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sieGermans wrote:

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I just watched SS82's rundown of the new CA points values, and he read the Seraptek Heavy Construct at 325 points.

Surely that can't be right

Did Acanthrites drop to 42 from 60? Including weapons?

Excluding wargear, so they still have to pay 6p for their voidblades (cutting beams are 0)

Any changes to Sentry Pylons?

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

Kahi the Uncertain wrote:
I just watched SS82's rundown of the new CA points values, and he read the Seraptek Heavy Construct at 325 points.

Surely that can't be right

Did Acanthrites drop to 42 from 60? Including weapons?

Excluding wargear, so they still have to pay 6p for their voidblades (cutting beams are 0)

So a 12 pt (20%) drop? That seems a decent drop for Marine mulchers.

They lack the invuln so they die like flies so not worth the points I think.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Heading to a team tournament tomorrow, all four of us running Necrons. Rule of three covers the entire team, so we've got four weird lists:

Warrior spam (100 warriors, Szeras, 2 Ghost Arks, Nightbringer)
Deceiver Bomb with a Pylon
Combat Crons (Lychguard, 12 Wraiths, 3 Doom Scythes)

and my list is the classic crons
Imotekh, Cryptek, Lord, 3 x 10 Tesla Immortals, 3 x DDA, 1 Triarch Stalker, 6 Destroyers, 5 Scarabs.

Not expecting to do well, but it'll be a laugh. Wish us luck.

Day 1 update:

Our team is 1-2. I'm 3-0-0, having faced Astra Militarum/Blood Angels mix, Night Lords and Raven Guard Centurion Spam. That last game was the only really strong list of the three, but I managed to kill key units and play the objectives. We've got some good guns to take marines on with, but we drop hard when they shoot back.

Warrior spam is having a bad time going 0-0-3.
Combat Crons are 1-1-1.
Weird Pylon list is also 0-0-3. Hasn't run into a single super heavy, knights seem to have dropped off hard in terms of popularity.

I'm afraid the necrons are going back into stasis after this tournament. 50% of the field is space marines, of which 60% of them are Iron Hands. Two of my teammates loses were to them and they both said they were the most boring, soul crushing games of their lives. I'm inclined to agree, though I'm pretty sure I'm facing IH tomorrow so I'll have a first hand account then.

Thanks for sharing the feedback on the tournament!

Learned bit annoying tidbit today.Melta is not 2d6 pick highest. It's 2d6 discard one. Most often not relevant but vs necrons it has impact...

Used to think it's 2d6 pick highest but sure looking at opponents codex and my sisters codex there it is in plain writing. So melta rule is flat out boost vs necrons.

tneva82 wrote:
Learned bit annoying tidbit today.Melta is not 2d6 pick highest. It's 2d6 discard one. Most often not relevant but vs necrons it has impact...

Used to think it's 2d6 pick highest but sure looking at opponents codex and my sisters codex there it is in plain writing. So melta rule is flat out boost vs necrons.

Your still making them take the low roll though which is a pretty funny defense.

tneva82 wrote:
Learned bit annoying tidbit today.Melta is not 2d6 pick highest. It's 2d6 discard one. Most often not relevant but vs necrons it has impact...

Used to think it's 2d6 pick highest but sure looking at opponents codex and my sisters codex there it is in plain writing. So melta rule is flat out boost vs necrons.

It got changed with the new SM codex, Tau still use the old version though, it's only really relevant for Sisters and Tau. A good Tau player will know to stay more than 9" away from any vehicle he wants to shoot with fusion guns while Sisters actually get a benefit from being up close (assuming they are statistically literate. I never really liked the new QS, it's a bit too trollzy for my liking, my opponents always get miffed when their guns do nothing and in turn I get miffed when my vehicles get popped rather easily by a bunch of low damage shots.

IanVanCheese wrote:
Heading to a team tournament tomorrow, all four of us running Necrons. Rule of three covers the entire team, so we've got four weird lists:

Warrior spam (100 warriors, Szeras, 2 Ghost Arks, Nightbringer)
Deceiver Bomb with a Pylon
Combat Crons (Lychguard, 12 Wraiths, 3 Doom Scythes)

and my list is the classic crons
Imotekh, Cryptek, Lord, 3 x 10 Tesla Immortals, 3 x DDA, 1 Triarch Stalker, 6 Destroyers, 5 Scarabs.

Not expecting to do well, but it'll be a laugh. Wish us luck.

Final update on this.

