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2018/04/04 02:17:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Okay, thank you! So I just declare it at the beginning. I mainly played with my brother who was way better at it but he moved so now I'm floundering. And my husband is no help he hates the whole thing
2018/04/04 03:25:40
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
necron99 wrote: My problem with the DDA is that in my meta we use the NOVA terrain setup so we have those two annoying LOS blockers in the middle of the table. Trying to come up with decent lanes of fire can be difficult. Too many of my peeps run something that just go through the those guys and pop out right in front of my DDA/LR/etc so I'm a little leery about long range shooters that don't like to move and/or need LOS...hence my love of manticores, bassilisks and mortars...
If I take a DDA in last edition, I take the Ctan Deceiver. I think the same goes this edition.
2018/04/04 04:51:27
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
sieGermans wrote: So, here’s a thing: Nihilak Dynasty Wraiths can run up midfield to an objective and hold it with a 2++ (with CP).
That seems... way good?
This seems very specific to the mission set that you are playing in, as for this to matter you need a few things to align:
1. your opponent doesn't have a method of spamming mortal wounds
2. you can deny all area around the objective so an opponent that has obsec units cant sneak in slightly (requiring you to spend more on this unit and also get on the objective turn 1)
3. There have to be 3 or 4 objectives (more and your opponent can just ignore the wraiths, less and you have really gone wrong if you don't have any objectives)
4. The points for the objectives have to matter a great deal compared to kill points, since you are basically taking a bunch of your points and cp (which necrons can be rather short of) and dumping on a very durab;e paper weight rather than running them as novokh wraiths or just a more killy unit that complements your army)
I wouldn't take this approach personally, if this is what you are trying to achieve I would probably deceiver in a vault (or not depending on objective placement) and spend the cp on that, since it doesn't need to be in combat to be deadly, giving you a 3++ 28W model that can pose a very real threat to the enemy if not dealt with. I was thinking of this strategy but since all tournaments here are ITC the vault just gives up way too many points and doesn't synergise well with the rest of my list.
2018/04/04 05:19:38
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
Even with the fleeing, the squad of 9 fares better in that situation.
Squad of 6:
Squad is wiped and then 1 more from another unit is killed, then a 1/3rd chance to bring back one from RP.
Squad of 6 ends up with 6.666 net dead on average. (6.5 dead on average with Cryptek)
Squad of 9:
1/2 chance to lose 7 and regain 2.333 on average for net 4.666 dead. 1/6th chance to lose 8 and regain 2.666 for net 5.333 dead. 1/3rd chance to lose entire squad to morale for net 9 dead.
Squad of 9 ends up with 6.222 net dead on average. (5.416 dead on average with Cryptek)
2018/04/04 05:33:36
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
sieGermans wrote: So, here’s a thing: Nihilak Dynasty Wraiths can run up midfield to an objective and hold it with a 2++ (with CP).
That seems... way good?
As of right now though, I think that Wraiths really should only be taken as Novokh. While using the Nihilakh stratagem with them would be powerful, The code does nothing else for them. Novokh really helps wraiths become more deadly in close combat, and with the premium you pay, you really want that.
Sasori wrote: As of right now though, I think that Wraiths really should only be taken as Novokh.
Nephrekh ain't bad (super fast Wraiths).
Mephrit with P.Casters, too (S6 AP-1 pistols)
And Sautekh (with Beamers).
Basically any Dynasty except Nihilakh.
I've seen some crazy people suggesting you take them for the Nihilakh +1 to saves strat. That nets you a 2++ on the objective and an extra attack on each of them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 06:48:49
2018/04/04 06:46:48
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
We streamed a game of Custodes Vs necrona. Only lasted 3 turns as it was quite brutal and found the Cron list to be quite good. Head over to www.twitch.tv/glasshammergaming to watch it. I give some tactical insight during the game.
2018/04/04 06:56:31
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
There any merit to taking either one of the named non dynasty HQ's to lead an outrider/vanguard so you don't 'waste' an HQ slot? IE a Novokh Overlord/Lord/Cryptek does almost nothing for a mostly Sautekh detachment when all you wanted were some Novokh wraiths but Szeras can at least give some buffs out to your main force.
2018/04/04 07:04:00
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Sasori wrote: As of right now though, I think that Wraiths really should only be taken as Novokh.
Nephrekh ain't bad (super fast Wraiths).
Mephrit with P.Casters, too (S6 AP-1 pistols)
And Sautekh (with Beamers).
Basically any Dynasty except Nihilakh.
I've seen some crazy people suggesting you take them for the Nihilakh +1 to saves strat. That nets you a 2++ on the objective and an extra attack on each of them.
Those people are insane, and you shouldn’t pay attention to them.
In seriousness, not all combos we find will be useful in 100% of lists and metas, but sometimes you may find that you need a 150pt unit that’s hard as nails for sprinting to an objective and scaring folks off from coming near it. We now know a possible option.
2018/04/04 08:53:56
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
RogueApiary wrote: There any merit to taking either one of the named non dynasty HQ's to lead an outrider/vanguard so you don't 'waste' an HQ slot? IE a Novokh Overlord/Lord/Cryptek does almost nothing for a mostly Sautekh detachment when all you wanted were some Novokh wraiths but Szeras can at least give some buffs out to your main force.
