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2018/03/28 20:26:26
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Kuguar6 wrote: I have infrantry list with cryptek and overlord. I think about artifact. Veil is auto include? Its worth to take second? I think about voidreaper or voltaic staff.
Promote my question. What do you think about artifact? Especjally about weapons. Are they worth 1 CP or 2 CP for third?
How is the army?
You would want the artifact to enhance the role of the Overlord/Cryptek for the army.
Veil is not auto include, does it enhance the army and its mission/goal.
I dont think 1 artifact is worth 2 CP unless it serves a very specific and important role.
1 Artifact is free though. Its when you want to have a second or even third artifact that you start paying CP.
There's really no reason to not take an artifact.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/03/28 20:28:40
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Requizen wrote: The only way (imo) to run Lychguard is 10 in a Night Scythe, preferrably with a redundancy Scythe or Monolith. And then they'd be like C+ rank at best.
Why redundancy? They are 100% safe with 1CP.
Unless they completely surround the Night Scythe. If they surround it and keep it alive, you can't drop off the Lychguard. If they surround it and kill it, then you have nowhere to drop and they just die.
That seems a bit unlikely, given the size of the base and how far they move in a turn.
Not to mention people act like the Monolith doesn't have 18 good shots (plus any other units you range with) to use to clear that unit surrounding it.
2018/03/28 21:03:47
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Toss my question back out there - list ideas for the Tesseract Vault? I was thinking about using Deceiver to bring it up to the enemy.
Any other ideas? thoughts? etc
That's a good question i'd also like to know the answer to, people have been drolling over the vault buuuut i'm not fully convinced it's a GIANT fething bullseye wich while durable also is a mid range unit. All of its "guns" , both traditional and essotheric are 18-24" range. You COULD deliver it with a deceiver into optimum range (holly hell i think i found the new distraction carnifex =)) ) and tbh probably should but that's... pricey, really pricey. The sad part is well... and elite and a LoW now what detachment would really like thoo... OW YEAH Supreme Command. Ofc the problem is necrons don't really have cheap throwaway HQs to stick in SupComm.... i dono i like the model but i think it might be abit of a trap... testing required.
Come to think of it... Arankyr, him and the vault are perfect deciver targes... ok so new were looking into an assault list.... god dammit now i have stich a list together.... here!
I went more fun than optimal with the SupCom HQ's buuuut plonking the thing next to an obj and using Reclaim the lost empire for 3++ is.. interesting , in my mind at least.... Realistically Arankyr Should probably be replaced by Illuminor Szeras but i kinda slapped the list together in 5 minutes.. he is an extra MWBD so between him and the OL all 3 immortals would have it... Trollzyn is there because Reclaim the Lost Empire poped into my head and well... he's 7 pts more than a OL c'mon... it's trollzyn.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/28 21:07:51
2018/03/28 21:45:15
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Named characters cannot get Artifacts!!!
1st is Free, 2nd costs 1CP, 3rd cost 2CP.
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
"C" Can lower saves for the Overlord to 2+, better choices available.
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result.
"B" Even if you spend 1CP to get this you still get a better result than from "Enhanced Reanimation Protocol" Stratagem that costs 2CP.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". MW on each roll of 6.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP -4, D3)
"B" Very good CC weapon, but do you want to be in CC?
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
"A" Maybe the best default Artifact available, gives much needed mobility, good on bubble wrapped characters like Lord or even a Cryptek if the Overlord has a Artifact.
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A MW on 4+
"C" Overlords have a 4++, Cryptek and Lords are really too weak for CC.
"A" The best upgrade for a CCB as it has no invulnerable save. CCB has the largest base so most likely to benefit from the "at the start of fight phase" MW on 4+ roll on all models within 1", its a flyer so flying over and positioning to maximize potential targets is advisable.
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at tend of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
"A" Exellent choice for the (only unnamed character with Phylactery) Destroyer. Doubles the wound regeneration and gives a free enhanced "Resurrection Protocol" stratagem worth 1CP with D6 wounds instead of 1 wound. Can be resurrected a second time by "Resurrection Protocol" for 1CP.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Repalces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6 AP3 D2 / User AP2 D1
"B" Good against multi wound, a wound roll of 6+ gives extra MW "A" Combined with Warlord trait "Merciless Tyrant" increases range by 6" to 18" and may target a Character! Especially good on a Destroyer Lord as he gets to re-roll to hit and to wound, increasing the chance of rolling 6+ wound for MW.
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, D2, +D3 Attacks.
"B" A good choice for a CC Character.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 D1 in melee)
"C" Weak, should be called the Abysmal Staff. (Honestly should have been a D6MW and then a "B").
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 D1 / AP2 D1. If enemy infantry is hit in shooting phase,on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
"B" Good for a shooty Character.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
"A" Fantastic, essentially one Free reroll worth 1 CP and a FNP 5+++
2018/03/28 22:26:43
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
My opponents list consisted of 2x Coldstar Commanders, 3x basic Fire Warrior squad, a Riptide, 2x Broadsides, a flyer and a Hammerhead. Plenty of drones and Markerlight units in between.
It was Hammer & deployment, I had three objective Markers pretty much in or close to my deployment zone.
With a lucky Seize I managed to get first turn!
