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2018/04/11 10:47:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
So, I played a small points game against my Khorne Chaos buddy who only has like, 900 points. But, I wanted to put my crons on the table and see how they did. Obviously this doesn't speak about min/maxing and tournament level play, but I would like to share my experience.
My list was simple:
Novokh Dynasty
Overlord: Warscythe, Res Orb (Voidreaper)
Lord: Warscythe (Bloodscythe, 1 CP)
10x Warriors
10x Warriors
9x Tesla Immortals
Transcendant C'Tan
My buddy brought Kharne, a Terminator Lord, Khorne Berserkers, Chaos Marines, a Rhino, and a Helbrute, all World Eaters.
He let me have first turn and so I moved the T-C'tan up and rolled a 6 for Antimatter Meteor, wiping out 5 of his Marines alone. Then, using MWBD on the Tesla Immortals I wiped the rest of the squad. Then he ran everything else up, shooting and charging the C'tan by his second turn. It blew up and wiped two Berserkers. He almost wiped my immortals, but one survived and I got 5 back. Then, since he retreated his Rhino, I shot at Kharne and killed him over two turns with Gauss flayers. Then his terminator lord fell before he could strike in CC to my Overlord and Lord, also because I used Entropic Strike.
Again, none of this is really relevant to most of you, I just though I'd share my first experience.
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty
2018/04/11 10:56:01
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
I've just bought a monolith and a T.vault. now in terms on LoS, do they both count as blocking LoS to unit behind? Could the enemy shoot under them if they can see my warriors feet? Do they block movement? I assume the mono does, but the vault appears to be quite floaty and I'm not sure whether someone can aruge they can pass under it/semi through it? For combat do they need to get into base contact? Or hull contact?
Basically I have a list that is;
T.vault
Mono
Deciever
I illusion up the table and basically deny space, movement and shooting priority, with the deciever sandwiched between the two to prevent closest shooting. On my turn unloading crapton of mortal wounds per turn and start spewing out Tesla immortals. More of a fun list, but I feel it has a few ways to play. I mostly play maelstrom, so focus on placing objectives tightly together, then if the enemy picks that side I illusion up the board and deny access with my big squares, unload out the back and take good positioning. If he picks the side with little objectives, I can refuse flank, there's lots I feel I can do to mess with the opponents plans. But basically it all rides on how my big squares interact with LoS and movement.
Vault measures to base. Monolith has a rule which states measure to hull.
The monolith will block LOS, but as you've noticed, the Vault wouldn't. Models can pass underneath a Vault in the same way they would pass under a Flyer, with the standard restriction of staying more than 1" away unless they're charging in.
2018/04/11 11:14:15
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
krodarklorr wrote: So, I played a small points game against my Khorne Chaos buddy who only has like, 900 points. But, I wanted to put my crons on the table and see how they did. Obviously this doesn't speak about min/maxing and tournament level play, but I would like to share my experience.
My list was simple:
Novokh Dynasty
Overlord: Warscythe, Res Orb (Voidreaper)
Lord: Warscythe (Bloodscythe, 1 CP)
10x Warriors
10x Warriors
9x Tesla Immortals
Transcendant C'Tan
My buddy brought Kharne, a Terminator Lord, Khorne Berserkers, Chaos Marines, a Rhino, and a Helbrute, all World Eaters.
He let me have first turn and so I moved the T-C'tan up and rolled a 6 for Antimatter Meteor, wiping out 5 of his Marines alone. Then, using MWBD on the Tesla Immortals I wiped the rest of the squad. Then he ran everything else up, shooting and charging the C'tan by his second turn. It blew up and wiped two Berserkers. He almost wiped my immortals, but one survived and I got 5 back. Then, since he retreated his Rhino, I shot at Kharne and killed him over two turns with Gauss flayers. Then his terminator lord fell before he could strike in CC to my Overlord and Lord, also because I used Entropic Strike.
