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2019/07/03 14:40:11
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Yes, he provides rerolling 1's to wound PLUS backfield counter assault AND he's cheaper than a Cryptek. I've flirted with running a Cloaktek with the TB's instead but I'd rather get the 50% buff to wound rather than a 17% buff for RP.
Keep in mind that Lord only buff Infantry
EDIT : maybe you were talking of buffing the H Destroyers, my bad.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/03 14:44:30
2019/07/03 14:41:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
v0iddrgn wrote: Just wanted to share this list with you all. I'm liking the full Heavy Destroyer unit as it can be pretty mobile and reroll 1's to hit and wound.
Tomb Blades [14 PL, 264pts] . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts] . 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon
I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.
So you keep the lord back there with them then?
Yes, he provides rerolling 1's to wound PLUS backfield counter assault AND he's cheaper than a Cryptek. I've flirted with running a Cloaktek with the TB's instead but I'd rather get the 50% buff to wound rather than a 17% buff for RP.
That's not really how the math goes. It's the exact opposite in fact.
The more important question is "50% of what", and "17% of what", ie deal with absolutes and not relatives.
RP is already quite weak, 1/3 chance improved to 1/2 chance, but how many rolls will they get to make through the course of a game?
The HDs will do a very different type of roll. Improving their scores by 17% could be huge, they're one of your main sources of anti tank, and there's the variance/luck aspcet of it, not just the average. Reviving the odd tomb blade is likely a quite marginal affair in comparison.
2019/07/03 21:54:37
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
v0iddrgn wrote: Just wanted to share this list with you all. I'm liking the full Heavy Destroyer unit as it can be pretty mobile and reroll 1's to hit and wound.
Tomb Blades [14 PL, 264pts] . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts] . 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon
I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.
So you keep the lord back there with them then?
Yes, he provides rerolling 1's to wound PLUS backfield counter assault AND he's cheaper than a Cryptek. I've flirted with running a Cloaktek with the TB's instead but I'd rather get the 50% buff to wound rather than a 17% buff for RP.
That's not really how the math goes. It's the exact opposite in fact.
The more important question is "50% of what", and "17% of what", ie deal with absolutes and not relatives.
RP is already quite weak, 1/3 chance improved to 1/2 chance, but how many rolls will they get to make through the course of a game?
The HDs will do a very different type of roll. Improving their scores by 17% could be huge, they're one of your main sources of anti tank, and there's the variance/luck aspcet of it, not just the average. Reviving the odd tomb blade is likely a quite marginal affair in comparison.
^THIS
2019/07/03 22:00:09
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
v0iddrgn wrote: Just wanted to share this list with you all. I'm liking the full Heavy Destroyer unit as it can be pretty mobile and reroll 1's to hit and wound.
Tomb Blades [14 PL, 264pts] . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts] . 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon
I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.
So you keep the lord back there with them then?
Yes, he provides rerolling 1's to wound PLUS backfield counter assault AND he's cheaper than a Cryptek. I've flirted with running a Cloaktek with the TB's instead but I'd rather get the 50% buff to wound rather than a 17% buff for RP.
I think you mixed things up, you get a 17% increase in damage output for Infantry units within 6" of a Lord and a 50% increase in RP for units within 3" of a Cryptek. A Cryptek would be able to help with the Heavy Destroyers' and TBs' RP and heal the DDAs while the Lord only provides that modest boost in firepower to the Heavy Destroyers. The list would be quite a bit better with a third DDA and a Cloaktek replacing the Heavy Destroyers and Lord, Nihilakh does nothing for Heavy Destroyers which makes the list kind of irksome to look at from an optimization standpoint, it's not the biggest deal if you like your HDs or don't have a third DDA, but it seems like a clear mistake from a purely competitive perspective.
If you wanted to continue with the current number and kinds of models I'd suggest running the Wraiths, Destroyers and TBs in a Nephrekh Outrider led by your Destroyer Lord and putting the Heavy Support into your Battalion and changing it to be Sautekh or Mephrit as this would make the Lord far more useful, it would also make the Heavy Destroyers rather than the Destroyers benefit from your Cryptek and would allow you to get more use out of your Warriors while they are on the table, which I'd argue is better than using CP to DS them and then having a Code that can only be used when you Advance and therefore don't shoot with them. I'd also go with one unit of 20 Warriors and one unit of 16, maybe see if you can trade someone for another 4 Warriors since running more than 9 Scarabs and more than 40 Warriors is terribly unpopular, but running 40 Warriors can be very fun. Replacing the Wraiths with Scarabs would probably be best, they provide an adequate amount of damage and way more board presence, a 4-man Wraith squad isn't that scary, it'll very quickly be reduced to 2 models and be unable to surround a model in combat and prevent it from escaping, a key to making melee units more effective IMO and trying to have your TBs assist in taking captives won't necessarily end well.
