Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**iGuy91**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?

I somehow doubt it. *sigh*

**Red Corsair**

tneva82 wrote:
Apart from monolith turn 1 charge combo which costs a lot and isn't competive anyway what do people use deceiver's repositioning for? Just fixing deployment mistakes? Destroyers into better position? DDA? With immortals wanting cryptek and overlord nearby repositioning those isn't that feasible.

Thinking of ordering deceiver(plus 2 apoc boxes and start collecting box) so thinking what to use it for(besides mortal wounds everywhere)

In the odd game with a seraptek it is pretty critical for getting it the feth out of your deployment zone. You cannot charge it sure, but you can walk it into their army and wait for it to explode

Honestly though, it's usefulness depends entirely on how creative you need to be. But I am not sure how great it is going to be now that space marines can zone you out so damned far.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Latro_ wrote:
Thinking about doing a necrons army, cursory glance at this thread and some blogs and it appears its not a good time for metal guys?

Am i right in thinking to even survive a game in current 8th its:
3x Doom scythes
3x Doomsday arks
immo, overlords and teks
tesla immortals up the wazoo
tomb blades or destroyers

pretty much ignore the rest of the book

I am not a big fan of triple doom scythes. The investment for a gimmick that requires first turn and even then only lasts one turn is too steep IMHO. Especially with marines being updated, against primaris your really not killing that much with the strat and the tesla output is pretty bad. It's amazing how quickly the meta shifts but we quickly lost any ground we gained since the last CA.

**vict0988**

It looks like GW didn't like our infinite tesla shenanigans and so the Mephrit Stratagem is once again trash. I don't think no FAQ means new codex. Hoping for a fix for Tomb World deployment wouldn't be fair since they're so busy with SM. I'm not going to complain they still haven't reversed the idiotic ruling on Quantum Deflection working against D1.

**DogHeadGod**

If you play Doom6 (dscythes/ddas), I agree with midtable. People are wise to scythe shenanigans. If people are tooling up gor Eldar flyers, our lesser air units will be but dust in the wind before them. Doom scythes are for beating people/liats you'd gave beaten anyway, but doing so in a more trollish manner. I don't believe they are a benefit proportionate to their cost if you are up against a solid player with a meta list.

I do believe we have top table builds. I doubt the air wing is included in them.

**sieGermans**

I think the biggest nerf to their effectiveness is how useless 3d3 mortal wounds is against a min size Primaris squad (which will now feature more often in the meta).

3d3 producing an average of 6 mortal wounds was previously lethal to a min size SM squad (though no one was really running those per se). Versus a 2W Primaris, it’s only 3 dead models.

That costs you not only First Strike (or First Blood) but also any other potential plans for screen clearing, Kill Points, etc.

In fairness, this will be a similar problem for other Mortal
Wound reliant strategies, but where they can try to make up for it in volume, we have no other reliable sources for Turn 1.

**Draco765**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?

That just means that Necrons do not have any ruling issues associated with them this time around.

DogHeadGod wrote:
I do believe we have top table builds. I doubt the air wing is included in them.

Yet, for some reason, it was not until the Necron players started to use that airwing detachment that Necrons started getting a lot more visible top table placings.

**CthuluIsSpy**

vict0988 wrote:
It looks like GW didn't like our infinite tesla shenanigans and so the Mephrit Stratagem is once again trash.

Where was this change? I didn't see anything about that.

**vict0988**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
vict0988 wrote:
It looks like GW didn't like our infinite tesla shenanigans and so the Mephrit Stratagem is once again trash.

Where was this change? I didn't see anything about that.

It was the previous SM FAQ which stated that any additional hits you got from an ability on a specific hit roll (such as a 6) counted as having that same hit roll, so you counted as rolling 2 6s for every 6 you rolled, which meant if you had another ability that benefitted from rolling 6s those two abilities synergized. That was apparently only meant to apply to SM but in previous editions we were starved for FAQs so we often needed to look for precedence in the FAQs for other factions and so people took that to mean it applied to Necron Tesla as well. A literal interpretation for that ability could, with the right glasses, be taken to mean that a 6 to hit generated a 6 generated a 6 generated a 6... Infinite hits. Now the new SM FAQ changed it back to what I think most people thought of being the original rules, those additional tesla hits don't have a hit roll, they're just generic hits. That also means we get one extra hit roll for each hit roll of 6 with the Tesla/Mephrit Stratagem combo instead of 3 or infinite.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.
Yeah, the mephrit strat isn't great anymore. You can't use tesla cheese and necron weapons don't have the RoF to reliably proc it.

I hope in the next necron book we get good faction traits, because right now they suck. You can tell they want us to use faction soup, but it doesn't work because -

- Models are expensive, so if we soup we lose out on CP
- Soup is a logistical nightmare to play with, unless you don't mind your army looking like a rainbow
- Soup is boring, as you will always take units in the detachments that benefit them
- The traits still suck even in soup.

