a quick mathhammer is just inviting trouble, because as you start adding external factors, then you have to consider them all, maybe the target is in cover, maybe they have a -1 to hit, maybe they have an LT, maybe they have void shields up, etc. Looking only at the base hits/wounds/saves prevents cherry picking factors for the purpose of supporting your argument.

You can't ignore that one unit benefits from a dozen different buffs and works as part of a tier 2 list while the other only works on its own and not that well at that. It's perfectly fine to argue that a unit doesn't work as part of a list, a gunline with two units of Hellblasters works, an army with two units of Triarch Praetorians hopping about trying to be useful doesn't work. Why is that? It's becaue Triarch Praetorians don't help add up to a greater whole, they don't benefit from any buffs, don't get any great Stratagems and aren't cheap enough to simply be worth taking without being part of something greater. You could make a maze with 2" wide corridors bending every 5" and 5" tall. Triarch Praetorians would be great, but its contrived, it's not a realistic scenario. A Captain is realistic in a scenario where you are bringing Hellblasters, you cannot have HS choices without HQs. An army with a Cryptek or a Lord is realistic, but Triarch Praetorians don't benefit from any buffs, it's perfectly reasonable to say as part of a 2k list you have a Cryptek and a Lord while your opponent has a Captain and a Lieutenant.


I lost a 2k game against DE with 3 Ravagers and a bunch of Coven stuff with my Sautekh balance list. DDAs were really bad.


I won a 2k game against DE with a crap-ton of Coven stuff and a patrol with a Farseer and a Warlock. My opponent just slowly got ground away and never really got to me because his army was all melee. Despite getting most objectives in the early turns he failed to get his secondaries and I won.


I won a 1k Eternal War-style game against a CSM newb with an Alpha Legion list with my Novokh Immortal spam/double Tomb Stalker list. Tomb Stalkers weren't horrible, but Immortals did basically all the work. My opponent played really badly, he placed his Berzerkers in a Rhino in the back of his Deployment Zone and his Havocs in front, not really a lot to learn (for me).


I lost a 2k ITC game with my Anrakyr Szeras Balanced list against SW/AM. I played really badly because I didn't correctly judge whether my unit could see before I started my turn ended up wasting MWBD and not shooting my Immortals T1, forgot to use Szeras ability at the end of my first Movement phase, forgot to stay more than 1" away from a guy with the Armour of Russ before making my attacks and was just a tad unlucky as well. My 10 Triarch Praetorians managed to do 2 unsaved wounds to a unit of Thunderwolves and 3 unsaved wounds to a Psyker before getting chopped up. I'm not sure why I still can't remember to use Szeras after at least 10 games with this list. I was a gak sportsman this game, my opponent just wanted a casual game and I didn't let him go back just because I wouldn't let myself go back even though he would have let me, I'll endevour to be a better sportsman and player in the future.

They should make praetorians 2+/2+

They're supposed to be the best, the triarchs ultimate force with which they hold necron dynasties in line yet they sport the same ws/bs as a regular warrior. That would go some way to make them worth their cost, seeing as they can't receive various regular infantry buffs which is what makes other infantry strong

 vict0988 wrote:

You can't ignore that one unit benefits from a dozen different buffs and works as part of a tier 2 list while the other only works on its own and not that well at that. It's perfectly fine to argue that a unit doesn't work as part of a list, a gunline with two units of Hellblasters works, an army with two units of Triarch Praetorians hopping about trying to be useful doesn't work. Why is that? It's becaue Triarch Praetorians don't help add up to a greater whole, they don't benefit from any buffs, don't get any great Stratagems and aren't cheap enough to simply be worth taking without being part of something greater. You could make a maze with 2" wide corridors bending every 5" and 5" tall. Triarch Praetorians would be great, but its contrived, it's not a realistic scenario. A Captain is realistic in a scenario where you are bringing Hellblasters, you cannot have HS choices without HQs. An army with a Cryptek or a Lord is realistic, but Triarch Praetorians don't benefit from any buffs, it's perfectly reasonable to say as part of a 2k list you have a Cryptek and a Lord while your opponent has a Captain and a Lieutenant.

If praetorians are within rapid fire range of hellblasters, while out in the open, while the SM player has 300+ points of supporting characters, of course they are going to get plastered, but how is that useful. You refuse to count things that might help the praetorians out, like the abundance of LoS blocking terrain in ITC, that is very easily accessible to an infantry squad with the fly keyword and an 10" movement. Or that for praetorians to be in rapid fire range at all probably means they failed a charge, or that the praetorians didn't have a screen of scarabs to tie units they are about to charge. Your making a ton of assumptions, and cherry picking the ones that support your argument. The correct way to math hammer is to make as few assumptions as possible, it's called isolating the variables. Otherwise to do any mathhammer at all you need to take into account board placement, stratagems, both complete lists, scenery, ad nauseum.

The thing with Wraiths, everyone uses at least a squad including me and that's great because they look awesome on the table. But they are so expensive. 10 points over costed, in my opinion. Especially as Wraithflight inexplicably got nerfed.

