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2018/04/23 21:56:39
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
hoodwizard wrote: What do you guys think about sautekh wraiths with transdimensional beamers? I like adding mortal wound potential and seems like a good way to take advantage of the ability to shoot and charge after falling back.
It's a really good idea in theory, but the main problem is that it makes the already expensive Wraiths even more expensive. If you have an extra 84 point left over it would be nice, but you also have to ask if those points would be better spent somewhere else. Until they bring down the cost of the Beamers or the Wraiths themselves, I don't think it's worth it. All in all, X Scarab models will probably be more valuable over the course of the battle than X Transdimensional Beamers.
It's not even that good in theory, it'll plunk another 2-3 wounds of a target, but when they move in in CC they are putting 10-12 wounds on that target anyway. If you know in advance that you need that extra damage, then ok, but 84 points of something else probably does that better.
If they get -1 to hit, non-Sautekh or advances with Sautekh, its even worse.
Actually a full squad shooting Transdimensional Beamers would average out 4.67 slain models against MEQ. That full squad of Wraiths in CC would only result 5.33 slain models against MEQ. They end up dealing 10-12 wounds, but that doesn't matter against 1 wound models. So in theory, Transdimensional Beamers nearly double the effectiveness of Wraiths against MEQ. It's still too expensive imo, but it's still an effective strategy if your opponent has a large amount of MEQ.
MEQ aren't the ideal target for Wraiths, but if you want them to be able to deal with MEQ as well, then Transdimensional Beamers are great.
2018/04/23 22:02:05
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
hoodwizard wrote: What do you guys think about sautekh wraiths with transdimensional beamers? I like adding mortal wound potential and seems like a good way to take advantage of the ability to shoot and charge after falling back.
It's a really good idea in theory, but the main problem is that it makes the already expensive Wraiths even more expensive. If you have an extra 84 point left over it would be nice, but you also have to ask if those points would be better spent somewhere else. Until they bring down the cost of the Beamers or the Wraiths themselves, I don't think it's worth it. All in all, X Scarab models will probably be more valuable over the course of the battle than X Transdimensional Beamers.
It's not even that good in theory, it'll plunk another 2-3 wounds of a target, but when they move in in CC they are putting 10-12 wounds on that target anyway. If you know in advance that you need that extra damage, then ok, but 84 points of something else probably does that better.
If they get -1 to hit, non-Sautekh or advances with Sautekh, its even worse.
Actually a full squad shooting Transdimensional Beamers would average out 4.67 slain models against MEQ. That full squad of Wraiths in CC would only result 5.33 slain models against MEQ. They end up dealing 10-12 wounds, but that doesn't matter against 1 wound models. So in theory, Transdimensional Beamers nearly double the effectiveness of Wraiths against MEQ. It's still too expensive imo, but it's still an effective strategy if your opponent has a large amount of MEQ.
MEQ aren't the ideal target for Wraiths, but if you want them to be able to deal with MEQ as well, then Transdimensional Beamers are great.
You're right, I was punching the wrong weapons stats. Something to consider if you're doing Sautekh against power armour I guess.
2018/04/23 22:04:01
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
ski107 wrote: Finally got my T.Vault and 2 Destroyer Squadrons ordered. Had to get them in the UK and then use a bounce shipping service to get it sent across the pond. Still ended up being cheaper than buying stateside even if they were in stock, just extra hoops to go through. Now I'm excited though.
How did you do that? I definitely want to know if it can save me some money to put towards more models lol
2018/04/23 22:18:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Oh, just an interesting tidbit I heard on a podcast: a two Vault + Deceiver battalion list finished near the top of the Broadside Bash. Not entirely clear what the list is because I don't have a BCP subscription and the host wasn't very familiar with Necrons, but probably Vaults+Warriors and maybe Destroyers or Wraiths..
2018/04/23 22:50:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I still don't understand rvd's math regarding lychguard... It seems like scytheguard should have a pretty massive advantage in efficiency versus REQ's over swordguard.
2018/04/23 23:05:53
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
CthuluIsSpy wrote: They should have dropped the whole triarch thing, honestly.
What's the point of introducing all of these dynasties that are supposedly to add flavor if they are all supposed to bow to this centralized authority we never actually see?