**xenoterracide**

can a ghost ark transport immortals? I'm confused because it says Warriors or CHARACTERS, the former isn't the WARRIORS tag.

**vict0988**

xenoterracide wrote:
can a ghost ark transport immortals? I'm confused because it says Warriors or CHARACTERS, the former isn't the WARRIORS tag.

No, there is no confusion. Immortals and Lychguard have never been able to enter Ghost Arks.

**Red Corsair**

I am wondering what kind of point cuts we get this year in CA

Surely they have to drop things quite a bit in response to how far the creep has gotten since last year.

I know what we need are better range bands and some core fixes to poorly designed units, but in lieu of a new book they are gonna have to drop points as a stop gap. If they lower destroyers and tomb blades things could get interesting again maybe

Sorry for the speculative posting but I feel we have kind of tread all the ground we can at the moment given what we have.

**Blndmage**

The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!

**torblind**

Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!

You could still learn to love a warrior horde, couldn't you?

**Odrankt**

Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!

It's actually very thematic to have a Lord in charge of several hundred warriors. While that Lord then serves the Overlord and such. If we become a horde army then it's warrior blobs and Ghost Arks for days.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!

I see you didn't start in 3rd ed then

Necrons should probably be like Vampire Counts, imo.
A lot of cheap, gakky units who just serve as a distraction from your real killers.
Warriors and scarabs need to be cheaper, and scarabs should be moved to troops (or no FoC slot) so you can spam them and tie enemies up.

HQ choices and Elites should be absolute powerhouses, as opposed to the wet noodles they are now.

**Red Corsair**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!

I see you didn't start in 3rd ed then

Necrons should probably be like Vampire Counts, imo.
A lot of cheap, gakky units who just serve as a distraction from your real killers.
Warriors and scarabs need to be cheaper, and scarabs should be moved to troops (or no FoC slot) so you can spam them and tie enemies up.

HQ choices and Elites should be absolute powerhouses, as opposed to the wet noodles they are now.

Yea in 3rd they were basically endless ranks of robots backed by floating castles lol.

Scarabs should always blow up in combat when they die to do 1 mortal wound to the enemy I always thought. Also they should be -1 to hit or multi damage is reduced to 1, how the feth do you shoot a swarm with a solid shot? We also should have had the translocation crypt and fight twice strat as generic. It's stupid tying teleporting in to one tombworld, necrons should be teleporting in lieu of transports. But now I am just wishlisting better ideas then GW is capable of

I guess the silver lining (nice pun right?) is being able to grab cheap as dirt second hand necron units off ebay. Just got 8 well build scythe guard and a lord for $30

They suck now, but if they right the ship I'll have them

**CthuluIsSpy**

There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.

**Blndmage**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Blndmage wrote:
The problem with nuts cuts, is that eventually that will just make us a horde army. That's not the Necrons I started!

I see you didn't start in 3rd ed then

Necrons should probably be like Vampire Counts, imo.
A lot of cheap, gakky units who just serve as a distraction from your real killers.
Warriors and scarabs need to be cheaper, and scarabs should be moved to troops (or no FoC slot) so you can spam them and tie enemies up.

HQ choices and Elites should be absolute powerhouses, as opposed to the wet noodles they are now.

I did start in 3td.
We had 3+ saves, T5 immortals, we were elite like Marines.
I love Silver Tide, but we shouldn't be chaff
Gauss made our sole troop choice effective against everything! We basically did MWs on 6s to hit with all Gauss weapons.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Oh, you mean hoard in terms of quality. I was thinking in terms of number.

Necrons were always in a weird spot where they weren't quite elite but not quite hoards.

Like, they have marine stats and are expensive points wise, but you really want to field a lot of them in order to use their gauss and We'll be Back rules.

If turning warriors into chaff (even though they sort of already are, just overpriced) or moving scarabs to troops is a no-go, introducing zombies might be a interesting alternative in filling out detachments and screening.

Remember how in 5th ed Necrons had Mind Shackle Scarabs, that got left out in later editions because everyone kept whining about how good it is (because got forbid Necrons survive in Close Combat against smash captains and the like...)?

Well, what if it returned in the form of a unit, of a bunch of poor sods that got mind shackled and turned into a hoard of mindless cannon fodder? They'd be cheap, expendable, worthless in nearly every way except to fill troop slots and screen. It would also go well with the undead theme that necrons are supposed to have going for them, which I feel is getting eroded in favor of Nobility and the like.

**JNAProductions**

Something like this?

**CthuluIsSpy**

JNAProductions wrote:
Something like this?

Yeah actually, exactly like that.

**Red Corsair**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.

Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.

**JNAProductions**

Red Corsair wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.

Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.

If that's the case, it should do something like d3 S5 AP-1 D1 hits, NOT mortal wounds.

**Eonfuzz**

Red Corsair wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.

Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.

I really, really do hate all the "cool" rules being shifted into strategems.
Why not just let the units be cool?

**tneva82**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?

Or there's not been any confusing questions to be answered. This one didn't do any balance tweaks anyway.