Turn 1: Immortals with Imothekh slowly moved up the board, securing an objective marker. Had to be very careful to bubblewrap Imotekh around the Immortals, or else a Coldstar Commander could land right next to him and blow him up.
I decided to MWBD + Veil the Destroyers to get rid of either the Broadsides or the Riptide ASAP. This was a big mistake. While the Destroyer bomb was effective, it left the Gauss Immortals to do nothing for pretty much the rest of the match.
Either way, it was time for the shooting phase.
I started with Imothekh's Storm; who did a grant total of 9 Mortal Wounds spread out over several targets. It's great when your opponent has a big, important unit standing in the middle, means a larger AoE effect for the Storm.
One DDA did 10 wounds to a Riptide, thanks to my opponent failing two drone 'lookout sire's'. But boy are those annoying did I find out later.
The other DDA brought one Broadside down to one wound.
Then the Destroyers came in. With MWBD + their Strategem, they did a grand total of 13 wounds to the Riptide. Sounds good, but I should have split-fired a bit and gotten the wounded Broadside as well.
Opponents turn 1: The Tau retaliate with great force. Combined fire from the Fire Warriors, Cold Star Commanders and the Broadsides brought down the Destroyers. The Hammerhead managed to do 8 wounds to a DDA, which would have been dead were it not for the Quantum Deflection stratagem.
My turn 2: Imotekh and the Tesla Immortals moved up again, they were now in range along with the Tomb Blades.
Gauss Immortals stayed put, they took a beating from the enemy flyer dropping bombs on them.
Shooting:
One DDA one-shotted the flyer.
The other DDA wiffed and did nothing.
Then came the grand idea behind a large part of the list; using the Sautekh stratagem with all the Tesla I had in my list.
The problem was.... it required me to do an unsaved wound! With the DDA missing his shots, the Tesla units now had to deal a wound themselves.
Whiiiich brought me to AP0 vs a 2+ save..... yea. Nothing happened.
Enemy turn 2: The Fire Warriors and Commanders moved up, confident they could take my Immortals and Tomb Blades out. Fire from the Warriors, Broadside and Commanders finished of the Tomb Blades and one squad of Immortals.
Tau just do not care about you being in cover. Smart Missile Systems and plenty of Markerlights is just a big FU to cover.
My turn 3: With what little is left, Imothekh and the Overlord decided to retreat to try and hold as many objectives as possible.
The other Immortal squad, now restored to their original numbers, moved up along an empty flank to try and secure another objective.
Shooting:
A DDA one-shotted the Hammerhead.
The other DDA landed some shots on the Broadside, but those were intercepted by the last remaining drones.
Opponents turn 3: Everything moved up, one Coldstar Commander took out the Gauss Immortals. The other ColdStar + the Broadside managed to do only 4 wounds to a DDA, once again thanks to
Quantum Overload.
At this point the owner of the FLGS wanted to close, so we called it.
Final score: 11 to 7.
Post-match thoughts:
While the match went ok, I felt like I made some big mistakes during the match. That along with several units in my army not working as I wanted them to.
Mistakes: -Why did I rush in so quickly with the Veil'd Destroyers? My opponent's optimal range was 36" and I held three objective markers in my deployment zone. I should have stayed put turn one and let him come to me thanks to the range of the DDA's.
-Another big mistake was greedily Veiling in the Destroyers, leaving the Gauss Immortals to pick their noses in my deployment zone. I should have Veiled them up and simply used the Destroyers superior mobility to make use of both units.
-The 'Enchanced RP' is such a trap stratagem. Yes I got CP's back thanks to the Sautekh WL, but even when 7 Immortals are dead it simply isn't worth it.
-While the Sautekh Strategem sounds awesome, it can sometimes be more difficult to land that one unsaved wound on a priority target than it may seem!
-More specifically against Tau: Get those pesky drones! So many D3 or D6dmg shots from my Destroyers or DDA's were absorbed by them.
Weak units in the list:
-Min Tesla Immortal squads. Such a waste of MWBD and too easily shot of the table. Even the 'save' 24" range of Tesla us usually not enough to keep them away from your opponents guns.
-6x Tomb Blades /w Tesla. Again, I felt like a big unit of 9 would have lived through focus fire.
And the fact they they had Tesla weapons just made them do..... nothing. No AP is just killing. A full squad of 9 with Gauss Blasters, played way more aggressively would have done a lot better.
But, not all is bad though! Here are the positive parts of the army:
-Destroyer bomb. Unsurprisingly, their damage output is absolutely nuts. Even against tough units which you wound on 5+, the re-roll to wound plus their high AP makes them a threat to any enemy unit.
-DDA. By far my MVP's of the match, often blowing up one big unit per turn. They did however, eat through my CP like cotton candy. While I could afford it with 7 CP + Sautekh WL, they often require a re-roll for the D6 shots or the Quantum Deflection stratagem.
Final thoughts:
Imothek the Storm Lord. I'm not sure what to make of him. Yes him bringing an extra CP is nice, and his WL is great. And I also landed a nice Storm which might make me a bit biased. But his MWBD targets just did nothing, leaving him kind of useless just hanging out with them.
