Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**Draco765**

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I'm inclined to think that you can disembark from our "transports" turn 1 due to the FAQ, but it's ambiguous and shouldn't be taken for granted.

It's also kind of irrelevant as Lychguard from a Grand Illusioned Mono/Scythe still requires you to go first to be any good. If you go second the Scythe will be shot down, the Lychguard will then be either shot, charged, backed away from, screened, or the Scythe will be surrounded so they can't disembark.

NZ + VO + Veil carrier = ~350pts and all but guarantees the Lychguard get to charge.

Deceiver + Night Scythe = 360pts and needs to go first to work.

Which is why you "castle" up your units around the Deceiver in such a way that once you know who is going first, you can just shift what you are going to re-deploy and have alternate options.

So, what we need is to do is figure out what a "if you go second" cluster of units that the Deceiver can redeploy that you place on the table in range during deployment.

NZ + VO + Veil carrier, while the best bet at a safeish turn one charge is also subject to them having a good screen on good targets of a first turn charge.
The Deceiver trick can at least bring along a shooting unit to help wear down any screens.

There are NO perfect combos in this situation. You have to keep an open mind and adjust what you do based on the current variables.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Draco765 wrote:

Except that you do not set them up in the vehicle, they are set up in the Tomb World, which puts them into "reserves."

because you can't put something into either as they do not have the transport keyword. the FAQ clarifies that you treat them as disembarking because you have the option to 'transport' as many units as you choose to risk.

the treat them as disembarking tells you to do just that ... follow ALL the rules as you would if disembarking a unit.

it can't be any clearer.

It is simple, you are changing the wording of the FAQ.

Only AFTER they are setup do they get to be treated as "disembarked."

They are still treated as in "reserves" until after they are setup.

**Reanimation_Protocol**

in that case .. if the monolith / scythe is destroyed outside of deployment in T1 then the reserve units are all lost with no chance of being placed on the table.

I refuse to believe that is either RAI or RAW. trying to word it in such a way as to handicap a player in such a fashion is beyond even GW's normal level of inept rules writing.

**torblind**

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
in that case .. if the monolith / scythe is destroyed outside of deployment in T1 then the reserve units are all lost with no chance of being placed on the table.

I refuse to believe that is either RAI or RAW. trying to word it in such a way as to handicap a player in such a fashion is beyond even GW's normal level of inept rules writing.

It's worse, it applies in the deployment zone too.

And this was both RAI and RAW for a full year before we had our codex. And due to them monkey patching this oozing beasts that the 8th rules set has become, is still the case.

**iGuy91**

In what way, shape or form are they considered to be in reserves? The wording of "Invasion Beams" never once mentions the term. They are "On their tomb world".

When the player decides to deploy them, they are "Set Up" within 3" of the Night Scythe, and are considered to have disembarked from a transport.

**Draco765**

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
in that case .. if the monolith / scythe is destroyed outside of deployment in T1 then the reserve units are all lost with no chance of being placed on the table.

I refuse to believe that is either RAI or RAW. trying to word it in such a way as to handicap a player in such a fashion is beyond even GW's normal level of inept rules writing.

I know, but that unfortunately this is what happens when they have too many different "special" rules that happen at key moments then they go and change how that key moment actually works.

All they have to do is make clear the units are treated as being embarked and keep the old wording from the 7th edition of the Nightscythes where it makes it clear that the unit is not in the transport when the transport is destroyed, updating the wording to 8th edition.

Something like:
When you set up this model, at the same time you can also set up any number of friendly <DYNASTY> INFANTRY units on their tomb world rather than setting them up on the battlefield, they are treated as being embarked in the Night Scythe/Monolith. Before this model moves in your Movement phase, a single friendly <DYNASTY> unit that was set up on their tomb world can be transported onto the battlefield by the Night Scythe/Monolith, the unit is treated as if it has disembarked from a Transport. If a Night Scythe/Monolith is destroyed, the units remain on the Tomb World and suffer no ill effects. If all <DYNASTY> Night Scythes and Monoliths from your army are destroyed, any friendly <DYNASTY> units still on their tomb world are considered to be slain.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

iGuy91 wrote:
In what way, shape or form are they considered to be in reserves? The wording of "Invasion Beams" never once mentions the term. They are "On their tomb world".