Our team finished 7th out of 16. Not bad for an entirely Necron force I feel. I personally went 4-0-1. I lost my fourth game to Iron Hands, but it was a close match. The mission was Cut Off The Head and he made his Leviathan a character, gave it an intel point and marched it to the objective, but it took him until turn 4 to get there. Neither of us killed any characters so he was only winning by a point in my turn 5. I veiled up to snag linebreaker for the tie hoping the game would end, but alas it wasn't to be. Still, a really cool, cerebral game. I had a shot at killing the Leviathan since it was a little damaged and didn't have the Ironstone on it so I went at it with everything, but flubbed my rolls hard.

Final game was against our buddies from our club with their Imperial team. I ended up against Grey Knights on a sparse terrain board. It did not go well for him.

Happy with my results in the end. The pylon list went 0-0-5 (we ran into precisely 0 titanic units). Silver tide list went 1-0-4, so yet more proof that doesn't work. Combat necrons went 2-1-2, including a great win vs Imperial Fists Centurion castle - the board was heavy with terrain and the guy exposed his Intel characters, allowing our guy to snipe them with Wraiths.

Proud of the team overall. If the missions and terrain are on our side, "the necron list" can compete with most armies. Iron Hands and Eldar flying circus are rough though.

Edit: pic of all four armies together here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Necrontyr/comments/e4ly9e/team_tournament_4_x_1750_points_rule_of_three/

With the new points changes I’ve decided to break my 6-model destroyer unit into two counts-as heavy destroyer units with three models each. While I know higher numbers of shots rules over higher strength weapons in this edition, the point savings was significant IMO to make the change. Longer range is a nice bonus, and the smaller squads are easier to set up in cover.

 Gnarlly wrote:
With the new points changes I’ve decided to break my 6-model destroyer unit into two counts-as heavy destroyer units with three models each. While I know higher numbers of shots rules over higher strength weapons in this edition, the point savings was significant IMO to make the change. Longer range is a nice bonus, and the smaller squads are easier to set up in cover.

I think anyone currently rocking triple Doom Scythes should consider trading them out for 9 Heavy Destroyers. More reliable firepower, spreading threats, inherent rerolls, can be buffed by our characters, not reliant on a gimmick strat and to top it off, you still have 117pts to play with.

I'm looking at taking the above list up to 2K and Heavy Destroyers seem like the obvious additions.

 Red Corsair wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Learned bit annoying tidbit today.Melta is not 2d6 pick highest. It's 2d6 discard one. Most often not relevant but vs necrons it has impact...

Used to think it's 2d6 pick highest but sure looking at opponents codex and my sisters codex there it is in plain writing. So melta rule is flat out boost vs necrons.

Your still making them take the low roll though which is a pretty funny defense.

Well yes but you still have a choice. Any time he rolls 1 and 3(or 4), 1 and 6, 5 and 3 etc he benefits from melta rule as he can drop the worse ones(sweet spot being 3 and 4).

But no wonder I hadn't seen it before if it's change with numarines. Gee thanks GW for not having consistent weapon rules. Bloody bespoke rules.

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Learned bit annoying tidbit today.Melta is not 2d6 pick highest. It's 2d6 discard one. Most often not relevant but vs necrons it has impact...

Used to think it's 2d6 pick highest but sure looking at opponents codex and my sisters codex there it is in plain writing. So melta rule is flat out boost vs necrons.

Your still making them take the low roll though which is a pretty funny defense.

Well yes but you still have a choice. Any time he rolls 1 and 3(or 4), 1 and 6, 5 and 3 etc he benefits from melta rule as he can drop the worse ones(sweet spot being 3 and 4).

But no wonder I hadn't seen it before if it's change with numarines. Gee thanks GW for not having consistent weapon rules. Bloody bespoke rules.

Remember what Andykip said: USR are too confusing and we don't need consistency!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Learned bit annoying tidbit today.Melta is not 2d6 pick highest. It's 2d6 discard one. Most often not relevant but vs necrons it has impact...

Used to think it's 2d6 pick highest but sure looking at opponents codex and my sisters codex there it is in plain writing. So melta rule is flat out boost vs necrons.

Your still making them take the low roll though which is a pretty funny defense.

Well yes but you still have a choice. Any time he rolls 1 and 3(or 4), 1 and 6, 5 and 3 etc he benefits from melta rule as he can drop the worse ones(sweet spot being 3 and 4).

But no wonder I hadn't seen it before if it's change with numarines. Gee thanks GW for not having consistent weapon rules. Bloody bespoke rules.

Remember what Andykip said: USR are too confusing and we don't need consistency!

This is actually a USR complaint: anytime you have USRs in a game as complex as this one, there will be inconsistent behaviors that arise--in particular when attempts at improvements are made (e.g., being allowed a choice as to which dice to keep changed from being forced to select a suboptimal 'choice').

This particular issue is less a USR/bespoke rules problem and more of a QC problem... setting aside how reasonably practical it is to 100% QC all the thousands of rules there are in this game.