Yeah, Szeras is great in that regard.
Good long distance weapon to use from the back and an ability that works on any troops, regardless of Dynasty.
It's too bad Anrakyr is not as useful...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 08:55:06
2018/04/04 09:25:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/04/04 09:49:18
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Nagerash wrote: I really want to find out if the Doom Scythes are worth it again this edition. And this list seems like a decent way to find out.
It's an easy 1500 point list I made. The only problem I have with trying out the awesome bombardment strategy is that the enemy only needs to kill 1 DS (which isn't that hard) to keep you from using it.
Using the Air wing detachment does allow you to easily get the 3 DS + use Sautekh + gives you 1 CP.
Has anyone else tried using Doom Scythes? or even DS in teams of 3? I do wonder how effective it would be to those annoying lists that turtle with everyone around a few characters.
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment +3CP Mephrit
HQ Illuminor Szeras Warlord
Lord Veil of Darkness, Warscythe
I used them in a game recently and they performed very well. I zoomed them up close turn 1 and popped the stratagem that causes mortal wounds and it was devastating. I killed 18 guardsman and put 7 wounds on a hellhound. Then they could still fire the Tesla. And at half range mephrit the -1 kicked in.
2018/04/04 10:46:46
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Okay guys I've got my first draft list going. Sautekh silver tide for the most part. I am going to play a 2k point tourney this weekend, using ITC rules but CA missions. There's lots of FW, and at least two Guilliman + 2x Fire Raptor lists in the mix. One is a Ultra/Custodes mix, the other is a FW spam with the fire raptors, a sicaran, a deredeo, and some infantry. Outside of that, a pure Custodes, some cultist spam, ynnari reaper spam, and some other "fluffy" armies.
My strategy will be castle up first turn in a corner and try to down any flyers/vehicles with the pylon and heavy D, and then push out with the infantry once the opponent's firepower is depleted, using the scarabs to either screen or hold objectives. The Nightbringer will move with the destroyers for protection and dish out mortal wounds and try to kill infantry with GoD, and then charge any opportune targets that are presented. Cryptek can Veil the warriors or some immortals where needed for last minute objective grabs or to clean up any back line units that become exposed.
Azuza001 wrote:
Plus that staff.... Man, the abysmal staff isn't a joke like some think it is. First in close combat it auto hits. That's 3 automatic hits in melee, at ap-2. He will easily kill a few things each turn it he gets stuck in. Plus at range it deals 1 auto hit that as long as you can roll higher than your targets leadership on 3d6 dice (shouldn't be hard) it deals d3 mortal wounds.
As for partial casters, they are cheap that's their only thing. You get more shots with tessla or gauss so it's a if you want to take them and can't afford more then ok but really they should not be running partial casters.
I may have jumped the gun regarding the staff as my impression from the text was that it was auto hit for shooting.
After reading it a couple more times I agree to what you say, no need to roll for hits in CC (RAW). However I believe that it is not RAI.
If the weapon is auto hit for CC too, then it would be "B", especially on a Cryptek or Lord as they are WS/BS3+.
Now, regarding the Particle Casters I dont agree. TB ending movement inside 12" with anything that can do CC is a terrible idea. As for the Particle Casters, they are less "cool" but for minimal cost & maximum utility the Particle beam TB isn't bad. 9 TB with PB will have 27 shots (+1S), 18 Wounds and are cheaper than 7 Tesla with 28 shots and 14 wounds. The point per wound here is a huge selling point for me.
For 32 pts, you get a 9 TB with PB (3+/5++) or a 9 TB with Tesla (4+). Throw in a CloakCryptec bubbled in a 9 model Particle TB unit and it is very tough and difficult to dislodge. Just stay at 20-24". Tesla is better if you know you are fighting an army without -1 to hit.
Particle TD= 24 points. 3x S6 attack, -1 to hit and 4+
2 Warriors = 24 points. 2-4x S4 AP1, 4+
with 20 Warriors and a Cryptek they can have 5++.. That is 95 pts /20 = 4.75 points per Warrior. The TB gets the same for 5 points. But Warriors cant get 3+, don't have the mobility, T5 and the -1 to hit.
TBH Warriors and TB are ranged units that die fast in CC, TB can use speed Warriors cannot.
The only problem for bikes is that its maybe harder for them to get cover saves.
ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I think that if the enemy uses a turn to focus fire down a TB unit to having 1-3 models left then using 2 CP to auto-pass morale and then get a chance to reanimate (preferably with Cryptek +1) and get ~3 units back is well worth it. Even if it is a Particle TB (especially one with 3+/4++). "Enhanced Reanimation Protocols" are just so expensive but you should get 1 model (24-37 points) for the 2CP, not really worth it but the psychological effect is demoralizing for the enemy if you get a lot of 1s and get to re-roll :p
But is the CloakCryptek wort the 85 points? How many RP will he need to be worthwile?