When the player decides to deploy them, they are "Set Up" within 3" of the Night Scythe, and are considered to have disembarked from a transport.

In the big rule book it says that anything that is not Deployed on the table or embarked in a transport are treated as in "reserves."

late for work, cant look up page number right now....

**torblind**

iGuy91 wrote:
In what way, shape or form are they considered to be in reserves? The wording of "Invasion Beams" never once mentions the term. They are "On their tomb world".

When the player decides to deploy them, they are "Set Up" within 3" of the Night Scythe, and are considered to have disembarked from a transport.

Anything not on the board (or in transports), are off the board during deployment, and don't get to come out turn 1.

This is the universal golden rule with only very very few and only very very clear exceptions. (I can't list any from the top of my head, but I'm not up-to-speed on the cult situation).

If you tell me that units put on a tomb world are to be treated as being deployed in a Transport, then possibly fine. Only they're not. That wording doesn't come into play after they are put on the table, arriving from off the board, post turn 1 as per usual.

**vict0988**

Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Draco765 wrote:

Except that you do not set them up in the vehicle, they are set up in the Tomb World, which puts them into "reserves."

because you can't put something into either as they do not have the transport keyword. the FAQ clarifies that you treat them as disembarking because you have the option to 'transport' as many units as you choose to risk.

the treat them as disembarking tells you to do just that ... follow ALL the rules as you would if disembarking a unit.

it can't be any clearer.

Are you serious or are you trolling? How about I make some real clear wording for you? Units do not counts as arriving from Reinforcements when arriving via the Eternity Gate ability of the Monolith, the Invasion Beams ability of the Night Scythe or the Emergency Invasion Beams Stratagem, instead they counts as having disembarked from a transport.

Or if you wanted it to be part of the wording of the Monolith "Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; this counts as disembarking from a transport rather than arriving from reserves for all rules purposes."

Why would you put in the "the unit that has just arrived" BS? The RAW is clear and RAI is impossible to know, but it would have been trivial to make the intentions clear if that was indeed the intention, logic follows, that it was not.

**Reanimation_Protocol**

vict0988 wrote:
Reanimation_Protocol wrote:
Draco765 wrote:

Except that you do not set them up in the vehicle, they are set up in the Tomb World, which puts them into "reserves."

because you can't put something into either as they do not have the transport keyword. the FAQ clarifies that you treat them as disembarking because you have the option to 'transport' as many units as you choose to risk.

the treat them as disembarking tells you to do just that ... follow ALL the rules as you would if disembarking a unit.

it can't be any clearer.

Are you serious or are you trolling? How about I make some real clear wording for you? Units do not counts as arriving from Reinforcements when arriving via the Eternity Gate ability of the Monolith, the Invasion Beams ability of the Night Scythe or the Emergency Invasion Beams Stratagem, instead they counts as having disembarked from a transport.

Or if you wanted it to be part of the wording of the Monolith "Set up the unit so that it is wholly within 3" of this model and more than 1" from any enemy models; this counts as disembarking from a transport rather than arriving from reserves for all rules purposes."

Why would you put in the "the unit that has just arrived" BS? The RAW is clear and RAI is impossible to know, but it would have been trivial to make the intentions clear if that was indeed the intention, logic follows, that it was not.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what you just said ... it sounded like you were accusing me of trolling while simultaneously agreeing with me on every point I've made in the thread.

I has a confuse

**Shaelinith**

I think the YMDC debate is kinda sterile, and i wanted to mail GW on this subject, but i was wondering if maybe someone on this thread already did, and had a (semi) official answer ? Maybe GW is unaware that the wording is confusing as hell and they think that everything is clear.

**Red Corsair**

iGuy91 wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Outside Daemons and Imperial Guard which survive the same.
Prepared positions and take cover would be used on the guard, so it's still worth it there. Sure demons wouldn't care, well except for the 60 S 5 shots anyway lol.

Technically at that point, using solar pulse can also help tesla carve up guard turn 1 by removing a squad you want dead's cover bonus.

