Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**skoffs**

Xachariah wrote:
Trying to put both shadowlooms and shieldvanes on 9x models is a 25% increase per model. If you're not expecting to get shot at by a dozen lascannons, you can save 30 points by putting looms on 3 models instead of 6, and save another 18 points by doing the same with Shieldvanes. You get most of the benefit of the upgrades at 1/3rd the price.

Speaking of thirds,
I'm considering running 9 TBs in a unit,
3 with Shields
3 with Looms
3 naked
For the simple reasoning of being able to better distribte incoming hits, as outlined above.
(though maybe a 4/4/1 split might be better. Will experiment)

As far as arming them and Dynasty goes,
For a unit of 9 I'm going to go Tesla (with Mephrit so I can maximize my efficiency with Talent for Annihilation, or Sautekh so I can give them +1 to hit with Methodical Destruction).
If I was going 6 maybe Gauss. (Dynasty is less important there)
If I was taking 3 I'd assume it was because I wanted something cheap to fill a slot, so would consider P.Beamers then (probably Mephrit there as well just to give them a little more punch, but Nephrekh wouldn't be bad if I just want them zooming around to Objectives, which is probably what the primary goal of a unit of 3 would be).

**Venerable Ironclad**

You know we have mentioned taking mixed upgrades on the tomb blades to maximize performance, but I don't think we have done the same thing for mixed weapons.

At what point does 18 gauss blasters become overkill. Maybe half of them could be partical blasters to save on points. Or mix gauss and tesla and you can take casualties based on what your opponent has on there side of the field.

**ScarletRose**

So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.

I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.

I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.

**Inevitableq**

So with tomb blades on a unit of 9 im thinking 9x shield vanes
6x nebuloscope 3x loom. Weapons variable since i magnetized them. What are peoples opinions on the scope. Is it worth it? Or should we rely on the strategem instead?

**Solar Shock**

Can someone tell me why Nightscythes are a D category this edition?

I always liked the idea of invasion beams, and the 1CP for 2 units from invasion beams sounds fun. I was thinking a 1500 list like;

2x DDA
Nightscythe
Deciever
VoD
Deathmarks

So the idea being playing around minimal drops. Having most of the infantry arrive via beams. Having the ability to reposition my deployment and having very few targets turn 1. VoD gives me some additional midgame teleport shinanigans.

But why is the Nightscythe so lowly ranked? is it the risk of getting downed? thus by having 2 units in reserves is a bad idea, as the 1CP in the event of a scythe dying means I lose 1 unit.

Is the Doomscythe that muchy better as a single unit? Basically I have 1 that I can make as either/magnetised and i want to run it.

**MarkM**

Necron_Mason wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:

These costs are not correct if you're giving them the same non-gun upgrades.

Edited. Thank you for pointing that out. Honestly have no idea how that happened lol. My point still stands, even more so now that it is 25% point discount for 50% power reduction.

I love 1-sided math hammer

What about the fact that for the same points I get several more wounds, making them more survivable? More likely to trigger RP. Or cover more ground. Or that a cheaper unit allows me to fit in an extra destroyer?
Math Hammer is a tool - it is not and never will be - the whole picture.

**stormcraft**

I think both Flyers are bad because they are way to easy to kill.

12 T6 3+ wounds will drop exremely easy.

My Fireraptor is 14 T7 3+ wound and can get a 5++ oder 5+++ depending on the list, and still drops regularly on T1.

Second, compare the firepower between a DoomSycthe and a Doomsday Ark:
W3 Shots S10 -4 D6 (on a 4+ unless Sautekh)
vs
W6 Shots S10 -5 D6 .

Sure the Ark has to stand still, but it costs less points and is waaaayy more durable because of QS.

PS:
Additionally the DS Stratagem is one of the worst ever:

So you gonna give up 600Pts of Shooting to get a 66% Chance to do ca. 6 Mortal Wounds? And only if you get first turn, because everyone will kill at least one of the DSs if you put 3 on the table....

