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tneva82 wrote:
and what terrain that is? I went through existing fortifications and they shoot at closest units with automated weapons. New marine bunker? Heavy bolters and heavy flamers have that rule but heavy flamer is shorter range and still just flamer and heavy bolters are not death rays either.

I thought it was meltas, not flamers so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 gkos wrote:
Just had to pipe in, I'm a BA player. Please don't hold that against me, back when I started with RT there was not as much choice!

Having introduced my son to the game he plays Necrons and I am super happy about what is going on with the faction at the moment.

I would really like monoliths to be good, I would personally like them to be able to join up and do super shots like they do in the fluff, but I think seeing three monoliths on the field is unlikely :(

They also should be robust mechanisms for spewing troops onto the field, this is another thing that monoliths "should" do but has never really been viable.

Anyhow, sorry for the ramble, but you guys should be pleased that you are in a good place at the moment, and Necrons are always fun to play against, especially when you suddenly veil a load of nasty killing into the oppos face!

Its fine and you are right necrons are in a really good place, if GW make the monolith and Obelisk I will be very happy.

I miss the days when the monolith was the ultimate way to redeploy our troops

The original Gauss Flux Arcs did d6 hits to all enemy units in range. Shifting back in that direction, the Monolith being a crackling brick of living metal that inexorably, ominously, silently, makes its way across the battle, teleporting squads of Necrons from all over the field through its portal, renewing them to fight on. It's partial whip cracking not just with sound and light, but rending the fabric of reality like a wet paper bag. A pinpoint onf unimaginable energy, obliterating anything it hits.

 Blndmage wrote:
The original Gauss Flux Arcs did d6 hits to all enemy units in range. Shifting back in that direction, the Monolith being a crackling brick of living metal that inexorably, ominously, silently, makes its way across the battle, teleporting squads of Necrons from all over the field through its portal, renewing them to fight on. It's partial whip cracking not just with sound and light, but rending the fabric of reality like a wet paper bag. A pinpoint onf unimaginable energy, obliterating anything it hits.

Those were the days, I used to target my opponents str8+ weapons and then have my metal box march up the board with its AV14 impervious to damage

So we gonna switch to a 9e thread? Especially considering we actually have new minis and new rules to discuss not just how our current rules do in the new edition.

 Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll wrote:
So we gonna switch to a 9e thread? Especially considering we actually have new minis and new rules to discuss not just how our current rules do in the new edition.

We still don't have a codex. I don't see the point in a 9th edition thread when we don't have the full picture of what 9th edition Necrons even are, at the moment.

I figure people are waiting for the book to drop so that the first 30pages aren't just wishlisting coupled to a few unit stat leaks that are lacking in full details and which don't have the backup of the rest of the book/army to give them context.

Played tournament on saturday. Couple things I came across.

Destroyers. I'm falling out of love with these. Firepower is okay but with 24" range they basically die after doing their job. With higher price it's getting pretty hard to gain enough. Need to basically wipe out 300 pts+´worth unit or gain ttactical gain enough to compensate.

Deploy scramblers secondary fast becoming one I like. It caps at 10 but fairly easy one if you have sacrificial unit and veil of darkness.

While we stand we fight has been surprisingly good one so far.

Ragnar is pure PITA. Especially if you can't get nihilikh wraiths around

Other necron player ran 9 tesla tomb blades in mephir and that was EVIL. With overlord and stratagem that's 36 shots and 63 hits in average. If you get within 12" not much that doesn't melt. And rather annoying to remove. Got to build and paint more tomb blades.

Need to work on midfield brawling.

9 skorpek destroyers(again by the other necron player) are murder machine. I survived the charge by 2 squads but that required the 2++ wraiths and focusing on them which left tomb blades free to wreak havoc...

9 tesla tomb blades are easy to shut down. Charge them with a cheap unit, die to overwatch, charge them with another unit. If successful they cant shoot next turn, unless a royal warden is nearby. I dont see the point of skorpekh destroyers, wraith are better.