Werekill wrote: To be fair, that's slightly misleading. It's a 50% buff to the percent chance, yes, but it's not an additional 50% reanimated.
It's a base of 33.3% chance increased to 50% chance, an increase of 17% more units resurrected. Percentages can be a bit tricky to talk about.
No a Cryptek will Reanimate 17% of the dead models in nearby units. Nearby units will pass 50% more RP rolls when near a Cryptek. The math often looks pretty terrible for Crypteks outside of armies that make heavy use of RP like Warrior blobs, big squads of TBs or Destroyers and even then Lords will still usually perform better if you ignore the Chronometron or Canoptek Cloak, but that's half the reason to take a Cryptek, which speaks ill of how poor the naked Cryptek is.
A Lord has nothing to do with 50%, he will never increase your firepower by 50%. If you have 100 pts worth of relevant units close to a Lord he will provide 17 pts worth of shooting. His real strength lies in how he combines with other buffs, if those 100 pts worth of shooting is multiplied to 200 pts worth of shooting by other means then the Lord will provide 34 pts worth of shooting.
2019/07/04 01:58:06
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
v0iddrgn wrote: Just wanted to share this list with you all. I'm liking the full Heavy Destroyer unit as it can be pretty mobile and reroll 1's to hit and wound.
Tomb Blades [14 PL, 264pts] . Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
+ Heavy Support +
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Doomsday Ark [10 PL, 160pts]
Heavy Destroyers [9 PL, 150pts] . 3x Heavy Destroyer: 3x Heavy Gauss Cannon
I find the DArks plus HD's can bracket a Knight in one round so that's something.
So you keep the lord back there with them then?
Yes, he provides rerolling 1's to wound PLUS backfield counter assault AND he's cheaper than a Cryptek. I've flirted with running a Cloaktek with the TB's instead but I'd rather get the 50% buff to wound rather than a 17% buff for RP.
I think you mixed things up, you get a 17% increase in damage output for Infantry units within 6" of a Lord and a 50% increase in RP for units within 3" of a Cryptek. A Cryptek would be able to help with the Heavy Destroyers' and TBs' RP and heal the DDAs while the Lord only provides that modest boost in firepower to the Heavy Destroyers. The list would be quite a bit better with a third DDA and a Cloaktek replacing the Heavy Destroyers and Lord, Nihilakh does nothing for Heavy Destroyers which makes the list kind of irksome to look at from an optimization standpoint, it's not the biggest deal if you like your HDs or don't have a third DDA, but it seems like a clear mistake from a purely competitive perspective.
If you wanted to continue with the current number and kinds of models I'd suggest running the Wraiths, Destroyers and TBs in a Nephrekh Outrider led by your Destroyer Lord and putting the Heavy Support into your Battalion and changing it to be Sautekh or Mephrit as this would make the Lord far more useful, it would also make the Heavy Destroyers rather than the Destroyers benefit from your Cryptek and would allow you to get more use out of your Warriors while they are on the table, which I'd argue is better than using CP to DS them and then having a Code that can only be used when you Advance and therefore don't shoot with them. I'd also go with one unit of 20 Warriors and one unit of 16, maybe see if you can trade someone for another 4 Warriors since running more than 9 Scarabs and more than 40 Warriors is terribly unpopular, but running 40 Warriors can be very fun. Replacing the Wraiths with Scarabs would probably be best, they provide an adequate amount of damage and way more board presence, a 4-man Wraith squad isn't that scary, it'll very quickly be reduced to 2 models and be unable to surround a model in combat and prevent it from escaping, a key to making melee units more effective IMO and trying to have your TBs assist in taking captives.
The Heavy Destroyers are there for MOBILE anti-tank. The DArks are static and can be hidden from. The reason I like running Nephrekh battalion is so that the slowest elements of the army can teleport or advance to advantageous positions easily. I'm not a fan of Sautekh outside of Doom Scythes, so Im happy to take rerolling 1's from a Nihilakh Spearhead instead.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/04 04:56:44
2019/07/08 04:29:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Just got back from an event called the Cleveland Chainsword Championship, a 50-person GT at a Dave and Busters (awesome venue, highly recommend getting out there for it next year if you can!). I went 5-1 and took 2nd Overall with the following list:
I flip-flop a lot about taking the Nephrekh Battalion or just using Imotekh and all Sautekh but I really liked the extra movement this weekend. I have to decide if I think an Overlord is worth it just to buff Destroyers (virtually never used it on anything else). Otherwise it's pretty much "the list" right now, but always cool to take Necrons far in a bigger event! Only person who finished ahead of me was TJ Lanigan, who's 2nd overall in ITC right now and has won like 4-5 GTs in a row.
Alpharius is that guy at the FLGS that just got his first 'Start Collecting' box fully assembled, and Guilliman's the guy that's been playing since the 90's. When Alpharius started doing well, Guilliman said he didn't play a 'real army' and started screaming about how he sucked. Then Alpharius tabled him.
