Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**Dynas**

Are sword and board lychguard worth taking in this marine meta. Novokh seems to be the best dynasty for them. Basically like Primaris, T5, with a 4++ invul so all the AP stacking from bolters wont really matter.

Use them to lock down center field hide out of LoS. Thoughts?

**tneva82**

ballzonya wrote:
Hello Necron peeps!! I just joined the ranks bought the outrider detachment box.

my question is what are some must buy units?

how should I build that box? I was thinking of not making the ghost ark as a ghost ark?

how was chapter approved for us?

thanks dakka users

I would recommend not doing ghost ark. While it's not anymore worst(though funny enough you don't want any warriors for it to repair. Just use it as gunboat) the dda serves very important function. Anti tank. Necron's have very little good AT in the codex. Doomsday ark, destroyers and (now) heavy destroyers(both which are bit of a glass cannon I find. They are so deadly enemy doesn't ignore them so they die once they have exposed themselves to shoot) and...ummm that's about it. Forge world has pylon(which has it's own issues) and tesseract arcs(sort of more mobile and tougher doomsday ark with bit less of oomph on the main gun vs T8 targets). So basically you pretty much NEED dda's to your army. There's reason they are so popular and it's not that dda is brokenly good. It's because it's one of the few actually good AT units we have.

Later can consider magnetizing though I would take 2 dda's and only consider for 3rd magnetizing. Can't see list where you have ghost arks but no doomsday arks. Other way I can see.

**sieGermans**

Dynas wrote:
Are sword and board lychguard worth taking in this marine meta. Novokh seems to be the best dynasty for them. Basically like Primaris, T5, with a 4++ invul so all the AP stacking from bolters wont really matter.

Use them to lock down center field hide out of LoS. Thoughts?

Praetorians are better and cheaper.

**tneva82**

Cheaper yes, better is depatable. Quite soft so they won't survive any serious firepower, most/all buffs work on them, no code bonuses...

**Slayer-Fan123**

tneva82 wrote:
Cheaper yes, better is depatable. Quite soft so they won't survive any serious firepower, most/all buffs work on them, no code bonuses...

Still only 11 points per T5 3+ wound.

**IHateNids**

Sword & Board lychguard are basically analogous to Sword & Shield Custodian Guard (comparable price)

That is, they have their place, but suffer greatly from lacking in other areas. Namely, they have the issue with all Necron units that they cant mix weapons... having 6/4 Scythes/Shields would make it immeasurably better

**Pyrothem**

If you are using S&B Lytchguard you have to have a way to deliver them. The two transportation vehicles blow, C'Tan can not do it for them without spending too much in named HQ's and not in Nov Dynasty. So that leaves your one use Cloak of Darkness and even with My will be Done on them your about 50 of the time going to be stuck wasting your turn.

In a fluffy game go for it and enjoy but if it is a game were both of you are trying to win they don't have a place in a list.

I am sad about that as they are my favorite model.

**Odrankt**

Hey guys, haven't posted in a while but with CA19 releasing and Battlescribe updating I have been mad busy making lists. I even delete my Battlescribe and re-installed it as I had list bloat.

Anyway, I'm currently working on 2 lists. Both are a Battalion and both feature a skyshield landing pad. Only difference is that one lost contains 5 Destroyers and the other contains an extra Triarch stalker and DDA. I'm not sure which is better and just wondering what you guys think before I go to any tournaments starting next year.

Spoiler:

Idea for the list is that; Overlord MWBD and VoDs the Tesla Immortals, Cryptek 2 TBs act as a "squad", 2 Ghost Arks move up aggressively onto objectives and bait my opponent to shoot into them instead of something else 10-20 S4 -1/2 x2 isn't anything to laugh at in your face turn 2-3. DDAs stay on the Skyshield for 5++ making them basically Tarks interms of survivability. Skyshield is also something to soak some wounds. And Stalker provides re-rolling 1s to hit.

If I bring an extra stalker and DDA its obviously more anti tank but also more rr1s to hit and more Gauss arrays if needed later in the game. While the Destroyers are great for MeQs and general Marine meta and have good synergy with their Stratagem.

**tneva82**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Cheaper yes, better is depatable. Quite soft so they won't survive any serious firepower, most/all buffs work on them, no code bonuses...

