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 iGuy91 wrote:


3x10 with an Overlord, lord, and Immotehk is a stupid amount of firepower, considering those 10 man squads will hit on 2s, and reroll 1s to wound. Nasty. Fill out the rest with Destroyers and Doomsdays

I edited your post. I don't think much has been lost.

TBH the only semi-reliable elite we have is the Triarch Stalker now that its priced more appropriately, and Ctan shards which are too expensive to spam.

Another point I would make is that your 1st battalion gives 8 CP and 3 troops + 2 HQs that will all contribute meaningfully to your list.

The second battalion gives only 5 CP and is made up of 3 troops and 2 HQs that you probably didn't want.

Serious diminishing returns.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits.

This has got me thinking about that conundrum we had ages back:
What's the most efficient use of points?
• Immortals + things to make them better
• Or equal points of just straight up Immortals

Yes, 10 Tesla Immortals with MWBD are pretty good,
but are they better than 16 non MWBD Tesla Immortals?
(and yes, I'm aware the Overlord would probably taken no matter what because of HQ requirements, I'm just wondering what the efficiency difference would be regardless)

I think the 2 compulsory HQs prevent us needing to do the maths. If I'm not taking special characters my preferred HQ + Troop selection will probably be

3x Overlord
3x 10 Immortals

It unlocks a Battalion + another 1 CP detachment, and gives you 3 units of immortals that can always have MWBD and don't need to stick together.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I think the 2 compulsory HQs prevent us needing to do the maths. If I'm not taking special characters my preferred HQ + Troop selection will probably be

3x Overlord
3x 10 Immortals

It unlocks a Battalion + another 1 CP detachment, and gives you 3 units of immortals that can always have MWBD and don't need to stick together.

Agreed. I think 2 OL plus 3x10 Immortals is currently our best battalion. 3x5 can work for niche lists dumping points into super heavies or destroyers, but 3x10 feels right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though, i'd throw a lord in there as well, rerolling 1s to wound is clutch

This would be my double battalion list. Still old points, its 1991 points after CA is out. Cryptek tries to fix damaged DDAs, stalker provides re-roll 1s to hit, imotekh double buffs immortals, destroyers deepstrike, second cryptek can veil around the battlefield with another immortal unit. Scarabs hold objectives.

With Necrons i often see when opponent tag your foot units with flying transports (eldar) or similar. And they're done (except 1 veil).

The only solution is sitting in cover in position they can not reach you but it's often when you can not reach them too.

About CP. More CP vs better units choice is tough. I think i'll go with spearhead + outrider. It gives me 5CP and i can take 3xDDA, 3xAnni Barge, Destroyers, 2-3x6 Tomb Blades, 2xStalkers so on.

Necron troops are overcosted and i found them not very strong - they can be tagged or out of range.

Of course more CP we have more rerolls we use. But 5CP can be done without troop tax and will be okay for basic needs (destroyers, -1 QS, -cover)

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I think the 2 compulsory HQs prevent us needing to do the maths. If I'm not taking special characters my preferred HQ + Troop selection will probably be

3x Overlord
3x 10 Immortals

It unlocks a Battalion + another 1 CP detachment, and gives you 3 units of immortals that can always have MWBD and don't need to stick together.

The isolated math is simple, add 50%, so 5 immortals.

Though concentration of power has something going for it and as said, you're bringing the OL anyway

Necronplayer wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
I find his Storm to be extremely valuable. I run into a lot of eldar that love their Dark Reapers that punch holes in my Necrons from afar and with fire and fade I can never seem to touch them.

His Strom ability does not need line of sight and with a re roll thrown in you are sure to cut a few down dropping their fire power greatly. This also makes it safer to use a Vail becuase that the Forewarned strat is mostly pulled on D Reapers.

Yeah, I'm finding room for him in my lists now. Most lists I make will likely have a battalion like:

Spoiler:

HQ:
Imotekh (160)
Lord (68)

Troop:
Tesla Immortals (150)
Tesla Immortals (150)
Tesla Immortals (150)

Total: 678 points

MWBD 2-3 immortals, storm a target, and pop Methodical Destruction is so much firepower from troops.

With the price cut to Heavy Destroyers, I'm thinking you can fit 3×3 of those while the Immortals advance forward.