No really, what is the triarch supposed to be? Where do they fit in? Where are they based? It doesn't make sense. I get they are supposed to be inspired Roman Praetorians, but Necrons aren't the Roman Empire in space. They are warring Egyptian flavored states in space.
Praetorians should have been the elite personal guard of a dynasty's phaeron, not some galactic necron police force that's based...somewhere and just pops up now and then. Lychguard should have just been generic bodyguards who guarded anyone important. Lords and Overlords get Lychguard, the Phaeron gets praets.
Who ever thought of the current necron background shouldn't be allowed to write fluff, because it doesn't make sense and it's not that interesting.
Its a complicated solution to a problem that could have easily been solved by introducing more C'tan, making them less powerful (one of the few things the retcon did right) and making them each have their own little army of necron servants that behave according to their master's whims.
Having a group of self serving, quarreling gods who want to eat each other to restore a bit of lost power and forces their necron underlings to do whatever they want is a lot more compelling and offers a lot more variations than Not-Egypt-In-Space, and it solves the massive bleeding plot hole of the C'tan stupidly giving control of their slave race to a slave king who still has his free will for some idiotic reason.
Mexican necrons? A C'tan saw a western when messing around with the space time continium and thought it would be funny to give them sombreros.
Don Quixote Necrons? A C'tan became a huge Cervantes fan when it visited Earth during the 17th century, and decided to program an Overlord to act like him.
Magpie Necrons? A C'tan is a greedy collector and assigned an overlord to curate it's museum, as well as "discover" new acquisitions.
You can do a lot of crazy stuff with a bunch of insane physics warping gods.
I don't think you read all of the fluff correctly, because that's not how it works.
I like the fact that the Necrons have much more personality now, than they ever did when they were just mindless drones of all powerfull stargods is a big improvement imo. They have their own desires, interests and goals now. They are much more liek the people they always were, but now in immortal metal bodies. Just with varying degrees of recollection. And there is no plothole. The C'tan didn't give control away. They were overthrown. The C'tan were never in direct control like gods playing with a joystick. They just believed themselves invulnerable, which was 99% true. They just allowed the Necrontyr slightly too much technology. The Triarch took their chance after winning the war and Shattered the C'tan into the shards we have now. In this war 2 of the 3 Phaerons that made up the Triarch were killed, leaving only the Silent King. And he is traveling around the universe incognito mostly going after his own goals of preparing for the Tyranids.
The Triarch Praetorians and Stalkers are therefor a remnants of a long time ago and are basically just (powerfull) spies of the Silent King to see if the different Dynasties aren't doing completely stupid sh*t. So it makes complete sense that they don't benefit from the codes, since they don't belong to any Dynasty. This doesn't mean I wouldn't like some sort of interaction by including a new special character. Maybe a captain of the Praetorians or something. So to at least give them some interaction (appart from Anrakyr and the Illuminor)
Not really tactics related, sorry for that, but just wanted to clear that up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 08:15:49
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/04/23 23:07:25
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
epaemil wrote: So what stats and abilities would the Silent King have? Would be awesome if he was Primarch-level in power.
Well, the same people who write the rules said the Eldar Phoenix Lords were as powerful as primarchs, so there's that...
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2018/04/24 00:13:40
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
epaemil wrote: So what stats and abilities would the Silent King have? Would be awesome if he was Primarch-level in power.
Well, the same people who write the rules said the Eldar Phoenix Lords were as powerful as primarchs, so there's that...
Spoiler:
In the fluff it's said that his body is very different from the rest of the Necrons. Not a metal skelletal frame, but much more flowing and humanoid. So I'm very curious how they will implement this.
Since he's basically a Phaeron, I suspect his statline to be similar to Immotekh. He'll probably have a better MWBD (like +1 to advance, charge, hit and wound?) which can be used twice on any necron. No specific dynasty restriction.
I can also see him having this own special Command Barge, as if the Silent King will walk anywhere...
Probably a secondary ability buffing nearby Praetorian units. Not sure what kind of buff would be best for them. reroll 1 to hit/wound? Or maybe a +1 to Damage, although that's probably way too powerfull.
They could also give him a 0-1 Special unit of Praetorian Bodyguard who might be slightly more expensive (or not) but with a build in better statline. I think he would deserve a secondary Named Character being his Bodyguard/Varguard/Captain of the Guard/Praetorian Alpha?