2019/07/08 05:04:55
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Just got back from an event called the Cleveland Chainsword Championship, a 50-person GT at a Dave and Busters (awesome venue, highly recommend getting out there for it next year if you can!). I went 5-1 and took 2nd Overall with the following list:
I flip-flop a lot about taking the Nephrekh Battalion or just using Imotekh and all Sautekh but I really liked the extra movement this weekend. I have to decide if I think an Overlord is worth it just to buff Destroyers (virtually never used it on anything else). Otherwise it's pretty much "the list" right now, but always cool to take Necrons far in a bigger event! Only person who finished ahead of me was TJ Lanigan, who's 2nd overall in ITC right now and has won like 4-5 GTs in a row.
Battle reports would be much appreciated sir!
2019/07/08 06:29:01
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Just got back from an event called the Cleveland Chainsword Championship, a 50-person GT at a Dave and Busters (awesome venue, highly recommend getting out there for it next year if you can!). I went 5-1 and took 2nd Overall with the following list:
Congrats ! I am a little surprised you have no scarabs. Also surprised you mentioned MWBD on destroyers. I usually never MWBD them, i use EP on them every turn until they die. Which happens pretty fast. You could remove the sautekh spearhead, get rid of the cryptek, add the TBs and DAs to the nephrekh battalion, make it sautekh, and use the cryptek leftover points to replace the overlord with imotekh.
2019/07/08 16:23:48
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'm running something similar for ATC, except a few more immortals and Wraiths instead of tomb blades. It's been 3-0 in the few test games I've gotten in so far. It's a tough call though between the movement and more CPs. I usually lean towards having the movement because I can be pretty thrifty with CP and board control is a thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/08 16:24:24
11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
2019/07/08 21:27:43
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
@vict0988: If I get some time later in the week I may produce a summary for you guys. I showed some Irond Hands Primaris the meaning of Weak Flesh round one, then I played a Daemon/Thousand Sons Soup list, a Daemons/Flawless Host Discolord list, and three Imperial Soup lists of various sorts.
@p5freak: Your suggestion to dump the Spearhead, etc., is the alternate version of this list I go to when I'm in the mood for extra Mortal Wounds. Like I said, I go back and forth between the two builds.
As for a lack of Scarabs, they aren't really necessary, but they do have uses. I have a third list I haven't tried yet but am curious to give a run out, which ditches the Battalion altogether, and runs as follows:
My one loss on the weekend happened because Immortals got locked in combat and I couldn't shoot important targets off objectives for two turns. Two turns in a row where my opponent outscored me on the primaries, and I lost by 3pts. So I'm now even more interested in a list with 100% Fly keyword, lol.
Alpharius is that guy at the FLGS that just got his first 'Start Collecting' box fully assembled, and Guilliman's the guy that's been playing since the 90's. When Alpharius started doing well, Guilliman said he didn't play a 'real army' and started screaming about how he sucked. Then Alpharius tabled him.
2019/07/10 10:41:29
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I know the ETC format is not very popular here, but the 2019 lists have been released and there is some necrons in some rosters. Usually Sautekh tesla spam with a Doomwing, but not always (one list has 3 Annihilation Barges).
Remember that it is a team tournament, with only one codex representation for 8 players.
It's interesting that some team decided to take necrons in the roster, and in my opinion it is here to be a counter for some list (Doomwing is scary against Castle Tau).
Is there any world in which the Annihilation Barge can be justified? A squad of immortals costs about the same, and has far more firepower.
The tesla destructor is one of the worst guns in the game at this point. No AP, and 1 damage limit it to shooting chaff, which we already have higher ROF shooting to handle.
I've got several of the things, and they've seen use once this edition. I was not impressed.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2019/07/11 14:32:06
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: Is there any world in which the Annihilation Barge can be justified? A squad of immortals costs about the same, and has far more firepower.
The tesla destructor is one of the worst guns in the game at this point. No AP, and 1 damage limit it to shooting chaff, which we already have higher ROF shooting to handle.
I've got several of the things, and they've seen use once this edition. I was not impressed.
You'd have to compare it to 3 or 4 Tesla blades, but even then it's a tough sale.
What it has going for it:
- higher T
- smaller unit footprint
- higher S
- different FOC slot
- does not "bracket" with damage (tomb blades drop a model and corresponding damage output every two wounds, the barge is still at maximum output with only a single wound left)
- QS
If any of the above is relevant to your meta, then you might consider it
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh and it's a cool model!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 14:47:55
2019/07/11 14:57:47
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Sautekh Anni Barges are like 2 Tesla Tomb Blades and a Destroyer taped together.
Anni Barge with GC is 120. 2 Tomb blades + Destroyer are 112.
There's lots of little differences between them but you get similar firepower, speed, and durability for a similar amount of points.
