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2018/04/06 20:57:55
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
torblind wrote: I've been shielding myself from anything Necron Codex rumour related for a month+ now, which meant I got to do this with an unsullied mind:
... when I finally got the book. It was an awesome read from a naiv index point of view!
Having now read through these 59 forum pages, I'm back on track again.
One question - what do you feel fluff wise, with friendly games against.. friends, is it common courtesy to stick to one Dynasty for the entire army you're fielding? That was the reaction I got from my AM and Nids friends (which seem to do this).
That is our groups opinion as well. I currently have never mixed tyranid fleets, IG companies or Forgeworld trait and no one in my group has done it with their armies yet either.
2018/04/06 20:58:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Yeah i play nids and fluff wise I normally keep one detachment. For tourneys though their is a definite benefit of split Hive Fleets/Detachments to min max unit strengths when paired with certain rules.
I for see a lot of mephrit with shooty part and Nephrakh (or however you spell it) for the fast/assualty parts of the army.
10000+
10000+
8500+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
Depends. Overlords are known for 'hiring' Crypteks to aid the survival of their troops. If you want to play fluffy, you can have one detachment lead by an Overlord and one by a Cryptek.
2018/04/06 21:41:45
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Don't give into the hype, DLords are not the same as Imperium characters. 4 Warscythe attacks with Novokh rerolls felt good, until the Custodes Bike Captain charged in with 2+/3++/7W 5A hitting on 2+ rerolls and rerolling wounds. And also has a bucket of dice in shooting. It's just... not close. The game favors numbers over quality, and Imperium Characters just have both. DLords are not quite there.
IIRC the Shield Captain on bike rerolls hits, his lance rerolls wounds only on the charge and the lance doesn't shoot - but good luck surviving that charge. If he's the warlord he can get the 5+ FNP. He's one of the best value melee units IMO but he's also 30+ points more expensive than a DLord.
I think we can get pretty close, Novokh D-Lord, warlord trait eternal madness, phylactery, warscythe upgraded into the blood scythe, so we get a 4 attacks plus a d3 hitting at s7, -4 ap and 2 damage per, rerolling hits and wounds whenever he charges, heroically intervenes or is charged. 6 wounds at T6, 3+/4++, and recovers a D3 wounds per turn. I'd say a properly kitted D-lord is in the same ballpark as a storm eagle cap,and if he is not quite the equal, he is about 15% cheaper. You can trade out the blood scythe for the nano scarb casket, for a little less offense but making him quite a bit more durable.
*edit* Almost forgot entropic strike, which lets us get a hit through his invul every fight phase.
Voidreaper are better than blood scythe. For all kind of targets. There is no reason to take blood scythe as a first artifact.
2018/04/06 22:36:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Voidreaper are better than blood scythe. For all kind of targets. There is no reason to take blood scythe as a first artifact.
Generally that's true, the wound on 2+ is great, as is the extra damage. However void reaper only wounds on 2+ against non-vehicles, and I want this guy dunking dreadnoughts, tanks and bigger units. So to make up for the lack of wounds on 2+ you take eternal madness as a warlord trait, which gives you a reroll wounds when charging. You'll be wounding most things on threes so here is how the math works out:
Void reaper
.89 * .97 * 3 * 4 = 10.4 wounds
blood scythe
.89 * .89 * 2 * 6 = 9.5 wounds
So it's only a wound behind, but here is where the blood scythe comes ahead, lots of things have 2 wounds or 1 wound, but only a fraction of models have three wounds or more, and about half of those are vehicles. So when you are fighting things with less than 3 wounds a lot of void reapers power is wasted in overkill. Having more attacks but a lower damage per hit works to the advantage of the blood scythe because it works better as a weed wacker, and almost as good (or better if it's a vehicle) against things with lots of wounds. Hope I'm explaining that ok,
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/04/07 00:04:29
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Guys, one thing to keep in mind against rules lawyers: As per the book you can make any Dynasty have any dynastic code as per the rulebook, but dynasties different from the ones listed on the book do not automatically get the benefit of using the dynastic stratagems listed on page 110.
As by the book a Mynarch dynasty may, for instance, take Novokh's AWAKENED BY MURDER dynastic code, but would not get access to BLOOD RITES, a Novokh Stratagem.
Of course you can claim "counts-as" rules, just something to keep in mind when dealing with "those players".
Is it safe to assume that Nephreak PB Tomb Blades might actually be a "cheap" enough unit to move up the board to claim objectives? Sure your hitting on 4s because of advancing but the PB suffers the least for advancing and is the cheapest gun.