Can't draw any conclusions on him yet, but I'll definitely give him another go!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/03/29 10:03:21
2018/03/28 23:09:02
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
JNAProductions wrote: Not much reworking needed. Take that as Land Raider math, then.
490/216, or 2.27 damage, about.
Does drop it to only four Heavy Destroyers needed to one-round a Rhino 50% of the time.
That's surprisingly not too bad considering how durable Rhinos actually are for the cost. With Razorbacks being the same cost you trade off surprisingly okay for points, even though Assault Cannon variants are still pretty strong.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/03/29 00:48:48
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
JNAProductions wrote: Not much reworking needed. Take that as Land Raider math, then.
490/216, or 2.27 damage, about.
Does drop it to only four Heavy Destroyers needed to one-round a Rhino 50% of the time.
That's surprisingly not too bad considering how durable Rhinos actually are for the cost. With Razorbacks being the same cost you trade off surprisingly okay for points, even though Assault Cannon variants are still pretty strong.
Account for the OLord's cost too, though. That's with MWBD-the odds get worse without it.
7/9 hit
2/3 wound
7/2 damage
98/54, or 1.81 damage.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 00:49:25
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
2018/03/29 02:55:02
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
JNAProductions wrote: Not much reworking needed. Take that as Land Raider math, then.
490/216, or 2.27 damage, about.
Does drop it to only four Heavy Destroyers needed to one-round a Rhino 50% of the time.
That's surprisingly not too bad considering how durable Rhinos actually are for the cost. With Razorbacks being the same cost you trade off surprisingly okay for points, even though Assault Cannon variants are still pretty strong.
Account for the OLord's cost too, though. That's with MWBD-the odds get worse without it.
7/9 hit
2/3 wound
7/2 damage
98/54, or 1.81 damage.
Fair point. I'll at least try it and see how it goes...
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/03/29 03:20:03
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Named characters cannot get Artifacts!!!
1st is Free, 2nd costs 1CP, 3rd cost 2CP.
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
"C" Can lower saves for the Overlord to 2+, better choices available.
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result.
"B" Even if you spend 1CP to get this you still get a better result than from "Enhanced Reanimation Protocol" Stratagem that costs 2CP.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". MW on each roll of 6.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP -4, D3)
"B" Very good CC weapon, but do you want to be in CC?
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
"A" Maybe the best default Artifact available, gives much needed mobility, good on bubble wrapped characters like Lord or even a Cryptek if the Overlord has a Artifact.
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A MW on 4+
"C" Overlords have a 4++, Cryptek and Lords are really too weak for CC.
"A" The best upgrade for a CCB as it has no invulnerable save. CCB has the largest base so most likely to benefit from the "at the start of fight phase" MW on 4+ roll on all models within 1", its a flyer so flying over and positioning to maximize potential targets is advisable.
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at tend of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
"A" Exellent choice for the (only unnamed character with Phylactery) Destroyer. Doubles the wound regeneration and gives a free enhanced "Resurrection Protocol" stratagem worth 1CP with D6 wounds instead of 1 wound. Can be resurrected a second time by "Resurrection Protocol" for 1CP.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Repalces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6 AP3 D2 / User AP2 D1
"B" Good against multi wound, a wound roll of 6+ gives extra MW "A" Combined with Warlord trait "Merciless Tyrant" increases range by 6" to 18" and may target a Character! Especially good on a Destroyer Lord as he gets to re-roll to hit and to wound, increasing the chance of rolling 6+ wound for MW.
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, D2, +D3 Attacks.
"B" A good choice for a CC Character.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 D1 in melee)
"C" Weak, should be called the Abysmal Staff. (Honestly should have been a D6MW and then a "B").
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 D1 / AP2 D1. If enemy infantry is hit in shooting phase,on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
"B" Good for a shooty Character.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
"A" Fantastic, essentially one Free reroll worth 1 CP and a FNP 5+++
I don't see why not.
I'll add it to the top post.
2018/03/29 03:23:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
My opponents list consisted of 2x Coldstar Commanders, 3x basic Fire Warrior squad, a Riptide, 2x Broadsides, a flyer and a Hammerhead. Plenty of drones and Markerlight units in between.
It was Hammer & deployment, I had three objective Markers pretty much in or close to my deployment zone.
With a lucky Seize I managed to get first turn!
Turn 1: Immortals with Imothekh slowly moved up the board, securing an objective marker. Had to be very careful to bubblewrap Imotekh around the Immortals, or else a Coldstar Commander could land right next to him and blow him up.
I decided to MWBD + Veil the Destroyers to get rid of either the Broadsides or the Riptide ASAP. This was a big mistake. While the Destroyer bomb was effective, it left the Gauss Immortals to do nothing for pretty much the rest of the match.
Either way, it was time for the shooting phase.
I started with Imothekh's Storm; who did a grant total of 9 Mortal Wounds spread out over several targets. It's great when your opponent has a big, important unit standing in the middle, means a larger AoE effect for the Storm.
One DDA did 10 wounds to a Riptide, thanks to my opponent failing two drone 'lookout sire's'. But boy are those annoying did I find out later.
The other DDA brought one Broadside down to one wound.
Then the Destroyers came in. With MWBD + their Strategem, they did a grand total of 13 wounds to the Riptide. Sounds good, but I should have split-fired a bit and gotten the wounded Broadside as well.