ABs aren't the most efficient option but they're not terrible. I've never been disappointed when fielding a trio (I only have so many TBs and Destroyers).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 15:02:20
2019/07/11 15:10:36
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Shaelinith wrote: I know the ETC format is not very popular here, but the 2019 lists have been released and there is some necrons in some rosters. Usually Sautekh tesla spam with a Doomwing, but not always (one list has 3 Annihilation Barges).
Remember that it is a team tournament, with only one codex representation for 8 players.
It's interesting that some team decided to take necrons in the roster, and in my opinion it is here to be a counter for some list (Doomwing is scary against Castle Tau).
Check out team Greece Necrons and if you got any questions on my list go ahead and ask! It might look like a very weird list, but it is a list I've been playing and evolving since January (In January I began playing 3 DDA, 3 DS, Imotekh, 3x5 Immortals Sautekh with tb spam) and I think I can talk about it a lot! I'm very glad more countries decided to bring Necrons, especially some of the stronger ones, like USA and Germany.
EDIT: Attached my list for reference.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/11 17:48:52
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2019/07/11 18:01:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I have to ask, what is the intent of the Ghost Ark? There are no warriors to support it, so i have to assume its to hide characters from snipers?
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2019/07/11 18:22:05
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
iGuy91 wrote: I have to ask, what is the intent of the Ghost Ark? There are no warriors to support it, so i have to assume its to hide characters from snipers?
The ghost ark is taken as a solo piece. I have played with including 1 unit of warriors a lot, but I just didn't get enough value. The reason I included a ghost ark is because it is cheap (145pts), fast, durable, flying and most importantly long model.
The way I use it is I screen in melee heavy matchups, like Orks, GSC and Chaos with the 8" long model with fly. The added bonus is that it might not even die in a single round of combat. It gives me very, very good trades. Aka, a unit of 250pts fighting twice to kill one. It can move block very well, especially combined with the flyers. 2 Flyers in front and 1 ghost ark right behind them can stop 3 knights from moving, it's incredible.
The way I use it in shooting matchups like TAU, IG etc. is an assault threat. I try to assault stuff from the get go. Deploy it aggressively, move 12" and try to "tag" stuff. Sometimes it works, other times it just draws fire. Let me tell you that for 145pts it's very durable, so drawing shooting on it instead of my DDAs or the rest of my list is generally a good reason to have it. I'll say in a LOT of my matches it's the first thing to die (except maybe a flyer).
Sometimes, it will also proc MD. Also, in the ETC format where you have to "Secure Objective X" etc. and board control is very important the long model with 12" movement (possible advance with sautekh) and fly is very, very comfortable scoring. If I didn't include it, I'd go for more Tesla Tomb Blades in my list, but I've played a lot of games with it (and a lot of games with 2 of them too) and I've really found there's a lot of perks, plays and tactics you can employ by just having 1.
EDIT: And to further answer your question, I've never put my characters in the Ghost Ark even in games versus 2-3 Vindicaires. I really need the MWBD and that's the entire reason I'm going 2 OLs, so I just BLoS on them, it's usually not very hard. I guess there could be a niche situation where it might be worth it, but I just haven't met it yet.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/11 18:44:26
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2019/07/11 19:34:38
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Plus the damage output in shooting is a full 10 warrior squad, which is 120 pts. So you're getting the extra movement, board control, fly, and durability, all for an extra 25 pts.
Shaelinith wrote: I know the ETC format is not very popular here, but the 2019 lists have been released and there is some necrons in some rosters. Usually Sautekh tesla spam with a Doomwing, but not always (one list has 3 Annihilation Barges).
Remember that it is a team tournament, with only one codex representation for 8 players.
It's interesting that some team decided to take necrons in the roster, and in my opinion it is here to be a counter for some list (Doomwing is scary against Castle Tau).
Saw one guy brought 3 ABs instead of the Doom Wing, I'm not a huge fan of the Doom Wing, but 3 ABs is borderline trolling, they are only 5 pts cheaper because of the Cryptek tax. Austria's list lacks the obligatory 3 Doomsday Arks and just spams FA and Troops and the now very common Doom Wing which is... interesting. I find the lack of Gauss Pylons and Seraptek Constructs as a dedicated Knight counter list to be confusing, I feel like Necrons possess the best anti-Knight counters in the game between tesla carbines and the aforementioned Titanic anti-Titanic units. 1 Seraptek, 1 Gauss Pylon and 1 Tesseract Vault would make quick work of a Knights list. One thing that confuses and annoys me is the TWO people bringing a unit of 4 Destroyers.
Check out team Greece Necrons and if you got any questions on my list go ahead and ask! It might look like a very weird list, but it is a list I've been playing and evolving since January (In January I began playing 3 DDA, 3 DS, Imotekh, 3x5 Immortals Sautekh with tb spam) and I think I can talk about it a lot! I'm very glad more countries decided to bring Necrons, especially some of the stronger ones, like USA and Germany.