You could easily make an Nephreak Outrider containing everything you would want.
Someone at GW told me for flyers there's a rule somewhere that says you always measure from the hull, by then I argued the monoliths own special rule which says you measure from the hull... so does that mean for the doomsday ark you have to measure from it's tiny base? And what about big vehicles without a base such as landraiders.
Sorry for the questions I'm not especially experience in 8th edition
Vehicles without bases (e.g. Land Raiders) have distance measured from their hull. If you have a rule such as "Hover Tank", you also measure from the hull.
I don't understand the grading, how are any of the powers worse for a vault to use. It has a bigger model size and gets a bonus to every power so surely they are all better on the vault
The idea behind the grading was that certain powers are kind of 'wasted' on the Vault, since they practically serve the same purpose on a regula C'tan. But, if a power is ranked high on a regular, you can assume it will perform just as well on a Vault
And as for measuring from the Vault's base....if you folks really do it that way, sooooo many enemy units cannot get into melee with the Vault, since they can't get within 1" with the base.
It's not how "we folks" really do it, it's just, like, the rules man.
You do know that the vault is a pretty tall model with a lot of space under it right? Have you ever had problems fitting models around a flyer? No? Then you shouldn't have problems with the Vault.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Odrankt wrote: Is it safe to assume that Nephreak PB Tomb Blades might actually be a "cheap" enough unit to move up the board to claim objectives? Sure your hitting on 4s because of advancing but the PB suffers the least for advancing and is the cheapest gun.
You could easily make an Nephreak Outrider containing everything you would want.
Fast
- 6 Destroyers as above
- 8 Tomb PB as above
- 8 Tomb PB as above
Funnily enough, if i was running a Nephrekh Outrider detachment, I'd go for destroyers and wraiths, wouldn't even bother with Tomb Blades.
The wraiths can benefit from the guaranteed advance and charge, while the destroyers can deep strike. Paying the 40-ish points for a Nephrekh tomb blade just for it to move 20" and grab an objective doesn't sound that efficient.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2018/04/07 03:59:40
2018/04/07 05:25:13
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - 3/27 first draft of unit grading in OP
willow wrote: if i was running a Nephrekh Outrider detachment, I'd go for destroyers and wraiths, wouldn't even bother with Tomb Blades.
The wraiths can benefit from the guaranteed advance and charge, while the destroyers can deep strike. Paying the 40-ish points for a Nephrekh tomb blade just for it to move 20" and grab an objective doesn't sound that efficient.
You're completely right.
Add Scarabs to that list, because they'd love a free 6" advance every turn to zoom around.
Also, Warriors on the deep strike line up (as discussed a couple pages back, a decent sized blob held back until turn three or later, so most of the things that can threaten them are taken care of, then dropping on to a contested objective to hopefully steal it with their superior numbers and ObSec, is a tactic worth considering).
2018/04/07 05:26:21
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Had a game against my friends bids the other night, lists as follows:
Spoiler:
Necrons: Sautekh Dynasty
Battalion
HQ Overlord, Warscythe
Lord, Warscythe
Troops
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, tesla
Elite
Deceiver
Heavy support
DDA
Flyer
Doom scythe
Doom scythe
Tyranids
Behemoth Hive fleet
Battalion
HQ Hive Tyrant
Brood lord
Troops
3 x 12 Genestealers
Elites
3 Venomthropes
3 Tyrant Guard
Heavy
Tyrannofex
Trygon
Mawloc
The game was very one sided, rolled the kill points mission and hammer and anvil deployment. Used the immortals and characters to buffer out my corner of the deployment zone, using the deceiver as a bluff to reposition my DDA from an initially conservative deployment into a much more aggressive one. The DDA was beastly, dealt 10 wounds T1 to the tyrannofex and T2 one shotted the Trygon, which had to come up outside my 'castle' due to deceiver deployment shenanigans. Although this may not be typical it's indicative of the firepower that it can put out. Impressions were very positive.
Less impressive were the doom scythes. Both killed a few Genestealers and Venomthropes with tesla, although the Venomthropes basically neutered their effectiveness. They were very fragile to boot, the tyrant guard one shotted them without much issue. Even with Sautekh dynasty my initial impression is to drop these in favour of another DDA and maybe a spider in order to take a spearhead detachment.