But hey at least necrons didn't get nerfs! Orks got couple nerfs with the update. So it could have been worse

Automatically Appended Next Post:

DogHeadGod wrote:
I do believe we have top table builds. I doubt the air wing is included in them.

Problem with this statement is currently pretty much high ranking positions DO in fact tend to include the air wing. So game evidence seems to suggest otherwise.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.

I would say rolling single 6 being able to cause literally infinite hits is not good for the game.

"Okay you rolled single 6. That explodes to infinite hits. Your warlord titan just died".

**vict0988**

tneva82 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?

Or there's not been any confusing questions to be answered. This one didn't do any balance tweaks anyway.

But hey at least necrons didn't get nerfs! Orks got couple nerfs with the update. So it could have been worse

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.

I would say rolling single 6 being able to cause literally infinite hits is not good for the game.

"Okay you rolled single 6. That explodes to infinite hits. Your warlord titan just died".

What nerfs did Orks get?

I'm pretty sure Spy was saying that he wanted the Stratagem to trigger three times for every 6 rolled with tesla weapons, nobody actually wants infinite hits on a hit roll of 6.

**tneva82**

vict0988 wrote:
What nerfs did Orks get?

I'm pretty sure Spy was saying that he wanted the Stratagem to trigger three times for every 6 rolled with tesla weapons, nobody actually wants infinite hits on a hit roll of 6.

But with the previous FAQ there were marine tricks that literally resulted in infinite hits...so if you want the 3 triggers you would have to accept infinite hits from marine things as it was direct result of that FAQ entry...

As for orks:

a) mad dok no more charges in enemy turn
b) nobz can't take power klaw+kombi weapon any more(albeit tiny issue anyway)
c) say you roll 4 and 3 for charges. You need 8"+ to charge from DS(evil sun). Super critical charge. One that you want to succeed for sure. Before you could do: Use command CP to reroll 3 hoping for 4+. But you roll 3. Drat. Well you could still have used native ork reroll ability to reroll the 4 hoping for 5+ instead. Costs CP yes but sometimes there just is such an important game deciding charge that you are willing to pay that CP to improve your odds a bit. This died in FAQ. Now you have to declare all rerolls before you roll. (also both players have to declare any rerolls they are going to do for roll offs in advance. So if you roll 3 and opponent rolls 1 do you want to reroll that 3? Cant' wait for opponent to reroll first to see)

**CthuluIsSpy**

vict0988 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
So...FAQs were released, and Necrons didn't get one. I guess that means we're getting a new codex soon?

Or there's not been any confusing questions to be answered. This one didn't do any balance tweaks anyway.

But hey at least necrons didn't get nerfs! Orks got couple nerfs with the update. So it could have been worse

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Oh well that's just crap. And counter intuitive, as you'd think you'd get the extra hits.

I would say rolling single 6 being able to cause literally infinite hits is not good for the game.

"Okay you rolled single 6. That explodes to infinite hits. Your warlord titan just died".

What nerfs did Orks get?

I'm pretty sure Spy was saying that he wanted the Stratagem to trigger three times for every 6 rolled with tesla weapons, nobody actually wants infinite hits on a hit roll of 6.

Yeah, this. I don't see how you would get infinite hits anyway, as the strat does say that the extra hits generated wouldn't proc extra hits.
This would refer to the tesla procs.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eonfuzz wrote:
Red Corsair wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
There's already a stratagem for kamikaze scarabs though. Which I thought was a nice little reference to that old rule from 2nd (?) ed.

Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.

I really, really do hate all the "cool" rules being shifted into strategems.
Why not just let the units be cool?

Yeah, its not great. What's really egregious is when you have a very useful stratagem that every faction could use being locked to a single faction. Just...why.
GW is doing stratagems all wrong. There should be few stratagems, not 2-3 pages worth of them per codex.

**Shaelinith**

Red Corsair wrote:

Sure and what I was referring to was an in built in rule. Far too many necron gear and rules have been switching into strats and relics rather then just adding flavor and utility to actual units. Scarabs should always detonate on the enemy in combat, I shouldn't need to spend limited CP and roll a random die to see if it works.

As i sniped Arhiman yesterday with a suicide Scarab, i'm not sure my opponent would be ok with that

But yeah, i hate that we lose so many features/rule being blended in stratagems. In 5th we use to have little customisation on units, but a lot of fun tricks and equipements on characters.

The worse being Tomb World that need stratagem to work (hello Agent of Vect).

I would give Tesla shenanigans and undercosted stratagems like Extermination Protocol for a pass on our units giving them back rules as innate capacity.

Dispersion shield should not be a stratagem.
Deathmark should have the Mark back.
Cryptek should have access to Eldricht Lance and some old funny equipements.
Overlords and Lord should have more customisation (Tackyon Arrow, Mindshackle Scarabs, Tesseract Labyrinth, ...) because right now they are only support characters, it's so sad. Overlord on CCB used to be scary.

I loved the weirdness of our army, right now our most unique featured don't work against good opponent and our superior tech look quite gakky.