Again, none of this is really relevant to most of you, I just though I'd share my first experience.
Thanks for the share.
Could you have played the C'Tan differently, or did letting him take the heat allow your other units to shoot him up afterwards? So that it was a meaningful sacrifice?
I've just bought a monolith and a T.vault. now in terms on LoS, do they both count as blocking LoS to unit behind? Could the enemy shoot under them if they can see my warriors feet? Do they block movement? I assume the mono does, but the vault appears to be quite floaty and I'm not sure whether someone can aruge they can pass under it/semi through it? For combat do they need to get into base contact? Or hull contact?
Basically I have a list that is;
T.vault
Mono
Deciever
I illusion up the table and basically deny space, movement and shooting priority, with the deciever sandwiched between the two to prevent closest shooting. On my turn unloading crapton of mortal wounds per turn and start spewing out Tesla immortals. More of a fun list, but I feel it has a few ways to play. I mostly play maelstrom, so focus on placing objectives tightly together, then if the enemy picks that side I illusion up the board and deny access with my big squares, unload out the back and take good positioning. If he picks the side with little objectives, I can refuse flank, there's lots I feel I can do to mess with the opponents plans. But basically it all rides on how my big squares interact with LoS and movement.
Vault measures to base. Monolith has a rule which states measure to hull.
The monolith will block LOS, but as you've noticed, the Vault wouldn't. Models can pass underneath a Vault in the same way they would pass under a Flyer, with the standard restriction of staying more than 1" away unless they're charging in.
So would something speedy thath doesn't have Fly, a bike perhaps, be allowed to move underneath it? Doesn't rules say ayou have to stay 1" away from any enemy during your entire move? Is there an exception to this for enemy units with Fly?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/11 11:16:07
2018/04/11 11:21:50
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Could you have played the C'Tan differently, or did letting him take the heat allow your other units to shoot him up afterwards? So that it was a meaningful sacrifice?
I definitely could have played it different. Turn two, since he charged his Helbrute forward, I ran up and charged it with the C'Tan, and since it's AP-4 and D6 damage, quickly erased the Helbrute from existence. Then he shot and charged the C'Tan, but it blew up as I hoped, and left his units closer to my rapid-firing Gauss. So even if it hadn't of exploded, I think it ended up as a decent sacrifice. The only time I've ever actually wanted the C'Tan to die as it did.
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty
2018/04/11 11:24:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
I've just bought a monolith and a T.vault. now in terms on LoS, do they both count as blocking LoS to unit behind? Could the enemy shoot under them if they can see my warriors feet? Do they block movement? I assume the mono does, but the vault appears to be quite floaty and I'm not sure whether someone can aruge they can pass under it/semi through it? For combat do they need to get into base contact? Or hull contact?
Basically I have a list that is;
T.vault
Mono
Deciever
I illusion up the table and basically deny space, movement and shooting priority, with the deciever sandwiched between the two to prevent closest shooting. On my turn unloading crapton of mortal wounds per turn and start spewing out Tesla immortals. More of a fun list, but I feel it has a few ways to play. I mostly play maelstrom, so focus on placing objectives tightly together, then if the enemy picks that side I illusion up the board and deny access with my big squares, unload out the back and take good positioning. If he picks the side with little objectives, I can refuse flank, there's lots I feel I can do to mess with the opponents plans. But basically it all rides on how my big squares interact with LoS and movement.
Vault measures to base. Monolith has a rule which states measure to hull.
The monolith will block LOS, but as you've noticed, the Vault wouldn't. Models can pass underneath a Vault in the same way they would pass under a Flyer, with the standard restriction of staying more than 1" away unless they're charging in.
Thanks Willow,
So a follow on question about the T.vault. The overall size of the vault appears to be much larger than the flyer base, lets say that the vault is in a straight line with the enemy unit and a Warrior unit behind it; so the vault is in the middle.