They're still hard to kill but the buffs to their attacks was cancelled out by the huge point hike they took and they feel just as average as in the index. I don't expect them to go down in points in CA either so if Praetorians receive a sizable decrease, maybe, just maybe they'll be the better option.

Hello fellow Necron players, my tomb has awoken and I'm back to play some necrony goodness in 7th edition. (Haven't played this game in 2 years)

Just wanted to reintroduce myself and ask for some rules that I'm missing like the "fly nerf" everyone is talking about (I know there's probably better threads for that, but hey look at my username.)

Also, can't wait for the CA. I'm seeeriously hoping for some changes, at least point reduction, on the Monolith. I really think seeing lists with 2-3 monoliths is absolutely stunning and I'd love to play mine myself.

Necron warriors points serious point reduction would overall up our codex value overall as well, I think.

 necr0n wrote:
Hello fellow Necron players, my tomb has awoken and I'm back to play some necrony goodness in 7th edition. (Haven't played this game in 2 years)
Just wanted to reintroduce myself and ask for some rules that I'm missing like the "fly nerf" everyone is talking about (I know there's probably better threads for that, but hey look at my username.)
Also, can't wait for the CA. I'm seeeriously hoping for some changes, at least point reduction, on the Monolith. I really think seeing lists with 2-3 monoliths is absolutely stunning and I'd love to play mine myself.
Necron warriors points serious point reduction would overall up our codex value overall as well, I think.

Welcome back!

Long story short right now, the army is in a rough way competitively.
Currently, page 1 of this thread has a solid breakdown of our units and how they rank internally at least.
CA may very well shake some things out, we'll see, if land raiders are getting 40 points cheaper, I'm hoping we'll see similar outcomes for the monolith.

The fly nerf...specifically has to do with now having to count vertical distance when charging, So if you are charging from 9 inches up a building, and the target is 1 inch away from the bottom of the building, its a 10 inch charge, not a 1 inch charge. Makes deep strike assaults harder, but hardly effects us TBH, as most of our melee units lack a reliable means of delivery.



In other news, should we update the front page with a grade for the Seraptek Heavy Construct? I'd give it a B myself, I think its good. Balanced, expensive, but good.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 necr0n wrote:
Hello fellow Necron players, my tomb has awoken and I'm back to play some necrony goodness in 7th edition. (Haven't played this game in 2 years)
Just wanted to reintroduce myself and ask for some rules that I'm missing like the "fly nerf" everyone is talking about (I know there's probably better threads for that, but hey look at my username.)
Also, can't wait for the CA. I'm seeeriously hoping for some changes, at least point reduction, on the Monolith. I really think seeing lists with 2-3 monoliths is absolutely stunning and I'd love to play mine myself.
Necron warriors points serious point reduction would overall up our codex value overall as well, I think.

Welcome back!

Long story short right now, the army is in a rough way competitively.
Currently, page 1 of this thread has a solid breakdown of our units and how they rank internally at least.
CA may very well shake some things out, we'll see, if land raiders are getting 40 points cheaper, I'm hoping we'll see similar outcomes for the monolith.

The fly nerf...specifically has to do with now having to count vertical distance when charging, So if you are charging from 9 inches up a building, and the target is 1 inch away from the bottom of the building, its a 10 inch charge, not a 1 inch charge. Makes deep strike assaults harder, but hardly effects us TBH, as most of our melee units lack a reliable means of delivery.



In other news, should we update the front page with a grade for the Seraptek Heavy Construct? I'd give it a B myself, I think its good. Balanced, expensive, but good.

The Fly nerf also has to do with Charging over chaff units and using Pile In moves to move over chaff moves, that's the main reason it hurts Wraiths and Praetorians, another thing is you can't charge Wraiths through a Ruin now and you can't charge Praetorians or Wraiths over/through a piece of impassable terrain.

Unit Tiers:
Made based on my opinions from having played with all these units at least once. I'd stay far away from Shieldguard and RodPraets and I'm not going to proxy the FW units that aren't great or interesting.

I think OP was a little too nice, knowing what we know about how Necron tournament lists turned out I think it's fair to say that many units need to be taken down a notch, we don't really need an A+ score, Immortals aren't that great, they're okay, we can call them a B. You can also knock all of these down a notch if you're considering running them in a totally useless Dynasty like Novokh Monoliths. I know one guy did well at a tournament with Scytheguard but I have been unable to provide good results even while bringing them to casual games, I'm not seing it. Finally getting to play a Knight via the Construct has been very interesting, it's stupidly good against some lists and rarely trash. It's just hard to deal with double-tapping Stratagems and Doom/Haywire spam.

I don't know why I clicked the link this morning after I read that Necrons/Tau weren't to be featured in the Vigilus Defiant book. Perhaps hoping for a generic detachment rule.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/12/05/5th-dec-xenos-specialist-detachments-rules-previewgw-homepage-post-4/

What do we reckon we'll get then?

A Canoptek one again? Maybe something to buff our elites?