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Why wouldn't it? It says on a 5+ ignore wounds. This would be taken after armor/invul saves.

It's not a save.

Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good. The AP - 1 is the only way to use them IMO with G cannons to add some more punch. Very fast, very durable with QS.

 Brymm wrote:
Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good.

You're getting Annihilation Barges within 12" of things??

 skoffs wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good.

You're getting Annihilation Barges within 12" of things??

We tend to use a lot of terrain at my FLGS, so it's sometimes tough to get LOS unless you're in close. You'd be surprised how often I end up with long-range units within charge range.

 skoffs wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good.

You're getting Annihilation Barges within 12" of things??

Why not? I am not a fan of the Barges and think they are overcosted. But they are fast, have assault weapons and fly. Why should you not get them close to their targets? Only reason could be, that your opponent shoots them down to fast. This means shoot at T6, 8 Wounds (not becoming weaker after damage) and quantum shields. Sure...they will go down against some shooting. But then the opponent does not shoot on your DDAs or Destroyers....
Before the new anti-spam rule was in place I really disliked tha Barges because of the other (much better) options. But now I think they are just a bit too expensive and actually medicore with Mephrit.

 skoffs wrote:

 Brymm wrote:
Annihilation Barges with Mephrit are good.

You're getting Annihilation Barges within 12" of things??

Try to have them flanking some other advancing units of yours, they're fast and fly, they should be able to get within 12" aboit the same rate your gauss blades do.

Have them move up next to Wraiths and help them clear a flank for example, they won't see much damage while the Wraiths soak it up


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit as for blades, how does its price compare?

It's slower, but the tesla destructors match two tesla blades and then some, the gauss cannon match about two gauss blades outside RF at least. It has more wounds, higher toughness, and has the same damaged output even when three of the four blades have been killed

S7 is a bit unfortunate, it only makes a difference for T5 and up, and those targets start to have good armor saves

 skoffs wrote:

 Nagerash wrote:
https://diceshot.com/2018/04/26/necrons-d-bilzs-lists/

Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?

Ugh, that looks... head scratchingly awkward.
Don't suppose there's any video of that player's games. I'd want to see what he was doing that managed to make that work.

Hey guys, that is me.
A couple things to note
1) The tournament was only like 10ish players.
2) I don't play tournaments with unpainted models.
3) I didn't own any tomb blades prior to the event. (Obviously they are vastly undercosted right now)
4) All of my Necrons are painted one way, so multiple dynasties feels gamey.

The annihilation barges are clearly suboptimal and could probably be 6 more destroyers, but I didn't have that many painted.
Even if I did I'm not sure I would run that many. If you don't care about AP the barge actually has more shots.
I liked having the Heavy gauss cannons which is why I went with 3 smaller units rather than 2 larger ones.
The smaller units helped with the ITC secondary mission objectives and getting targeted with anti tank weapons.

I played
1) Monster Nids: The Nightbringer just cut a swath through this list.
2) Death Guard/Nurgle: Three Plaguebursts, 4 Bloat Drones, Epidemius and some Nurglings camping objectives.
3) Death Guard Pox Zombie with Chaos Fire Raptor and 3 Plague bursts: This was the day before the Errata on reinforcement points.
Won initiative and killed the 40 man cultist squad which limitied his zombie factory pretty significantly, which let me just shoot him off the table.

The list was definitely not perfect, but with only a couple weeks after the codex release it was the best TAC list I could muster.

Nice, thanks for explaining

punisher357 wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.

That's all it needs and should have had.

Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint

Mephrit code on a DDA seems like overkill. How often will a -5 AP really come into play? Most things with a 2+ also have an invuln. If you have a DDA in a Mephrit list, the code isn't going to hurt anything, I just don't know that it's helping anything either.

Doctoralex wrote:Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD

Things that look bad on paper often end up working well in practice. I plan to build the Annihilation Barge from the new SC kit since I already have a CCB. May as well use it and see what it does.

Mephrit would help with it's gauss flayers.....it would make them much more effective and now that the low power weapon profile has been improved I think it's more applicable than ever


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that what gets overlooked with anni barges is that they don't degrade. You have destroyers and better units at full strength....however, a unit of destroyers takes 3 wounds and loses 3 shots if RP is failed.

The anni barge continues trucking along at optimal strength until it's dead.

Why would you want your DDA in short range, where it can't nuke stuff or get charged?

The DDA has a range of 72". Half range is capable of hitting most of a standard table (assuming LOS).