I could also see him having a more(most?) powerfull version of the Staff of light. Since Immotekh basically has a more powerfull version of the Staff of light, I'd guess Szarekh would have a better version of this.
I'd have no idea how to balance all this though or if this is just way too powerfull. Even though I'd like to try that character out in normal games, I wouldn't mind if they would restrict him to Apocalypse games, or maybe at least 2000p. games.
That's just my thoughts on what I would expect they could do with the character in this ruleset. Will be a LONG while though. I can't really see them giving us the Silent King (or any other non-imperial Primarchesque characters) before they have milked them first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 08:16:37
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/04/24 00:53:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I don't think you read all of the fluff correctly, because that's not how it works.
I like the fact that the Necrons have much more personality now, than they ever did when they were just mindless drones of all powerfull stargods is a big improvement imo. They have their own desires, interests and goals now. They are much more liek the people they always were, but now in immortal metal bodies. Just with varying degrees of recollection.
Which lessens the tragedy of them being turned into monsters. The fact they still act normal and are somewhat human diminishes the aspect of them losing their humanity (necrontyity?) and becoming mechanical abominations. They aren't machines, just metal people. Immortals even respond to their superiors verbally. Why? They are machines. The data should be transferred instantly, not through verbal cues which could be interrupted or misheard. I might as well play Admech.
Necrons were the slaves, C'tan were the masters. You wanted personality? That's what C'tan were for. Its just they needed more development, not throw everything in the trash.
Its like vampires and their undead minions. You don't expect the zombies to start striking up a conversation with their food. That's what the vampires do. That's what the C'tan did. In the third ed codex the Deceiver had a chat with a Callidus assassin before supposedly murdering her.
Nagerash wrote: And there is no plothole. The C'tan didn't give control away. They were overthrown. The C'tan were never in direct control like gods playing with a joystick. They just believed themselves invulnerable, which was 99% true.
No, it is a plothole. The C'tan are supposed to be intelligent and manipulative beings. Why would they ever give their slaves a means to gain freedom? Because that's what the Silent King was. A puppet who sold his and his people's souls to a bunch of star-vampires. Yeah, they are arrogant, but arrogant doesn't mean stupid. There should have been a "do not betray us and obey us unconditionally" clause in the command protocol
And they did give control away. Instead of keeping the command protocols for themselves they arranged it so that the Silent King had them. Why? They designed the bio-transference process, the silent king got the command protocols from the bio-transference process, ergo the C'tan gave the Silent King the command protocols.
Letting the necrons shatter the C'tan also didn't acknowledge the purpose of the Blackstone fortresses. You know, those extremely ancient warp based weapons created by the Eldar to kill C'tan? Those should have been what shattered the C'tan, not the crons. Had that happened, then the necrons gaining independence would have been a logical outcome.
epaemil wrote: So what stats and abilities would the Silent King have? Would be awesome if he was Primarch-level in power.
Well, the same people who write the rules said the Eldar Phoenix Lords were as powerful as primarchs, so there's that...
In the fluff it's said that his body is very different from the rest of the Necrons. Not a metal skelletal frame, but much more flowing and humanoid. So I'm very curious how they will implement this.
Since he's basically a Phaeron, I suspect his statline to be similar to Immotekh. He'll probably have a better MWBD (like +1 to advance, charge, hit and wound?) which can be used twice on any necron. No specific dynasty restriction.
I can also see him having this own special Command Barge, as if the Silent King will walk anywhere...
Probably a secondary ability buffing nearby Praetorian units. Not sure what kind of buff would be best for them. reroll 1 to hit/wound? Or maybe a +1 to Damage, although that's probably way too powerfull.
They could also give him a 0-1 Special unit of Praetorian Bodyguard who might be slightly more expensive (or not) but with a build in better statline. I think he would deserve a secondary Named Character being his Bodyguard/Varguard/Captain of the Guard/Praetorian Alpha?
I could also see him having a more(most?) powerfull version of the Staff of light. Since Immotekh basically has a more powerfull version of the Staff of light, I'd guess Szarekh would have a better version of this.
He'll probably have a dynasty trait that affects triarch stalkers as well as any other unit. Maybe an AoE MWBD as well. Because he's the Silent King, dammit. Only ordering one squad around is beneath him.
Would he have a staff of light? Why not a really powerful warscythe? Or a warscythe with a built in staff of light?