Still only 11 points per T5 3+ wound.

Yes but that's not particularly tough. As I said. Quite soft. They die very fast with all the multi damage -2 good rate of fire shots around. Until meta changes dramatically they will be vaporized before getting to close combat so what they will do while alive? Not closecombat so need to do something else. No good guns so not that either. So you are basically taking them to draw firepower away from actual threat. That's the only role they have.

Also the W2 in stat line isn't all that impressive. Hopefully you don't claim it's as good as two models with 1W each because they are not. Lot softer than that.

**sieGermans**

tneva82 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Cheaper yes, better is depatable. Quite soft so they won't survive any serious firepower, most/all buffs work on them, no code bonuses...

Still only 11 points per T5 3+ wound.

Yes but that's not particularly tough. As I said. Quite soft. They die very fast with all the multi damage -2 good rate of fire shots around. Until meta changes dramatically they will be vaporized before getting to close combat so what they will do while alive? Not closecombat so need to do something else. No good guns so not that either. So you are basically taking them to draw firepower away from actual threat. That's the only role they have.

Also the W2 in stat line isn't all that impressive. Hopefully you don't claim it's as good as two models with 1W each because they are not. Lot softer than that.

4++ is not going to save you from high VoF incoming fire, though. It’s so low a save (50%) it’s meant for low VoF, high dog/AP Fire.

**p5freak**

sieGermans wrote:
Dynas wrote:
Are sword and board lychguard worth taking in this marine meta. Novokh seems to be the best dynasty for them. Basically like Primaris, T5, with a 4++ invul so all the AP stacking from bolters wont really matter.

Use them to lock down center field hide out of LoS. Thoughts?

Praetorians are better and cheaper.

Wraith are the best overall choice. They move 12", can charge after advancing for 1CP, 3++, get dynasty codes, have 3 attacks per model, S6 AP-2 D2 damage, have a similar rule like FLY, but not the FLY keyword, they dont trigger any abilities which give +1 to hit with FLY. If i wanted to run a necron melee army i would go with 3x6 wraith with particle casters and novokh dynasty. If you play them as nihilakh and park them on an objective marker you can give them 2++.

**tneva82**

sieGermans wrote:
4++ is not going to save you from high VoF incoming fire, though. It’s so low a save (50%) it’s meant for low VoF, high dog/AP Fire.

It will cut casualties by 25% against oh so numerous -2 D2 good ROF type of weapons that are so common. You get 4++, praetorian get 5+. Splat splat splat. Not to mention you can go to 3++ halving the casualties.

And while you still might die before getting into combat(100% identical to praetorian) at least you serve some function in the meanwhile protecting your characters. Praetorians don't do even that.

**Dynas**

sieGermans wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Cheaper yes, better is depatable. Quite soft so they won't survive any serious firepower, most/all buffs work on them, no code bonuses...

Still only 11 points per T5 3+ wound.

Yes but that's not particularly tough. As I said. Quite soft. They die very fast with all the multi damage -2 good rate of fire shots around. Until meta changes dramatically they will be vaporized before getting to close combat so what they will do while alive? Not closecombat so need to do something else. No good guns so not that either. So you are basically taking them to draw firepower away from actual threat. That's the only role they have.

Also the W2 in stat line isn't all that impressive. Hopefully you don't claim it's as good as two models with 1W each because they are not. Lot softer than that.

4++ is not going to save you from high VoF incoming fire, though. It’s so low a save (50%) it’s meant for low VoF, high dog/AP Fire.

Cant you buff it to 3++ with the stratagem. What about using Veil of Darkness on them. Or dare I say a monolith. Move the monolith up and then you can TP them in, would have to be a 2nd turn thing though. Just thinking out loud, see what other options might be viable with CA out. Always good to go back and look at stuff again.

**sieGermans**

Dynas wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Cheaper yes, better is depatable. Quite soft so they won't survive any serious firepower, most/all buffs work on them, no code bonuses...

Still only 11 points per T5 3+ wound.