Single most valuable unit was the deceiver. Deployment shenanigans, c'tan powers and being pretty mean in combat makes this a monster. I'm toying with swapping this for a transcendent c'tan but it's far from certain. C'tan look to be a must take.
2018/04/07 09:34:53
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Just had 2 500pt games. I was against Space Woflfs and Custodes. Best Space wolves 4-1vp and drew against Custodes 1-1vp. Could of beaten them though if I had put my CCB in his deployment zone but I forgot that was a scoring objective for those games
My list
Spoiler:
Patrol - Mephrit
CCB, Warscythe, Gauss Cannon, Lighting Field, Immortal Pride
16 warriors
8 Tesla Immortals
497/500pts
My 1st time against Custodes and them having 2+ save with 3/4++ invul is really annoying. I was able to kill the Hawk though with my Immortals and CCB shooting and charging it (he got 1st turn and tried to charge my CCB and failed so out him in a bad position).
Funnily enough, if i was running a Nephrekh Outrider detachment, I'd go for destroyers and wraiths, wouldn't even bother with Tomb Blades.
The wraiths can benefit from the guaranteed advance and charge, while the destroyers can deep strike. Paying the 40-ish points for a Nephrekh tomb blade just for it to move 20" and grab an objective doesn't sound that efficient.
Right now what looks to be my go to Outrider is Nephrek, Scarabs, DLord w/ws and Casket, Deceiver, 6 Wraiths and 6 deepstriking Destroyers coming in next to the Deceiver-repositioned, Wraith screened DLord. Depending on points I'm wondering if a CCB w/Lightning Field might be better.
2018/04/07 13:25:12
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Stickeh wrote: Had a game against my friends bids the other night, lists as follows:
Spoiler:
Necrons: Sautekh Dynasty
Battalion
HQ Overlord, Warscythe
Lord, Warscythe
Troops
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, gauss
10 Immortals, tesla
Elite
Deceiver
Heavy support
DDA
Flyer
Doom scythe
Doom scythe
Tyranids
Behemoth Hive fleet
Battalion
HQ Hive Tyrant
Brood lord
Troops
3 x 12 Genestealers
Elites
3 Venomthropes
3 Tyrant Guard
Heavy
Tyrannofex
Trygon
Mawloc
The game was very one sided, rolled the kill points mission and hammer and anvil deployment. Used the immortals and characters to buffer out my corner of the deployment zone, using the deceiver as a bluff to reposition my DDA from an initially conservative deployment into a much more aggressive one. The DDA was beastly, dealt 10 wounds T1 to the tyrannofex and T2 one shotted the Trygon, which had to come up outside my 'castle' due to deceiver deployment shenanigans. Although this may not be typical it's indicative of the firepower that it can put out. Impressions were very positive.
Less impressive were the doom scythes. Both killed a few Genestealers and Venomthropes with tesla, although the Venomthropes basically neutered their effectiveness. They were very fragile to boot, the tyrant guard one shotted them without much issue. Even with Sautekh dynasty my initial impression is to drop these in favour of another DDA and maybe a spider in order to take a spearhead detachment.
Single most valuable unit was the deceiver. Deployment shenanigans, c'tan powers and being pretty mean in combat makes this a monster. I'm toying with swapping this for a transcendent c'tan but it's far from certain. C'tan look to be a must take.
Thanks for posting. Batreps always provide the best insight in my opinion. How did you deal with his hive tyrant?
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
2018/04/07 14:45:27
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
I've read this entire thread, so I'm sorry for asking about Lychguard again. But I just don't know what to build given what else I own?
Thanks for reading!
Start collecting sets arent very good. Old one have nerfed stalker and new one have bad ani barage or two overlord.
Better start from ark, warriors and/or favorite hq.
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
Use some math. Tessla on 4+ give you 2 more hit for 6 atack. 11 hit instead 9. -1 AP on armour 2+ give you 2x more uswound. 1/3 wound instead 1/6.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/07 14:55:20
2018/04/07 15:02:35
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
I agree. I'm not sure Sautekh is the end all be all, but getting in 12" of enemies in the current is just asking to get messed up, which makes Mephrit really risky if you want to actually use their abilities. Sautekh has a really good Strat and the Run + Shoot is going to occasionally be a real lifesaver.
Kuguar6 wrote:
Use some math. Tessla on 4+ give you 2 more hit for 6 atack. 11 hit instead 9. -1 AP on armour 2+ give you 2x more uswound. 1/3 wound instead 1/6.