One of which is you. Why not cut the Ghost Ark and fill out the Destroyers or cut something, anything. Why bring 4 Destroyers? Bring 0 or 6, this half-assed BS is so weird, and why are two teams bringing the same stupid squad of 4 Destroyers? JK btw, I just fine it curious. I think the Ghost Ark is decent but it's far less effective than a Triarch Stalker or Immortals IMO. 4 MWBD Immortals output 12 S5 hits, while a Ghost Ark outputs 7/13 S4 AP-1 hits at long/RF range. You are bringing your 3 Doomsday Arks though, so it's not slowed or anything, just a tech choice more than anything.
Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote: Plus the damage output in shooting is a full 10 warrior squad, which is 120 pts. So you're getting the extra movement, board control, fly, and durability, all for an extra 25 pts.
110, Necrons Warriors also bring CP and are Infantry and therefore benefit from our HQ's buffs. Nobody is really bringing Warriors, except maybe a squad of 20 for screening, in general it's very clear that teslamortals are by far the best troops choice we have.
2019/07/12 00:17:57
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Shaelinith wrote: I know the ETC format is not very popular here, but the 2019 lists have been released and there is some necrons in some rosters. Usually Sautekh tesla spam with a Doomwing, but not always (one list has 3 Annihilation Barges).
Remember that it is a team tournament, with only one codex representation for 8 players.
It's interesting that some team decided to take necrons in the roster, and in my opinion it is here to be a counter for some list (Doomwing is scary against Castle Tau).
Saw one guy brought 3 ABs instead of the Doom Wing, I'm not a huge fan of the Doom Wing, but 3 ABs is borderline trolling, they are only 5 pts cheaper because of the Cryptek tax. Austria's list lacks the obligatory 3 Doomsday Arks and just spams FA and Troops and the now very common Doom Wing which is... interesting. I find the lack of Gauss Pylons and Seraptek Constructs as a dedicated Knight counter list to be confusing, I feel like Necrons possess the best anti-Knight counters in the game between tesla carbines and the aforementioned Titanic anti-Titanic units. 1 Seraptek, 1 Gauss Pylon and 1 Tesseract Vault would make quick work of a Knights list. One thing that confuses and annoys me is the TWO people bringing a unit of 4 Destroyers.
In ETC Gauss Pylons and Seraptek Constructs are not allowed, as Forgeworld is not allowed. Hence the lack of forgeworld. (Even though, personally, I don't think FW works for singles necron lists, maybe in team tournaments)
I cannot speak for the person with the 3 ABs, that truly is odd, but besides that, I find all other Necron lists have merit.
I'm one of the two people who bring the 4 man destroyer squad and I know why Team USA did it too, as it was not my idea. The idea is that they are easy to hide, will probably die in return fire anyway, are perfect for alpha strike VoD (playing first against knights and teleporting the 4 man, should net you a turn 1 kill with the Big 6, even if tesla is out of range) and will roughly on average kill a Crimson Hunter Exarch (at +0, bearing in mind MWBD/MD) and a Lord Discordant. Which are 2 weaknesses the list cannot very well handle alone. ( The 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs being able to shoot an entire necron army dead in 3 turns and destroyers being the only unit that can remove some reliably, and Lord Discordant having 2+ save). They also help with Broadsides a lot.
5 is sometimes overshooting and I feel kind of reluctant to VoD turn 1 alphastrike sacrifice them. 6 Destroyers is 300pts in 1 squad and losing them hurts too much.
Check out team Greece Necrons and if you got any questions on my list go ahead and ask! It might look like a very weird list, but it is a list I've been playing and evolving since January (In January I began playing 3 DDA, 3 DS, Imotekh, 3x5 Immortals Sautekh with tb spam) and I think I can talk about it a lot! I'm very glad more countries decided to bring Necrons, especially some of the stronger ones, like USA and Germany.
One of which is you. Why not cut the Ghost Ark and fill out the Destroyers or cut something, anything. Why bring 4 Destroyers? Bring 0 or 6, this half-assed BS is so weird, and why are two teams bringing the same stupid squad of 4 Destroyers? JK btw, I just fine it curious. I think the Ghost Ark is decent but it's far less effective than a Triarch Stalker or Immortals IMO. 4 MWBD Immortals output 12 S5 hits, while a Ghost Ark outputs 7/13 S4 AP-1 hits at long/RF range. You are bringing your 3 Doomsday Arks though, so it's not slowed or anything, just a tech choice more than anything.
4 Destroyers unit is talked about above, so I'll go on about the Ghost Ark. I did try the T.Stalker and it just make my castle harder. Screening for it is bad and tiring and you can easily make mistakes. It gets tied very easily due to it lacking a base (just need 3 bois to touch its front leg). I liked having it, but it wasn't the difference between killing 1 knight first turn or not and it made screening my castle way harder. 4 Arks for 20 immortals and my jetbikes is a lot more reasonable, especially since I expect to lose 1-2 before all the deepstrikes/teleports happen. I did not get the Ghost Ark for its shooting and if it was 40 points less and did not have weapons, I might have used 2. Although, very conveniently it has AP -1 weapons, to also cover my weakness for 2+ saves. (not hugely cover, but help)
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2019/07/12 06:53:39
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In ETC Gauss Pylons and Seraptek Constructs are not allowed, as Forgeworld is not allowed. Hence the lack of forgeworld. (Even though, personally, I don't think FW works for singles necron lists, maybe in team tournaments) I cannot speak for the person with the 3 ABs, that truly is odd, but besides that, I find all other Necron lists have merit.