Opponents turn 1: The Tau retaliate with great force. Combined fire from the Fire Warriors, Cold Star Commanders and the Broadsides brought down the Destroyers. The Hammerhead managed to do 8 wounds to a DDA, which would have been dead were it not for the Quantum Deflection stratagem.
My turn 2: Imotekh and the Tesla Immortals moved up again, they were now in range along with the Tomb Blades.
Gauss Immortals stayed put, they took a beating from the enemy flyer dropping bombs on them.
Shooting:
One DDA one-shotted the flyer.
The other DDA wiffed and did nothing.
Then came the grand idea behind a large part of the list; using the Sautekh stratagem with all the Tesla I had in my list.
The problem was.... it required me to do an unsaved wound! With the DDA missing his shots, the Tesla units now had to deal a wound themselves.
Whiiiich brought me to AP0 vs a 2+ save..... yea. Nothing happened.
Enemy turn 2: The Fire Warriors and Commanders moved up, confident they could take my Immortals and Tomb Blades out. Fire from the Warriors, Broadside and Commanders finished of the Tomb Blades and one squad of Immortals.
Tau just do not care about you being in cover. Smart Missile Systems and plenty of Markerlights is just a big FU to cover.
My turn 3: With what little is left, Imothekh and the Overlord decided to retreat to try and hold as many objectives as possible.
The other Immortal squad, now restored to their original numbers, moved up along an empty flank to try and secure another objective.
Shooting:
A DDA one-shotted the Hammerhead.
The other DDA landed some shots on the Broadside, but those were intercepted by the last remaining drones.
Opponents turn 3: Everything moved up, one Coldstar Commander took out the Gauss Immortals. The other ColdStar + the Broadside managed to do only 4 wounds to a DDA, once again thanks to
Quantum Overload.
At this point the owner of the FLGS wanted to close, so we called it.
Final score: 11 to 7.
Post-match thoughts:
While the match went ok, I felt like I made some big mistakes during the match. That along with several units in my army not working as I wanted them to.
Mistakes: -Why did I rush in so quickly with the Veil'd Destroyers? My opponent's optimal range was 36" and I held three objective markers in my deployment zone. I should have stayed put turn one and let him come to me thanks to the range of the DDA's.
-Another big mistake was greedily Veiling in the Destroyers, leaving the Gauss Immortals to pick their noses in my deployment zone. I should have Veiled them up and simply used the Destroyers superior mobility to make use of both units.
-The 'Enchanced RP' is such a trap stratagem. Yes I got CP's back thanks to the Sautekh WL, but even when 7 Immortals are dead it simply isn't worth it.
-While the Sautekh Strategem sounds awesome, it can sometimes be more difficult to land that one unsaved wound on a priority target than it may seem!
-More specifically against Tau: Get those pesky drones! So many D3 or D6dmg shots from my Destroyers or DDA's were absorbed by them.
Weak units in the list:
-Min Tesla Immortal squads. Such a waste of MWBD and too easily shot of the table. Even the 'save' 24" range of Tesla us usually not enough to keep them away from your opponents guns.
-6x Tomb Blades /w Tesla. Again, I felt like a big unit of 9 would have lived through focus fire.
And the fact they they had Tesla weapons just made them do..... nothing. No AP is just killing. A full squad of 9 with Gauss Blasters, played way more aggressively would have done a lot better.
But, not all is bad though! Here are the positive parts of the army:
-Destroyer bomb. Unsurprisingly, their damage output is absolutely nuts. Even against tough units which you wound on 5+, the re-roll to wound plus their high AP makes them a threat to any enemy unit.
-DDA. By far my MVP's of the match, often blowing up one big unit per turn. They did however, eat through my CP like cotton candy. While I could afford it with 7 CP + Sautekh WL, they often require a re-roll for the D6 shots or the Quantum Deflection stratagem.
Final thoughts:
Imothek the Storm Lord. I'm not sure what to make of him. Yes him bringing an extra CP is nice, and his WL is great. And I also landed a nice Storm which might make me a bit biased. But his MWBD targets just did nothing, leaving him kind of useless just hanging out with them.
Can't draw any conclusions on him yet, but I'll definitely give him another go!
Please put long comments (like lists or battle reports) under spoilers. Otherwise they take up half the page by themselves.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 03:42:09
2018/03/29 03:44:52
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
My opponents list consisted of 2x Coldstar Commanders, 3x basic Fire Warrior squad, a Riptide, 2x Broadsides, a flyer and a Hammerhead. Plenty of drones and Markerlight units in between.
It was Hammer & deployment, I had three objective Markers pretty much in or close to my deployment zone.
With a lucky Seize I managed to get first turn!
Turn 1: Immortals with Imothekh slowly moved up the board, securing an objective marker. Had to be very careful to bubblewrap Imotekh around the Immortals, or else a Coldstar Commander could land right next to him and blow him up.
I decided to MWBD + Veil the Destroyers to get rid of either the Broadsides or the Riptide ASAP. This was a big mistake. While the Destroyer bomb was effective, it left the Gauss Immortals to do nothing for pretty much the rest of the match.
Either way, it was time for the shooting phase.
