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2018/05/03 14:49:22
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Combined with their Warlord trait, its an effective anti Markerlight tool. However, now we are getting into Deathwatch Tactica, so let's get back to Necrons. Does anyone that is more familiar with Deathwatch think this is going to be a problem for us, or just a minor inconvenience we will have to face from time to time?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/03 14:55:05
2018/05/03 14:49:25
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Ha, jokes on them. A good Deathwatch player would just ignore our RP by killing us entirely. Which is easy.
Lol fair enough. Even so, this stratagem makes any lucky chance that one of our units does survive much less sweet if they are in range to use it.
At least we didn't get as screwed as the Tau did XD
Anpu-adom wrote: So? Deathwatch are the anti-Xenos codex... SM players aren't going to give up their codex rules (including Bobby G) just to rain on our parade. Not when the rules will be useless next to 2/3 of the armies in the game.
At worst, there might be a small detachment of Deathwatch in an army. If you are really worried, you can make them your main target for DDA and Wraiths, etc.
Yeah, I can't imagine seeing pure Deathwatch armies too often, but with the Anti-Xenos rules I can see a lot of people splashing in a Detachment of them. Honestly not too worried, but something else we have to worry about.
How did Tau get screwed?
A squad can shrug their markerlights 1 once per round for 1 CP.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
2018/05/03 14:58:14
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Not sure if this has been discussed, but I just listened/watched to a Frontline gaming Twitch video where someone asked Reece if units can move after disembarking from a Monolith or Scythe. Reece apparently had a talk with one of the rules writers about this and the answer is yes!
Why couldn't they just have included it in the FAQ? Typical GW.
Instead they have things like (a bit exaggerated): "I'm color blind and played against a guy with Ultramarines. I later heard that the Ultramarines where green, Can I beat up the guy?".
'Yes, but only if you charge from a flying transport.'
2018/05/03 15:07:07
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Cmdr_Sune wrote: Not sure if this has been discussed, but I just listened/watched to a Frontline gaming Twitch video where someone asked Reece if units can move after disembarking from a Monolith or Scythe. Reece apparently had a talk with one of the rules writers about this and the answer is yes!
Why couldn't they just have included it in the FAQ? Typical GW.
Instead they have things like (a bit exaggerated): "I'm color blind and played against a guy with Ultramarines. I later heard that the Ultramarines where green, Can I beat up the guy?".
'Yes, but only if you charge from a flying transport.'
Yup, pop out of a monolith within 3 of the hull, and then move as normal, makes for 1" charges if you are willing to pay for the overpriced flying paperweight.
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/05/03 15:07:14
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Assault armies post FAQ xD Also, who are those armies with failed charges? Here's the list of charges I've faced: 3D6, 3'' charges(due to warptime/infiltrate+move equivalents), close range deepstrike. If you're facing anyone who does deepstrike->8/9'' charge (except orks), you are facing bad opponents with bad lists.
"The destroyers get 16.7% more deadly vs anything with a 2+ or 3+ save" that's not good enough to put them into a bad position
"Walk there". Well another army can drive/fly/whatever there. The footslogging troops should really stay at that 24'' tange picking off the closest target. Since if you kill it, nothing else can usually reach you to strike back. You can also deepstrike within 12'' but that can only be done on a single unit with veil. Deceiving doesn't work because 50% of the time you won't go first and the squishy elite tier troops.
I have no idea how you're not dying if you have everything within 12'' of your opponent and Necrons are actually not good durability wise as long as the opponent focuses units from 100% to 0%
Cool your jets, no reason to get aggressive about it.
I've run into Kraken slingshotted genestealers double moving and advancing into a charge. They bump into a scarab screen. scarabs die. Then the Genestealers die to my troops. Its an effective trade. Dark eldar had the same problem, just found their vehicles annoying to kill.
Destroyers are fast enough to get where they want to be. Depends on the matchup if I run them in Nephrek outrider in DS or Mephrit on the board.
Our troops are some of the best in the game. I feature them heavily, and I give my opponents other things to shoot. Namely, wraiths in a Nephrek outrider going for the first turn charge with the strategem. That way, I get more str 5 shooting goodness. More often than not, they split their fire, and I can usually recover.
If you think this is aggressive, you haven't been on the internet for as long as I have :p
Anywho, genestealers charging scarabs is just a mistake from him. They should never charge scarabs (early on anyway) if they're getting out of position and not charging another unit without FLY. This way they can easily surround a model and prevent you from leaving combat.
Destroyers being fast enough does not matter here. You're putting them within 12'' range of the enemy. Unless the enemy is very out of position - that's a really bad thing to do and definitelly not worth +1 AP when most things have an invul save.