I'm one of the two people who bring the 4 man destroyer squad and I know why Team USA did it too, as it was not my idea. The idea is that they are easy to hide, will probably die in return fire anyway, are perfect for alpha strike VoD (playing first against knights and teleporting the 4 man, should net you a turn 1 kill with the Big 6, even if tesla is out of range) and will roughly on average kill a Crimson Hunter Exarch (at +0, bearing in mind MWBD/MD) and a Lord Discordant. Which are 2 weaknesses the list cannot very well handle alone. ( The 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs being able to shoot an entire necron army dead in 3 turns and destroyers being the only unit that can remove some reliably, and Lord Discordant having 2+ save). They also help with Broadsides a lot. 5 is sometimes overshooting and I feel kind of reluctant to VoD turn 1 alphastrike sacrifice them. 6 Destroyers is 300pts in 1 squad and losing them hurts too much.
I totally forgot about the FW ban, that's interesting. That has to hurt CSM and SM quite a lot, I think the dakka flyer AM gets is FW as well. Especially for Custodes it has a big impact, but then it probably isn't fair if beta rules get used to dominate a team tournament, especially when maybe not every country is able to field the new Custodes units.
I think your reason for fielding a unit of 4 Destroyers is extremely poor, you are spending the MWBD, VoD, HQ and Extermination Protocols anyways, the 100 pts is too good to pass up, just have them shoot something other than the Lord Discordant on Helstalker if you are worried about overkill, I'd be far more worried about underkill, especially if First Strike is a thing.
If you take 6, you can use 4 of them to pop a Crimson Hunter and the remaining two to trigger MD on another Crimson Hunter. Triggering MD can be a bit of a pain with Doomsday Arks, between rolling low on the number of shots and hitting on 6s (assuming your opponent doesn't waste LFR on the Destroyer target) you might never even trigger MD before you have nothing left to shoot with. I feel like you sound very casual about using the Veil to go up and shoot a Crimson Hunter, I personally find the Veil to be a little underwhelming against CE because of the Farseer's ability to have a unit shoot you after you veil.
I did not get the Ghost Ark for its shooting and if it was 40 points less and did not have weapons, I might have used 2.
I love the idea that you value having a big brick so much, it's too bad the Monolith can't do that job. With you using Veil aggressively with your Destroyers it makes a lot of sense that you need to screen with your Ghost Ark and it has to be one of our best units for that role so I applaud you for finding a unit that fits your playstyle but isn't widely recognized for being awesome.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/12 14:42:19
2019/07/12 09:28:06
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'm one of the two people who bring the 4 man destroyer squad and I know why Team USA did it too, as it was not my idea. The idea is that they are easy to hide, will probably die in return fire anyway, are perfect for alpha strike VoD (playing first against knights and teleporting the 4 man, should net you a turn 1 kill with the Big 6, even if tesla is out of range) and will roughly on average kill a Crimson Hunter Exarch (at +0, bearing in mind MWBD/MD) and a Lord Discordant. Which are 2 weaknesses the list cannot very well handle alone. ( The 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs being able to shoot an entire necron army dead in 3 turns and destroyers being the only unit that can remove some reliably, and Lord Discordant having 2+ save). They also help with Broadsides a lot.
5 is sometimes overshooting and I feel kind of reluctant to VoD turn 1 alphastrike sacrifice them. 6 Destroyers is 300pts in 1 squad and losing them hurts too much.
What do you consider strong and poor matchup for you list, against what are you confident ? The return necron list in multiple strong teams is not a coincidence, but i'm not sure why. In France the faction is still not considered strong enough to take a spot (even in qualifiers for the French Team they were almost no necrons if i remember correctly). Playing similar list i found it strong, but i clearly don't play at the same level that those guys so i'm curious.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/12 09:29:47
2019/07/12 12:41:34
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
In ETC Gauss Pylons and Seraptek Constructs are not allowed, as Forgeworld is not allowed. Hence the lack of forgeworld. (Even though, personally, I don't think FW works for singles necron lists, maybe in team tournaments)
I cannot speak for the person with the 3 ABs, that truly is odd, but besides that, I find all other Necron lists have merit.