**Aza'Gorod**

stormcraft wrote:
I think both Flyers are bad because they are way to easy to kill.

12 T6 3+ wounds will drop exremely easy.

My Fireraptor is 14 T7 3+ wound and can get a 5++ oder 5+++ depending on the list, and still drops regularly on T1.

Second, compare the firepower between a DoomSycthe and a Doomsday Ark:
W3 Shots S10 -4 D6 (on a 4+ unless Sautekh)
vs
W6 Shots S10 -5 D6 .

Sure the Ark has to stand still, but it costs less points and is waaaayy more durable because of QS.

PS:
Additionally the DS Stratagem is one of the worst ever:

So you gonna give up 600Pts of Shooting to get a 66% Chance to do ca. 6 Mortal Wounds? And only if you get first turn, because everyone will kill at least one of the DSs if you put 3 on the table....

I agree with you, it looks nice on paper, but there's very few armies I can see it earning it's points back against. I know someone who plays pure custodes so I'll try it against them.
Other then that it's very much a one trick pony

Edit: one thing that annoys me about the codex is the amount of equipment exclusive to certain units. Why wouldn't a cryptek mount shadowlooms on a NS/DS, it's such a fragile unit and with a 5++ it would be that bit more survivable

**Solar Shock**

Thank you for the responses. I see what you mean about its output and comparable survivability. I still want to run one, I think i'll run it as a nightscythe

Spoiler:

I think if I run it as a nightscythe il get the most fun from it. With 2x DDA starting on the board and hopefully minimal other drops, it will either; Get focussed hard, giving the DDA's a pass turn 1. Or it will get ignored and I can fly it around like a bad-ass moon Sh*tting out robo-orks

The rest of my list is; wraiths, scarabs, deceiver and infantry. waiting on dex to flesh it out, but should be mobile and good for casual games.

**krodarklorr**

EnTyme wrote:
Example: My Necrons come from a dynasty I created (Zarith). Their color scheme is black shoulders with green accents and gold trimming on top of a silver necrodermis. The vehicles are primarily green. This doesn't align with any standard dynasty. It's most similar to Sautekh, but not exactly like it. The Dynastic Code that fits my playstyle best, though, is Mephrit, so that's the code I use. As long as I'm consistent and don't change the code from battle to battle to gain an advantage, no one has a problem with this.

I feel you. I was feeling Novokh for my dynasty (My overlord is very fond of the Voidreaper, and his Vargard will now employ the Bloodscythe). But at the same time, my usual playstyle also involves heavy infantry and shooting, so Mephrit also appeals. So realistically, I'll be playing multiple lists and tactics, but I don't know which tactic I'll make my "main".

**Shaelinith**

Solar Shock wrote:
Thank you for the responses. I see what you mean about its output and comparable survivability. I still want to run one, I think i'll run it as a nightscythe

Spoiler:

(only reason I want to is my necrons are an ork-necron conversion army - so all robo-orks and my flyer is mounted side ways so it looks like a giant Bad Moonz symbol and it looks f**king bad-ass).

I think if I run it as a nightscythe il get the most fun from it. With 2x DDA starting on the board and hopefully minimal other drops, it will either; Get focussed hard, giving the DDA's a pass turn 1. Or it will get ignored and I can fly it around like a bad-ass moon Sh*tting out robo-orks The rest of my list is; wraiths, scarabs, deceiver and infantry. waiting on dex to flesh it out, but should be mobile and good for casual games.

Sadly, as much as i love those Nightscythe (and Monoliths), i think the Tomb World deployment is not a good mechanic. It keeps the worst of all the mechanics it tries to combine.
It's still not a transport, no you cannot move when you deploy AND when the Nightscythe/Monolith is popped you lose everything inside unless you use 1CP.
But it's worse if you try to put multiple unit in one Nightscythe/Monolith because you can only save one (maybe two if the Enhanced Beams can work with Emergency Beams, hope it's FAQ).