Our troops are not even close to being best in the game. Mid tier maybe? That's why you don't see heavy troops list doing well in tournaments. Short range. Bad durability. Sure, the dakka is pretty good, but it's not something to write home about either. Troops, HQs are tax for us. As much Fast attack + DDAs as possible + battalion is what makes a good list (IMO)
Combined with their Warlord trait, its an effective anti Markerlight tool. However, now we are getting into Deathwatch Tactica, so let's get back to Necrons. Does anyone that is more familiar with Deathwatch think this is going to be a problem for us, or just a minor inconvenience we will have to face from time to time?
That's pretty hilarious.
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty
2018/05/03 15:37:28
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
If you think this is aggressive, you haven't been on the internet for as long as I have :p
Anywho, genestealers charging scarabs is just a mistake from him. They should never charge scarabs (early on anyway) if they're getting out of position and not charging another unit without FLY. This way they can easily surround a model and prevent you from leaving combat.
Destroyers being fast enough does not matter here. You're putting them within 12'' range of the enemy. Unless the enemy is very out of position - that's a really bad thing to do and definitelly not worth +1 AP when most things have an invul save.
Our troops are not even close to being best in the game. Mid tier maybe? That's why you don't see heavy troops list doing well in tournaments. Short range. Bad durability. Sure, the dakka is pretty good, but it's not something to write home about either. Troops, HQs are tax for us. As much Fast attack + DDAs as possible + battalion is what makes a good list (IMO)
Oh, I agree, but I put them in the way of the stuff he actually wanted to charge as bait, and he took it.
-4 Only really matters vs a few factions, agreed, but its hardly wasted in my mind.
Our troops will outshoot any other troops in the game in my mind minus guard hordes w/ FRFSRF. Doesn't that make them good by definition?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/03 15:37:45
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/05/03 16:10:06
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Necron_Mason wrote: So new Deathwatch Stratagems were teased and I think we might have some trouble on our hands
I hope they have similar "bully" stratagem aginst other Xeno races, to make it more fair. I am both Necron player and Deathwatch player. Lol
Yes, they have a strategem that targets each xenos race. They are in the article on the Warhammer Community site today.
Rather than worry about lower reanimation protocols, Deathwatch can choose a type of battlefield role to get rerolls against. It is going to be annoying because so many of our best units are Fast Attack. Oh, and they have multiple ways to change that battlefield roll mid-game.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
2018/05/03 16:31:30
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
If you think this is aggressive, you haven't been on the internet for as long as I have :p
Anywho, genestealers charging scarabs is just a mistake from him. They should never charge scarabs (early on anyway) if they're getting out of position and not charging another unit without FLY. This way they can easily surround a model and prevent you from leaving combat.
Destroyers being fast enough does not matter here. You're putting them within 12'' range of the enemy. Unless the enemy is very out of position - that's a really bad thing to do and definitelly not worth +1 AP when most things have an invul save.
Our troops are not even close to being best in the game. Mid tier maybe? That's why you don't see heavy troops list doing well in tournaments. Short range. Bad durability. Sure, the dakka is pretty good, but it's not something to write home about either. Troops, HQs are tax for us. As much Fast attack + DDAs as possible + battalion is what makes a good list (IMO)
Oh, I agree, but I put them in the way of the stuff he actually wanted to charge as bait, and he took it.
-4 Only really matters vs a few factions, agreed, but its hardly wasted in my mind.
Our troops will outshoot any other troops in the game in my mind minus guard hordes w/ FRFSRF. Doesn't that make them good by definition?
"-4 Only really matters vs a few factions, agreed" Well don't you think 6'' advance and deepstrike matters for destroyers way more often?
Will our troops really outshoot people point for point? I don't know...
Necron Warriors are 12 pts, 1 shot 4 str 1 ap(no specials) with 24'' RF.
Admech Rangers are 7 pts, 1 shot 4 str 0 ap(1 ap on a 6) with 30'' RF.
Durability wise Rangers are -1T and no RP (obvsly) but have auto-cover with canticles or re-roll 1s in shooting
And do you see AdMech (especially troops spam) on top tables? Nope :(
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/03 16:33:56
Whatever people say, I'll still be spamming warriors on my tables. In my games (I refuse to play in tournaments), the warriors have been nothing but a nuisance. My friends try to kill them all but fail, every time. I almost always have 90% of my stuff left on the table in the end. Them shooting at warriors is them not shooting at my destroyers and vehicles.
40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty
2018/05/03 16:50:03
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
"-4 Only really matters vs a few factions, agreed" Well don't you think 6'' advance and deepstrike matters for destroyers way more often?
Will our troops really outshoot people point for point? I don't know...
Necron Warriors are 12 pts, 1 shot 4 str 1 ap(no specials) with 24'' RF.
Admech Rangers are 7 pts, 1 shot 4 str 0 ap(1 ap on a 6) with 30'' RF.