 EnTyme wrote:
The DDA has a range of 72". Half range is capable of hitting most of a standard table (assuming LOS).

You are literally forgetting 2/3 of the weapons on the thing... 20 shots from the gauss arrays are nothing to sneeze at, and Sautekh allows you to move and shoot with the main (though small profile) gun too. Don't leave Baby (DDA) in the corner the whole game.

Yup the DD Ark is great at surprising people at their speed. I have killed many a eldar bike HQ's by flying over their cover units with a 12" Plus Advance and lighting them up.
Remember to use units in all phases of the game, charge that Hell blaster squad and tie it up, you have fly and hell blasters hitting on 6's are not that scary.

 Anpu-adom wrote:

 EnTyme wrote:
The DDA has a range of 72". Half range is capable of hitting most of a standard table (assuming LOS).

You are literally forgetting 2/3 of the weapons on the thing... 20 shots from the gauss arrays are nothing to sneeze at, and Sautekh allows you to move and shoot with the main (though small profile) gun too. Don't leave Baby (DDA) in the corner the whole game.

Oh, I'm not forgetting about it, I'm just reminding C'thulhuSpy that the main gun's range is insane, and you don't have to move it very far to get the benefit of the Mephrit code.

Pyrothem wrote:
Yup the DD Ark is great at surprising people at their speed. I have killed many a eldar bike HQ's by flying over their cover units with a 12" Plus Advance and lighting them up.
Remember to use units in all phases of the game, charge that Hell blaster squad and tie it up, you have fly and hell blasters hitting on 6's are not that scary.

I did something similar in a game against my buddy's Orks. He moved a squad of Boyz up along with some characters, prepping to charge and screening more Boyz behind. After wiping out almost all the Boyz from the first squad, I flew my DD Ark over my gunline to charge that squad, and blocking the Boyz behind from being able to charge anything but the DD Ark. My next turn, I flew away and wash/rinsed/repeated the slaughter (with the addition of 20 Gauss Flayer Array shots coming in). Bonus was he also charged my Ark with a character, and after falling back with it, left that character as the closest target (who then took 4 low power shots to the face from my cannon).

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

Spoiler:

 EnTyme wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
A 2+ save and the ability to portal engaged infantry units without drawback.

That's all it needs and should have had.

Not for 381 pts.... not in my opinion or my gaming group


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm really liking the dda though. Great support unit. Im looking forward to trying the mephrit code with a few ghost arks, warrior blobs, and dda's


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However, I think mephrit will be fairly limited in usefulness from a competitive standpoint

Mephrit code on a DDA seems like overkill. How often will a -5 AP really come into play? Most things with a 2+ also have an invuln. If you have a DDA in a Mephrit list, the code isn't going to hurt anything, I just don't know that it's helping anything either.

Doctoralex wrote:Lol, imagine the Anhil. Barge secretly being our best unit, but everyone thinks it's a pile of gag so it never gets used xD

Things that look bad on paper often end up working well in practice. I plan to build the Annihilation Barge from the new SC kit since I already have a CCB. May as well use it and see what it does.

Mephrit would help with it's gauss flayers.....it would make them much more effective and now that the low power weapon profile has been improved I think it's more applicable than ever


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think that what gets overlooked with anni barges is that they don't degrade. You have destroyers and better units at full strength....however, a unit of destroyers takes 3 wounds and loses 3 shots if RP is failed.

The anni barge continues trucking along at optimal strength until it's dead.

My local metal is 500-1250 due to a current builders league.

I'm really loving the idea of TC'tan, backed by big warrior squads, with Crypteks, and Scarabs for screen.

I'd love to run 3 TC'tan, purely for the theme of the list. I'm going predynastic, fully under Star God rule.

Are 3 TC'tan viable at these points, maybe even adding in one of the mains C'tan as HQ, viable?

Blndmage wrote:
My local metal is 500-1250 due to a current builders league.

I'm really loving the idea of TC'tan, backed by big warrior squads, with Crypteks, and Scarabs for screen.

I'd love to run 3 TC'tan, purely for the theme of the list. I'm going predynastic, fully under Star God rule.

Are 3 TC'tan viable at these points, maybe even adding in one of the mains C'tan as HQ, viable?

The problem you'll have there is how the rules make you select your powers for the ctan. You won't exactly be able to cherry-pick all of the best powers. They constructed the rules to limit that, and with good reason.
It also depends on what you're going to be playing against.

punisher357 wrote:

Blndmage wrote:
My local metal is 500-1250 due to a current builders league.

