Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In view of the RP, it would mean that I can roll several times for each model as long as it doesn’t die.

thats how it used to be. you'd set the model down on the table and roll each turn unless the unit was wiped out

 IHateNids wrote:
I would happily trade 3++ for reanimating 4++

probably in the minority, but whatever

Wraiths, even with a reduced 4++, would be absolutely amazing if they gain RP by default that triggers post causalities. As would Scarabs.

Yeh I could live with 4++ wraiths with RP. 3++ with RP and Nihilakh for obsec would be insane.

This RP change changes everything. It's going back to the 7th ed style. If you can reliably bump that 5+ to a 4+ than we're back on top like we were with Decurions in 7th Ed.

With RP being every phase as well like this, that explains at least a bit behind their thinking on the overpriced walkers (still overpriced and gonna die too quick though). Crypteks + Murderbuckets is best.

Why do i have a bad feeling that it won't be a 5+ to start and will be changed to a 6+ for "balance" reasons?

If it stays as a 5+ and the 5++ from cryptek can be put on anything could this make the reanimator better?

Oberron wrote:
Why do i have a bad feeling that it won't be a 5+ to start and will be changed to a 6+ for "balance" reasons?

If it stays as a 5+ and the 5++ from cryptek can be put on anything could this make the reanimator better?

Frankly, I'm absolutely unable to throw 5+ or even 6+.
But I can reliably throw 4+ (as was the case in a Decurion).

Oberron wrote:
Why do i have a bad feeling that it won't be a 5+ to start and will be changed to a 6+ for "balance" reasons?

If it stays as a 5+ and the 5++ from cryptek can be put on anything could this make the reanimator better?

Because it likely is.

If Res Orbs remain select a unit, gain +1 (hopeful ditching the once per game), and cryptek reanimancers also do that exact same thing, as do Canoptek reanimators, suddenly you could have a 2+ FNP roll if you choose to superbuff one unit (re-rolling 1s if it's Warriors)

Starting from 6+ means that this sequence caps out at 3+. Hopefully the rule wont have a cap because I can't see us having any more than 3 possible versions of a buff to this roll, so the odds of people ever having more the one unkillable unit would be very slim, and most people are likely to want to have numerous slightly-more-resilient ones, than all of them on 6+ and one unit that is utterly untouchable

As for the 5++, it would crtainly make the reanimator better, but wether or not all of the crypteks allow for +1 to reanimation remains to be seen. If not, you are theoretically following a single unit with 2 characetrs and a walker. If they do, great, 20 Warriors, Reanimator, Chronomancer. 400 points (I would expect) of guys with 4+ armour, 4+ RR1s FNP, spitting out a decent ish amount of firepower, under the effect of your current Directive because crypteks are noble. Add Murderbuckets to protect your Cryptek and voila, self-propelled borderline immovable object

So I’m curious, which destroyers do you guys think you’ll take more between the Skorpekhs and floaty tunnelling ones?

Doesn't the universal cap of only buffing/nurfing a roll by 1 count towards reanimation? I thought that was the big thing about 9th!

MrPieChee wrote:
Doesn't the universal cap of only buffing/nurfing a roll by 1 count towards reanimation? I thought that was the big thing about 9th!

That’s only to-hit and to-wound rolls to my understanding.

 Tiberius501 wrote:

MrPieChee wrote:
Doesn't the universal cap of only buffing/nurfing a roll by 1 count towards reanimation? I thought that was the big thing about 9th!

That’s only to-hit and to-wound rolls to my understanding.

I think that's only for to hit rolls

I also think, if I'm remembering correctly, that the cap is put in place after all the modifiers are totalled. So, the old Alaitoc Flyers with that daft stratagem give you a minus 3, but you have +1 vs flyers so it is actually a -2, then it gets capped at a -1.

I think.

I havent played 9th yet, so I dont know.

The +/-1 cap is for hit and wound rolls only.

Slipspace wrote:
The new rules for the Chronometron are a pretty big nerf compared to now. Instead of getting a 5+ invulnerable to all units it's now a selected unit. Yes, they also get to reroll charges but unless RP gets a very good buff Necron armies are looking like they may be less durable overall thanks to this single change.

Hardly.