This message was edited 11 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 08:27:27
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/04/24 03:08:39
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Arachnofiend wrote: I still don't understand rvd's math regarding lychguard... It seems like scytheguard should have a pretty massive advantage in efficiency versus REQ's over swordguard.
/
You mean teq?
And yeah, my bad. Didn't input the stats properly in that one. The difference IS quite huge. Probably take the warscythe then since there's no real character protection required.
I can't believe how many times this needs to be repeated,
This is the tactics thread.
TACTICS. Minor fluff discussion might pop up every so often, but much like rules debates, long drawn out comment chains going over what changes Matt Ward wrought upon us, its evolution to the current iteration, and wishlisting what we to see done in the future is better left on other dakka forums (eg. 40k General discussion).
If you ABSOLUTELY must discuss it here, could you at least do like the list critiquing & battle reports and put it under a spoiler? Like so,
Nagerash wrote: I could also see him having a more(most?) powerfull version of the Staff of light. Since Immotekh basically has a more powerfull version of the Staff of light, I'd guess Szarekh would have a better version of this.
Would he have a staff of light? Why not a really powerful warscythe? Or a warscythe with a built in staff of light?
If anything I'd say he'd need a better version of the Rod Of Covenant, seeing as how that's the most iconic of the Praetorians weapons. Maybe mount him on some sort of cross between the Command Barge and the Triarch Stalker? (Supreme Command Ark, etc.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 04:11:32
2018/04/24 06:08:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Arachnofiend wrote: I still don't understand rvd's math regarding lychguard... It seems like scytheguard should have a pretty massive advantage in efficiency versus REQ's over swordguard.
/
You mean teq?
And yeah, my bad. Didn't input the stats properly in that one. The difference IS quite huge. Probably take the warscythe then since there's no real character protection required.
No, I meant Rhino Equivalents, though the same logic applies against terminators of course. My efforts to make lychguard work largely revolve around using them as the secondary anti-armor after my unit of destroyers; I play Nephrekh and want to move quickly to control the middle of the board, so tying myself down in my deployment zone with doomsday arks seems contrary to my goals. This is all theory still unfortunately, the two people I've played against so far post-codex are relatively weak players I would have beaten even with a much less optimized list. >.>
2018/04/24 07:34:33
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
meleti wrote: Oh, just an interesting tidbit I heard on a podcast: a two Vault + Deceiver battalion list finished near the top of the Broadside Bash. Not entirely clear what the list is because I don't have a BCP subscription and the host wasn't very familiar with Necrons, but probably Vaults+Warriors and maybe Destroyers or Wraiths..
This is not correct. I was at Broadside Bash and repping necrons as well. There were 4 Necron lists, and I got to talk to 2 of the 3 other 'cron players there (although did not talk to the 2xTV guy). It's possible somebody mis-entered their army, but they also had a TO checking armies so it seems unlikely.
The top necron list was at 19 (of 68) and was a Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider + Sautekh Aux warlord.
All other Necron lists ended in the bottom half of placings, including myself. Sorry to disappoint my fellow space tomb king bros.
2018/04/24 08:07:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
meleti wrote: Oh, just an interesting tidbit I heard on a podcast: a two Vault + Deceiver battalion list finished near the top of the Broadside Bash. Not entirely clear what the list is because I don't have a BCP subscription and the host wasn't very familiar with Necrons, but probably Vaults+Warriors and maybe Destroyers or Wraiths..
This is not correct. I was at Broadside Bash and repping necrons as well. There were 4 Necron lists, and I got to talk to 2 of the 3 other 'cron players there (although did not talk to the 2xTV guy). It's possible somebody mis-entered their army, but they also had a TO checking armies so it seems unlikely.
The top necron list was at 19 (of 68) and was a Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider + Sautekh Aux warlord.
All other Necron lists ended in the bottom half of placings, including myself. Sorry to disappoint my fellow space tomb king bros.
blistering fresh intel. nice! thanks.
2018/04/24 08:16:25
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
meleti wrote: Oh, just an interesting tidbit I heard on a podcast: a two Vault + Deceiver battalion list finished near the top of the Broadside Bash. Not entirely clear what the list is because I don't have a BCP subscription and the host wasn't very familiar with Necrons, but probably Vaults+Warriors and maybe Destroyers or Wraiths..