I started with Imothekh's Storm; who did a grant total of 9 Mortal Wounds spread out over several targets. It's great when your opponent has a big, important unit standing in the middle, means a larger AoE effect for the Storm.
One DDA did 10 wounds to a Riptide, thanks to my opponent failing two drone 'lookout sire's'. But boy are those annoying did I find out later.
The other DDA brought one Broadside down to one wound.
Then the Destroyers came in. With MWBD + their Strategem, they did a grand total of 13 wounds to the Riptide. Sounds good, but I should have split-fired a bit and gotten the wounded Broadside as well.
Opponents turn 1: The Tau retaliate with great force. Combined fire from the Fire Warriors, Cold Star Commanders and the Broadsides brought down the Destroyers. The Hammerhead managed to do 8 wounds to a DDA, which would have been dead were it not for the Quantum Deflection stratagem.
My turn 2: Imotekh and the Tesla Immortals moved up again, they were now in range along with the Tomb Blades.
Gauss Immortals stayed put, they took a beating from the enemy flyer dropping bombs on them.
Shooting:
One DDA one-shotted the flyer.
The other DDA wiffed and did nothing.
Then came the grand idea behind a large part of the list; using the Sautekh stratagem with all the Tesla I had in my list.
The problem was.... it required me to do an unsaved wound! With the DDA missing his shots, the Tesla units now had to deal a wound themselves.
Whiiiich brought me to AP0 vs a 2+ save..... yea. Nothing happened.
Enemy turn 2: The Fire Warriors and Commanders moved up, confident they could take my Immortals and Tomb Blades out. Fire from the Warriors, Broadside and Commanders finished of the Tomb Blades and one squad of Immortals.
Tau just do not care about you being in cover. Smart Missile Systems and plenty of Markerlights is just a big FU to cover.
My turn 3: With what little is left, Imothekh and the Overlord decided to retreat to try and hold as many objectives as possible.
The other Immortal squad, now restored to their original numbers, moved up along an empty flank to try and secure another objective.
Shooting:
A DDA one-shotted the Hammerhead.
The other DDA landed some shots on the Broadside, but those were intercepted by the last remaining drones.
Opponents turn 3: Everything moved up, one Coldstar Commander took out the Gauss Immortals. The other ColdStar + the Broadside managed to do only 4 wounds to a DDA, once again thanks to
Quantum Overload.
At this point the owner of the FLGS wanted to close, so we called it.
Final score: 11 to 7.
Post-match thoughts:
While the match went ok, I felt like I made some big mistakes during the match. That along with several units in my army not working as I wanted them to.
Mistakes: -Why did I rush in so quickly with the Veil'd Destroyers? My opponent's optimal range was 36" and I held three objective markers in my deployment zone. I should have stayed put turn one and let him come to me thanks to the range of the DDA's.
-Another big mistake was greedily Veiling in the Destroyers, leaving the Gauss Immortals to pick their noses in my deployment zone. I should have Veiled them up and simply used the Destroyers superior mobility to make use of both units.
-The 'Enchanced RP' is such a trap stratagem. Yes I got CP's back thanks to the Sautekh WL, but even when 7 Immortals are dead it simply isn't worth it.
-While the Sautekh Strategem sounds awesome, it can sometimes be more difficult to land that one unsaved wound on a priority target than it may seem!
-More specifically against Tau: Get those pesky drones! So many D3 or D6dmg shots from my Destroyers or DDA's were absorbed by them.
Weak units in the list:
-Min Tesla Immortal squads. Such a waste of MWBD and too easily shot of the table. Even the 'save' 24" range of Tesla us usually not enough to keep them away from your opponents guns.
-6x Tomb Blades /w Tesla. Again, I felt like a big unit of 9 would have lived through focus fire.
And the fact they they had Tesla weapons just made them do..... nothing. No AP is just killing. A full squad of 9 with Gauss Blasters, played way more aggressively would have done a lot better.
But, not all is bad though! Here are the positive parts of the army:
-Destroyer bomb. Unsurprisingly, their damage output is absolutely nuts. Even against tough units which you wound on 5+, the re-roll to wound plus their high AP makes them a threat to any enemy unit.
-DDA. By far my MVP's of the match, often blowing up one big unit per turn. They did however, eat through my CP like cotton candy. While I could afford it with 7 CP + Sautekh WL, they often require a re-roll for the D6 shots or the Quantum Deflection stratagem.
Final thoughts:
Imothek the Storm Lord. I'm not sure what to make of him. Yes him bringing an extra CP is nice, and his WL is great. And I also landed a nice Storm which might make me a bit biased. But his MWBD targets just did nothing, leaving him kind of useless just hanging out with them.
Can't draw any conclusions on him yet, but I'll definitely give him another go!
I was thinking about the whole sautekh stratagem vs tau earlier and realized it would not be that hard to do if you use a sautekh obelisk. The pulse will do mortal wounds to a lot of stuff on a 4+, and then you can use the stratagem to pick whatever was wounded to get the best result for the +1 to hit. Also you can use the pulse to take out drones first so they can't "look out sir" the suits they are around. Is it the best option? No, but what at least it gives the obelisk a situational status vs tau compared to junk status.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/03/29 03:46:07
2018/03/29 03:45:27
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Named characters cannot get Artifacts!!!