Then in your turn you should be able to reduce his overall firepower, maneuver (14"+1-6" should do it) the TB to make sure they don't get killed next turn and get another RP. If he goes for the TB again its good for you, something else isn't dying. Budget 18W -1 to hit and 3+/5++ is really a nice profile.
2018/04/04 12:42:44
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
I put a naked list and you equip them as you wish.
Spoiler:
DYNASTY: SAUTECH
-HQ-
CCB -158
Lord (to reroll 1s to wound, is a must) -83
Cryptek with cloak -85
-Troops-
6X5 immortals -510
-Fast-
3X3 scarabs -117
-Elite-
2X5 Deathmark -190
C'Tan Deceiver -225
-Heavy-
3XDDA -579
Total: 1947pts
Now you can probably customise it a little, switch the arks for cheaper heavy destroyers and try to pack destroyers and wraiths in, but the minimum requirement are already expensive. Now let,s discuss the key points:
1) 5 man squads, WTF? With 6 immortals and 2 deathmarks squads that's still 40 boots on the ground. I realise the common line of though about RP, but, my guess is that with 5-man squads the ennemy will tend to overshot a few units, or try to kill to many at once, and you WILL have some 1-2 immortals left over here and there. Since i've been through too many games where my 10 immortals squads get whiped out anyways, i figure you might as well try it.
2) Mortal wound. It depends how you equip your warlord, but this list still has the C'Tan and scarabs that are ready to blow up with the stratagem, and 12CP to boot! And you have the deathmarks, with the Sautekh stratagem i'm gonna discuss below they have an improved chance of getting MWs. That should be enough. Since my list doesn't really make use of the grand illusion, i might switch for the nightbringer. Anyways i figured you must include at least 1 C'Tan now. Like, always.
3) Doomsday arks. My choice of those instead of heavy destroyers is more than just the big cannon. They can also deal out up to 60 rapid fire S4 AP-1 shots to support your immortal against nasty infantry swarms, and are though nuts to crack. The cryptek is there to repair D3 wounds, and you got enough stratagems to boost quantum shields or have a broken barge fire fully.
4) Dynasty. This list screams Mephrit, but i'm gonna go Sautekh instead. Why? First, assault doomsday cannon and no penalty on heavy fire for DDA and CCB. I figure i'd spend the first turn or 2 to kill of any target that can damage my arks, then start move forward shooting the low power gun, which is strong enough for anything but the biggest monsters/vehicules. Second, the best stratagem out there for Sautekh: 2CP +1 to hit for all sautekh that shoot at the same target (that was wounded). You wound it with your CCB and then proceed. It makes for KILLER Tesla (especially in this list where you can't MWBD 6 units) and if i read correctly will even have DDA that hit on 2+.
So that's the idea anyway. 12CP to use... miam miam.
2018/04/04 12:59:30
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Azuza001 wrote:
Plus that staff.... Man, the abysmal staff isn't a joke like some think it is. First in close combat it auto hits. That's 3 automatic hits in melee, at ap-2. He will easily kill a few things each turn it he gets stuck in. Plus at range it deals 1 auto hit that as long as you can roll higher than your targets leadership on 3d6 dice (shouldn't be hard) it deals d3 mortal wounds.
As for partial casters, they are cheap that's their only thing. You get more shots with tessla or gauss so it's a if you want to take them and can't afford more then ok but really they should not be running partial casters.
I may have jumped the gun regarding the staff as my impression from the text was that it was auto hit for shooting.
After reading it a couple more times I agree to what you say, no need to roll for hits in CC (RAW). However I believe that it is not RAI.
If the weapon is auto hit for CC too, then it would be "B", especially on a Cryptek or Lord as they are WS/BS3+.
Now, regarding the Particle Casters I dont agree. TB ending movement inside 12" with anything that can do CC is a terrible idea. As for the Particle Casters, they are less "cool" but for minimal cost & maximum utility the Particle beam TB isn't bad. 9 TB with PB will have 27 shots (+1S), 18 Wounds and are cheaper than 7 Tesla with 28 shots and 14 wounds. The point per wound here is a huge selling point for me.
For 32 pts, you get a 9 TB with PB (3+/5++) or a 9 TB with Tesla (4+). Throw in a CloakCryptec bubbled in a 9 model Particle TB unit and it is very tough and difficult to dislodge. Just stay at 20-24". Tesla is better if you know you are fighting an army without -1 to hit.
Particle TD= 24 points. 3x S6 attack, -1 to hit and 4+
2 Warriors = 24 points. 2-4x S4 AP1, 4+
with 20 Warriors and a Cryptek they can have 5++.. That is 95 pts /20 = 4.75 points per Warrior. The TB gets the same for 5 points. But Warriors cant get 3+, don't have the mobility, T5 and the -1 to hit.
TBH Warriors and TB are ranged units that die fast in CC, TB can use speed Warriors cannot.
The only problem for bikes is that its maybe harder for them to get cover saves.
ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Ridge wrote: On morale, the worst you can get with 9 with no negatives to morale is having to role a 1 or 2 with 8 casualties, which isn't great but doesn't particularly mean you are losing out on many. From experience, squads die fast, squads of 6 will usually result in you not getting much back from reanimation as they will most likely kill a squad and try and fire at another part of my army to avoid wasted fire.