Chronometron was a 3" aura, which was hard enough to utilize in 8th anyway, but with coherency in 9th it's just an absolute joke. Then there was the fact it was infantry only and then there was the fact that because of the range, you were usually using it for a single unit (Destroyers) only anyway. And even if you wanted to do it in a tightly bunched up Immortal castle, ap -3 weapons are not actually that common anyway and those types of weapons wouldn't be shooting at Immortals in the first place. It was always in practice a buff for a singular unit to protect from heavy stuff, which it still is, just now with a better range and an extra effect.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So I’m curious, which destroyers do you guys think you’ll take more between the Skorpekhs and floaty tunnelling ones?

Skorpekhs for me, the Ophyidians are chaff clearers, and we just have enough tools for that already. They have a place in a full combat army, but if you're gonna sprinkle in some combat, Skorpekhs are far more universally useful.

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So I’m curious, which destroyers do you guys think you’ll take more between the Skorpekhs and floaty tunnelling ones?

Hopefully both of the points are good. We have some decent melee options now to spam units with Rule of 3.

The ophydians might be useful if the new book provides a way to grant them objective secured, as they could be used to push weaker troop units off of backfield objectives

Yeah I was also thinking Skorpekhs. Not just because I have 6 already, but just based on their general toughness and Strength.

One necron question just came to mind: Do you think the new hexmark wil get to use a plasmacyte? The skorpekh and ophydian destroyers ge tto use them at a risk, will the hexmark and what effect would it have? Supercharging his guns, increases shots or what?

 wuestenfux wrote:
In view of the RP, it would mean that I can roll several times for each model as long as it doesn’t die.

Either no or you don't roll at all if unit dies out to one attack. Otherwise we go to realm of absurdity when it's virtually impossible to kill permanently any unit with RP.

If no roll if whole unit dies it means you can still negate RP by having sufficiently nasty unit shooting so that you wipe out entire squad in one go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiberius501 wrote:

MrPieChee wrote:
Doesn't the universal cap of only buffing/nurfing a roll by 1 count towards reanimation? I thought that was the big thing about 9th!

That’s only to-hit and to-wound rolls to my understanding.

To hit and to wound. It's not universal cap. If you don't want to go read rulebook consider this: If it's universal cap terminators will NEVER roll lower than 3+ for saves...As armour save modifier is...well modifier. You can throw doomsday ark at terminator and they save on 3+. Throw it at power armour and worst they roll is 4+.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Bosskelot wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
The new rules for the Chronometron are a pretty big nerf compared to now. Instead of getting a 5+ invulnerable to all units it's now a selected unit. Yes, they also get to reroll charges but unless RP gets a very good buff Necron armies are looking like they may be less durable overall thanks to this single change.

Hardly.

Chronometron was a 3" aura, which was hard enough to utilize in 8th anyway, but with coherency in 9th it's just an absolute joke. Then there was the fact it was infantry only and then there was the fact that because of the range, you were usually using it for a single unit (Destroyers) only anyway. And even if you wanted to do it in a tightly bunched up Immortal castle, ap -3 weapons are not actually that common anyway and those types of weapons wouldn't be shooting at Immortals in the first place. It was always in practice a buff for a singular unit to protect from heavy stuff, which it still is, just now with a better range and an extra effect.

You put it between 2 infantry units, you have 2 units covered. You would be staying close for MWBD's etc anyway. You REALLY need 2 infantry units to have gap more than 6" between them?

Add in 2nd rank of units so you have something when front units get wiped out and it's easy 4 units.

IanVanCheese wrote:

 Tiberius501 wrote:
So I’m curious, which destroyers do you guys think you’ll take more between the Skorpekhs and floaty tunnelling ones?

Skorpekhs for me, the Ophyidians are chaff clearers, and we just have enough tools for that already. They have a place in a full combat army, but if you're gonna sprinkle in some combat, Skorpekhs are far more universally useful.

I'm not sure about that, I think the Ophyidians are actually more killy than Skorpekhs in a lot of cases. Against most targets you are getting 16% less wounds on the Threshers, but you are also getting the exploding 6's on the reap blade and getting the extra 6-12 claw attacks.

If the Plasmacyte bonus stays the same, they become significantly more killy against almost all targets than Skorpekhs even with the Plasmacyte bonus. The Exploding 6's on the reap blade increases with more attacks, and the better wounding on the claw is huge.


That being said, both of these are going to shred through most any targets anyway. The nice thing is that Ophydians don't get tied up by hordes near as much thanks the claws. Skorpekhs have that edge on surviability thanks to the better save and toughness though.

 Bosskelot wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
The new rules for the Chronometron are a pretty big nerf compared to now. Instead of getting a 5+ invulnerable to all units it's now a selected unit. Yes, they also get to reroll charges but unless RP gets a very good buff Necron armies are looking like they may be less durable overall thanks to this single change.