Keep in mind getting to tomb blades need getting past necron front line(those wraiths and skorpeks). These don't rush in front line...rather skim around, use ruins(i had these raining fire on me from top of 8" ruin) etc. And unit charging needs　to be tougher than 6 wounds at 3+ save or full ig troop squad or they will simply die without even preventing one round of shooting...

Not that much stuff that can do that for cheap.

Yeah that seems pretty nasty. Do you mind posting your list or at least the units you found did the most work for you? I'd love to hear more about how it went since I haven't had a chance to play the new edition yet and won't for a while.

As a side note, speaking of Tomb Blades, I recently got my hands on six and am wondering what people think loadout wise in the new edition, should I build them with Tesla or Gauss? I was thinking with Gauss going up to 30'' range and there being so many primaris running around it might be the better option but based on that story tesla sounds like it can still do the business

9 tesla tomb blades shoot 36 shots at 24". Every 6+ explodes. If you MWBD them every 5+ explodes. Sautekh with stratagem lets them explode on 4+. With gauss you get 18 shots at 24", and 36 shots at 12". But 12" is dangerously close to the enemy, and the risk of getting charged is high. Overwatch might not help, because only unmodified 6s hit, and you dont get exploding 6s, like tesla.

 TheArchmagos wrote:
Yeah that seems pretty nasty. Do you mind posting your list or at least the units you found did the most work for you? I'd love to hear more about how it went since I haven't had a chance to play the new edition yet and won't for a while.

As a side note, speaking of Tomb Blades, I recently got my hands on six and am wondering what people think loadout wise in the new edition, should I build them with Tesla or Gauss? I was thinking with Gauss going up to 30'' range and there being so many primaris running around it might be the better option but based on that story tesla sounds like it can still do the business

I had overlord, skorpek lord, royal warden, 2x5 tesla immortal, 7xlychguard, heatray stalker, 5xwraith, 5xdestroyer, doomsday ark. Patrol + aux detachment for overlord. All nihilikh.

Skorpek lord, DDA and stalker were 3 standouts generally and scored fairly reliably while we stand we fight. Got max on first game, 5 on 2nd but screwed up with skorpek lord(really should have just headed elsewhere than stay with lychguard with ragnar, Bjorn and wolf cavalry on same area...) and stalker got screwed by marine flyer autoexploding(didn't even knew that was a thing...). 10 points on last game only losing DDA when those tomb blades came in and caused 13 wounds just like that and 10 tesla immortals split fire dropping it and doing some other damage as well. Skorpek lord in 1st game duelled venom crawler away surviving unscathed despite some serious bad luck on dice rolling(took 5 combat rounds...Got him to 1 wound but then seemed he could not fail 5++ so despite lychguard coming around took a while) which helped to get objective which was vital for the win. 2nd game he got pasted by twice attacking Ragnar though finished up wolf cavalry before that. Would have helped had I remembered my -1 damage warlord trait vs dam flat 2 Ragnar...3rd game finished up Tomb blades though albeit required 8" charge to get to top of the ruin.

DDA was solid damage dealer all tournament and stalker provided mobile AT platform and not that useless melee ability. I find him to be useful at dealing with wounded things relieving dedicated melee things for more important combats.

Royal warden was major let down but that was partially likely due to how I used and partially how games went. Nobody tagged my units in melee so that I needed fall back and shoot/charge except wraiths could have done but questionable would royal warden survived with half a dozen skorpeks, skorpek lord, immortals and tomb blades swarming that area...And frankly fell back and try to lure them away worked just fine(as opponent noted that was mistake on his part. Let wraiths run. Head toward my home objective). So all royal warden did all tournament was 2 vp from raise banner secondary in 1st game and 1 tomb blade shot in last game. For 80 pts and 2 CP(since I needed another det) def not worth it but not giving up on it yet.

Tesla immortals weren't doing damage but then again 2x5 can't expect to do. What they did was give me vp's. In 1st game raise banner that gave me 5 vp and veiled to get to quarter that gave me 5 vp as well. 2nd and 3rd game used one unit with veil to secure 10 vp in both game deep striking into opponent deployment and put scramblers in. 90 pts isn't that bad to lose turn shooting so that was useful.