Running squads of 6 also allows them more kills which can potentially edge them in front in kills per round resulting in them getting more points. Squads of 6 are certainly more versatile but I think you underestimate Leadership 10.
Squad of 9:
LD 10. They kill 7 (10-7=3) on 4 1 flee, 5+ - 2 .
I think reanimation is overestimated. It's a nice bonus but building army around it does not worth it.
I think that if the enemy uses a turn to focus fire down a TB unit to having 1-3 models left then using 2 CP to auto-pass morale and then get a chance to reanimate (preferably with Cryptek +1) and get ~3 units back is well worth it. Even if it is a Particle TB (especially one with 3+/4++). "Enhanced Reanimation Protocols" are just so expensive but you should get 1 model (24-37 points) for the 2CP, not really worth it but the psychological effect is demoralizing for the enemy if you get a lot of 1s and get to re-roll :p
But is the CloakCryptek wort the 85 points? How many RP will he need to be worthwile?
Then in your turn you should be able to reduce his overall firepower, maneuver (14"+1-6" should do it) the TB to make sure they don't get killed next turn and get another RP. If he goes for the TB again its good for you, something else isn't dying. Budget 18W -1 to hit and 3+/5++ is really a nice profile.
Yeah, a few more Posts down from when I wrote that I agreed that I jumped the gun on partical caster tomb blades. If you have 9 and want the firepower of 7 double tessla than by all means go for it, math says it's the same but with more wounds. However I also point out not everyone has 9, and if you want the firepower of 9 but can only afford 6 then tessela will get you close.
2018/04/04 14:12:11
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Some guys are complaining about RP.
RP isn't a IWIN but its not bad coupled with T4+ in the army and 4+ or better saves with possible 5++ saves as well it has potential.
Cryptek worth it?
TB unit will need to roll "4" 2-3 times to cover the cost of the CloakCryptek's 85 points. So not necessarily?
Warriors will need to roll "4" 6-7 times but get 5++ too, probably, but morale/CP is a problem.
If choosing between Cryptek and Ghost Ark for RP, then the GA is better (25%) than Cryptek (17%), both together is best.
Is there any reason not to initially deploy Destroyers with Crypteks for a 18W 3+/5++ profile? Are they getting popped first turn Alpha with the 5++?
Lychguard
I don't think that Lychguard are good in this edition. I love the model though.
I have been trying to think of a good use for them, what do you guys think about this?
Spoiler:
This should be Novokh or Nephrekh Dynasty, Novokh has a better warlord trait, Nephrek gives speed to OL/Lord/Cryptek and Lychguard to keep up with C'tan.
Not neccesary, but I would suggest: Crimson Haze or Immortal Pride & Blood Scythe, Orb of Eternity Veil or even Nightmare Shroud.
Vanguard (+1CP) 769 pts
Lord w/Warscythe & Orb (119) - re-roll 1s to wound and only one Lychguard needs to be resurected to pay Orb.
C'tan Deceiver (225)
10 Lychguard Sword&Board (340)
5 Flayed ones (170) or more Lychguard
Or cheaper even cheaper
Vanguard (+1CP) 715 pts
Cryptek w/Chronometron (95) +1RP and 5++
C'tan (225)
10 Lychguard w/Warscythe (300) More Damadge & 5++ from Cryptek
5 Deathmarks (95)
Anrakyr (167) could be nice too, he doesn't buff the C'tan though and no ORB.
The C'tan should take 1# Lychguard 2# Lord/Cryptek 3# If lucky a free slot for somthing like 20 Warriors or 10 Immortals for disposable fire.
Lychguard is mostly here as a Bodyguard to bubble-wrap and take wounds for the C'tan. Honestly I see this as maybe the best roles I can imagine, keep the c'tan alive to spam powers on the enemy.
Or going all in with a C'tan Bomb? 1994 pts & 4 CP
Spoiler:
Vanguard -Novokh- [Re-roll hit rolls; CC] (+1CP-1CP=0CP) 1096 pts
CCB w/Tesla, Warscythe, Orb & Lightning Field (197) WoC almost wasted here.
CloakCryptek w/Veil (85) repair CCB and +1 to RP for Lychguard
Ctan Deceiver (225)
Ctan Nightbringer (210)
10 Lychguard Sword&Board (340)
3 Scarabs (39)
Could take a DLord w/Warscythe and Nanoscarabs +5 Scarabs instead but then no ORB for the Lychguard!
Better then to have a Lord (re-roll 1s to wound) w/ SoL, ORB & Immortal Pride +6 Scarabs.
Deceiver 1# Nightbringer, 2# CCB 3# TB?
Cryptek veils himself and the Lychguard.
If CCB cant be moved by Deceiver they should fly to the Deceiver. Bubble-wrapped with TB with (3+/5++) and a CloakCryptek he should be rather safe.