If the warriors unit is inline with the edge of the vaults model (not base) and say the enemy tries to charge the warriors with a C.Fex, what does he do? as there may be room to fit his base in contact with the warriors, but he cant actually fit the Fex there as the model wont fit under the vault?
Same as above but with say genestealers - in which I assume because he can fit them under the vault they have no restrictions
Basically, does the vault restrict movement of the enemy in any way other than the same way a standard flyer would? From what you are saying it seems to me like it might restrict the movment of large units if they want to finish their move within the overall footprint of the vault?
Favourite Game: When your Warboss on bike wrecks 3 vehicles simply by HoW - especially when his bike is a custom monowheel.
So would something speedy that doesn't have Fly, a bike perhaps, be allowed to move underneath it? Doesn't rules say ayou have to stay 1" away from any enemy during your entire move? Is there an exception to this for enemy units with Fly?
Yeah something would be able to move underneath it. You've got to stay 1" away from the base, unless the unit has a rule which says "measure distances from the hull" or something similar. So in theory, if a short-ish model can fit, the model can definitely move under the Vault, as long as it stays 1" away from the base.
I've just bought a monolith and a T.vault. now in terms on LoS, do they both count as blocking LoS to unit behind? Could the enemy shoot under them if they can see my warriors feet? Do they block movement? I assume the mono does, but the vault appears to be quite floaty and I'm not sure whether someone can aruge they can pass under it/semi through it? For combat do they need to get into base contact? Or hull contact?
Basically I have a list that is;
T.vault
Mono
Deciever
I illusion up the table and basically deny space, movement and shooting priority, with the deciever sandwiched between the two to prevent closest shooting. On my turn unloading crapton of mortal wounds per turn and start spewing out Tesla immortals. More of a fun list, but I feel it has a few ways to play. I mostly play maelstrom, so focus on placing objectives tightly together, then if the enemy picks that side I illusion up the board and deny access with my big squares, unload out the back and take good positioning. If he picks the side with little objectives, I can refuse flank, there's lots I feel I can do to mess with the opponents plans. But basically it all rides on how my big squares interact with LoS and movement.
Vault measures to base. Monolith has a rule which states measure to hull.
The monolith will block LOS, but as you've noticed, the Vault wouldn't. Models can pass underneath a Vault in the same way they would pass under a Flyer, with the standard restriction of staying more than 1" away unless they're charging in.
Thanks Willow,
So a follow on question about the T.vault. The overall size of the vault appears to be much larger than the flyer base, lets say that the vault is in a straight line with the enemy unit and a Warrior unit behind it; so the vault is in the middle.
If the warriors unit is inline with the edge of the vaults model (not base) and say the enemy tries to charge the warriors with a C.Fex, what does he do? as there may be room to fit his base in contact with the warriors, but he cant actually fit the Fex there as the model wont fit under the vault?
Same as above but with say genestealers - in which I assume because he can fit them under the vault they have no restrictions
Basically, does the vault restrict movement of the enemy in any way other than the same way a standard flyer would? From what you are saying it seems to me like it might restrict the movment of large units if they want to finish their move within the overall footprint of the vault?
In the case of the Genies, yes your opponent would be able to charge the warriors.
I honestly don't know about how I'd negotiate the Fex (or large model) situation. It's not come up a lot tbh. Vaults weren't very popular until very recently
I'd just give my opponent the benefit of doubt and say he can charge. Even at a tournament, this helps to create an environment that people enjoy playing in. But that's a personal thing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/11 11:45:58
2018/04/11 14:24:42
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Quick side note- Has anyone else experienced that the Leadbelcher spray paint is brighter than the regular base paint?
I just sprayed a bunch of Warriors and was surprised how shiny/bright they all came out. Makes me feel like I shouldn't layer in Iron Breaker...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/11 14:25:16
Why Necrons? Well, we're just trying to sleep, and the galaxy is being too loud. So we're gonna go annihilate them real quick. I can self-identify with that.