1st is Free, 2nd costs 1CP, 3rd cost 2CP.
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
"C" Can lower saves for the Overlord to 2+, better choices available.
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result.
"B" Even if you spend 1CP to get this you still get a better result than from "Enhanced Reanimation Protocol" Stratagem that costs 2CP.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". MW on each roll of 6.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP -4, D3)
"B" Very good CC weapon, but do you want to be in CC?
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
"A" Maybe the best default Artifact available, gives much needed mobility, good on bubble wrapped characters like Lord or even a Cryptek if the Overlord has a Artifact.
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A MW on 4+
"C" Overlords have a 4++, Cryptek and Lords are really too weak for CC.
"A" The best upgrade for a CCB as it has no invulnerable save. CCB has the largest base so most likely to benefit from the "at the start of fight phase" MW on 4+ roll on all models within 1", its a flyer so flying over and positioning to maximize potential targets is advisable.
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at tend of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
"A" Exellent choice for the (only unnamed character with Phylactery) Destroyer. Doubles the wound regeneration and gives a free enhanced "Resurrection Protocol" stratagem worth 1CP with D6 wounds instead of 1 wound. Can be resurrected a second time by "Resurrection Protocol" for 1CP.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Repalces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6 AP3 D2 / User AP2 D1
"B" Good against multi wound, a wound roll of 6+ gives extra MW "A" Combined with Warlord trait "Merciless Tyrant" increases range by 6" to 18" and may target a Character! Especially good on a Destroyer Lord as he gets to re-roll to hit and to wound, increasing the chance of rolling 6+ wound for MW.
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, D2, +D3 Attacks.
"B" A good choice for a CC Character.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 D1 in melee)
"C" Weak, should be called the Abysmal Staff. (Honestly should have been a D6MW and then a "B").
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 D1 / AP2 D1. If enemy infantry is hit in shooting phase,on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
"B" Good for a shooty Character.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
"A" Fantastic, essentially one Free reroll worth 1 CP and a FNP 5+++
I don't see why not.
I'll add it to the top post.
I don't mind the grading of relics as a concept but I don't feel there's much depth to the explanations here.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/03/29 04:20:00
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Named characters cannot get Artifacts!!!
1st is Free, 2nd costs 1CP, 3rd cost 2CP.
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
"C" Can lower saves for the Overlord to 2+, better choices available.
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result.
"B" Even if you spend 1CP to get this you still get a better result than from "Enhanced Reanimation Protocol" Stratagem that costs 2CP.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". MW on each roll of 6.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP -4, D3)
"B" Very good CC weapon, but do you want to be in CC?
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
"A" Maybe the best default Artifact available, gives much needed mobility, good on bubble wrapped characters like Lord or even a Cryptek if the Overlord has a Artifact.
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A MW on 4+
"C" Overlords have a 4++, Cryptek and Lords are really too weak for CC.
"A" The best upgrade for a CCB as it has no invulnerable save. CCB has the largest base so most likely to benefit from the "at the start of fight phase" MW on 4+ roll on all models within 1", its a flyer so flying over and positioning to maximize potential targets is advisable.
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at tend of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
"A" Exellent choice for the (only unnamed character with Phylactery) Destroyer. Doubles the wound regeneration and gives a free enhanced "Resurrection Protocol" stratagem worth 1CP with D6 wounds instead of 1 wound. Can be resurrected a second time by "Resurrection Protocol" for 1CP.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Repalces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6 AP3 D2 / User AP2 D1
"B" Good against multi wound, a wound roll of 6+ gives extra MW "A" Combined with Warlord trait "Merciless Tyrant" increases range by 6" to 18" and may target a Character! Especially good on a Destroyer Lord as he gets to re-roll to hit and to wound, increasing the chance of rolling 6+ wound for MW.
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, D2, +D3 Attacks.
"B" A good choice for a CC Character.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 D1 in melee)
"C" Weak, should be called the Abysmal Staff. (Honestly should have been a D6MW and then a "B").
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 D1 / AP2 D1. If enemy infantry is hit in shooting phase,on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
"B" Good for a shooty Character.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
"A" Fantastic, essentially one Free reroll worth 1 CP and a FNP 5+++
I don't see why not.
I'll add it to the top post.
I don't mind the grading of relics as a concept but I don't feel there's much depth to the explanations here.
If you'd care to leave some input about them I can make an edit to the top post.
2018/03/29 04:24:22
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Named characters cannot get Artifacts!!!
1st is Free, 2nd costs 1CP, 3rd cost 2CP.
- Nightmare Shroud: +1 save characteristic, enemies get -1 Ld within 6"
"C" Can lower saves for the Overlord to 2+, better choices available.
- Orb of Eternity: Replaces Res Orb. +1 to the result.
"B" Even if you spend 1CP to get this you still get a better result than from "Enhanced Reanimation Protocol" Stratagem that costs 2CP.
- Gauntlet of Conflagrator: One use only. 8" Pistol 1. Roll a D6 for each model in the target unit within 8". MW on each roll of 6.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voidreaper: Replaces War/Voidscythe. Wounds on 2+ unless targeting vehicles, in which case it has S7. (AP -4, D3)
"B" Very good CC weapon, but do you want to be in CC?