Spearhead -Nihilakh- [Reroll 1s to hit; ranged] (+1CP) 896
CloakCryptek (85) for TB or DDA 9 TB w/Tesla, Shield&Shadow. (360)
DDA (193)
DDA (193)
Spyder (65) For DDA with no Gunz.
2018/04/04 14:12:28
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
The stratagy is simple, you have no heavy targets so any heavy weapons your opponent takes will be useless. Waste those laz cannon shots on warriors, see what happens. The deceiver can move the overlord and itself up, hopefully with one squad of immortals. Cryptek can move the warriors up. Finally the 5 left over immortals can advance up or go for a back objective, having the sautekh trait means they can advance and still shoot so your army is fast. The deceiver is deadly with his mortal wound abilities. Nothing will run from moral thanks to the cryptek, and you even get a deny the witch ability. And the scarabs can run interference.
I've iterated a bit on your suggestion and decided to maximize my firepower by adding in Szeras for some minimal anti-tank as well as changing to Mephrit for -1 AP. I found that -3 AP Gauss Blasters are brutal to almost anything, and switching the Overlord for a Lord allows me to be a bigger threat to high-wound units and vehicles. I do lose some chaff as I only have 3 scarabs, but if played correctly and with Szeras buff I may be able to hold off in melee in case I get tangled in. I'd use the Warriors as chaff in this manner, using the Gauss Immortals as my firebase and the Deceiver to counter-charge.
Spoiler:
Mephrit Battalion
Szeras (trait: Immortal Pride, eldritch lance)
Lord (Veil of Darkness, Staff of Light)
Deceiver
20x Warriors
10x Immortas (Gauss)
5x Immortals (Tesla)
3x Scarabs
It's all aimed at alpha striking turn 1 by moving up Zseras and warriors with the Deceiver and veiling in the Lord and the Gauss Immortals. Tesla Immortals can advance to also contribute.
The key is preparing the deploy for the chance of losing initiative. If I'm counting I'll go second I'll set-up in a divided flank: I set up my large blob of Warriors on one flank, followed by the Veil Lord. Depending on who started, that could mean either 2 or 3 of my opponent's units are down already. If he bites the bait and sets up to counter me I'll just drop deceiver in that same flank to keep the ruse and then deploy everything else on the other corner, redeploying deceiver and the two units away before he starts (I'd always deploy the lord hidden so I can just bring 1 unit and leave him behind if needed). That game then is a slow march up midfield until I'm in killing range, not ideal, but doable on a 4x4,
It's not like at 1k people can easily wipe my 20 warrior blob, and if they move in CC they have to contend with all the mortal wounds the deceiver is generating from Cosmic Fire and Sky of falling stars.
What do you guys think? I could also just drop the 3 scarab bases for 2 extra immortals on the 5 man unit, I'm afraid these may give out First Blood too easily.
I think Gauss is the way to go in tourneys there is just too much -1 top hit out there.
As far as building a comp tourney list things to consider are the list you are going to come up against and how to handle them.
Ask how to handle the following:
Guilliman Gunline/Raptors
Chaos Soup/Monty
Tyranid Flyrants and Genestealers Kraken (fast) and Kronos
Eldar- Dark Reapers/Shinning Spears Altioc/Ynarri cheese
Mortal Wound Spam list
Necrons need to craft a list to play against all of these. Split Chapter Tactics (Dynastys) seems common in a lost of list. This might be something to consider.
Assume its ITC missions with points for Objectives and secondaries. Things to keep in mind would be limiting warrior squads to x19 rather than 20 to deny secondary points etc... You need to keep these things in mind.
We also need to keep in mind how do the Necron Alpha Strike and which stratagems to burn turn 1 to maximize that.
Cryptecs, C'tan, Warriors, Scarabs, Doomsday arks, destroyers, tomb blades seem to be the best units IMO. I would stay away from any Tesla (yes i know its good on paper, but you will run into -1 to hit in any major tourney.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
With a lot of -1 to hit in ITC (nurgle, eldar, dark eldar, ravenguard etc) running Tesla is very very scary. You're paying a lot of extra points with a big chance to get bad matchup.
For practice beamers you get +1 STR so wounding on 2s eldars, guard, daemons etc, it costs less points and not affected by -1 to hit in a such a way as tesla does.
Don't forget Nids (malanthropes, Venomthropes Kraken WL trait). Nids did quiet well at adepticon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/04 14:31:03
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Nagerash wrote: Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
He's one of my favorite HQ models. I could see Anrakyr being situationally useful if you were going up against a vehicle-heavy list due to his mind control ability (MC the enemy's titan in an Apoc game) and Tachyon Arrow, but I can't think of any way to build a strategy around him.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2018/04/04 14:51:47
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Anrankyr can actually do wonders for a silver tide list. That extra attack really does matter and when combined with the novokh dynasty and someone with the immortal pride warlord trait becomes scary blocks of metal that will not fold in CC and can actually win combats.
Easiest answer to a fire raptor is a pylon. You'll kill it in a turn. Then, its slightly less effective vs ground targets. Not sure why that is particularly hard to handle?
Your opponent also can't stop it from happening since the pylon deep strikes in...
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/04/04 15:02:21
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
got my first tournament with the codex this weekend, currently still debating a pylon list or two doomsday's and more destroyers list.