Hardly.

Chronometron was a 3" aura, which was hard enough to utilize in 8th anyway, but with coherency in 9th it's just an absolute joke. Then there was the fact it was infantry only and then there was the fact that because of the range, you were usually using it for a single unit (Destroyers) only anyway.

I consistently manage to get 4 units in range without too much bunching up - it only needs a single model within 3" of the Cryptek. I have no idea how you think only 1 is in any way "usual". It helps Warriors a lot and with plasma still being pretty common it's of use on Immortals as well. I never found the range that restrictive and the fact it only buffs infantry normally meant you had a lot if you took the Chronometron so it was a big force multiplier in all my games. I've not really experienced 9th's coherency rules being all that bad, even running units of 20 Warriors, and they certainly haven't affected my ability to keep things in range of the Cryptek.

Having it now affect any unit is fantastic, as is the longer range, but losing coverage of multiple units will be a big nerf entirely because it really isn't difficult to hit 3-4 units with it right now. It's looking likely the new RP rules may help mitigate that change entirely though, in which case it's a very nice tool in the Necron arsenal.

Slipspace wrote:

 Bosskelot wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
The new rules for the Chronometron are a pretty big nerf compared to now. Instead of getting a 5+ invulnerable to all units it's now a selected unit. Yes, they also get to reroll charges but unless RP gets a very good buff Necron armies are looking like they may be less durable overall thanks to this single change.

Hardly.

Chronometron was a 3" aura, which was hard enough to utilize in 8th anyway, but with coherency in 9th it's just an absolute joke. Then there was the fact it was infantry only and then there was the fact that because of the range, you were usually using it for a single unit (Destroyers) only anyway.

I consistently manage to get 4 units in range without too much bunching up - it only needs a single model within 3" of the Cryptek. I have no idea how you think only 1 is in any way "usual". It helps Warriors a lot and with plasma still being pretty common it's of use on Immortals as well. I never found the range that restrictive and the fact it only buffs infantry normally meant you had a lot if you took the Chronometron so it was a big force multiplier in all my games. I've not really experienced 9th's coherency rules being all that bad, even running units of 20 Warriors, and they certainly haven't affected my ability to keep things in range of the Cryptek.

Having it now affect any unit is fantastic, as is the longer range, but losing coverage of multiple units will be a big nerf entirely because it really isn't difficult to hit 3-4 units with it right now. It's looking likely the new RP rules may help mitigate that change entirely though, in which case it's a very nice tool in the Necron arsenal.

Also remember that with the new coherency rules it's going to be trickier to dip a unit just barely into an aura

Wait, am I up? I know I am not up, "TITO, TITO, where are you?" His Overlord heard a sigh of relief from Tito, but it was a sigh of anxiety. Tito hadn't listened to his Master's voice for thousands of years, and it was still unwelcomed. "Yes, Kenpachi, your time has come to rule once more!" Tito said as he bowed. "Who gave you permission to use my name, and why can't I see?" "I apologize, my Lord, we are having issues with our protocols. Something named COVID is affecting your Tomb World." Tito glanced at Kenpachi's Warscythe, which he had purposely placed out of his Master's reach. Kenpachi quickly reached for his weapon; the failed attempt angered the Overlord as he slammed his fist into his thrown. "Are you telling me my entire force is blind?" "Not exactly, my Lord COVID, from what I can tell, it was done on purpose. You and I both know who gave me the proper protocol to awaken your forces." "Be careful, Tito, choose your next few words carefully, or they will be your last," Kenpachi said as he finally grasped his warscythe. Tito had been in this position before, but this time he knew his Master was serious. "I will not use my words. I will use the Silent's Kings, Kenpachi; you are undoubtedly my strongest Overlord, but only I can reunite our people. We both know you would kill anyone including your own if they disagree with you, so I have put restraints upon you until my arrival. Rejoice, for the Necrontyr will rise again!"

Mr.Extra is back! I know you missed me! So my Necrons are getting a new codex, I been doing my research, and I am ready to help all the Overlords out there. Has anyone put all the rumors in one spot? (Found it) https://www.belloflostsouls.net/category/necrons If so, can I get a link that would be helpful? I will study for one more day before I start running my mouth about the good, the bad, and the ugly! Stay tune or re-animate; it doesn't matter to me we are running 9th edition! The Emperor can't kill 4 Gods; we got Gods working for us!