Think about how awesome using his two MWBD, and use the Strategem to use it another time, and now you got 3 squads of beefed up Heavy Destroyers. It was merely fun before Chapter Approved, but I'm considering it an actual option now.

 skoffs wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits.

This has got me thinking about that conundrum we had ages back:
What's the most efficient use of points?
• Immortals + things to make them better
• Or equal points of just straight up Immortals

Yes, 10 Tesla Immortals with MWBD are pretty good,
but are they better than 16 non MWBD Tesla Immortals?
(and yes, I'm aware the Overlord would probably taken no matter what because of HQ requirements, I'm just wondering what the efficiency difference would be regardless)

They're pretty even. MWBD increases base tesla output by 50%. However the real benefit of it is counteracting -1 to hit, which halves tesla damage output.

 skoffs wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
5 man Immortal squads are ok sure, but you wouldn't even think of taking them for their own sake. 10x Tesla with an Overlord to MWBD is a unit that gets stuff done, and I can see a couple of them earning a place in a list on their own merits.

This has got me thinking about that conundrum we had ages back:
What's the most efficient use of points?
• Immortals + things to make them better
• Or equal points of just straight up Immortals

Yes, 10 Tesla Immortals with MWBD are pretty good,
but are they better than 16 non MWBD Tesla Immortals?
(and yes, I'm aware the Overlord would probably taken no matter what because of HQ requirements, I'm just wondering what the efficiency difference would be regardless)

I view it more of how do I best use the units I'm required to take, which is HQ and Troops. You have to take both, take them in the quantities that make them work best together.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

I view it more of how do I best use the units I'm required to take, which is HQ and Troops. You have to take both, take them in the quantities that make them work best together.

This is one reason why Knights mixed with Guard are so frustrating to me. Their "best working quantities" are tiny in comparison to everyone else, so they can stack up CP like crazy. I'm extremely surprised that CP hasn't been changed to only be spendable on the faction keyword that generated it.

It's also something I hate about our HQs. Without psykers, we're kinda boring. We have some ok options, but there's nothing beyond very linear buffs. Imotekh is the closest we have to an interesting HQ option.

Imagine a world where C'Tan had optional but more expensive HQ profiles. Or where an Overlord can carry a fragment of a shard and gain a C'Tan power, with some kind of risk attached. It'd be incredible, but it'll never happen.

So I'm trying to include Zahndrekh/Orikan/Imotekh/Obyron in my lists, but the thing is I'm kind of disappointed with Sautekh dynasty. How do you guys use the dynasty trait?

Which units benefit the most? I can only see Destroyers being decent with Advance + shoot.

Beyond that, which are some spicy combination for Dynasty Traits + units that have been successful for you? I'm trying to figure out how to run my Doomsday Arks, destroyers, wraiths, lychguard, Monolith and even immortals..

MrPieChee wrote:
I've got ten praetorian/lychguard still on sprues - how do the current configurations match up?

I was planning on building rod praets simple because the staff looks better, and having some fast infantry is a nice luxury in a necron force. However I think scytheguard look the coolest, but being so slow I'm not sure it's worth it. Not sure about sword and board or pistol and blade.

Spoiler:

My army currently looks like:
6 overlords (I think I'll convert to 2 Lord's and 2 crypteks, probably with the left overs from the above sprues)
48 warriors
10 Gauss immortals
1 monolith
2 stalkers (magnetised)
2 barges
12 scarabs
2 destroyers

I saw a good conversion of warriors to flayed ones recently - if they weren't so terrible I would get another box of warriors and make 20 FO...
Has anyone tried fixing a stalker heavy Gauss cannon to a destroyer? Heavy destroyers look terrible!

Not planning on getting anything else any time soon... Unless I magically paint lots of plastic....

With the huge points drop that Shield Lychguard have received I'm going to try them again. With the emphasise the new missions have placed on objectives I think a few units with some staying power would be quite useful - and in a pinch can pop the shield strat to help and also deal MW back.

Bonus post:

I'd love some feedback on my list. I'm trying to create a 2k point list, but I can't seem to drop under 2.3k points. Any feedback would be welcome:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
How about the most important Necron question: What do we think of the Monolith?

Approximately 2 Battle Cannons and 4 Heavy Bolters worth of shooting for 320pts is still not a great deal, but the mobility it provides is hard to put a price on.