Though my main worry is hoard spam. know at least one person is bringing 100's of orc boys, and not sure if i have the fire power to stop it before i get slaughtered
anyone got any suggestions?
Spoiler:
Necron Army list
Command Points: 7
Battalion Detachment
Keyword: Sautekh
HQ: Catacomb Command Barge (138) Staff of Light (10) Gauss cannon (20)
= 169pts (warlord : 1 reroll per game and cp back on 5+)
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Gauss x 5 (45) = 85pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Detachment total = 894
Outrider Detachment
Keyword: nephrekh
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Wraiths x 6 = 330pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Detachment total = 1106
Army Total = 2000/2000pts
Have posted list before but open to suggestions for the hoard spam
Rottweiler wrote: Lychguard is mostly here as a Bodyguard to bubble-wrap and take wounds for the C'tan.
I hope you're not planning on using the Lychguard Guardian Protocols ability with the C'tan.
(while it *is* a character, it does *not* have a <Dynasty>, and as the Guardian Protocols ability only works on <Dynasty> Characters, it's no good in their case).
2018/04/04 15:15:53
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
I've been a busy writing something up. It's a guide on the Power of the C'tan.
Let me know what you think:
Spoiler:
Guide to C'tan Powers; Wrath of the Star Gods
Since the release of the Necron codex, the C'tan Shards have been given new reality-warping powers at their disposal.
This guide will help you select the best powers for each opponent, as well as information on how to best use the selected powers.
First, let's re-cap what each power exactly does and rank them in order of usefulness and power. The powers will be ranked for both regular C'tan Shards and the Tesseract Vault. Feel free to disagree and let me know why!
Anti-Matter Meteor
Pick the closest visible enemy unit. 24". Roll a single D6, on a 2+ that target suffers D3 mortal wounds. On a roll of a 6+, the target suffers D6 mortal wounds.
The Vault does D6 mortal wounds on a roll of a 5+.
Regular: A
Vault: B
The bread&butter of the C'tan powers, this power is ranked A because of its reliability. Other powers require the enemy to be at a specific range or have a specific amount of models/wounds to be effective. Meteor will always do it's job no matter what enemy.
There is one catch though; the fact that it always hits the closest enemy model. This means it could be wasted on enemy chaff units. Be sure to position your C'tan properly so the Meteor hits something worthwhile!
As for Meteor on the Vault, it maintains pretty much the same function, with a somewhat higher chance of getting D6 mortal wounds. But you pick Meteor for its reliability, not because you are feeling lucky for a 5+ roll. (unless you ARE feelin' lucky....)
Time's Arrow Pick an enemy unit within 18" and visible to the C'tan. If you roll higher than the maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT, a single model is slain. The Vault requires you to roll equal instead of higher to the amount of maximum wounds the unit has. A roll of a 1 always fails.
Regular: B
Vault: A
The C'tans sniping ability. While it's range is on the short-side, it can be extremely useful to pick off low-wound characters to disrupt your opponent strategy. However, the fact that you need to roll HIGHER than the maximum wounds of the unit makes it quite unreliable on anything with more than three wounds.
Also note that it's the highest maximum wound characteristic of the UNIT. That there darn Dark Reaper squad with a 2 wound Exarch? It will require a 3+ for Time's Arrow to work.
The Vault significantly increases the chance of the Arrow to succeed, making it an excellent power for them.
It is also a great power to pick up against powerful multi-wound units, like Custodes, Wraithguard etc.
Also note; a model is SLAIN by Time's Arrow. Not even FNP saves can be taken against this.
Sky of the Falling Stars (sky)
Select three enemy units within 18" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each unit. The Vault subtracts one from this roll. If you roll lower than the amount of models in the unit, it takes D3 mortal wounds.
A roll of a 6 always fails.
Regular: A
Vault: C
An excellent ability that let's you deal out multiple mortal wounds to multiple targets! What's not to love? As long as the unit has 6 or more models, it has 5/6th chance to do it's job. This is why I ranked it quite low on the Vault; the Vault doesn't improve the ability by that much.
There is one big catch; as the game goes on and enemy units are down to a few models per unit, this power will start to lose it's effect. The Vault will be able to dish out wounds with it for a bit longer, but it's main power is the first few turns against medium to large enemy units.
Cosmic Fire
Roll a D6 for each enemy unit that is within 9" of the C'tan. On a 4+, that unit suffer D3 mortal wounds. The Vault wounds units on a 3+.
Regular: B
Vault: A
This ability has the potential to deal the most mortal wounds out of all the powers, if you can get the C'tan close enough. This can make it somewhat situational: In my opinion, you shouldn't suicide your C'tan Shard in unless there is another dangerous unit that your opponents needs to focus, or the C'tan itself is the distraction for your other powerful units. But, keep in mind; a C'tan pretty much always wants to get close. All but the Vault are amazing in melee and, they explode on a 4+.
This ability is ranked A on the Vault not only because it greatly increases the reliability of the power, but also due to its enormous size which will let you hit a lot more enemy units with Cosmic Fire.