- Veil of Darkness: Bearer and 1 dynasty infantry unit within 3" are removed and can deepstrike 9" away from enemy (unit must be within 6" of bearer)
"A" Maybe the best default Artifact available, gives much needed mobility, good on bubble wrapped characters like Lord or even a Cryptek if the Overlord has a Artifact.
- Lightning Field: 4++. Roll a D6 for enemy units within 1" of the bearer at the start of the fight phase. A MW on 4+
"C" Overlords have a 4++, Cryptek and Lords are really too weak for CC.
"A" The best upgrade for a CCB as it has no invulnerable save. CCB has the largest base so most likely to benefit from the "at the start of fight phase" MW on 4+ roll on all models within 1", its a flyer so flying over and positioning to maximize potential targets is advisable.
- Nanoscarab Casket. Replaces Phylactery. Regains D3 rather than 1, during both your and opponents turn. First time bearer is slain, on 4+ he is set back up at tend of phase, with D6 wounds remaining.
"A" Exellent choice for the (only unnamed character with Phylactery) Destroyer. Doubles the wound regeneration and gives a free enhanced "Resurrection Protocol" stratagem worth 1CP with D6 wounds instead of 1 wound. Can be resurrected a second time by "Resurrection Protocol" for 1CP.
- Sempiternal Weave. Infantry only. +1T and +1W.
"D" Much better choices available.
- Voltaic Staff. Mephrit Relic. Repalces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 3 S6 AP3 D2 / User AP2 D1
"B" Good against multi wound, a wound roll of 6+ gives extra MW "A" Combined with Warlord trait "Merciless Tyrant" increases range by 6" to 18" and may target a Character! Especially good on a Destroyer Lord as he gets to re-roll to hit and to wound, increasing the chance of rolling 6+ wound for MW.
- Blood Scythe. Novokh Relic. Replaces War/Voidscythe. +2 S, AP-4, D2, +D3 Attacks.
"B" A good choice for a CC Character.
- Abyssal Staff. Sauthek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 1. Hits automatically, roll 3D6 if a unit is hit in the shooting phase: equal or greater than LD and unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. (AP-2 D1 in melee)
"C" Weak, should be called the Abysmal Staff. (Honestly should have been a D6MW and then a "B").
- The Solar Staff. Nephrek Relic. Replaces Staff of Light. 12" Assault 6, S5 AP3 D1 / AP2 D1. If enemy infantry is hit in shooting phase,on 4+ they are blinded and cannot overwatch and suffers -1 to hit for rest of turn.
"B" Good for a shooty Character.
- Timesplinter Cloak. Nihilak Relic. Once per battle, re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for the bearer. 5+++.
"A" Fantastic, essentially one Free reroll worth 1 CP and a FNP 5+++
I don't see why not.
I'll add it to the top post.
I don't mind the grading of relics as a concept but I don't feel there's much depth to the explanations here.
If you'd care to leave some input about them I can make an edit to the top post.
I'd love to! Expect a post on the morn as I got work to take care of!
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/03/29 04:43:28
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Hmm, for real?
It's not a scenario that's ever come up for me before.
For reference, where does it talk about that part in the rulebook?
Can't check right now but I think it's in the matched play section where it limits stuff like psychic powers.
Edit: pg 214
But isn't that part "suggested rules" for "organised events"? Anything that's not an organised event, or any event that doesn't want to follow those rules, could have more than 4 detachments. (and the 4 detachment limit is only for 2,001-3,000 armies, also. It's less for a limit of 2k).
2018/03/29 05:10:42
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
em_en_oh_pee wrote: Toss my question back out there - list ideas for the Tesseract Vault? I was thinking about using Deceiver to bring it up to the enemy.
Any other ideas? thoughts? etc
Heres the list i used.
Spoiler:
Nephrek battalion
Overlord-warlord- immortal pride trait
Chronotek with veil
Immortal x10 tesla
Immortal x10 tesla
Immortal x10 gauss
Immortal x10 tesla
Immortal x10 tesla
Immortal x10 gauss
Ctan shard of deciever
DDA Tesseract ark
Super heavy aux
Tesseract vault
The first list performed better over all. The vault took some hits getting in range but still well outperformed its points. The second list with the deciever had the vault do even better. One thing to remember, the vault blowing up is not a bad thing. It explodes on 4+ with 2d6 range and d6 mortal. If you get it right up in their face it can wreak absoulte havock and then cause quite a bit of destruction on the way out too if they do manage to kill it. Both those list come in a little under 2k points. Sorry i dont have exact numbers.
2018/03/29 06:25:23
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Does anyone know yet what the exact limits are on Necron <Dynasty> codes? Like, Transcendent C'tan or Triarch Praetorians don't have <Dynasty>, but I assume adding one into your list doesn't break the dysnasty code, however adding a Sautekh lord would break it (I assume).
Is the general rule some kind of "Characters without <Dynasty> are allowed into <Dynasty> detachments, but may not benefit from the code or stratagems"? Or is the rule "Characters with a <Dynasty> may not be put into any detachments that are not <Dynasty>"?