And ignoring CKO

Also ignoring

When it comes to 40k evaluation of units and rules is complex. Player skill and experience play a huge factor in how a unit will perform on the tabletop. In my evaluations, I will give two grades one will be its potential grade and the other will be its true grade. The potential grade is getting the most out of the unit/rule vs the true grade which is what you can expect from average players. I will be grading the Mephrit dynasty in this post.

Mephrit: +3 to all Ranged Weapons, -1 AP for half range

Potential Grade: -A True Grade: B

This dynasty upgrades Necron's firepower greatly however to take full advantage it requires strategic reserves. Both tesla and gauss become better with this dynasty. Tesla will be able to engage enemies at a greater distance or receive a -1 to AP. The best use of this dynasty is to take advantage of strategic reserves to guarantee that you receive the -1 AP. Destroyers coming onto the board and delivering -4 AP shots and your choice of a unit carrying gauss weaponry becoming -3 AP is the main reason why Mephrit dynasty was able to get an -A in my opinion. You can create a competitive list around having a combination of Destroyers and Immortals delivering an alpha strike with the use of strategic reserves. The main problem I have with the Mephrit dynasty is that we have CC now and it doesn't help them at all. What do you guys think?

 CKO wrote:
When it comes to 40k evaluation of units and rules is complex. Player skill and experience play a huge factor in how a unit will perform on the tabletop. In my evaluations, I will give two grades one will be its potential grade and the other will be its true grade. The potential grade is getting the most out of the unit/rule vs the true grade which is what you can expect from average players. I will be grading the Mephrit dynasty in this post.

Mephrit: +3 to all Ranged Weapons, -1 AP for half range

Potential Grade: -A True Grade: B

This dynasty upgrades Necron's firepower greatly however to take full advantage it requires strategic reserves. Both tesla and gauss become better with this dynasty. Tesla will be able to engage enemies at a greater distance or receive a -1 to AP. The best use of this dynasty is to take advantage of strategic reserves to guarantee that you receive the -1 AP. Destroyers coming onto the board and delivering -4 AP shots and your choice of a unit carrying gauss weaponry becoming -3 AP is the main reason why Mephrit dynasty was able to get an -A in my opinion. You can create a competitive list around having a combination of Destroyers and Immortals delivering an alpha strike with the use of strategic reserves. The main problem I have with the Mephrit dynasty is that we have CC now and it doesn't help them at all. What do you guys think?

I'd suggest that there's literally no point trying to analyse the various Dynastic Codes in the context of the new Codex since we know so little about it. Literally everything you've said above is either banal to the point of not being very useful or speculation based on no information whatsoever. We don't know how all our auras will work, what other buffing units we will have or what any of the new Command Protocols do other than the one they showed off last week. Also, what metrics are you using to determine what an "average player" is?

Slipspace wrote:
I'd suggest that there's literally no point trying to analyse the various Dynastic Codes in the context of the new Codex since we know so little about it. Literally everything you've said above is either banal to the point of not being very useful or speculation based on no information whatsoever. We don't know how all our auras will work, what other buffing units we will have or what any of the new Command Protocols do other than the one they showed off last week.

We are missing information but GW has revealed several things to us about the new codex. Here is a link to the majority of those things. https://www.belloflostsouls.net/category/necrons Using this information I gave the dynasty the grade, I am fully aware that my evaluation can be incorrect once we have the codex in hand but there is nothing wrong with speculating about our new options. Making detailed strategies is impossible thus I kept it simple with few examples due to the lack of codex.

Hopefully, by giving an example of how you can apply what I posted in my previous post it will be more usefull. Are you being pounded away by something that is out of line of sight or range such as the Space Marine's Whirlwind Scorpius or a Paladin Squad using astral aim? You can place your Destroyer Squad in strategic reserves and when they arrive they can avoid any terrain issues and be placed in range to get the -1 AP. With the stratagem activated you can easily destroy or weaken either of those units with your 18 str 6 -4 AP D3 shots re-rolling missed hits and wound rolls.

Slipspace wrote:
Also, what metrics are you using to determine what an "average player" is?

The average player is someone who isn't able to get the most out of their units.

Any thoughts on the lokhust heavy destroyer weapons?
I've seen a lot of knee jerk reactions. Seems to me like 3 gauss destructors are going to be a lethal vehicle/monster hunting unit while the enmitic exterminator is a way to add some extra firepower to your regular group of 6 destroyers.