I'm one of the two people who bring the 4 man destroyer squad and I know why Team USA did it too, as it was not my idea. The idea is that they are easy to hide, will probably die in return fire anyway, are perfect for alpha strike VoD (playing first against knights and teleporting the 4 man, should net you a turn 1 kill with the Big 6, even if tesla is out of range) and will roughly on average kill a Crimson Hunter Exarch (at +0, bearing in mind MWBD/MD) and a Lord Discordant. Which are 2 weaknesses the list cannot very well handle alone. ( The 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs being able to shoot an entire necron army dead in 3 turns and destroyers being the only unit that can remove some reliably, and Lord Discordant having 2+ save). They also help with Broadsides a lot.
5 is sometimes overshooting and I feel kind of reluctant to VoD turn 1 alphastrike sacrifice them. 6 Destroyers is 300pts in 1 squad and losing them hurts too much.
I totally forgot about the FW ban, that's interesting. That has to hurt CSM and SM quite a lot, I think the dakka flyer AM gets is FW as well. Especially for Custodes it has a big impact, but then it probably isn't fair if beta rules get used to dominate a team tournament, especially when maybe not every country is able to field the new Custodes units.
I think your reason for fielding a unit of 4 Destroyers is extremely poor, you are spending the MWBD, VoD, HQ and Extermination Protocols anyways, the 100 pts is too good to pass up, just have them shoot something other than the Lord Discordant on Helstalker if you are worried about overkill, I'd be far more worried about underkill, especially if First Strike is a thing.
Speaking of underkill, 4 Destroyers is too few to delete a Crimson Hunter.
*4*3/36*32/36*20/6*5*2=9,88
*12-9,88>0
*6/4*9,88=14
*12-14<0
If you take 6, you can use 5 of them to pop a Crimson Hunter and the remaining one to trigger MD on another Crimson Hunter. Triggering MD can be a bit of a pain with Doomsday Arks, between rolling low on the number of shots and hitting on 6s (assuming your opponent doesn't waste LFR on the Destroyer target) you might never even trigger MD before you have nothing left to shoot with. I feel like you sound very casual about using the Veil to go up and shoot a Crimson Hunter, I personally find the Veil to be a little underwhelming against CE because of the Farseer's ability to have a unit shoot you after you veil.
It's not a matter of right or wrong and I appreciate your view. I've thought about this for a very long time and I ended up playing a 4man destroyer unit that will be hard to ever RP and has less value from EP and I'm also running a squad of 5 TBs, which also are hard to RP, but they are the result of a lot of playtesting and mature, considerate thought. I did not understand quite what you did with your math, the math is quite simple for 4 destroyers with EP on Crimson Hunter Exarchs:
12 shots * (8/9) to hit * (3/4) to wound * (5/6) save * 2 damage = 13.333 unsaved wounds for a +0 modifier
and 12 * (2/3) * (3/4) * (5/6) * 2 = 10 unsaved wounds for a -1 modifier
The trick with the destroyers in the eldar matchup is to try and make the flyers move out of their screen (be it wave serpents, war walkers, support platforms or fireprisms/nightspinners) so that the Destroyers can VoD within 12", which some good opponents will screen for a long time. Forewarned is not a huge deal, because it needs a shooting unit within 6" of a farseer and they both need LoS to your unit. Some times, keeping the destroyers hidden for a turn and then VoDing them on the flyers is a smart choice. Though, usually you don't want to let the CHE ruin your entire army. Also, bear in mind, if the destroyers are shooting (which means they VoDed), I'm also bringing 3 flyers within 12" of the CHEs. MD proc is feasible even with the Tesla Destructors and you also get 3 Death Rays with only a -1.
The Crimson Hunter Exarch is the only flyer/thing that you need to kill in the eldar matchup as best as you can and opponents who know this can make it super hard.
What do you consider strong and poor matchup for you list, against what are you confident ? The return necron list in multiple strong teams is not a coincidence, but i'm not sure why. In France the faction is still not considered strong enough to take a spot (even in qualifiers for the French Team they were almost no necrons if i remember correctly). Playing similar list i found it strong, but i clearly don't play at the same level that those guys so i'm curious.