Yes but that's not particularly tough. As I said. Quite soft. They die very fast with all the multi damage -2 good rate of fire shots around. Until meta changes dramatically they will be vaporized before getting to close combat so what they will do while alive? Not closecombat so need to do something else. No good guns so not that either. So you are basically taking them to draw firepower away from actual threat. That's the only role they have.

Also the W2 in stat line isn't all that impressive. Hopefully you don't claim it's as good as two models with 1W each because they are not. Lot softer than that.

4++ is not going to save you from high VoF incoming fire, though. It’s so low a save (50%) it’s meant for low VoF, high dog/AP Fire.

Cant you buff it to 3++ with the stratagem. What about using Veil of Darkness on them. Or dare I say a monolith. Move the monolith up and then you can TP them in, would have to be a 2nd turn thing though. Just thinking out loud, see what other options might be viable with CA out. Always good to go back and look at stuff again.

You can do all of those things, yes. But point for point, 5 Praetorians versus 5 Lychguard, you’re paying less for Praetorians for effectively the same save and lethality (actually getting more due to shooting).

If you lean into the Lychguard more with other enabling synergies (like CP expenditure, of which we don’t have a ton, or Monoliths (!!expensive)) then that’s a different question.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Except the Praetorians don't need all that support because of the already higher mobility. That's why I place them right behind Wraiths and Scarabs.

**sieGermans**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Except the Praetorians don't need all that support because of the already higher mobility. That's why I place them right behind Wraiths and Scarabs.

I agree.

**tneva82**

sieGermans wrote:
You can do all of those things, yes. But point for point, 5 Praetorians versus 5 Lychguard, you’re paying less for Praetorians for effectively the same save and lethality (actually getting more due to shooting).
.

I would say getting 25% less casualties from shooting(4++ vs 5+ against most stuff you will face) is hardly effectively same save.

Lethality is pretty much same. None. Neither will be reaching anywhere unless you veil them maybe and have 3++ around. Dead praetorian ain't shooting anything.

**JNAProductions**

Is it 25% less per point, though?

Guardsmen aren’t durable because their stat line is good, it’s because they’re 4 PPM.

**Slayer-Fan123**

JNAProductions wrote:
Is it 25% less per point, though?

Guardsmen aren’t durable because their stat line is good, it’s because they’re 4 PPM.

Exactly. Outside the D2 stuff (sure it happens, granted), Praetorians have very efficient wounds per model for the army. They aren't gonna dominate anything but I'd for sure take them before Lychguard and Flayed Ones, both of which require too much support to do any so called "work".

**T1nk4bell**

Well the point is movement 10 and fly and morale immun.
They can act lonely and I think they are well pointed now.
No op unit just solid for points

They are like a primaris intercessor with t5 and Reanimation and fly and fast move and str 5.
The Statline is pretty well for the points.

**hellpato**

After a few years on 8th ed and 9 coming up, does the Necron Canoptek Tomb Stalker/sentinel are worth using or is just good to have a big monster on the table just for fun?

**sieGermans**

hellpato wrote:
After a few years on 8th ed and 9 coming up, does the Necron Canoptek Tomb Stalker/sentinel are worth using or is just good to have a big monster on the table just for fun?

I’ve been playing the Stalker a ton in a casual league for the last 3 months.

It’s awful, both for the points and in general. Its T7 is no better than T5 versus anything aside from Autocannons, it is non-lethal against anything other than MEQ, and it’s save is quickly negated by anything that shoots at it with true lethal intent.

Meanwhile the Sentinel must deep strike in order to be effective (opening it up to auspex and reaper OOT fire), and it’s gun will not kill anything in 1 turn of shooting so prepare for it to be rapid fire shot at in return. It has the same vulnerabilities as the Stalker. All in all, though half the points of a DDA, it’s only about 1/4 as effective.

It’s a gorgeous model and super fluffy though—very fun to pose and paint! In casual games they are a great way to tone down your list while still playing something that might accomplish something.

**T1nk4bell**

Ehm no?
T7 is better against every single s3, s5, s6 and s7 than t5?
How you have the idea that it just can be auto kannon?

**sieGermans**

T1nk4bell wrote:
Ehm no?
T7 is better against every single s3, s5, s6 and s7 than t5?
How you have the idea that it just can be auto kannon?

Sure, there are tons of (pushes glasses up nose) differences between all the different Toughness values.