So you technically always have to commit on multiple Nightscythe/Monolith to be sure that they cannot be destroyed on the same turn before deploying the units 'inside'.

And for me the worst of the worst is that my opponent is a Dark Eldar player and "Agent of Vect" counter to Emergency Beams.

Given the price of 1 archon and 2x5 kabalites, you will also see it on all Eldar soup i think.

If you don't go close combat, i think Nephrek is the way to go it's much much better (less points, more reliable).

**Necron_Mason**

MarkM wrote:
Necron_Mason wrote:
DarknessEternal wrote:

These costs are not correct if you're giving them the same non-gun upgrades.

Edited. Thank you for pointing that out. Honestly have no idea how that happened lol. My point still stands, even more so now that it is 25% point discount for 50% power reduction.

I love 1-sided math hammer
What about the fact that for the same points I get several more wounds, making them more survivable? More likely to trigger RP. Or cover more ground. Or that a cheaper unit allows me to fit in an extra destroyer?
Math Hammer is a tool - it is not and never will be - the whole picture.

You do have a point, a point I usually point as well. Not sure what has me off my game today lol. The trade off in making them less damage oriented to buff them defensive wise, to ignore cover, or take an extra Destroyer and still have points for upgrades is very appealing. I guess it boils down to whether you want them to be more defensive or offensive oriented, or if you have enough points to splurge for both.

**Moosatronic Warrior**

Grimgold wrote:

I get that the new RP is fluffier (Necrons are supposed to be immortal, not invincible), and has been tuned to be more in line with faction defining abilities like disgustingly resilient, and ATSKNF, but occasionally I miss having an ability you could rely on. Instead 8th ed RP is controlled by our opponents, a resource mechanic they have to manage to not get snowballed. If they are correctly managing it, it has very little effect on the game, outside of the effort required to manage it. That makes building around RP rather pointless, if your opponent isn't managing it well, you'll snowball them without spending extra points. If they are managing it well then the resources invested in enhancing RP will never get used.

At best, we can hope to punish mistakes and unlucky turns, but even on that we got sandbagged. Enhanced reanimation protocols is supposed to be our go to punish and it's awful. 2 CP gets you an 8% chance per RP roll to get an extra model back if there is a cryptek nearby, 6% otherwise, that is one of the worst returns on CP for any stratagem. Either the unit is large enough to make use of it and the individual brought back is worth 12 points, or the unit is too small to use if reliably. At 1 cp it might occasionally be worth a gamble, at 2 CP it's trash. Let's say someone killed 5 of 6 destroyers, and you drop the 2 CP to get enhanced reanimation protocols but don't have a cryptek nearby, there is a 73% chance that those 2 CP do nothing at all. That isn't even a gamble, that's just throwing CP off of a cliff.

Crypteks and res orbs require setup, you have to be near the unit (very near the unit in the crypteks case) at the beginning of movement, so we have to be predictive and can't be reactive, which means we can't punish.

While I would agree that this is all basically true (especially enhanced RP being terrible), I don't think RP is something entirely in the hands of your opponent. Once you're on the table you should always be looking out for ways to take advantage of it.

A couple of examples form my last game:

-At deployment I only had a small piece of LOS blocking terrain but I managed to hide half of two 10 man Immortal units and half a destroyer unit behind it. The tau could damage all of these units but not finish any of them off. If RP didn't exist I would have hidden the most valuable unit (destroyers) and left the Immortals exposed.

-I put my Tesla TBs closer than necessary to a group of fire warriors and they got rapid fired to death. They had the mobility and range to avoid being rapid fired but I was careless. That would be a mistake with any unit but is even worse when it denies you RP.

RP also becomes more effective the less points your opponent has on the table. That means it's better in 1000pt games but also means that if you have a blob of 20 warriors in a 2000pt game you should try to avoid having them targeted in the early game. If on turn 3 both armies have less than 1000pts left those warriors become a much bigger threat.