Other necron player ran overlord, cryptek, skorpek lord, 9xskorpek destroyers, 9 tomb blades, 10 tesla immortal, 10 gauss immortal, 5 gauss immortal. Skorpek stuff as novokh, rest as mephir(btw 1500). He's having good success with both skorpek's and tomb blades. For me it looks thin on AT but then again skorpek's cause hurt on there as well and tomb blades drops leman russ in average if they get within 12" so can't ignore those either.

For tomb blades magnets. Don't lock yourself. Especially with codex coming. But now especially with mephir you really want tesla at least for one unit. Hitting on 2+, proccing 3 hits on 5+ and extra shots on 6(which proc's more hits on 5+ as well)...well you average out 63 hits S5 ignoring cover. The -1 is nice but unless you are shooting at natively 2+ not even that needed. They delete lots of stuff 3+ save or not anyway.

 TheArchmagos wrote:
Yeah that seems pretty nasty. Do you mind posting your list or at least the units you found did the most work for you? I'd love to hear more about how it went since I haven't had a chance to play the new edition yet and won't for a while.

As a side note, speaking of Tomb Blades, I recently got my hands on six and am wondering what people think loadout wise in the new edition, should I build them with Tesla or Gauss? I was thinking with Gauss going up to 30'' range and there being so many primaris running around it might be the better option but based on that story tesla sounds like it can still do the business

I have always found Guass Blades to be much more effective.

It is true that they get kinda close to their targerts, but being able to just rank up next to whatever you want to eradicate and drowning them in AP2 fire is pretty good.

Mephrit makes them a lot scarier, and that range buff that is coming will help them even more, as will being able to pick up a +1 to hit from an overlord before they make their gun run.

I have always found tesla to be better on the backfield immortals, where their higher peak effective range makes them able to harras targets in the midfield better. Units that move, or are able to get into much closer ranges easier, I have always found Guass to be a better weapon for that job.

YMMV obviously, but it's worked for me this far.

Mephir ap bonus helps　tesla more than gauss though. And overlord buff also is more　valuable to tesla.

Though certainly tomb blades is one unit where gauss can work. Issue being you are in face of enemy. Need screen　to avoid enemy charging you.

 p5freak wrote:
9 tesla tomb blades shoot 36 shots at 24". Every 6+ explodes. If you MWBD them every 5+ explodes. Sautekh with stratagem lets them explode on 4+. With gauss you get 18 shots at 24", and 36 shots at 12". But 12" is dangerously close to the enemy, and the risk of getting charged is high. Overwatch might not help, because only unmodified 6s hit, and you dont get exploding 6s, like tesla.

Couple points though.

Tesla is almost guaranteed going to be changed to unmodified 6's

Sauhteks new trait pushes rapid fire out to 18" meaning they are not going to be all that danger close

I'd also argue you shouldn't care much about being close anyway since in 9th your going to want these guys pushing onto the objectives, and I think worrying about them being tangled in combat is a missed opportunity, especially when the overseer fixes this issue and makes TB's insane at grabbing the midfield points.

I personally still prefer gauss on TB's because I'd much rather have quality of fire over volume of ap- especially with all marines going to 2wounds. Good god are plague marines going to be an issue.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
9 tesla tomb blades shoot 36 shots at 24". Every 6+ explodes. If you MWBD them every 5+ explodes. Sautekh with stratagem lets them explode on 4+. With gauss you get 18 shots at 24", and 36 shots at 12". But 12" is dangerously close to the enemy, and the risk of getting charged is high. Overwatch might not help, because only unmodified 6s hit, and you dont get exploding 6s, like tesla.

Couple points though.

Tesla is almost guaranteed going to be changed to unmodified 6's

Sauhteks new trait pushes rapid fire out to 18" meaning they are not going to be all that danger close

I'd also argue you shouldn't care much about being close anyway since in 9th your going to want these guys pushing onto the objectives, and I think worrying about them being tangled in combat is a missed opportunity, especially when the overseer fixes this issue and makes TB's insane at grabbing the midfield points.