But in terms of the meta, the most common Strength shots coming out of SM, CSM, Eldar/etc. Are Str 4, Str 6, Str 8, and Str 9.

Of these, S4 is wounding on 5s regardless of T5 or T7.
S8 and S9 are sounding on 3s regardless.

Are there other guns? Of course. There’s T’au Firewarrior S5, there’s AM at S3, etc.

And even so! The overall point that the Stalker/Sentinel is not particularly survivable, and isn’t better than other cheaper options isn’t incorrect either!

For the same number of points you get 5 Praetorians who have more shots (5 v. 2d3 at 12”), more attacks (10), and more wounds (10), move farther and have greater limited synergy with non-Faction specific HQs.

I still repeat, though, that they are lovely models and super fun to bring to the table.

**T1nk4bell**

Totaly agree that the sentinel isn't good!
But there are tons of s5 weapons out there in the meta, onslaught, or what about tons of heavy bolters from Imp fists and so on.
T7 is a big difference in the meta to t5.
That changes nothing that the sentinel is crappy :8

**hellpato**

sieGermans wrote:
T1nk4bell wrote:
Ehm no?
T7 is better against every single s3, s5, s6 and s7 than t5?
How you have the idea that it just can be auto kannon?

Sure, there are tons of (pushes glasses up nose) differences between all the different Toughness values.

But in terms of the meta, the most common Strength shots coming out of SM, CSM, Eldar/etc. Are Str 4, Str 6, Str 8, and Str 9.

Of these, S4 is wounding on 5s regardless of T5 or T7.
S8 and S9 are sounding on 3s regardless.

Are there other guns? Of course. There’s T’au Firewarrior S5, there’s AM at S3, etc.

And even so! The overall point that the Stalker/Sentinel is not particularly survivable, and isn’t better than other cheaper options isn’t incorrect either!

For the same number of points you get 5 Praetorians who have more shots (5 v. 2d3 at 12”), more attacks (10), and more wounds (10), move farther and have greater limited synergy with non-Faction specific HQs.

I still repeat, though, that they are lovely models and super fun to bring to the table.

Even if you said they are not good in comparison of other units, if the fun factor (paint and playing) is there, i will buy some and do some shenanigan (and my love for the underdogs and trying winning with something people said : dont use it).

**demonwalker**

So I just decided to skim this to see if there are any good Necron tactics that might make me want to play them again, and now i'm curious on a few things (Please bare with me, I haven't gotten to play in over a year, and it's been longer since I touched Necrons).

DDA are good? I had it in my head once the codex dropped that they were slightly overcosted for a unit that couldn't move. I was taking instead for my Anti Tank 3 squads of Destroyers with a single Heavy in each. I also was just using VOF from other units to take more worrying ones down. Should I actually go out and buy some DDA then?

And are TB any good still? I remember running 6 man squads with Gauss, Shadowlooms, and Shieldvanes.

I'm also seeing a lot of QS being stated as really good, but I know in my meta everyone would use D2 or D3 weapons, so I rarely actually got my QS save. I take it my meta is just a one off then?

I don't see anyone saying anything about the Voltaic Staff, so I guess it's a crappy Relic? I was taking it on my Destroyer Lord and it worked out okay.

Now I don't even know what to take anymore. Anyone know a good spot I can relearn what in my book is actually good and what isn't?

**tneva82**

demonwalker wrote:

DDA are good? I had it in my head once the codex dropped that they were slightly overcosted for a unit that couldn't move. I was taking instead for my Anti Tank 3 squads of Destroyers with a single Heavy in each. I also was just using VOF from other units to take more worrying ones down. Should I actually go out and buy some DDA then?

They are staple of necron at. There's reason about all competive lists run 3.

For destroyers max squad sizes to maximize stratagem. For h.destroyers own squads better to utilize greater range.

I'm thinkinj overlordx2, cryptek, 30 immortal, 6 destryoers, 3xdda, 3x3 heavy destroyer myself.

Just 2x3 destroyers won't be enough at. Not even if you don't dilute by splitting. 2x3 less at than 1x6

**Merkabah**

demonwalker wrote:
So I just decided to skim this to see if there are any good Necron tactics that might make me want to play them again, and now i'm curious on a few things (Please bare with me, I haven't gotten to play in over a year, and it's been longer since I touched Necrons).