Basically I'm trying to figure out if there's any wiggleroom for somebody like Imhotekh to be placed into an out of dynasty detachment. I know you can't do it for (eg.) Space Marines, but they also don't have any exceptions like Triarch units.
Also, do Tesseract Vaults get the benefit of Dynasty codes and stratagems? They have <Dynasty> but the also have <C'tan Shards> and I've heard conflicting things about which one gives/excludes dynasty benefits.
2018/03/29 06:56:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
The first list performed better over all. The vault took some hits getting in range but still well outperformed its points.
I cant see how Vault can do more damage than its cost. Could you explain what he managed to destroy?
Halfpast_Yellow wrote: Sautekh Abyssal staff artifact is an 'A', it's one of the best ways to trigger a wound for Methodical Destruction. It's autotake imo.
He competes with with Veil of Darkness, so not autotake. Besides that, for me its also A grade.
2018/03/29 06:58:59
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Xachariah wrote: Does anyone know yet what the exact limits are on Necron <Dynasty> codes? Like, Transcendent C'tan or Triarch Praetorians don't have <Dynasty>, but I assume adding one into your list doesn't break the dysnasty code, however adding a Sautekh lord would break it (I assume).
Is the general rule some kind of "Characters without <Dynasty> are allowed into <Dynasty> detachments, but may not benefit from the code or stratagems"? Or is the rule "Characters with a <Dynasty> may not be put into any detachments that are not <Dynasty>"?
Basically I'm trying to figure out if there's any wiggleroom for somebody like Imhotekh to be placed into an out of dynasty detachment. I know you can't do it for (eg.) Space Marines, but they also don't have any exceptions like Triarch units.
Also, do Tesseract Vaults get the benefit of Dynasty codes and stratagems? They have <Dynasty> but the also have <C'tan Shards> and I've heard conflicting things about which one gives/excludes dynasty benefits.
Vaults are kinda sorta vehicles so i assume they would get Dynastic Codes. As far as triarch and named characters without a dynasty goes, i asssume it's the same as in the case of IG, they SHOULDN'T (it'd be damn slowed if they did) mess with Dynastic codes across a detachment.
2018/03/29 07:01:27
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I don't mind the grading of relics as a concept but I don't feel there's much depth to the explanations here.
Tnx for the feedback, I wanted to keep it as short as possible, the original grading of units is without explanations. 1d4chan will probably have better and more elaborate explanation in due time.
Halfpast_Yellow wrote:Sautekh Abyssal staff artifact is an 'A', it's one of the best ways to trigger a wound for Methodical Destruction. It's autotake imo.
I haven't thought of that. My reasoning for the grade is two fold: 1# Comparative low potential damage output. 2# Lack of range. Especially for your suggested usage, with only 12" range you will probably not often have a chance to focus fire with the rather expensive 2CP stratagem.
Save yourself using 2CP X-times AND a Artifact slot Just get a Stalker or two and use it for ALL dynasties in the army, every turn (until it dies)
Automatically Appended Next Post: This might be a little unconventional. What do you guys think?
Army 1990 pts & 8CP
Spoiler:
The strategy here would be to have 3 groups of 1 DDA, 1 Cryptek and 10 Warriors, preferably not more than 12" from each other, covering a front of ~30". The groups can be played aggressively in front trying to Sautekh mobility, Gauss Flayers from the Warriors and the DDA. OR Defensively with the DDA staying back and Warriors and Cryptek behind it or in close cover, utilize Sautekh mobility to keep range from enemy.
Main role of Crypptek is repairing the DDA (d3 turn) and keeping Warriors alive (If close together Crypteks can repair 3d3 per turn). Warriors are there to keep Cryptek alive and use RP. Use cover if at all possible. DDA role is o just kill s**t, high power stationary or move and low power (without penalty), primarily enemy vehicles.
4th group is sort of mobile reserve. Destroyer group are to be used to kill priority targets and characters, DLord is especially good against characters and 18" range D2 and possible MW. Scarabs can take/hold objective or just go and suicide.
The first list performed better over all. The vault took some hits getting in range but still well outperformed its points.
I cant see how Vault can do more damage than its cost. Could you explain what he managed to destroy?
In the first list. First turn it took out a unit of gaunts with the tesla shots and degraded a flyrant with antimatter meteor and cosmic fire(it took a few hits from other fire as well). Second turn took burned 1 cp to use top profile. Killed 12 genestealers on seismic assualt. 2 more from sky of falling stars along with more wounds on flyrant and one hive guard. Cosmic fire got 3 more stealers. 2 wounds on malanthrope 2 wounds on flyrant 3 wounds on nuero thrope 1 dead hive guard 3 wounds each on two exocrine. Burned one cp to fire a 4th c'Tan power rolled cosmic fire again. Finished off the neurothrope 2 more wounds on malanthrope 3 more each on exocrines putting them at half. Another dead hive guard. Couple more wounds on flyrant. Then shooting finished off gene stealers. On his turn he killed it in shooting phase it blew up. Rolled a 6. Killed both exos the flyrant the malanthrope 2 more hive guard.
The deciever list performed similarly on the powers but i used several times arrow to get rid of hive guard as i went first. And the tesla did most of the work on the gene stealers.
Both games were against tyranids and fairly similar gun battery style lists.
~4100
~1660