I personally still prefer gauss on TB's because I'd much rather have quality of fire over volume of ap- especially with all marines going to 2wounds. Good god are plague marines going to be an issue.

Yeah i agree with you. Lots of good points there regarding 9th edition and what changes its bringing

Does anyone think that a Night Scythe currently has any value as a transport? Wait, hear me out!

Tomb world deployment is still terrible, but if you only have one Night Scythe and one unit on the tomb world, then the Scythe functions exactly like a normal transport.

Transports are much more useful in 9th so how does the Night Scythe stack up?

135 pts is a little on the expensive side.
T6, 12W, 3+Sv, -1 to hit, can't be assaulted by non-flyers, is reasonable for defense, it's no impulsor, but its harder to take out than a Rhino.
60" move is incredibly fast and way above what most transports get.
It's also fairly special in the capacity department; only one unit but no size limit.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Tomb world deployment is still terrible, but if you only have one Night Scythe and one unit on the tomb world, then the Scythe functions exactly like a normal transport.

Why do you think a NS would work like a normal transport ? You still deploy the unit(s) on the tomb world, which means you cannot set up the tomb world unit(s) T1 in matched play.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Does anyone think that a Night Scythe currently has any value as a transport? Wait, hear me out!

Tomb world deployment is still terrible, but if you only have one Night Scythe and one unit on the tomb world, then the Scythe functions exactly like a normal transport.

Transports are much more useful in 9th so how does the Night Scythe stack up?

135 pts is a little on the expensive side.
T6, 12W, 3+Sv, -1 to hit, can't be assaulted by non-flyers, is reasonable for defense, it's no impulsor, but its harder to take out than a Rhino.
60" move is incredibly fast and way above what most transports get.
It's also fairly special in the capacity department; only one unit but no size limit.

Exactly like except every time you go 2nd better　count on having to use　cp to get unit out of it. Being super soft opponent has zero　issues taking it out.

Plus the no t1 coming out. One big use transport　has is ablative wounds of transport if you go 2nd plus 3" extra move t1.

tneva82 wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Does anyone think that a Night Scythe currently has any value as a transport? Wait, hear me out!

Tomb world deployment is still terrible, but if you only have one Night Scythe and one unit on the tomb world, then the Scythe functions exactly like a normal transport.

Transports are much more useful in 9th so how does the Night Scythe stack up?

135 pts is a little on the expensive side.
T6, 12W, 3+Sv, -1 to hit, can't be assaulted by non-flyers, is reasonable for defense, it's no impulsor, but its harder to take out than a Rhino.
60" move is incredibly fast and way above what most transports get.
It's also fairly special in the capacity department; only one unit but no size limit.

Exactly like except every time you go 2nd better　count on having to use　cp to get unit out of it. Being super soft opponent has zero　issues taking it out.

Plus the no t1 coming out. One big use transport　has is ablative wounds of transport if you go 2nd plus 3" extra move t1.

The tombworld deployment differs from plain transports in the fact that the transported unit is not physically there.

Another "problem" is perhaps that to take advantage of this added flexibility, you should bring more Nightscythes (or Monoliths), eg you could fly one NS left, and another NS right, and deploy your unit where it is best needed, as the game progresses, which is nice. Of course this is a problem as it is not really affordable as it is.

If you could combine the "Emergency disembark" with the "Disembark an extra unit from the tomb world", it could suddenly transport two units quite risk free, which is nice. If it lives to move up-field, you are likely to get a head start to two units of shieldguards for example. Worst case they drop down on the same objective, best case it lives to move to the next objective and drop a unit there too. But alas.

Ah yes turn 1 disembark, that is something you can't do which did slip my mind as it's not generally what you want to do with a transport.

In all other respects one NS with one tomb world unit can be treated like a normal transport (getting your unit out when blown up costs 1CP instead of killing models, but is otherwise functionally identical).