TLDR: Getting RP is not something you should plan a list around but once you hit the table you should absolutely be looking for any opportunity to take advantage of it, either keep units alive or at least messing with the opponents target priority.

**skoffs**

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
if you have a blob of 20 warriors in a 2000pt game you should try to avoid having them targeted in the early game. If on turn 3 both armies have less than 1000pts left those warriors become a much bigger threat.

Welllll, if that's really the case, perhaps taking Nephrekh Warriors (kept off the table until later in the game then popped in via Translocation Crypt) would be worth considering.
I mean seriously,
Imagine your opponent is camping something on an objective on the other side of the table, thinking it's completely safe from falling into your hands. Then turn three, oops, looks like 20 ObSec Warriors just arrived to take it from him.
(this might actually make me rethink my position on Warriors).

**moonsmite**

skoffs wrote:
Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
if you have a blob of 20 warriors in a 2000pt game you should try to avoid having them targeted in the early game. If on turn 3 both armies have less than 1000pts left those warriors become a much bigger threat.

Welllll, if that's really the case, perhaps taking Nephrekh Warriors (kept off the table until later in the game then popped in via Translocation Crypt) would be worth considering.
I mean seriously,
Imagine your opponent is camping something on an objective on the other side of the table, thinking it's completely safe from falling into your hands. Then turn three, oops, looks like 20 ObSec Warriors just arrived to take it from him.
(this might actually make me rethink my position on Warriors).

This honestly sounds like a sound tactic. already love that dynasty for deep striking units and fast moving to objectives. going to have to give my warriors more thought.

**Azuza001**

ScarletRose wrote:
So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.

I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.

I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.

Wraiths are already really expensive, I plan on building mine bare with no upgrades.

As for lychguard, my question is do you plan on playing for fun, semi competitive, or competitive?

Lychguard are not that good, I mean they are good but their lack of speed makes them not that good, most things that they would want to be getting into it with can stay outside their range. I plan on making mine into custom deathmarks, just use the immortal bodies and the left over deathmarks heads and guns from the immortal spruce.

Point for point death marks get a bad rap but I think they are pretty good. They are flexible enough to be able to get you where you need fire Support and resistant enough to take some wounds. A squad of 5 in deep strike waiting for your opponent to drop stuff in can be very effective since deathmarks can teleport in when another enemy model deepstrikes and then you get free shots at it. I have ruined my opponents plans often with this, be it putting them in between what they were deep striking in to charge giving me a mobile buffer zone, or dropping in and getting lucky on my wound rolls killing half an enemy squad thanks to 6's (which cause mortal wounds).

**Moosatronic Warrior**

Keeping Warriors in reserve is one option that could work.

I also think that keeping 5-10 squad members out of LOS in your DZ while the rest of the unit conga lines out for board control is an option. They can then take the odd shot, grab nearby objectives, or tempt the opponent to waste shots on them while they wait for battlefield conditions to get less deadly.

**MarkM**

Azuza001 wrote:

Point for point death marks get a bad rap but I think they are pretty good. They are flexible enough to be able to get you where you need fire Support and resistant enough to take some wounds. A squad of 5 in deep strike waiting for your opponent to drop stuff in can be very effective since deathmarks can teleport in when another enemy model deepstrikes and then you get free shots at it. I have ruined my opponents plans often with this, be it putting them in between what they were deep striking in to charge giving me a mobile buffer zone, or dropping in and getting lucky on my wound rolls killing half an enemy squad thanks to 6's (which cause mortal wounds).

How do you manage the bit in bold?
They DS 9"+a hairs width from the unit that they want to charge. You counter DS. Where? How can you block their charge?

**Lord of Nonsensical Crap**

So, thoughts on this list?

Spoiler:

My main concern is the lack of anti-tank. I'm hoping that I have at least addressed the Necrons' mobility issues with this list, though.

**Azuza001**

It depends on deployment of course, but if you have scarab swarms as you blocker you can leave 2" in between them which is enough room to place your deathmarks in. So it goes something like this.