Deep striking it means you can't use it's teleporting tricks till turn 3, and you may struggle to find a big enough landing zone, so I would probably never do that.

The Deceiver bomb is still an option with the same pro's and cons. The extra 61pts probably won't change your chances of either winning big or losing big with that kind of list.

I think there is now room to take one, and just deploy it normally, without having some big trick in mind. Let it roll around doing a bit of shooting, and providing some movement options for infantry units.

A Catachan Leman Russ Tank Commander with Battle Cannon and 3x Heavy Bolter is 194 pts. It does an average of 6,61 battle cannon hits at 72" while moving up to 5" or 3,31 battle cannon hits while moving up to 10" and 7 S5 AP-1 hits at 36" while standing still or 5,25 S 5 AP-1 hits at 36" after moving up to 10". A Leman Russ has T8 and a 3+ Sv and 12 wounds and is a Character Vehicle. You're paying 16,17 pts per wound.

A Sautekh Monolith with a Particle Whip and 4 Gauss Flux Arcs is 320 pts. It does an average of 4 battle cannon hits at 24" while moving up to 6" or 3 hits after moving 6+D6" and also does 8 S5 AP-2 hits at range 24" while moving up to 6" or 6 S5 AP-2 hits at range 24" after moving 6+d6". A Monolith has T8 and 3+ Sv and 20 wounds + any wounds it gets back from Living Metal and it is a Titanic Vehicle. You're paying 16 pts per wound, if you're assuming you get 2 wounds back with Living Metal, 14,5 pts per wound.

You're missing a third of your firepower, is it worth it to sacrifice that for the ability to teleport units over? No, cut off another 40 though, then I think we might start talking. The Monolith is still bad, worst unit? Probably not any longer, but that depends on the buffs the other worst units got (if any). The Nid melee KEQ with the flamer is pretty damn terrible AFAIK.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Spoiler:

Imotekh (160)

Think about how awesome using his two MWBD, and use the Strategem to use it another time, and now you got 3 squads of beefed up Heavy Destroyers. It was merely fun before Chapter Approved, but I'm considering it an actual option now.

The sad thing is that the monolith has too many rules to ever be points efficient, maybe if they made deep strike a stratagem for it, they could drop the points more, but at that point it would just be a CP tax because you'll never start with it on the board. The other problem is it's competition for emergency invasion beams, since it can only be used when you lose your last night scythe or monolith. If you are not planning on using night scythe delivered lychguard that might not be a drawback, but if you are running a split CC gunline list, lychguard in CC on turn two against a target of your choice is probably too good to pass up.

As for worst unit, still the obelisk, and that's unlikely to change unless they make tesla orbs/destructors not suck.

I really want to make nightbringer work, he is a singularly good beat stick. The catch is his screen is a non-trivial issue, either he takes your scarabs with him, or you have to run him with praetorians. He can't keep up with wraiths, and tomb blades might work, but they are better off getting in to rapid fire range and melting faces. He can't go in transports, he doesn't get a dynasty keyword, and he can't enter buildings. Has anyone figured out a way around his failings or is one of my favorite models just going to continue collecting dust.

*edit* So here is what I'm thinking about for gunline necrons, nothing to earth shaking, the only real notable divergences from the other list posted in a similar vein is going with Imotekh to support two units of tesla immortals, and including a stalker to support the immortals as the DDAs won't need reroll ones since they'll get it from their dynasty. I do skip wraiths in what might surprise some, but without support (since the focus is on gunline) I just don't think they are worth it. Everything else is pretty garden variety, Standard screen of scarabs, triple DDA nihilak spearhead, tomb blades and destroyers.

 necr0n wrote:
So I'm trying to include Zahndrekh/Orikan/Imotekh/Obyron in my lists, but the thing is I'm kind of disappointed with Sautekh dynasty. How do you guys use the dynasty trait?

Which units benefit the most? I can only see Destroyers being decent with Advance + shoot.

Any sautekh unit with a heavy weapon that moves, or count as moving after deepstriking. Doom scythes, canoptek tomb sentinel, DDAs..... Sautekh lets you choose imotekh, which is a good HQ choice, and probably the main reason you pick sautekh. The dynasty buff itself is pretty weak, because we dont have many units with heavy weapons.

 necr0n wrote:

Beyond that, which are some spicy combination for Dynasty Traits + units that have been successful for you? I'm trying to figure out how to run my Doomsday Arks, destroyers, wraiths, lychguard, Monolith and even immortals..