Eldar in general, but specifically Crimson Hunter Exarchs is a problem. Just less than 500pts (for 3 CHEs) can table my entire army in 4~ turns and I as a return have only a few solutions that a very good eldar player might not let me employ to full strength. I consider my list a very good all comers tool, it has a lot of different little things it can adopt and do in different matchups. The eldar matchup is probably the worst, at least for me, even though I've seen other Necrons do very well against them. I just find good eldar players with 3 Crimson Hunter Exarchs to be a pain in the ass. Besides that, the good matchups are orks, gsc, chaos hordes. Knights are mostly a good matchup (so triple knights that are not Taranis), especially if going first. A list with 4~ knights, Crusaders with Rapidfire cannons (no thermals) and Taranis house trait + maybe tank commanders that goes first is probably not in my favor(But that is rare, most knights list go for Triple Crusader with Thermal Cannons and I think can handle that). Going first against list that are heavy on broadsides/drones should be an auto-win just purely thanks to the flyer stratagem. Going second, trying to outrange his 36" with the flyers, not letting him kauyon and making him shoot inefficiently will also work, but it's not an auto-win. Thank god we're very good at killing drones with tesla. Lord Discordants + Mortarion + Epitome + DPs + PGBS (Geoff's list) I've lost to, but I generally feel like I have the tools to be able to deal with it. Learning how to use terrain to its absolute max is very important and, obviously, protecting flyers from the Epitome. Deathwatch can be very tricky. If it's less than 4 squads and less than 3 terminators in each squad, you can probably blow to pieces. If it's 5-6 squads and 4 terminators in each squad, things start to get difficult, although DW lacks teeth against us and going that heavy on veterans means there's not a lot of Blood Angels supporting, but it probably should be able to outscore me. DE is kind of a hard matchup depending on the DE list, I think I can handle wracks/grots. Venom spam is why MWBD/Tesla is so good, but they have the better range, more mobility and more units to score with. Tomb Blades are obviously vulnerable to Dissies, but their -1 and T5 means it takes 24 shots to kill them (them only being 5 and everything). I think I covered some of the basic, if you have more questions shoot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 12:43:15
"After Aeons of slumber the Necrotyr awakend to harvest the galaxy anew... but realizing they will never be Ultramarines, the Necrotyr descended into stasis once more."
2019/07/12 14:55:23
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
The math is quite simple for 4 destroyers with EP on Crimson Hunter Exarchs:
12 shots * (8/9) to hit * (3/4) to wound * (5/6) save * 2 damage = 13.333 unsaved wounds for a +0 modifier and 12 * (2/3) * (3/4) * (5/6) * 2 = 10 unsaved wounds for a -1 modifier
My math was off, I was thinking it was T7. I guess 4 is enough for the job you want them to do.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 14:55:45
2019/07/12 15:09:13
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
Check out team Greece Necrons and if you got any questions on my list go ahead and ask! It might look like a very weird list, but it is a list I've been playing and evolving since January (In January I began playing 3 DDA, 3 DS, Imotekh, 3x5 Immortals Sautekh with tb spam) and I think I can talk about it a lot! I'm very glad more countries decided to bring Necrons, especially some of the stronger ones, like USA and Germany.
EDIT: Attached my list for reference.
Thanks for sharing! I find your analysis fascinating.
I can totally see the use of an empty Ghost Ark for screening, and just to shut down units by ramming into them. It's also the last thing anyone wants to have to shoot at due to it's durability, but if it's going to start shutting down units in HtH, they don't have a choice!
I do find the 4 man Destroyer unit a little harder to get on board with. 6 makes more efficient use of the buffs (MWBD, VoD, EP), and overkill isn't an issue if you split fire (1 or 2 would be ideal for triggering MD on a second target). They are also very good vs Terminators, which you mention causing you trouble. However your reasoning is not without merit, and gives me something interesting to think about.
I would like to ask you (or people in general) about your Doom Scythes. I only have 2 so can't trigger the strat, but have started to use them to see what the fuss us about. Their firepower doesn't seem amazing for the points, but I've found the ability to find targets that are trying to hide very valuable.
How often do you use the ATD stratagem for them? Do you think they are worth it without that?
Also, you don't like Imotekh?
I hope you come back and let us know how you got on.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/07/12 15:17:31
2019/07/12 16:24:30
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'll be running this list in an ITC mission this afternoon. Should be funsies
Spoiler:
Sautekh Batallion
Lord w/ VOD and Staff of Light
Overlord with VoidScythe
x10 Gauss Immortals
x10 Tesla Immortals
x10 Tesla Immortals
Triarch Stalker with THGC
x6 Destroyers
Doomsday Ark
Doomsday Ark
Aux Support Detachment (Sautekh)
Seraptek Heavy Construct with Singularity Generators
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 16:53:38
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2019/07/12 21:38:52
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]
I'd been struggling with Necrons for months, then finally succumbed to using a variation on "the build". I now have reasonable games against good players and deliver thrashings against new players.
100 S5 Tesla shots
24 S7 Tesla shots
3D3 Deathray shots
3D6 Doomsday cannon shots
60 Gauss Flayer shots
The Doomscythe strategem and Immo have a "chilling effect" on enemy deployment, making the spread out their castles. So even if you never use them, they are still worthwhile.
Massive amounts of Tesla, combined with MWBD and/or MD is just brutal, and the combination of them can focus down a really tough target when you desperately need something dead.
DDAs can provide a massive wall against hordes (against which the mass-Tesla really shines), and as noted above the flyers can snipe characters quite well.
In general, your infantry is very good anti-infantry, and your vehicles are very good anti-vehicle. Their anti-vehicle will struggle against ours (-1 to hit, or quantum shielding), and our infantry is quite resilient at range.
Finally, I find often times after having used the strategem, I would have been better off just firing the death-rays at juicy targets instead, so it's a double-edged sword in that regard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/12 21:39:57
7,000 pts
4000 pts