Ironically take cover strat is not cover. It just gives plus one saves. So it would work on prepared positions but not that.

**Draco765**

Shaelinith wrote:
I think the YMDC debate is kinda sterile, and i wanted to mail GW on this subject, but i was wondering if maybe someone on this thread already did, and had a (semi) official answer ? Maybe GW is unaware that the wording is confusing as hell and they think that everything is clear.

The more people who do email the more likely they are to revisit the wording.

**torblind**

Draco765 wrote:
Shaelinith wrote:
I think the YMDC debate is kinda sterile, and i wanted to mail GW on this subject, but i was wondering if maybe someone on this thread already did, and had a (semi) official answer ? Maybe GW is unaware that the wording is confusing as hell and they think that everything is clear.

The more people who do email the more likely they are to revisit the wording.

I have, they don't answer. If enough people worry about it, it gets a FAQ entry. You should *ALL* email them about this, regularly! Ie 2 weeks later "I don't know if I asked about this, bit...".6 weeks later, "I had a discussion last night during a game..." 9 weeks later, "I saw this guy playing necrons, and he said.." 11 weeks later... Etc.

Just bombard them. They're people. They are swayed.

**Draco765**

torblind wrote:
Draco765 wrote:
Shaelinith wrote:
I think the YMDC debate is kinda sterile, and i wanted to mail GW on this subject, but i was wondering if maybe someone on this thread already did, and had a (semi) official answer ? Maybe GW is unaware that the wording is confusing as hell and they think that everything is clear.

The more people who do email the more likely they are to revisit the wording.

I have, they don't answer. If enough people worry about it, it gets a FAQ entry. You should *ALL* email them about this, regularly! Ie 2 weeks later "I don't know if I asked about this, bit...".6 weeks later, "I had a discussion last night during a game..." 9 weeks later, "I saw this guy playing necrons, and he said.." 11 weeks later... Etc.

Just bombard them. They're people. They are swayed.

Just remember to be clear precise and respectful for the human on the other side that has to read all of these.

I think this is the correct email address: 40KFAQ@gwplc.com

**Werekill**

Unrelated to the ongoing debate:

Has anyone messed around with a Catacomb Command Barge post-CA? I'm strongly considering giving it a shot, but for the points, I'm not sure if it brings enough to the table compared to Imotekh (Imotekh with Tesla, specifically).

I've also barely used the unit even before the point drops, so I'm inexperienced with it. I'd really appreciate any impressions and experiences that anyone could share.

**Odrankt**

Can we please put the whole RAW vs RAI in YMDC as we are getting no where with this. And we don't need several pages of debate when this is a tactics thread.

If you are running 2 Tesla immortals than Imotekh is good. But i always take a CCB over Imotekh because of QS, 12" movement , Gauss cannon heavy 3 S6 -3 D3 shots, Fly keyword.

**IHateNids**

I've actually been having a ridiculous amount of success with Imotekh, even just shepherding 2x5 Teslamortals. I have a unit of 10 now, and might *eventually* get another unit of 10, but for a while I'll be using 10 Tesla & 10 Guass

He's a bit lacklustre on his own, but thats the case with all of our HQs. His Mortal Wounds, fixed Best WLT, and being one of the only characters with 2+/4++ in the codex, he's not bad at just generally bullying infantry.

Also, incidentally, given that he has WS/BS2+ he can comfortably nuke an MSU squad on his own given he has one of the only 2D ranged weapons in the entire codex.

Just food for thought, given that 150 points is pretty good

**Werekill**

IHateNids wrote:
I've actually been having a ridiculous amount of success with Imotekh, even just shepherding 2x5 Teslamortals. I have a unit of 10 now, and might *eventually* get another unit of 10, but for a while I'll be using 10 Tesla & 10 Guass

He's a bit lacklustre on his own, but thats the case with all of our HQs. His Mortal Wounds, fixed Best WLT, and being one of the only characters with 2+/4++ in the codex, he's not bad at just generally bullying infantry.

Also, incidentally, given that he has WS/BS2+ he can comfortably nuke an MSU squad on his own given he has one of the only 2D ranged weapons in the entire codex.