D S D S D S D D

Or you can do this
. . S S S
D D D D D

And put them behind the buffer unit to make a second buffer zone.

Also sometimes people want to try a multi charge against 2 squads, one is 9.1" away and the other is 10 or 11.

My point is its doable, I may not have explained it well in my post but it's an option.

**skoffs**

When I use Deathmarks counter deep strike ability it's usually to blunt an alpha. At that point you really need to maximize your shots, so Mephrit for the AP-1.
Also helpful is to put a Lord near whatever you think the juiciest target will be. That way when your DMs show up they'll be able to benefit from that ever important reroll 1s to-wound.
(I guess you might even be able to set up a trap, purposely leaving an area open near something valuable in the hopes that your opponent will fall for it and drop his guys there. But as thematic for Deathmarks doing something like that might be, I have a feeling most players won't be dumb enough to fall for something like that).

**Archebius**

ScarletRose wrote:
So any chance I could get some advice on assembling Forgebane? Last I played was 3rd ed so these newfangled plastic Necrons are giving me too many options.

I managed to get a second Necron half so I can make 10 man units of Immortals and Lychguard.

I was thinking gauss immortals, warscythe lychguard and particle casters on the wraiths. That way I can use them for a variety of dynasties.

Other people have run the math on tesla vs. gauss for the Immortals - largely, I think it comes down to what Dynasty you want to run, as well as what you expect to come up against. Tesla weapons are great fun against hordes, but the extra AP on the gauss has come in handy for me against Space Marines.

Warscythe Lychguard are, as pointed out by someone else above, not considered very competitive. Against the newbie group that I play with, they're a ton of fun as a defensive unit and dish out plenty of wounds. I want to try a list with more Lychguard and a Nightscythe/Veil of Darkness/Deceiver list, which would get blown off the table against a competitive army - but could be a ton of fun in friendlies. If you're not building for tournaments and your friends are willing to humor you with Blitz-style games, I would say Warscythe Lychguard won't disappoint.

For Wraiths, the gun barrel actually fits tightly enough in the holder that I didn't need to choose which one to glue in - I can swap it out if I choose to.

**EnTyme**

A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.

**AnFair**

EnTyme wrote:
A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.

Is there any info about release date of Killteam update?

**skoffs**

EnTyme wrote:
A note on Warscythe Lychguard: They were pretty solid in Killteam-style small skirmish games in 7th edition, and with Killteam getting an update soon, you may want to build them for that if your group plays.

If you're still required to field units in their entirety instead of just being able to stick individual guys on the table I highly doubt you'll be seeing many Lychguard in Killteam lists.

**Rocmistro**

So that I don't need to read all 56 pages, does anyone go into greater detail at any point about the "grades" each unit type gets, and why?

**Slayer-Fan123**

I really do think that Lychguard might be able to do work in a Kutlakh focused list.

**Tiberius501**

Hey guys, just a quick question about whether a unit is good or not, (I ask this a lot, I'm a terrible player), are Triarch stalkers any good, and if so, what loadout is the best?

**Nagerash**

They aren't as good as they were in 7th, because of the Dynasty codes don't affect it + you can pick Nihilakh for almost the same buff armywide.

They do still have a place in some lists though. If you're not Nihilakh and still want your infantry/Darks to reroll 1's to hit, then it could prove very usefull. I don't think there is a wrong way to build him. It all depends on what you want him to do. If you wan't anti-tank to help out a DDark then go for the longer range TGC, if you want Anti-tank to help out an infantry force moving up the field, you could go for the Heat ray, which has a very good charge defence with his 2D6 heavy flamer hits.

If you already have enough Anti-tank and want to mainly assist your infantry at range, go for the shredder.

**Kuguar6**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey guys, just a quick question about whether a unit is good or not, (I ask this a lot, I'm a terrible player), are Triarch stalkers any good, and if so, what loadout is the best?

Best with HGC for DDA support because long range and similar weapon profile, but i prefers second DDA instead.