Are Heavy Destroyers now useful for anti-tank? Comparing them to the Doomsday Ark, they seem more reliable, but don't have the Gauss Array. On the plus side, they have better manoeuvrability.

Darsath wrote:
Are Heavy Destroyers now useful for anti-tank? Comparing them to the Doomsday Ark, they seem more reliable, but don't have the Gauss Array. On the plus side, they have better manoeuvrability.

Think of them as a replacement for the Doom Scythe, not the DDA. DDA is so flexible and quite hard to kill, Doom Scythe is inflexible and basically has one party trick that everyone knows to avoid.

I'm looking at cranking my 1750 pts list up to 2000 pts and adding 6 Heavy Destroyers seems like the obvious play. Given that the current meta is Iron Hands Tank/Flyer Spam, Eldar Flyer Spam or Raven Guard/Imperial Fist Centurion Spam - I think that Heavy Destroyers have finally come good. Just need to convert some up now. There's a great guide here for anyone looking to avoid the bendy finecast noodle guns: https://weemen.blogspot.com/2016/09/necron-heavy-gauss-cannon-conversion.html

I've seen that Conversion! It's brilliant and doesn't take much effort either.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I've seen that Conversion! It's brilliant and doesn't take much effort either.

Agreed though I'd add one more gauss section...cause bigger is always better!

IanVanCheese wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Are Heavy Destroyers now useful for anti-tank? Comparing them to the Doomsday Ark, they seem more reliable, but don't have the Gauss Array. On the plus side, they have better manoeuvrability.

Think of them as a replacement for the Doom Scythe, not the DDA. DDA is so flexible and quite hard to kill, Doom Scythe is inflexible and basically has one party trick that everyone knows to avoid.

what is this party trick?

also, question about quantum shielding, when I attempt to roll lower than D3 damage, do I attempt to roll lower than the damage, or the dice roll? e.g a 4 is 2 damage, so, do I need a 3 or a 1?

xenoterracide wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Are Heavy Destroyers now useful for anti-tank? Comparing them to the Doomsday Ark, they seem more reliable, but don't have the Gauss Array. On the plus side, they have better manoeuvrability.

Think of them as a replacement for the Doom Scythe, not the DDA. DDA is so flexible and quite hard to kill, Doom Scythe is inflexible and basically has one party trick that everyone knows to avoid.

what is this party trick?

also, question about quantum shielding, when I attempt to roll lower than D3 damage, do I attempt to roll lower than the damage, or the dice roll? e.g a 4 is 2 damage, so, do I need a 3 or a 1?

The party trick is their Amalgamated Targeting Data stratagem, but it requires three Doom Scythes to pull it off so most enemies will just kill one first turn.

As to Quantum Shielding, you have to roll under the damage. So a 4 on D3 damage is 2 damage, so you need to roll a 1.

Well, what do ya' know? Should help a lot.

sieGermans wrote:

This is actually a USR complaint: anytime you have USRs in a game as complex as this one, there will be inconsistent behaviors that arise--in particular when attempts at improvements are made (e.g., being allowed a choice as to which dice to keep changed from being forced to select a suboptimal 'choice').

This particular issue is less a USR/bespoke rules problem and more of a QC problem... setting aside how reasonably practical it is to 100% QC all the thousands of rules there are in this game.

With USR this would not have happened. This happens exactly because LACK of USR's. And is precisely what I predicted would happen when GW introduced these bespoke rules. Quaranteed that something like this happens. So now we have marine and sister melta's that are benefits vs quantum, others that are drawback. All thanks to bespoke rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I've seen that Conversion! It's brilliant and doesn't take much effort either.

Too bad there's not much tomb blade bits available in bitz stores. Just full sprues. I don't have spare tomb blade gauss weapons.

IanVanCheese wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Are Heavy Destroyers now useful for anti-tank? Comparing them to the Doomsday Ark, they seem more reliable, but don't have the Gauss Array. On the plus side, they have better manoeuvrability.

Think of them as a replacement for the Doom Scythe, not the DDA. DDA is so flexible and quite hard to kill, Doom Scythe is inflexible and basically has one party trick that everyone knows to avoid.

I'm looking at cranking my 1750 pts list up to 2000 pts and adding 6 Heavy Destroyers seems like the obvious play. Given that the current meta is Iron Hands Tank/Flyer Spam, Eldar Flyer Spam or Raven Guard/Imperial Fist Centurion Spam - I think that Heavy Destroyers have finally come good. Just need to convert some up now. There's a great guide here for anyone looking to avoid the bendy finecast noodle guns: https://weemen.blogspot.com/2016/09/necron-heavy-gauss-cannon-conversion.html

I have had 9 Destroyer bodies laying around waiting for their time to be upgraded to Heavy Destroyers, I don't have any HGC bits so I'll probably do this. I hope I haven't used too many of my TB's gauss weapons.

 vict0988 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Are Heavy Destroyers now useful for anti-tank? Comparing them to the Doomsday Ark, they seem more reliable, but don't have the Gauss Array. On the plus side, they have better manoeuvrability.