Durability wise Rangers are -1T and no RP (obvsly) but have auto-cover with canticles or re-roll 1s in shooting
And do you see AdMech (especially troops spam) on top tables? Nope :(
Why would advance ever matter to a destroyer? if you aren't shooting with them, you are not using them well. Deep strike is good, but only useful t2 unless your opponent is aggressive since the beta rules dropped. My meta involves a lot of gunlines I have to move up against, so its value for me is limited.
I've never had issues killing Admech troops in droves (I play against them a lot. The only thing they have that scares me is a squad of double tapping triple phosphor blaster kastellan robots in a Cawl castle.) We have stratagems to remove the benefits of cover, which comes in handy pretty often vs anything dug in. Aggressive needs to be the way to handle that strategy. Destroyers fill that role well.
Troop spam? No, not really, but 3x10 mephrit immortals is the core of most of my lists, and they don't generally disappoint me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/03 16:50:39
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
2018/05/03 17:31:00
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Well you advance with destroyers if you're not in range of anything important anyway or to get to objectives. With gunlines, you risk destroyers getting blown up turn 1 as it's not easy to hide 6 of them and be able to get them in range the next turn (of anything meaningful anyway).
And you playing against admech friends is not the point here. The points is - if spamming troops, admech troops are a lot better and they're still not great. Meaning warriors are just filler. Immortals are about on par(a bit better than) with warriors. Meaning they're still worse than admech troops. 3x10 immortals or 1x20 2x10 is what you should do. Nothing more, nothing less, IMO
I really think the only reason everyone dislikes warriors is because, if you're going to use them, you have to support them. I think the warriors aren't as "killy" as other things and therefore get a bad rep.
If you support them they're hard to shift and require a lot of attention. You have to have ghost arks and you need to use the ghost arks to keep the warriors from being assaulted.
Are they our most competitive option? No. I don't think it can be argued that they're the max in a min max list because they require a significant points investment for support.
2018/05/03 18:33:14
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
punisher357 wrote: I really think the only reason everyone dislikes warriors is because, if you're going to use them, you have to support them. I think the warriors aren't as "killy" as other things and therefore get a bad rep.
If you support them they're hard to shift and require a lot of attention. You have to have ghost arks and you need to use the ghost arks to keep the warriors from being assaulted.
Are they our most competitive option? No. I don't think it can be argued that they're the max in a min max list because they require a significant points investment for support.
Do you mean landing the Ark in front of them?
2018/05/03 19:32:26
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
punisher357 wrote: I really think the only reason everyone dislikes warriors is because, if you're going to use them, you have to support them. I think the warriors aren't as "killy" as other things and therefore get a bad rep.
If you support them they're hard to shift and require a lot of attention. You have to have ghost arks and you need to use the ghost arks to keep the warriors from being assaulted.
Are they our most competitive option? No. I don't think it can be argued that they're the max in a min max list because they require a significant points investment for support.
Do you mean landing the Ark in front of them?
You can do that, but I've also heard of people assaulting with the ark to keep a heavy assault unit from stomping your warriors, then falling back the next turn and blasting them again. It's a viable strategy.
2018/05/03 19:42:32
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Werekill wrote: How many tomb blades do you all tend to run, if any? And what do you outfit them with?
I remember hearing that they would be all-stars of our Codex, but I haven't heard of anyone running them in a while.
The battalion change pushed them out of the running, for me. They're basically more mobile, more durable Immortals, which is great, but I value the CP more.
2018/05/03 21:30:48
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Werekill wrote: How many tomb blades do you all tend to run, if any? And what do you outfit them with?
I remember hearing that they would be all-stars of our Codex, but I haven't heard of anyone running them in a while.
The battalion change pushed them out of the running, for me. They're basically more mobile, more durable Immortals, which is great, but I value the CP more.
I haven't really done any of the math on the CP's......if you're running sautekh with the WL trait does that compensate enough or not really?
2018/05/03 23:17:24
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Anyone else checked out the latest GT army lists? Not checked them all but at least a few people are running x3 Tesseract Vaults, Deceiver, Cryptek and a few Scarab swarms for objectives. Its clearly a very strong list due to the mortal wound output, I'd hate to see the Tesseract Vault nerfed because of it though.
2018/05/03 23:27:43
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Towenaar wrote: Anyone else checked out the latest GT army lists? Not checked them all but at least a few people are running x3 Tesseract Vaults, Deceiver, Cryptek and a few Scarab swarms for objectives. Its clearly a very strong list due to the mortal wound output, I'd hate to see the Tesseract Vault nerfed because of it though.
I think it's been de-bunked that a list like that lives or dies by how much anti-tank your opponent has, or simply by how many big units your opponent brings. C'tan powers are great for dealing mortal wounds to hordes/MSU's, not so much to big vehicles and monsters.