I'm really loving the idea of TC'tan, backed by big warrior squads, with Crypteks, and Scarabs for screen.

I'd love to run 3 TC'tan, purely for the theme of the list. I'm going predynastic, fully under Star God rule.

Are 3 TC'tan viable at these points, maybe even adding in one of the mains C'tan as HQ, viable?

The problem you'll have there is how the rules make you select your powers for the ctan. You won't exactly be able to cherry-pick all of the best powers. They constructed the rules to limit that, and with good reason.
It also depends on what you're going to be playing against.

I'm a bit confused here, you can pick your powers, with some caveats to stop doubling, or you can roll, rerolling duplicates.

We've got a bit of everything locally, harlequin, nids, Necron, ultramarines, blood angels, nurgle marines, daemons, elder, and I know I'm missing folks. I think the local group is up to 44 players.

Blndmage wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

Blndmage wrote:
My local metal is 500-1250 due to a current builders league.

I'm really loving the idea of TC'tan, backed by big warrior squads, with Crypteks, and Scarabs for screen.

I'd love to run 3 TC'tan, purely for the theme of the list. I'm going predynastic, fully under Star God rule.

Are 3 TC'tan viable at these points, maybe even adding in one of the mains C'tan as HQ, viable?

The problem you'll have there is how the rules make you select your powers for the ctan. You won't exactly be able to cherry-pick all of the best powers. They constructed the rules to limit that, and with good reason.
It also depends on what you're going to be playing against.

I'm a bit confused here, you can pick your powers, with some caveats to stop doubling, or you can roll, rerolling duplicates.

We've got a bit of everything locally, harlequin, nids, Necron, ultramarines, blood angels, nurgle marines, daemons, elder, and I know I'm missing folks. I think the local group is up to 44 players.

You can pick your powers, but you can't pick a duplicate power until every other power is taken... Unless I'm remembering wrong which is possible because I don't have the Codex with me.
Personally I feel like the tctan is a little bit too much of a point investment for what they do, at least in a group of 3. They dish mortal wounds well, but not a huge amount of them. I think by taking 3, which is a hefty points cost, you're really limiting your options. Like I said before, I like having options. If you're just going for a fluffy list and you're not worried about winning or being competitive I think you'll have a lot of fun though.

 Nagerash wrote:
https://diceshot.com/2018/04/26/necrons-d-bilzs-lists/

Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?

There are some clever parts to it, the annihilation barges can really shine with a -1 AP, QS gives them basically a 4++ against d6 damage weapons, and are fast enough to reliably get close. He runs the Ghetto celestine D-Lord pretty much stock from this thread. He uses the veil to teleport the 10 man immortal squad into position and MWBD to make some explosive close range firepower. The only things I'm struggling to figure out is the destroyers and the deathmarks. He could have run them as a 6 man destroyer squad and a 3 man heavy destroyer squad, but instead ran them in three groups of 2 -1. He basically gives up RP for those units, is he trying to protect the heavy destroyers, or make it harder to take out destroyers. He also limits his access to Extermination protocols, since he has three units that can use it and none of them large enough to really take advantage of it. I think I figured out the deathmarks actually, he is using them to protect his C'Tan and D-Lord. You can't shoot at a character unless it is the closest unit, deep strike the deathmarks right near the middle of the enemies formation (preferably out of LOS) and then runs the D-Lord and C-Tan up with impunity. That's dirty, but explains why his two CC bruisers don't have an escort like scarabs.

Lots of new ideas to take in with the list, not sure I'm on board with the destroyers squads like he has them, but the rest of the list is novel enough to make me take a second look.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Nagerash wrote:
https://diceshot.com/2018/04/26/necrons-d-bilzs-lists/

Apparently this list became 1st at a tournament. I can't really see how. It doesn't look that good to me, or am I missing something?

There are some clever parts to it, the annihilation barges can really shine with a -1 AP, QS gives them basically a 4++ against d6 damage weapons, and are fast enough to reliably get close. He runs the Ghetto celestine D-Lord pretty much stock from this thread. He uses the veil to teleport the 10 man immortal squad into position and MWBD to make some explosive close range firepower. The only things I'm struggling to figure out is the destroyers and the deathmarks. He could have run them as a 6 man destroyer squad and a 3 man heavy destroyer squad, but instead ran them in three groups of 2 -1. He basically gives up RP for those units, is he trying to protect the heavy destroyers, or make it harder to take out destroyers. He also limits his access to Extermination protocols, since he has three units that can use it and none of them large enough to really take advantage of it. I think I figured out the deathmarks actually, he is using them to protect his C'Tan and D-Lord. You can't shoot at a character unless it is the closest unit, deep strike the deathmarks right near the middle of the enemies formation (preferably out of LOS) and then runs the D-Lord and C-Tan up with impunity. That's dirty, but explains why his two CC bruisers don't have an escort like scarabs.