Think of them as a replacement for the Doom Scythe, not the DDA. DDA is so flexible and quite hard to kill, Doom Scythe is inflexible and basically has one party trick that everyone knows to avoid.

I'm looking at cranking my 1750 pts list up to 2000 pts and adding 6 Heavy Destroyers seems like the obvious play. Given that the current meta is Iron Hands Tank/Flyer Spam, Eldar Flyer Spam or Raven Guard/Imperial Fist Centurion Spam - I think that Heavy Destroyers have finally come good. Just need to convert some up now. There's a great guide here for anyone looking to avoid the bendy finecast noodle guns: https://weemen.blogspot.com/2016/09/necron-heavy-gauss-cannon-conversion.html

I have had 9 Destroyer bodies laying around waiting for their time to be upgraded to Heavy Destroyers, I don't have any HGC bits so I'll probably do this. I hope I haven't used too many of my TB's gauss weapons.

Get them form the immortal kit.

If you build 10 Tesla immortals, you have 10 left over gauss weapons.

It's also one of the cheapest kits for us.

( It's also a great resource for Necrons hands, should you need them )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is what mine looks like:

torblind wrote:

 vict0988 wrote:

IanVanCheese wrote:

Darsath wrote:
Are Heavy Destroyers now useful for anti-tank? Comparing them to the Doomsday Ark, they seem more reliable, but don't have the Gauss Array. On the plus side, they have better manoeuvrability.

Think of them as a replacement for the Doom Scythe, not the DDA. DDA is so flexible and quite hard to kill, Doom Scythe is inflexible and basically has one party trick that everyone knows to avoid.

I'm looking at cranking my 1750 pts list up to 2000 pts and adding 6 Heavy Destroyers seems like the obvious play. Given that the current meta is Iron Hands Tank/Flyer Spam, Eldar Flyer Spam or Raven Guard/Imperial Fist Centurion Spam - I think that Heavy Destroyers have finally come good. Just need to convert some up now. There's a great guide here for anyone looking to avoid the bendy finecast noodle guns: https://weemen.blogspot.com/2016/09/necron-heavy-gauss-cannon-conversion.html

I have had 9 Destroyer bodies laying around waiting for their time to be upgraded to Heavy Destroyers, I don't have any HGC bits so I'll probably do this. I hope I haven't used too many of my TB's gauss weapons.

Get them form the immortal kit.

If you build 10 Tesla immortals, you have 10 left over gauss weapons.

It's also one of the cheapest kits for us.

( It's also a great resource for Necrons hands, should you need them )


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This is what mine looks like:

Looks great. I'm going to do this, but double stack them to make the gun look really beefy. I'll post pics when/if it works out.

I would suggest a 2x2 of Immortal Gauss guns to better simulate the HGC from the Stalker kit.

tneva82 wrote:

sieGermans wrote:

This is actually a USR complaint: anytime you have USRs in a game as complex as this one, there will be inconsistent behaviors that arise--in particular when attempts at improvements are made (e.g., being allowed a choice as to which dice to keep changed from being forced to select a suboptimal 'choice').

This particular issue is less a USR/bespoke rules problem and more of a QC problem... setting aside how reasonably practical it is to 100% QC all the thousands of rules there are in this game.

With USR this would not have happened. This happens exactly because LACK of USR's. And is precisely what I predicted would happen when GW introduced these bespoke rules. Quaranteed that something like this happens. So now we have marine and sister melta's that are benefits vs quantum, others that are drawback. All thanks to bespoke rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I've seen that Conversion! It's brilliant and doesn't take much effort either.

Too bad there's not much tomb blade bits available in bitz stores. Just full sprues. I don't have spare tomb blade gauss weapons.

Well if you put together a couple of Tesla ones you would have spare parts.

I have been toying with the idea of more Destroyers for a while now.....

this might be the time

EDIT: Just for the record also, the actual HGC from the Stalker kit fits onto a Destroyer with minimal shaping of the rear plug to go into the shoulder socket.
I personally then put the other arm across to hold the front plug missile launcher style, but YMMV

Worth trying if you have the bits left over

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Well if you put together a couple of Tesla ones you would have spare parts.

I have all weapons for tomb blades. For starters allows to finetune for plan. For second eventually gw will change balance making gauss king and tesla junk