So are we saying a single Night Scythe is a bad transport because you can't get out turn 1?
My main issue with it vs other transports is that, like all aircraft, it can't score. Otherwise I think the speed of it makes it a very interesting choice.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Ah yes turn 1 disembark, that is something you can't do which did slip my mind as it's not generally what you want to do with a transport.

In all other respects one NS with one tomb world unit can be treated like a normal transport (getting your unit out when blown up costs 1CP instead of killing models, but is otherwise functionally identical).

So are we saying a single Night Scythe is a bad transport because you can't get out turn 1?
My main issue with it vs other transports is that, like all aircraft, it can't score. Otherwise I think the speed of it makes it a very interesting choice.

Also our transport-number is effectively capped at 1, where as evil-guy on the other side of the table can bring 10 rhinos if he so pleases

Well, we have to expect it's rules are changing anyway so I wouldn't really bother until we see the new version.

So far we know the gun gained 2 shots, which is still pretty weak honestly but hopefully it gained normal transport rules. If thats the case, it has a bit more merit however IMO flying transports that are not valkyries still have their issues since your hanging out for a turn. But if you can drop 15 gauss reaper warriors and rip into something I can see that being pretty solid. As well as the obvious 10 shield guard trick.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Well, we have to expect it's rules are changing anyway so I wouldn't really bother until we see the new version.

So far we know the gun gained 2 shots, which is still pretty weak honestly but hopefully it gained normal transport rules. If thats the case, it has a bit more merit however IMO flying transports that are not valkyries still have their issues since your hanging out for a turn. But if you can drop 15 gauss reaper warriors and rip into something I can see that being pretty solid. As well as the obvious 10 shield guard trick.

Literally the only thing they need to do to fix our transports is to keep the "they can come out of any 'transport'" and add a caveat that "If the last transport available is destroyed, all remaining units must disembark. For each model that disembarks, roll a d6, on a 1, a model is slain."

If we can get that, all problems are fixed.

So, question for you.
What is the best character in your opinion to use the Veil of Darkness to move 20 Sautehk Reaper Warriors forward turn 1? (Assuming the new dynasty protocol will be them being able to rapid fire from their full range).

Royal Warden keeps them from being tied up in melee, and contributes Firepower with RGB.

Cryptek to give them a chronometron 5++ and better RP, with staff of light.

Lord to give them reroll 1s to wound, maybe contribute with staff of light?

Overlord for next turn MWBD, melee counterpunch?

Skorpehk to try and charge in as a distraction?

Thoughts?

Without knowing how RP/Command protocols/stratagems will work:

I think you have observed one of the problems with veiling in 20 warriors and character support. They are outside of the overlapping buffs they need. Personally I think you split the 20 man squad of warriors into 2x10 man squads of reapers and put them both in Ghost Arks.

1) The Sautekh Dynasty rapid fire should be substantial buff the ghost arks flayer arrays as well.
2) You dodge 11+ models D6 blast effects.
3) If you want to be cute, the c'tan deciever redeploy allows the units inside redeployed transports to perform 1st turn charges. 10 necron warrors aren't scary but they might tie some unsuspecting units up.
4) You can use veil of darkness on something more intimidating than warriors. Like Destroyers, Lynchguard, etc.

If your determined to do it, I guess the chronometron 5++ is critical. The warriors need to survive and hold an objective until its your turn to score.

 iGuy91 wrote:

Literally the only thing they need to do to fix our transports is to keep the "they can come out of any 'transport'" and add a caveat that "If the last transport available is destroyed, all remaining units must disembark. For each model that disembarks, roll a d6, on a 1, a model is slain."

If we can get that, all problems are fixed.

I think our transports would still be pretty bad with that. Units need to come out at then end of the movement phase to fix them. Then the monolith could deepstrike and bring out a unit in the same turn. Night Scythes could zoom up the board and drop boys without having to survive a turn first. Units coming out this way would probably need the " not within 9" rule.

d4chans necron tactis states that monoliths and NS's can use their portal turn 1. I thought you couldn't?

You *could*, but then they nerfed it when they stopped T1 Deep Strikes, which is the point they went from transports to Reserve Beacons, essentially