Just food for thought, given that 150 points is pretty good

I recently was able to FINALLY get 20 Tesla Immortals, after a couple years of only using Gauss. I just liked the aesthetic too much, and Gauss wasn't too bad before.

But I am extremely hyped for a deathball of Imotekh and 20 Tesla Immortals. You're right, I think he's way too solid in comparison to the CCB in that scenario.

Pairing him with a Hyperphase Sword Lord plus a ball of Gauss Immortals or Warriors? Then giving that Lord the veil? That just sounds too nasty not to use.

**IHateNids**

The sole reason I keep Guass around is to be Veiled/Obyron'd into position as a strike team.

11 dudes landing anywhere to deliver the shots where they're most needed is way more useful to an army than Tomb Blades

Especially Since Oby can kinda catapult them side to side of Zahn, who you can use to chaperone literally anything else up the table while Imo buffs the Teslas downfield.

But then again again, I am one of the few people who think all three of them isnt as stupidly high percentage of a list.

**p5freak**

TACTICAL RESERVES
Instead of being set up on the battlefield during Deployment, many units have the ability to be set up on teleportariums, in high orbit, in ambush,
etc., in order to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game, at
least half the total number of units in your army must be set up on the battlefield, and the combined points value of all the units you set up on the
battlefield during Deployment (including those that are embarked within Transports that are set up on the battlefield) must be at least half of your
army’s total points value, even if every unit in your army has an ability that would allow them to be set up elsewhere.
Furthermore, in matched play games, units that are not placed on the battlefield during deployment in order to arrive on the battle mid-game as
reinforcements cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round.
Finally, any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the third battle round in a matched play game counts as having been destroyed.

Units on the tomb world are set up to arrive on the battlefield mid-game as reinforcements. Anything that is not deployed on the battlefield is reinforcements. They also dont count towards half of your army total points value, because they arent in transports. The red sentence clearly tells us that units who are not placed on the battlefield (The tomb world is not the battlefield) cannot cannot arrive on the battlefield during the first battle round. Invasion beams and eternity gate was changed because both units arent transports.

Werekill wrote:

Has anyone messed around with a Catacomb Command Barge post-CA? I'm strongly considering giving it a shot, but for the points, I'm not sure if it brings enough to the table compared to Imotekh (Imotekh with Tesla, specifically).

The only useful way i think is : Mephrit warlord, tesla cannon, merciless tyrant, lightning field, snipe enemy characters from 30", and at 15" with AP-1.

**torblind**

p5freak wrote:

Werekill wrote:

Has anyone messed around with a Catacomb Command Barge post-CA? I'm strongly considering giving it a shot, but for the points, I'm not sure if it brings enough to the table compared to Imotekh (Imotekh with Tesla, specifically).

The only useful way i think is : Mephrit warlord, tesla cannon, merciless tyrant, lightning field, snipe enemy characters from 30", and at 15" with AP-1.

A Novokh warlord CCB can also tag along with Novokhs Wraiths to give them exploding 6s in CC, also on their rerolls. For hilliarious fun expresions on your opponent. You're now looking at a ~60% increase in damage output.

Furthermore suddenly that otherwise too expensive Resurrection Orb is worth considering, as in the right moment (eg when you need it the most), getting extra wraiths back suddenly pays its price.

I had the misfortune to have this in my face in my only ever match up against another Necron player. It was unpleasant.

**Werekill**

Oof, that's nasty. I like it.

**Draco765**

torblind wrote:
p5freak wrote:

Werekill wrote:

Has anyone messed around with a Catacomb Command Barge post-CA? I'm strongly considering giving it a shot, but for the points, I'm not sure if it brings enough to the table compared to Imotekh (Imotekh with Tesla, specifically).

The only useful way i think is : Mephrit warlord, tesla cannon, merciless tyrant, lightning field, snipe enemy characters from 30", and at 15" with AP-1.

A Novokh warlord CCB can also tag along with Novokhs Wraiths to give them exploding 6s in CC, also on their rerolls. For hilliarious fun expresions on your opponent. You're now looking at a ~60% increase in damage output.