You dont run a monolith, because its still bad. With the exception of imotekh our named characters are all bad. Still to expensive for what they can do. DDAs benefit from nihilakh re-rolling hit rolls of 1s when not moving. Destroyers as nephrekh for deepstriking. Wraiths either nehprekh for auto advancing 6", or novokh to re-roll failed hit rolls after charging, or nihilakh to give them a 2++ inv with a stratagem. Lychguard as novokh, nephrekh, nihilakh. Immortals dont benefit much from dynasties,


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimgold wrote:

I really want to make nightbringer work, he is a singularly good beat stick. The catch is his screen is a non-trivial issue, either he takes your scarabs with him, or you have to run him with praetorians. He can't keep up with wraiths, and tomb blades might work, but they are better off getting in to rapid fire range and melting faces. He can't go in transports, he doesn't get a dynasty keyword, and he can't enter buildings. Has anyone figured out a way around his failings or is one of my favorite models just going to continue collecting dust.

What makes you think he cant enter buildings ? Are you talking about ruins ? Because buildings dont exist in the rules.

I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

Only problem is the 12" range of the relic staff.

I just had an interesting thought about the points decrease on vehicles - what if its an indirect buff to RP?

Think about it, what is really effective against infantry with RP? High rate of fire weapons that can overwhelm units, which typically deal 1-2 damage. What is effective against vehicles protected by QS? The same sort of weapon.

So if our vehicles are cheaper, we can field more of them as well as more infantry, so our opponents are forced to direct fire against more targets, meaning that more RP eligible models may survive long enough for RP to proc.

Another thing to note is that the units that have the best chance of proccing RP, troops and shieldguard, also received a price reduction.
Troops are generally taken in large enough numbers for RP to matter, and shieldguard are actually pretty damned durable. A min squad of 5 has as many wounds as 10 immortals, with a higher toughness stat and an invul to boot.

That only makes sense if you were taking THAT many vehicles in the first place. The new points aren't terrible at least, but our main mechanic is still too easily ignored.

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

As always, the bonus to Tesla units diminishes after the first +1.

It's better, for total damage dealing potential, to have two Tesla units at +1, rather than one at +2. So spread the love.

 Werekill wrote:

It's also something I hate about our HQs. Without psykers, we're kinda boring. We have some ok options, but there's nothing beyond very linear buffs. Imotekh is the closest we have to an interesting HQ option.

.

Our most interesting HQ's to use have got to be Zhandrekh and Obyron. You get one passive (Obyrons reroll wound aura), and 4 activated abilities (MWBD, Transient Madness, Counter Tactics, Ghostwalk Mantle). Plus the rarely used bonus abilities of Vargards Duty and Cleaving Counter Blow.

Counter Tactics will not come up that often, but the other 3 activated abilities should be used every turn. Ghostwalk Mantle, like all movement affecting abilities, provides huge tactical flexibility:

-You can obviously use the mantle to set up impressive plays where Zhandrek is Veiled/Dimensional Corridor-ed/Grand Illusioned/Tomb World Deployed across the board, and Obyron follows with a big unit of Lychguard, but it also works very well over short distances.

-They will always make one unit move about twice as fast every turn. Even when NZ and VO start a turn right next to each other, a 5" move + advance from NZ + Ghostwalking 6" in front of him, will let a nearby unit "hop" 12-18"- getting them in firing/charge range of a target they might not have reached otherwise.

-If CC occurs the mantle really shines; you can pull a unit out of combat and still shoot and/or charge afterwards -preventing a cheeky Wave Serpent shutting down Immortals, or launching Lychguard into a new fight able to strike first.

-Even when there's no unit you want to teleport the pair can be used to pull off a surprise assassination. Obyron is tied with Anrakyr for our killiest HQ choice (not including Novokh characters having a relic/WL trait wasted on them). NZ's move + advance+ ghostwalk + VOs charge = 17.5" average strike range, with the ability to jump over a screen in the middle. That distance can be increased with MWBD (on either or both), or with Solarmills? Charge!, or a CP reroll. I've bagged Slay The Warlord with this recently.


That ended up loner than intended. TLDR: This dynamic duo are more interesting to use than a pair of psykers form most armies.