This is not correct. I was at Broadside Bash and repping necrons as well. There were 4 Necron lists, and I got to talk to 2 of the 3 other 'cron players there (although did not talk to the 2xTV guy). It's possible somebody mis-entered their army, but they also had a TO checking armies so it seems unlikely.
The top necron list was at 19 (of 68) and was a Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider + Sautekh Aux warlord.
All other Necron lists ended in the bottom half of placings, including myself. Sorry to disappoint my fellow space tomb king bros.
Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?
2018/04/24 08:24:16
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
skoffs wrote: I can't believe how many times this needs to be repeated,
This is the tactics thread.
TACTICS. Minor fluff discussion might pop up every so often, but much like rules debates, long drawn out comment chains going over what changes Matt Ward wrought upon us, its evolution to the current iteration, and wishlisting what we to see done in the future is better left on other dakka forums (eg. 40k General discussion).
If you ABSOLUTELY must discuss it here, could you at least do like the list critiquing & battle reports and put it under a spoiler? Like so,
Nagerash wrote: I could also see him having a more(most?) powerfull version of the Staff of light. Since Immotekh basically has a more powerfull version of the Staff of light, I'd guess Szarekh would have a better version of this.
Would he have a staff of light? Why not a really powerful warscythe? Or a warscythe with a built in staff of light?
If anything I'd say he'd need a better version of the Rod Of Covenant, seeing as how that's the most iconic of the Praetorians weapons. Maybe mount him on some sort of cross between the Command Barge and the Triarch Stalker? (Supreme Command Ark, etc.)
You're right. Fixed it .
Spoiler:
I see the Rod of Covenant more like a police baton. The Staff of light is a badge of office showing the superior status of the people who wield them. That's why I think the Ultimate Staff of Light is probably more appropriate. They might even go the Pariah route en just give him a Warscythe with build in Staff of light/gauss blaster.
- Power corrupts, Absolute power.... is a whole lot of fun...-
2018/04/24 08:24:52
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
WIth Aux Warlord, I would expect it to be the Stormlord for the VP refunds.
I know that a non-names HQ can get that trait, but unless you want that Overlord to be a 100~ points VP factory and nothing else, it would make more sense using Imotehk
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 08:26:29
Experience is something you get just after you need it The Narkos Dynasty - 15k Iron Hands - 12k The Shadewatch - 3k Cadmus Outriders - 4k Alpha Legion Raiders - 3k
2018/04/24 08:26:52
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
meleti wrote: Oh, just an interesting tidbit I heard on a podcast: a two Vault + Deceiver battalion list finished near the top of the Broadside Bash. Not entirely clear what the list is because I don't have a BCP subscription and the host wasn't very familiar with Necrons, but probably Vaults+Warriors and maybe Destroyers or Wraiths..
This is not correct. I was at Broadside Bash and repping necrons as well. There were 4 Necron lists, and I got to talk to 2 of the 3 other 'cron players there (although did not talk to the 2xTV guy). It's possible somebody mis-entered their army, but they also had a TO checking armies so it seems unlikely.
The top necron list was at 19 (of 68) and was a Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider + Sautekh Aux warlord.
All other Necron lists ended in the bottom half of placings, including myself. Sorry to disappoint my fellow space tomb king bros.
Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?
If you just want a dude to sit there, a Cloaktek would probably be the best bet.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2018/04/24 08:34:27
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
I suppose I should also give my lessons learned from Broadside Bash.
I ran Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider. 600 points of 2x6 Destroyers, 550 points of Wraiths, and Anrakyr in the Novokh detachment so he could abandon them and do overlord things with my Destroyers. My list was very similar to the top Necron list (except I invested more in Destroyers) so it was more piloting issues than list issues.
Lessons
- Destroyers were my MVPs by far. They earned back their points every game, took punishment, and kept giving back. I would move to 3x6 in a heartbeat.
- Voltaic Staff does nothing. I placed it on a Cryptek and he didn't do meaningful damage the entire tournament.
- Destroyers are way tankier than I expected. Against S4 armies, I need to use them more aggressively. At one point a squad of boyz with 100 attacks slammed into my destroyers and killed... two of them. They're basically wraiths defensive-wise against units lacking AP.
- Tesla Immortals are better than Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads. Gauss math out stronger at 12", but if my Immortal squad is tethered 3" from the objective, the only shots they're likely to get are at 24".