2018/04/11 14:33:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote: Quick side note- Has anyone else experienced that the Leadbelcher spray paint is brighter than the regular base paint?
I just sprayed a bunch of Warriors and was surprised how shiny/bright they all came out. Makes me feel like I shouldn't layer in Iron Breaker...
That is usually the nature of aerosolized paint vs hand-brushed. Pigment concentrations and whatnot. Base color may be a factor, as well as how many layers of the spray you put down.
Regarding our own FaQ this weekend and the "big" FaQ within the foreseeable future. What changes do we want to see for our army and for 8th edition as a whole?
For our FaQ I would like to know if the Nanoscarabs Relic and/or Resurrection Protocol Stratgem can stop the conditions for "slay the Warlord" e.g. if dead opponent gets 1vp but if it comes back to life is the 1vp negated until it is killed "permanently".
And for the "big" FaQ I wonder will they try and change the way lists are made and games are played to make the tournament and general game scene more "fair" for everyone e.g. Horde armies aren't everywhere. People actually taking and getting success from elite armies and hampering how "soup" lists will work.
Odrankt wrote: What changes do we want to see for our army and for 8th edition as a whole?
Let's be careful about wishlisting, there. (This tactics thread is already long enough as it is without adding more non tactics discussion.)
Unless it's founded on reliable leaked info or something speculation like that might be best done in the general discussion forum rather than the tactics forum.
Things in the codex that are unclear and are hoping will be addressed, however, would totally be relevant. (eg. the part in the points costs at the back that lists things in the troop section which have no business being in the troops section... that one's a given).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/11 15:17:33
2018/04/11 15:20:10
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
moonsmite wrote:You seen destroyers? Even though i love them now, they are over powered and spammy.
When the winner of the last tournament i went to used 17.
i used 12 and came joint 5th.
Wouldnt blame them getting nerfed to previous points with the new gun.
Heartily disagree. They're much better, but they're still quite expensive and low model count for scoring. S6 is better than S5... except it still only wounds most Vehicles and big beasties (usually T7) on 5+ and low shot count per point still struggles against things with good invulns. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm not seeing this be the next metabreaker.
SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote: Quick side note- Has anyone else experienced that the Leadbelcher spray paint is brighter than the regular base paint?
I just sprayed a bunch of Warriors and was surprised how shiny/bright they all came out. Makes me feel like I shouldn't layer in Iron Breaker...
That is usually the nature of aerosolized paint vs hand-brushed. Pigment concentrations and whatnot. Base color may be a factor, as well as how many layers of the spray you put down.
Ah bummer. Was hoping the spray would cut down on my painting time... but I'm not a fan of this super bright silver...
Why Necrons? Well, we're just trying to sleep, and the galaxy is being too loud. So we're gonna go annihilate them real quick. I can self-identify with that.
2018/04/11 16:20:19
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Yeah, they use Bravery equal the amount of Orks in their unit or a nearby unit. A unit of 20+ Boyz or near a unit of 20+ Boyz is essentially fearless.
Neat.
Well, 17 Destroyers puts out 51 shots a turn, Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, ignoring their armor. If played right, the Doomsday Arks could move and shoot (because low-power would be fine against Boyz), and have at minimum 10 Gauss shots apiece. Then Wraiths could clean up a unit. It's possible, yeah.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/11 16:21:24
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty
2018/04/11 16:23:02
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
On wraiths no whips. They are not worth the 9 points. As for destroyers. The single unit a turn that gets tge strategem is ridiculous the rest are just decent. Great unit but very easy to kill off.
I doubt we will see any nerfs after such a short time. Some of our current wins will be atleast partially due to people not really knowing our threat priority yet and some just never playing against crons in 8th so far as we were pretty terrible until recently.