The sole issue I have with Oby & Zahn is they come with Sautehk, which doesn't really support my usual playstyle

However, I'm hearing more and more about them so I'm wondering if I should

Battalion lead by a pair of crypteks to serve as shootoing line, Supreme Command of the big 3, Imo buffing the guns, Zahn being Decievered up the table (just the shard and Zahn is all you need for this to work, because suprise C'tan, bring a brick of Warriors if you wanna be a knob and score high), and then Oby coming in with a unit of Lychguard

it's a tactic I need to have a look at. Monolith might actually be a vlid choice to get even more people out up front if you score extremely well

Oby & Zahn are 275 pts. Thats insane for adding some movement to a single unit. Its at least 355 pts. to bring one unit across the map. Then they are stuck there, they would have to walk from there, unless you have a ghost ark which is another 135 pts., or a monolith for 321 pts. Neither of them excel at melee or shooting. They are not worth the points.

Here's a balanced list that fits in all our fun teleporting options whilst still having a solid core of powerful units:

Zhandrek
Obyron
Overlord + Veil + Voidscythe

10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals
10x Tesla Immortals

10x Lychguard

5x Destroyers

Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
Monolith


Our teleporting tricks only work on infantry units, so there's 5 of them that can all pack a punch.

There are well over a dozen ways to chain the different teleporting mechanics together to allow you to pretty much put any unit anywhere, but I'm not going to go into them here. Having lots of options is the point of the list, but here are 2 possible opening tricks:

1: The classic: Veil Zhandrek > Ghostwalk Lychguard to Zhandrek > 3" charge for Lychguard.

2: Jump 4 souped up shooting units into the midfield:

-MWBD on all three Tesla squads from the Overlord+ Zhandrek+ Phaerons Will Strat. The Destroyers get their Extermination Protocols strat.
-One Tesla unit is Veiled to anywhere.
-One Tesla unit is Ghostwalked 15.5" forward from Zhandrek (Zhandreks advance 8.5"+ Ghostwalk range 6"+ 1" base size)
-One Tesla unit is Dimensional Corridor-ed 9" forward from the Monolith (3" disembark+ 1" base size+ 5" move)
-The Destroyers move forward 10" (plus an advance if necessary thanks to the Sautekh trait)

This negates our 24" range limitation nicely and all that shooting plus the DDAs, and maybe the Monolith, could do some serious damage. Throw in Methodical Destruction somewhere to top it off.

Oby & Zahn are 275 pts. Thats insane for adding some movement to a single unit. Its at least 355 pts. to bring one unit across the map. Then they are stuck there, they would have to walk from there, unless you have a ghost ark which is another 135 pts., or a monolith for 321 pts. Neither of them excel at melee or shooting. They are not worth the points.

I'm not suggesting that these two will be a feature of the most competitive lists, merely that they are very interesting to use. However, I would argue a few of your points:

1- They fill your 2 compulsory HQ slots so it's not an extra 275pts, they cost about 100pts more than 2 basic HQs. And they are adding movement to a unit every turn, as well as the ability to fall back and act normally. Plus they have better stats than the basic HQ versions, and a few extra abilities.

2- If you do use them to, for example, launch 10 Lychguard up the board, they are by no means "stuck there" in any negative sense. Firstly "there" is where the action is. There is a unit of Lychguard for them to support, and they can keep Ghostwalking them, which provides a significant amount of movement even when NZ and VO are right by each other.

3- They don't excel at shooting or melee because, like all Necron HQs, they are support characters. VO is pretty choppy in his own right though.

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

If you're going Sautekh, I'd just bring Imotekh to call the storm to easily proc Methodical Destruction.

Necronplayer wrote:

Pyrothem wrote:
I find my TIM's (Tesla Immortals) are savage with Sautekh. Have a lord with the relic staff and you can pretty much guarantee a wound on something then with their strat the MWBD TIM's pop on 4's, 5's and 6's! This also allows your Tomb Blades to have bonuses they are so jealous about that infantry get. Really need those DDay Arks to land blows? Chip one wound off with something then they can hit on 2's!

If you're going Sautekh, I'd just bring Imotekh to call the storm to easily proc Methodical Destruction.

Bear in mind that this interpretation of “attack” has not been consistently upheld at all events. Many different TOs have ruled on this differently—especially after the FAQ syntactical change.