Seismic Assault Select a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan. Roll a D6 for each model in that unit; on a 6+ that unit suffers a mortal wound. The Vault deals mortal wounds on a 5+ per model instead.
Regular:C
Vault: B
The ability speaks for itself; its anti-horde. As soon as a mob of Ork boyz or Genestealers appear on the table, this ability will go up to rank A. I remember somewhere in a Necron guide that Seismic Assault will do more mortal wounds on average than Meteor if the enemy unit has 11 or more models in it. But this was before the Meteor did D6 wounds on a 6+.
Trans dimensional Thunderbolt
Pick a visible enemy unit within 24" of the C'tan, other than a <10 wound character. Roll a D6; a on 4+ (3+ for Vault) that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Then, roll a D6 for each other enemy unit within 3" of the previously struck unit. On a 4+ that unit suffer one mortal wound.
Regular: B
Vault: C
I'm not to sure on this one. On one hand it seems like an inferior version of Meteor, but on the other hand you can freely pick your target without caring about their model size or wounds. The 'AoE' effect of it depends on how tightly packed your enemy units are and how big the unit is you are targeting. A big blob of small units or a large monster will cover a large area, thus resulting in a more targets getting hit by the AoE effect.
Alrighty, that's the basics covered. Now let's go over on when to pick each power depending on the situation.
keep in mind You pick your C'tan powers right before the first unit is deployed. That means that stuff like enemy army roster, terrain, deployment zone/type etc. can all be taken into consideration when picking the powers for your C'tan.
So, let's go over a couple of scenarios?
Can your C'tan close the distance quickly either via Deceiver's Grand Illusion, T. C'tan 12" advance or some other way?
Regular: Cosmic Fire, Sky of the Falling Stars/Meteor
Vault: Cosmic Fire, Meteor, Time's Arrow, Thunderbolt
Does your opponents army have 2-3 wound models or important 3-4 wound characters?
Next up, I wanted to talk about the order in which the Vault can best use his powers, depending on the targets he is facing.
Horde, buffed by a FNP character
Arrow -> Seismic Assault -> Thunderbolt
Time's arrow on whatever is giving the horde FNP (Ork painboy, Deathguard plague surgeon) to make sure your mortal wounds won't get saved. Then, follow up by Seismic assault and lastly Thunderbolt. You want as many models in the horde as possible for Seismic Assault, hence why you do that before Thunderbolt. And lastly, the horde probably covers quite a lot of ground (maybe it's konga-lined to protect charges) this will let Thunderbolt's AoE effect hit a lot of targets.
Primaris marine squads, Custodes etc
Sky -> Arrow -> Meteor
This is a tough one; one the one hand you want to start with Sky, since the squads still have all the models thus making it most likely to go off. However, if you only wound a model with Sky, the 'slain' effect from Arrow is wasted on a wounded model.
Lastly, let's go over the two stratagems the C'tan Shards can use.
Wrath of the C'tan, 2 CP
Use this power after a C'tan Shard has used a power. Roll a D6; the C'tan Shard immediately uses the rolled uses that power, even if he has used it before.
Oef, this is a tough one. A random power for two whole CP? I'd definitely only use this if you have a Vault. And even then, you have to make sure as many of the 'optimal' conditions for each power are available. So;
-Is the Vault 9" close to several enemy units?
-are there 3 enemy units with 5 or more models in there?
-Is there a unit with 11 or more models in it nearby?
-Is there a 2-4 wound model that is worthwhile nearby?
Have by some miracle all these conditions been met? Sure, go ahead and use this stratagem.....
Cosmic Powers
Use this stratagem at the start of your turn. Select a C'tan Shard; replace one of his powers with a new C'tan power for the rest of the game.
Interesting. This gives us a way to be flexible with the situational powers. For instance, if there are no more enemy 5-6 model infantry units left, you might want to replace Sky. Or have the enemy hordes been dealt with? Perhaps you can replace Seismic Assault. I would however only recommend this on Vaults or T. C'tan with 2 powers. Regular C'tan usually have either Meteor or Thunderbolt and can only cast one power anyway.
There is also another use. Say you didn't pick Cosmic Fire, but for some reason your C'tan got close enough to your opponents army and it would have been perfect if you gave him Cosmic Fire at the start! Well now you can give that to him. Just keep in mind that it's at the START of your turn. If you have to rely on a high advance roll in order to get into a nice position for Cosmic Fire, it might not work out as you have hoped!
2018/04/04 15:19:24
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
Dynas wrote: I think Gauss is the way to go in tourneys there is just too much -1 top hit out there.
As far as building a comp tourney list things to consider are the list you are going to come up against and how to handle them.
Ask how to handle the following:
Guilliman Gunline/Raptors
Chaos Soup/Monty
Tyranid Flyrants and Genestealers Kraken (fast) and Kronos
Eldar- Dark Reapers/Shinning Spears Altioc/Ynarri cheese
Mortal Wound Spam list
Necrons need to craft a list to play against all of these. Split Chapter Tactics (Dynastys) seems common in a lost of list. This might be something to consider.