Lots of new ideas to take in with the list, not sure I'm on board with the destroyers squads like he has them, but the rest of the list is novel enough to make me take a second look.

I wonder if the destroyers are clean-up crews for the annihilation barges. The annihilation barge lays down close range firepower using the mephrit code to soften targets up, then the heavy destroyers finish them off from range. The regular destroyers are extra firepower on anything that gets too close.

The small units would let you cover most of the board.

Well the guy already posted here saying it was largely due to not having other models ready.

punisher357 wrote:

You can pick your powers, but you can't pick a duplicate power until every other power is taken... Unless I'm remembering wrong which is possible because I don't have the Codex with me.

Yup, you've got it right. I think there is a loop hole to this, which is by using the Cosmic Powers Stratagem. The limit is imposed on choosing your powers before the battle. Cosmic Powers lets you replace one you've chosen with a different one during a movement phase, theoretically letting you double up on powers between 2 C'Tan/TArks. It's a bit of a stretch, so I'd definitely confer with my opponent or roll off before trying it.

Also, since they are not psychic powers, and there is nothing in their rules stating you can't, it appears to be legal to use the same power twice in one phase. Ugh, 2 Transcendent C'Tans running up into the middle of the enemy and both dropping Cosmic Fire...gross

 Gojiratoho wrote:

punisher357 wrote:

You can pick your powers, but you can't pick a duplicate power until every other power is taken... Unless I'm remembering wrong which is possible because I don't have the Codex with me.

Yup, you've got it right. I think there is a loop hole to this, which is by using the Cosmic Powers Stratagem. The limit is imposed on choosing your powers before the battle. Cosmic Powers lets you replace one you've chosen with a different one during a movement phase, theoretically letting you double up on powers between 2 C'Tan/TArks. It's a bit of a stretch, so I'd definitely confer with my opponent or roll off before trying it.

Also, since they are not psychic powers, and there is nothing in their rules stating you can't, it appears to be legal to use the same power twice in one phase. Ugh, 2 Transcendent C'Tans running up into the middle of the enemy and both dropping Cosmic Fire...gross

uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.

But I think these guys could be good with triplets. They are very similar to Flyrants, just not sure why they have a BS skill if they cant shoot.

[/spoiler]

People just see the big gun on DDA. Usually 2-3 DA and/or combined with nephrek destroyers you will blast off most T8+ units on the table by turn 2.
Then just using low power profile will be good enough for what's left, and 20 rapid fire shots helps a lot to clear infantry. Sauthek or Mephrit for those.
I also use them (and the ghost ark) to screen my fragile troops. Ghost ark is the most robust unit we have point for point, followed closely by DDA. If you take away DMG2 weapons, they can take quite a beating.

 Dynas wrote:


uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.

There is another stratagem, "Cosmic Power", which lets you replace a power you already have with another. (pg 112, last one on the left)

MrPieChee wrote:

 Dynas wrote:


uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.

There is another stratagem, "Cosmic Power", which lets you replace a power you already have with another. (pg 112, last one on the left)

If you're investing all the points for 3 Tctan it would make sense to pitch a couple command points to ensure you get optimal powers. That would make for a pretty strong fire team

MrPieChee wrote:

 Dynas wrote:


uhhh...are you referring to the Wrath of Ctan power where you can cast another power. The cosmic Powers just lets you choose another power at the Beginning of the movement phase, before casting your Ctan power which is done at the end of the movement phase.

There is another stratagem, "Cosmic Power", which lets you replace a power you already have with another. (pg 112, last one on the left)

Yeah, using the strat "Cosmic Powers" to swap a C'Tan power could be used to circumvent the rule of not being able to choose multiples of a power until all 6 are chosen. So you have a match with 2 C'Tans, we'll say using powers 1 2, and 3 4. Using the strat, you could select powers 1, 2, 3, or 4 to replace one of your currently chosen powers without needing to select powers 5 and 6. The new loadout could be 1 2 on one C'Tan, and 2 3 on the other.

I am looking for tactics against Craftworld Eldar.
Any ideas?

What type of eldar list? Multiple units of dark reapers? Jetbikes? Grav-tanks