2018/04/11 16:38:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Yeah, they use Bravery equal the amount of Orks in their unit or a nearby unit. A unit of 20+ Boyz or near a unit of 20+ Boyz is essentially fearless.
Neat.
Well, 17 Destroyers puts out 51 shots a turn, Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, ignoring their armor. If played right, the Doomsday Arks could move and shoot (because low-power would be fine against Boyz), and have at minimum 10 Gauss shots apiece. Then Wraiths could clean up a unit. It's possible, yeah.
Well you can get Boyz with 5++ and FNP as well, so don't discount the defensibility either.
I'm still leery about their survivability per point. The game is very killy, especially at a range. T5 W3 3+ feels strong, but there are so many things out there that do damage at S6+ with multiwounds, at ranges longer than our Destroyers. Many superheavies (Knights, Baneblade variants, etc), Manticores, Autocannons, Deep Striking Plasma (especially Chaos with VotLW), Grot Artillery - the list is not small. Again, I think Destroyers are good, but spamming is just asking to get tabled in the current competitive meta.
2018/04/11 16:59:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
The thing that stops Destroyers from being spammy for most players is the fact that the strat can only be used on one unit at a time.
If anything I could see them potentially decreasing the unit max to 5. Still worth taking but would be less shots coming out, plus easier for opponents to kill/prevent RP.
Also they might try increasing the cost of that strat to 2 CP. I'd still take a unit and use that strat, but I'd be less careless about it.
2018/04/11 17:04:20
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
The match-up matters as well. I did 6 destroyers and a dlord vs tau last week and in the one round of shooting the tau player got on them he destroyed the squad of destroyers, leaving the Lord to be less than effective. Granted he used a lot of firepower to do it but the point still stands. They can be killed by the right enemy.
Speaking of tau, how do we deal with the borkan Sept? That extra range plus extra range from their one drone gives them incredible range for large fire warriors squads, our own infantry can't get in range reliability enough to do something. What options do we have to try? I am thinking deep striking 2 warrior squads of 20 and then using a cryptek to move a squad of 10 immortals up to blast them. But that requires us to kill them off before we get triple tapped into oblivion.
2018/04/11 17:10:30
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Requizen wrote: I can't think of any problematic rules I've seen. Nothing really spammy that needs to be nerfed nor ambiguous wording that needs clarification.
Has the issue of the court of the archon units lacking the character keyword come up at all? I've not looked through this thread much.
The court units definitely had the character rule in the index, but I can't see it anywhere in the codex, unless I'm missing something.
2018/04/11 18:57:17
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Requizen wrote: I can't think of any problematic rules I've seen. Nothing really spammy that needs to be nerfed nor ambiguous wording that needs clarification.
Has the issue of the court of the archon units lacking the character keyword come up at all? I've not looked through this thread much.
The court units definitely had the character rule in the index, but I can't see it anywhere in the codex, unless I'm missing something.
Wrong thread? This is necron tactics not DE. I nean you arent wrong. I noticed that too. But...
2018/04/11 19:04:13
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
I can't think of any equivalent issues for Necrons that need to be addressed in a faq. I'm sure there are a few though. I'll have to look over the book a bit more.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/11 19:05:00
2018/04/11 19:56:58
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - the book is out. Discuss!
Yeah, they use Bravery equal the amount of Orks in their unit or a nearby unit. A unit of 20+ Boyz or near a unit of 20+ Boyz is essentially fearless.
Neat.
Well, 17 Destroyers puts out 51 shots a turn, Hitting on 3s, wounding on 3s, ignoring their armor. If played right, the Doomsday Arks could move and shoot (because low-power would be fine against Boyz), and have at minimum 10 Gauss shots apiece. Then Wraiths could clean up a unit. It's possible, yeah.
Yes destro are OP. Best cue: everybody and their mothers are using them.
10000+
10000+
3000+
8000+
3500+ IK Plus 1x Warhound, Reaver, Warlord Titans
~1660