DDA are good? I had it in my head once the codex dropped that they were slightly overcosted for a unit that couldn't move. I was taking instead for my Anti Tank 3 squads of Destroyers with a single Heavy in each. I also was just using VOF from other units to take more worrying ones down. Should I actually go out and buy some DDA then?

And are TB any good still? I remember running 6 man squads with Gauss, Shadowlooms, and Shieldvanes.

I'm also seeing a lot of QS being stated as really good, but I know in my meta everyone would use D2 or D3 weapons, so I rarely actually got my QS save. I take it my meta is just a one off then?

I don't see anyone saying anything about the Voltaic Staff, so I guess it's a crappy Relic? I was taking it on my Destroyer Lord and it worked out okay.

Now I don't even know what to take anymore. Anyone know a good spot I can relearn what in my book is actually good and what isn't?

DDA are amazing for 160 points. I think they costed significantly more when the codex dropped. Their big gun is ok, and frankly our only real AT until CA2019, but between the flayers, fly keyword, respectable durability and the size of the model they are useful in any number of situations and a big reason horde armies cant just roll over us. Got a swarm of orks? let them chew on a DDA for a turn or three while they eat flayer and tesla shots.

TB are still amazing. I think Gauss TB got a bit of a buff because they pair well with the deceiver and he got a major buff. Though that might just be me. I always preferred Gauss on my TB and tesla on my immortals.

I think mass QS is probably pretty bad right now. Marines are packing a lot of 2-3 damage 1-2 AP guns that tear through QS pretty good. And since they are all the hotness right now and they are weak to the same kind of shots every other army will probably pack as much of that kind of damage profile as they can.

Can't talk much about the staff. Honestly never took that one. We only have 1 good relic and 2 situationally good ones. looking at it again it gets a solid meh from me.

It's kind of an exciting time for us Overlords. CA19 changed a lot of stuff. There were a lot of things that were kinda maybe on the brink of being good that got a points drop that may have pushed it over the finish line. Nobody is quite sure what to make of it right yet I don't think. Things I would watch would be heavy destroyers, C'tan-especially the deceiver, stalkers, wraiths and maybe ghost arks. With the drop in some of our support stuff and HQs immortal and infantry heavy lists may be more viable. warriors are still prety bad I think though. I don't think flayed ones, lichguard or praetorians got a big enough cut to overcome their issues. But that's just a guess really. All of this is. just my own quick take and will probably be proven wrong shortly. so, you know, all the grains of salt

**Dynas**

sieGermans wrote:
Dynas wrote:
sieGermans wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
Cheaper yes, better is depatable. Quite soft so they won't survive any serious firepower, most/all buffs work on them, no code bonuses...

Still only 11 points per T5 3+ wound.

Yes but that's not particularly tough. As I said. Quite soft. They die very fast with all the multi damage -2 good rate of fire shots around. Until meta changes dramatically they will be vaporized before getting to close combat so what they will do while alive? Not closecombat so need to do something else. No good guns so not that either. So you are basically taking them to draw firepower away from actual threat. That's the only role they have.

Also the W2 in stat line isn't all that impressive. Hopefully you don't claim it's as good as two models with 1W each because they are not. Lot softer than that.

4++ is not going to save you from high VoF incoming fire, though. It’s so low a save (50%) it’s meant for low VoF, high dog/AP Fire.

Cant you buff it to 3++ with the stratagem. What about using Veil of Darkness on them. Or dare I say a monolith. Move the monolith up and then you can TP them in, would have to be a 2nd turn thing though. Just thinking out loud, see what other options might be viable with CA out. Always good to go back and look at stuff again.

You can do all of those things, yes. But point for point, 5 Praetorians versus 5 Lychguard, you’re paying less for Praetorians for effectively the same save and lethality (actually getting more due to shooting).

If you lean into the Lychguard more with other enabling synergies (like CP expenditure, of which we don’t have a ton, or Monoliths (!!expensive)) then that’s a different question.

It the survivablity, not the lethality that is key. The invul is a must against marine AP bolter spam.