- Wraiths were pretty meh. They died faster than expected, and didn't punch as hard as I expected. They weren't terrible, but for 1/3rd of my list (counting needing to fill a whole detachment for Novokh), they didn't do their job.
- Mephrit did less than I expected. It was great for warriors/immortals but due to their mobility they were rarely getting in that 12" sweet spot and were minimal shooting compared to the Destroyers. The extra -1 AP on Destroyers never came into play.
- Immortal Pride Warlord trait was a so-so. I got decent mileage out of the antipsyker part, but got very little from the 'ignore morale' part.
- I brought a rez-orb. It earned back points in 1/5 games, and even in that game, 35 more points of troops upfront would have been stronger.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron_Mason wrote: Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?
IIRC, it was a cloaktek. I believe she used the mobility to stand on objectives.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 08:53:05
2018/04/24 09:15:37
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Xachariah wrote: I suppose I should also give my lessons learned from Broadside Bash.
I ran Mephrit Battalion + Novokh Outrider. 600 points of 2x6 Destroyers, 550 points of Wraiths, and Anrakyr in the Novokh detachment so he could abandon them and do overlord things with my Destroyers. My list was very similar to the top Necron list (except I invested more in Destroyers) so it was more piloting issues than list issues.
Lessons - Destroyers were my MVPs by far. They earned back their points every game, took punishment, and kept giving back. I would move to 3x6 in a heartbeat. - Voltaic Staff does nothing. I placed it on a Cryptek and he didn't do meaningful damage the entire tournament. - Destroyers are way tankier than I expected. Against S4 armies, I need to use them more aggressively. At one point a squad of boyz with 100 attacks slammed into my destroyers and killed... two of them. They're basically wraiths defensive-wise against units lacking AP. - Tesla Immortals are better than Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads. Gauss math out stronger at 12", but if my Immortal squad is tethered 3" from the objective, the only shots they're likely to get are at 24". - Wraiths were pretty meh. They died faster than expected, and didn't punch as hard as I expected. They weren't terrible, but for 1/3rd of my list (counting needing to fill a whole detachment for Novokh), they didn't do their job. - Mephrit did less than I expected. It was great for warriors/immortals but due to their mobility they were rarely getting in that 12" sweet spot and were minimal shooting compared to the Destroyers. The extra -1 AP on Destroyers never came into play. - Immortal Pride Warlord trait was a so-so. I got decent mileage out of the antipsyker part, but got very little from the 'ignore morale' part. - I brought a rez-orb. It earned back points in 1/5 games, and even in that game, 35 more points of troops upfront would have been stronger.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Necron_Mason wrote: Now that you mention it, a Sautekh Aux Warlord doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. Do you know what HQ it was specifically?
IIRC, it was a cloaktek. I believe she used the mobility to stand on objectives.
That is all really good information. I would think more than one squad of Destroyers wouldn't be worth it since you can only use the Stratagem once per turn. Glad to hear they can stand on their own. Will have to Mathhammer later to see what and how much of said what I should be throwing them at lol. Also great to know they can survive S4 AP 0 hits like champs.
Tesla>Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads interests me as I was planning on running 3 5xGauss Immortals in a Nephrekh Battalion for 2000 point games to teleport in either on Objectives or right near must-kill/vulnerable targets to add to the damage/finish them off. With the Nephrekh Code they can teleport near an enemy to shoot at them, then if they don't get charged move + advance 11" towards an Objective, or just dump them on the Objective if need be. Would you still suggest Tesla over Gauss in that scenario or do you think Gauss is more optimal for this strategy?
Cloaktek for Objectives does seem like the best and cheapest way to go if doing that. I was considering Immotekh or a Destroyer Lord, but both of them run pretty high in points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/24 09:17:53
2018/04/24 10:06:52
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Necron_Mason wrote: That is all really good information. I would think more than one squad of Destroyers wouldn't be worth it since you can only use the Stratagem once per turn. Glad to hear they can stand on their own. Will have to Mathhammer later to see what and how much of said what I should be throwing them at lol. Also great to know they can survive S4 AP 0 hits like champs.