Furthermore suddenly that otherwise too expensive Resurrection Orb is worth considering, as in the right moment (eg when you need it the most), getting extra wraiths back suddenly pays its price.

I had the misfortune to have this in my face in my only ever match up against another Necron player. It was unpleasant.

Orbs are <DYNASTY> INFANTRY only.

But yes, CCB or Destroyer lord are great to use as a Novokh HQ to go along with the fast moving Wraiths.

**torblind**

Ah. I have a bone to pick with a someone.

**Cynista**

torblind wrote:

A Novokh warlord CCB can also tag along with Novokhs Wraiths to give them exploding 6s in CC, also on their rerolls. For hilliarious fun expresions on your opponent. You're now looking at a ~60% increase in damage output.

I do this with a Cryptek in my 1500p list and a CCB in my 1750p. The only issue is you end up wasting wave of command, generally having nothing to use it on. The ideal choice for this tactic would be a DLord, if only it was slightly better/cheaper.

I do however think that the Mephrit sniper CCB is the best way to take it, it's just annoying having to make your battalion Mephrit to accommodate this

**Werekill**

Sadly, Mephrit is such a trap. We really just don't have the range or speed to abuse it.

Plus you miss out on Imotekh, who I'm starting to suspect may be an all-star.

**Odrankt**

Werekill wrote:
Sadly, Mephrit is such a trap. We really just don't have the range or speed to abuse it.

Plus you miss out on Imotekh, who I'm starting to suspect may be an all-star.

Tomb blades benefit from Mephrit the most. Due to their speed and amount of dakka. Especially Tesla TBs. If in range, 36 shots at S5 AP -1 and the chance to pop more hits on 6s clears hordes easily. It's literally like putting a hot knife on butter.

Speaking of Mephrit, thinking of running this in a 1k singular Codex tournament this weekend. Who says Necrons aren't OP

Spoiler:

**p5freak**

Cynista wrote:

I do however think that the Mephrit sniper CCB is the best way to take it, it's just annoying having to make your battalion Mephrit to accommodate this

You dont have to. You can mix different dynasties in a detachment. We are necrons, the battle brothers rule dont affect us. You dont get dynasty codes, but you can use dynasty stratagems. Another way is an auxiliary support detachment, which is -1 CP though.

**moonsmite**

Odrankt wrote:
Werekill wrote:
Sadly, Mephrit is such a trap. We really just don't have the range or speed to abuse it.

Plus you miss out on Imotekh, who I'm starting to suspect may be an all-star.

Tomb blades benefit from Mephrit the most. Due to their speed and amount of dakka. Especially Tesla TBs. If in range, 36 shots at S5 AP -1 and the chance to pop more hits on 6s clears hordes easily. It's literally like putting a hot knife on butter.

Speaking of Mephrit, thinking of running this in a 1k singular Codex tournament this weekend. Who says Necrons aren't OP

Spoiler:

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [57 PL, 987pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Dynasty Choice: Dynasty: Mephrit

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light, Warlord

+ Elites +

Triarch Stalker [8 PL, 125pts]: Heat Ray

+ Fast Attack +

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 297pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

+ Heavy Support +

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]

++ Total: [57 PL, 987pts] ++

Would say your list is wrong, Rule of 3 only applys to 1001-2000. at 1000 points, its a rule of 2.
Maybe another stalker and 3 scarabs for objective grabbing.
Though the list looks fairly strong. Just hope no 2 damage spam hits you, as it will really hurt

**p5freak**

The rule of 3 is not a rule. Its a suggestion for organised play. Its up to the TO, if he uses it, or not.

**dapperbandit**

I've used a CCB with the Mephrit Warlord Trait.

It's slightly awkward as your inclination is to push forward to snipe characters (which it's really good at, it makes mince meat of Astra Militarum and Aeldari characters, especially with the Voltaic Staff) without leaving the CCB exposed and still buffing your immortals. Positioning with it is much more of a headache.

So altogether it's okay, but the lack of an inbuilt Invuln save hurts it, Quantum Shielding isn't all that helpful a if you've become a target of DD6 guns you're playing wrong and D3 melee can be hard to block.