2018/05/04 00:44:11
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
So took stock of the collection I "rebought" (it was my old one from 7th and the guy sold it back to me plus the necron half of Forgebane).
60x warriors 10x tesla immortals 12x deathbringers (I think that's their name?) 6x Lords 1x Imokhet 1x bodyguard guy 6x wraiths 5x named cryptek guy with the spider bottom (used them for crypteks, hated the old models) 5x Lychguard built 10x Lychguard/Praetorian in box 2x scythes 2x monoliths 2x barges/command barges 15x scarab bases 1x DDA 1x Ambulance 2x Stalkers 3-6x tomb blades All necrons in forgebane
I'm sure there's more that i've forgotten. Now I need to make an army out of it. For now, I want to paint:
5x tesla immortals 5x deathbringers 5x scarabs 1x Lord
Not sure how to build the lord yet for such a small force, but I want to get at least this part done by the weekend.
Thoughts on what I can do with it or at least what to paint after this first batch? I really love the idea of a tesla immortal force taking the board.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/05/04 00:46:51
(also, what Dynasty and WL trait. At the moment I'm thinking Nephrekh so the Destroyers can pop in, but if I free up some points to add another HQ I can give them their own Outrider)
Right now I'd say the main problem might be how to get the Vault into play (assuming I'm going second). Everything else should be able to operate as normal.
2018/05/04 04:08:12
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
What are the 3 swarms for? I'd probably take the full ten Immortals. I assume they're for going after an obj with the O/L and you already have two 5 man squads to babysit others or occupy space, so that I don't see their point.
Sautekh Hyperlogical strategist makes sense. Buy the relic SoL for the Cryptek.
2018/05/04 04:36:51
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Anyone else find it somewhat imbalanced that the Deathwatch anti-Necron stratagem is a flat -1 (-16.67%) to Reanimation Protocols for a single CP, whereas our boost stratagem is 2 CP to reroll 1's (5.5% increase in reanimates, 8.33% with a Cryptek)? Both single unit, single turn.
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2018/05/04 05:20:09
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
Unless DW gain a huge amount of trickery that boosted their survivability or offensive ability, or gain a tremendous amount of point drop, I think we don't need to be too concerned about them. If want to tackle them, just return to Mephrit Dynasty, load up more Immortals / warriors and shoot them dead. They tends to be lower model count so drown them with Silver Phalanx can be an option. Every lost of those marine is at least 19pts down, while lossing one Immortals is 17pts loss.
2018/05/04 08:16:16
Subject: Re:Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
(also, what Dynasty and WL trait. At the moment I'm thinking Nephrekh so the Destroyers can pop in, but if I free up some points to add another HQ I can give them their own Outrider)
Right now I'd say the main problem might be how to get the Vault into play (assuming I'm going second). Everything else should be able to operate as normal.
Personally, I'd go sautekh because you've only got 8 CP and TVs are super thirsty for them. You'll want to burn 10-12+ not even counting things like character rezzing or quantum shielding stratagems.
* 1 per turn on destroyers
* 1 on damage control
* 2 on Methodical Destruction if there's a priority target (MWBD + Tesseract Vault is a lot of 6s, and you get DDAs hitting on 2s)
* 2-4 on Wrath of the C'tan
I'm not so sure that you'll need to pop in the destroyers, given that you'll have a bunch of big scary threats on the board and they'll be relatively less likely to draw fire.
2018/05/04 08:34:02
Subject: Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - New FAQ discussion p.72
At what point does a Lord become a better investment for Destroyers rather than Extermination Protocols? With everyone recommending 2 Destroyer units for a Nephreak Battalion/Outrider detachment it is probably best we figure out the best/cheapest way to make them as reliable as possible.
Extermination Protocols let's 1 Destroyer unit Re-roll all failed Hit and Wound rolls for that phase for 1CP. While that is awesome if we are investing 2 Destroyer units and we have access to 8-10 CPs (roughly 11-14 CPs if using Sautekh Warlord trait). So, if you use an average of; 2 CPs re-roll 1 die during 2 different phases a turn, Nephreak Stratagem, Destroyer Stratagem etc that would be 4 CPs gone in your 1st turn already which is a lot of our supply gone.
I'm starting to think that a Lord w/ Thrall of The Silent King, Cryptek w/ VoD in-between 2 Destroyer units might be a better investment in the long run.
We won't be able to re-roll all of our hit and wound rolls but it does stop us from using more CPs.
However, if we are to use Extermination Protocols than I think it is probably better to use Extermination Protocols during the 1st turn or 2 when we have the CPs and once everything tough is gone and our opponent has squishy stuff left we should be able to clear the field without extra help.
What do you guys think?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/04 08:37:36
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