Tesla>Gauss Immortals for 5 man ObSec Squads interests me as I was planning on running 3 5xGauss Immortals in a Nephrekh Battalion for 2000 point games to teleport in either on Objectives or right near must-kill/vulnerable targets to add to the damage/finish them off. With the Nephrekh Code they can teleport near an enemy to shoot at them, then if they don't get charged move + advance 11" towards an Objective, or just dump them on the Objective if need be. Would you still suggest Tesla over Gauss in that scenario or do you think Gauss is more optimal for this strategy?
Destroyers get a lot better with the stratagem, but they're no slouches when it comes to damage. One thing to note is that if you have 2x6 Destroyer squads, it's mathematically better to use MWBD on the squad that doesn't get MWBD. I had an overlord and a lord supporting, so I'd have 1 destroyer squad stick near to get both their buffs and one squad roaming that would get the stratagem. Also, Extermination Protocols is huge for killing things that are T7+ (90% damage increase), but isn't as dramatic for T5- (50% increase), and supported destroyers (lord + MWBD) only get a minor increase from the stratagem vs T5- (14% increase, although it's still a 42% increase vs T7+).
Your initial strategy would probably work better with Gauss, although that's a ton of CP to burn. Since we're already super CP thirsty, I'd maybe just take tesla so those guys could use Nihilakh 6" advance and still shoot at half effectiveness, given the new 'no deep strike on turn 1' rule.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/24 10:12:41
2018/04/24 10:24:33
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Destroyers get a lot better with the stratagem, but they're no slouches when it comes to damage. One thing to note is that if you have 2x6 Destroyer squads, it's mathematically better to use MWBD on the squad that doesn't get MWBD. I had an overlord and a lord supporting, so I'd have 1 destroyer squad stick near to get both their buffs and one squad roaming that would get the stratagem. Also, Extermination Protocols is huge for killing things that are T7+ (90% damage increase), but isn't as dramatic for T5- (50% increase), and supported destroyers (lord + MWBD) only get a minor increase from the stratagem vs T5- (14% increase, although it's still a 42% increase vs T7+).
Your initial strategy would probably work better with Gauss, although that's a ton of CP to burn. Since we're already super CP thirsty, I'd maybe just take tesla so those guys could use Nihilakh 6" advance and still shoot at half effectiveness. They'd probably even out at just as much shooting and get there at the same time, since you can't deep strike on T1 anymore
Hmmm never thought of that! Will definitely have to consider it in the future! The stats versus T helps a lot!
I honestly don't think CP will be a problem for my list. I have 2 Battalions and a Spearhead for a total of 14 CP, 18/19 on average considering the Sautekh Trait. I'm not sure if 14 CP to spend on Stratagems after TC will be enough to last the entire game as I haven't playtested it yet and still fine tuning some things, but we will see~
2018/04/24 11:07:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
On the voltaic staff, I've had the opposite experience. Equipped on a sniper barge, I've shredded multiple characters with it. You just need to make sure you can get the range with it. Putting it on a cryptek is a bit of a waste as you want that 2+ to hit from the overlord since you are limited to 3 shots. I could see it on a cloaktek for the mobility, but never on a footslogging cryptek. Bargelords are the best platform as you get the best of both worlds with a good BS and the mobility to compensate for the short range.
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sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die. ++
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2018/04/24 12:28:08
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Maelstrom808 wrote: On the voltaic staff, I've had the opposite experience. Equipped on a sniper barge, I've shredded multiple characters with it. You just need to make sure you can get the range with it. Putting it on a cryptek is a bit of a waste as you want that 2+ to hit from the overlord since you are limited to 3 shots. I could see it on a cloaktek for the mobility, but never on a footslogging cryptek. Bargelords are the best platform as you get the best of both worlds with a good BS and the mobility to compensate for the short range.
Yeah I agree voltaic staff is really good, BUT must be built around
2018/04/24 12:38:15
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
That's the main problem with the sniper barge- having to build around it. It uses up your relic and warlord trait which are needed for other things quite often.
Mephrit is great for our troops and they like to have a VoD so that costs a CP. Warriors really like mephrit but if you're using warrior blobs you need the ignore morale warlord trait.
2018/04/24 12:48:46
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
_Ness wrote: dont forget the 2CP vanilla pass morale stratagem in the BRB.
We aren't particularly CP rich, as our troops for battalions are not cheap. The fearless warlord trait can be...really clutch. I run it in almost every game. The ability to deny 1 power a turn has been handy vs Dark Angels and Tyranids.
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Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
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