2+ isn't the only type of armor in the game. And even if you are Mephrit, shooting at something with 2+ is pretty wasted, since a lot of the Characters will have 3++ anyway, and if you're in half range to take advantage of the AP, you're about to be charged by something with 2+ and probably lose that unit. Most enemies won't just stand there and do nothing in response.
2018/04/07 15:08:25
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Seems like everybody is going meprhit mephrit mephrit these days. Sure -1Ap feels good. I'll argue you can make better Sautekh combos.
1) Better AP won't help vs invu saves and feel no pains. There are a load of these in the meta.
2) You need to be in close range. While i can see the usefulness for Warriors, DDA or Monoliths, realise that in this meta, you will be charged the very next turn on which you shot. For anything else than DDA and monoliths, you won't be able to shoot again.
3) +1 to hit, with our whole army that hits on 3+, in mathematicly equivalent to -1AP in most case, but better against invu saves.
4) Nobody seems to like the Sautekh stratagem Methological destruction, it can potentially give +1 to hit to many units shooting the same target. Yes even vehicules. Plus, you can stay at long range. Anybody love 72'' DDA shot that hit on 2+?
5) Max out the Tesla: MWBD on a unit, then the Sautekh stratagem, then a stalker targets to reroll 1s for good measures. Methematicly that's the best Tesla you can dream of, hit on 2+, 3 hits on 4+, reroll 1s. Even against armor 2+ you will land a couple of wounds.
Yes i get it its a 2CP stratagem versus a passive trait. Even then, build your army around this strategy, i think its better.
I agree. I'm not sure Sautekh is the end all be all, but getting in 12" of enemies in the current is just asking to get messed up, which makes Mephrit really risky if you want to actually use their abilities. Sautekh has a really good Strat and the Run + Shoot is going to occasionally be a real lifesaver.
Kuguar6 wrote:
Use some math. Tessla on 4+ give you 2 more hit for 6 atack. 11 hit instead 9. -1 AP on armour 2+ give you 2x more uswound. 1/3 wound instead 1/6.
2+ isn't the only type of armor in the game. And even if you are Mephrit, shooting at something with 2+ is pretty wasted, since a lot of the Characters will have 3++ anyway, and if you're in half range to take advantage of the AP, you're about to be charged by something with 2+ and probably lose that unit. Most enemies won't just stand there and do nothing in response.
Aye, pretty standard to compare the -1 AP on 3+ instead of 2+.
Further, the benefit of Sautekh isn't necessarily locked into access to that CP. Frankly, having played quite a few games with the Codex now (about 3x 2k games versus Eldar, IG, and about 4x games against TS) I would argue vociferously in favor of Sautekh's ability to let your DDAs run-n-gun.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Moreover, Sautekh gives you access to Imotekh who's amazingly solid as a named HQ for Necrons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/07 15:09:03
2018/04/07 15:12:55
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Thanks for posting. Batreps always provide the best insight in my opinion. How did you deal with his hive tyrant?
Due to points constraints he took a foot tyrant instead of winged. By the time he got into combat with it by T3 all he could fight were two squads of immortals and a Lord. The c’tan was unfortunate to not kill him but he rolled well on his 4+ invun and was low on wounds from combat with the broodlord and genestealers. The third squad of immortals veiled up with my OL and got a successful charge off against the hive guard, and the DDA positioned itself to be able to glow away the tyant should be leave combat. We called the game T4 with the tyrant still alive, but hopelessly outgunned and surrounded.
Had the tyrant been equipped with wings it would have been harder to contain him, but baiting him with my juicy warlord and tesla immortals then whittling down the gene stealers gave me a huge positional advantage. The veil of darkness jumped out at me when I first read the book and I can’t think of May games where I wouldn’t take it. Being able to redeploy the OL plus a unit of MWBD immortals anywhere mid game is incredible value, be it for kill points or objectives.
2018/04/07 16:01:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Man, I can't find a T.Vault anywhere on the Eastern seaboard for sale. I knew I should have bought the one I saw a few months ago... such a good model.
2018/04/07 16:24:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
You can use the CTan thunderbolt power to get to characters right? Just pick a unit that is being buffed by a troublesome character within 3" and you will always get 4+ on him too
2018/04/07 17:23:56
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
torblind wrote: You can use the CTan thunderbolt power to get to characters right? Just pick a unit that is being buffed by a troublesome character within 3" and you will always get 4+ on him too
Nope, the power specifically states you cannot target characters who have <10 maximum wounds.
10000+
3000+
8000+