Assume its ITC missions with points for Objectives and secondaries. Things to keep in mind would be limiting warrior squads to x19 rather than 20 to deny secondary points etc... You need to keep these things in mind.
We also need to keep in mind how do the Necron Alpha Strike and which stratagems to burn turn 1 to maximize that.
Cryptecs, C'tan, Warriors, Scarabs, Doomsday arks, destroyers, tomb blades seem to be the best units IMO. I would stay away from any Tesla (yes i know its good on paper, but you will run into -1 to hit in any major tourney.)
Automatically Appended Next Post:
With a lot of -1 to hit in ITC (nurgle, eldar, dark eldar, ravenguard etc) running Tesla is very very scary. You're paying a lot of extra points with a big chance to get bad matchup.
For practice beamers you get +1 STR so wounding on 2s eldars, guard, daemons etc, it costs less points and not affected by -1 to hit in a such a way as tesla does.
Don't forget Nids (malanthropes, Venomthropes Kraken WL trait). Nids did quiet well at adepticon.
I think a mix is more appropriate. All in on Gauss misses out on the powerful 24" camping of Tesla against armies with no -1 to hit, and all in on Tesla gets rocked by Raven Guard/Alaitoc/Malanthropes/etc, or even just high armor armies like Custodes that are going to get in their face. And a mix also gives you variable threats against balanced lists that are going to have different targets, as well.
Not entirely sold on Beamers, though. Sure cheap and have uses, but generally is going to lack power compared to the other options, especially when you get into that 12" range (which they do quite easily).
moonsmite wrote: got my first tournament with the codex this weekend, currently still debating a pylon list or two doomsday's and more destroyers list.
Though my main worry is hoard spam. know at least one person is bringing 100's of orc boys, and not sure if i have the fire power to stop it before i get slaughtered
anyone got any suggestions?
Spoiler:
Necron Army list
Command Points: 7
Battalion Detachment
Keyword: Sautekh
HQ: Catacomb Command Barge (138) Staff of Light (10) Gauss cannon (20)
= 169pts (warlord : 1 reroll per game and cp back on 5+)
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Gauss x 5 (45) = 85pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Detachment total = 894
Outrider Detachment
Keyword: nephrekh
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Wraiths x 6 = 330pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Detachment total = 1106
Army Total = 2000/2000pts
Have posted list before but open to suggestions for the hoard spam
You're more suited to kill elites than hordes, so if you want to tailor to it then you need to change some stuff. I would consider dropping the Destroyers entirely, making that a Novokh detachment, and getting more Wraiths/Scarabs. Then maybe bump up the Immortal units a few models.
In general, it's a solid list though. Maybe a bit too much into Destroyers (two units is strong but feels a bit like overkill), but depending on your opponent quite good.
2018/04/04 15:38:02
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
moonsmite wrote: got my first tournament with the codex this weekend, currently still debating a pylon list or two doomsday's and more destroyers list.
Though my main worry is hoard spam. know at least one person is bringing 100's of orc boys, and not sure if i have the fire power to stop it before i get slaughtered
anyone got any suggestions?
Spoiler:
Necron Army list
Command Points: 7
Battalion Detachment
Keyword: Sautekh
HQ: Catacomb Command Barge (138) Staff of Light (10) Gauss cannon (20)
= 169pts (warlord : 1 reroll per game and cp back on 5+)
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Tesla x 5 (45) = 85pts
Troop: Immortal x 5 (40) Gauss x 5 (45) = 85pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Heavy Support: Doomsday Ark = 193pts
Detachment total = 894
Outrider Detachment
Keyword: nephrekh
HQ: Cryptek(70) Staff of Light (10) Cape (5) = 85
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Fast attack: Canoptek Scarabs x 3 = 39pts
Wraiths x 6 = 330pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Destroyer x 6 (180) Gauss Cannon x 6 (120) = 300pts
Detachment total = 1106
Army Total = 2000/2000pts
Have posted list before but open to suggestions for the hoard spam
I would drop one unit of Tesla immortals, merge the remaining 2 into 1 large unit of 10. Drop a unit of 6 destoryers,
add warrior blobs with the 385 points you have. Should be able to get you around 2 blobs of 16. THis will help with your horde spam, give you some bodies for board control, and let you get Obj Secured troops.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Nagerash wrote: Anrakyr was always one of my favorite characters, and I would love it to read more books about him, and his quest, but appart from an anti-assault role, or some Deceiver shananigens I really don't see a good list with him.
I might try to make a Nihilakh or Novokh list with him as an deterrend vs assault armies. And if I don't have to run up the field but mainly do counter charges, teaming him up with some Praetorians works as well. Might even throw in Szeras.
But that is a very niche list that would make use of him. I really think GW forgot somehow with Anrakyr that 5" really is very slow if you can only walk from point to point.
The way I see Anrakyr is that if you have a couple extra points, he's barely more than a standard overlord, you replace your overlord with him to foo the exact same job, but with a bonus that your troop blobs near him are now more dangerous to charge, still not great in melee but a deterrent, while he himself hits the magic 8 str, and his arrow can be clutch.
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
10000+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
4000 pts
