Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Jackers**

Xachariah wrote:
By this sort of logic, Nemersor Zahndrekh's Counter Tactics ability does absolutely nothing because 'aura ability' isn't defined anywhere.

That is an impressive, nonsensical leap you've made there. Trying to tell someone that 'an attack' is limited to shooting and stabbing is rules lawyer-ing in my book. If a tourney rules-set says it doesn't count, fine, but I'd be careful about trying to argue that with someone during a game.

**Xachariah**

It's not a leap. The rules has undefined keywords like 'aura ability' or 'attack', and it's up to us to figure them out based on evidence in the books.

In the BRB, the word 'attack' is referred to at least 6 dozen times to refer to shooting or stabbing somebody. It's used zero times to refer to other abilities that cause the target to suffer wounds. So we can infer from the rules that attacks are shooting-or-stabbing somebody, and that they aren't abilities that don't shoot or stab somebody.

In the BRB, there is a reference to 'aura abilities' but no actual definition on what they are. It references that it works on Nurgle's Gift, so I guess Aura Abilities counts as all abilities which have a radius? But without an actual definition, all we're left with is an educated guess on what an aura ability actually is.

There's IMO, much better evidence in favor of attacks being shoot-or-stab (literally dozens of references), than there is evidence that any given ability is or isn't an aura. If you take a hardline 'context and references don't matter; only a direct definition counts' then you get sillyness like everything being an attack (including vehicle explosions), and nothing (or everything) being an aura ability.

**Nagerash**

Guys, this is not tactics, but rule lawyering.

There are other boards for that.

**Jackers**

Agreed, I'll shut up about it now.

**hirojlance**

Xachariah wrote:
It's not a leap. The rules has undefined keywords like 'aura ability' or 'attack', and it's up to us to figure them out based on evidence in the books.

In the BRB, there is a reference to 'aura abilities' but no actual definition on what they are. It references that it works on Nurgle's Gift, so I guess Aura Abilities counts as all abilities which have a radius? But without an actual definition, all we're left with is an educated guess on what an aura ability actually is.
. . . nothing (or everything) being an aura ability.

Aura abilities are discussed in the rulebook - Right side bar, page 179.

"Some units - usually CHARACTERS - have abilities that affect certain models within a given range. . . . For example, a Lord of Contagion has the Nurgle's Gift ability, which affects all DEATH GUARD models within 7" of him."

I would not call this a reference, I would call this a definition - "aura abilities" is a defined word.

It is not a Keyword - which is defined under paragraph #9 on page 175.

But as others have mentioned this is not a thread to discuss rules queries, but Necron tactics - to which it looks like more FLG love!

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/05/06/the-celestial-orrery-necron-dynasty-overview-nephrekh/

**Fragile**

Take that to YMDC forums

**rvd1ofakind**

Ok Mephrit lovers, tell me why a situational 1/6 improvement in damage that makes you get out of position is worth it over 6'' advance?

**torblind**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ok Mephrit lovers, tell me why a situational 1/6 improvement in damage that makes you get out of position is worth it over 6'' advance?

Because it's a flexibility that can get you out of a pinch, and because it's fun rolling 6s

**Inevitableq**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ok Mephrit lovers, tell me why a situational 1/6 improvement in damage that makes you get out of position is worth it over 6'' advance?

Its also a minus one to hit. So a damage increase versus movement and a damage decrease. Generally i prefer more damage to less.

**Okapi**

Quick question: Is it possible to use a Monolith or Night Scythe to transport Triarch Praetorians?

**krodarklorr**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ok Mephrit lovers, tell me why a situational 1/6 improvement in damage that makes you get out of position is worth it over 6'' advance?

Just used a 2k Mephrit force this weekend. Me and T'au vs. T'au and Guard. I advanced up the board, and because of tactical objectives, they had to move around as well. the T'au flyers bombed my dudes, but had to pass over into my threat range to do so, and in which case ceased to exist on my turn. Also, I played aggressively, and both A-barges cut through a fair bit of their units. And I ran the Sniper Barge. Killed Commissar Yarrick with it.

I also did try out two squads of Praetorians, one squad of each weapon variant. They did soak a lot of small arms fire which was good I guess, but otherwise didn't do much. Not impressed, especially with their points cost.

But we did win with a huge lead in points, and they called the game at the bottom of turn 4. I had most of stuff still alive.

**Odrankt**

Running this for the giggles

Spoiler:

PB Tomb Blades are tax and tank dangerous shots so my more precious TBs survive. both units cuddle the Cryptek, Only advance the Cryptek to the TBS are popping Tesla and the Cryptek stays in easy movement. Eventually when Destroyers drop from DS you can then bunch everything together to great a distraction blob.

What do ye guys think for 1000ish pt investment?

**rvd1ofakind**

Inevitableq wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ok Mephrit lovers, tell me why a situational 1/6 improvement in damage that makes you get out of position is worth it over 6'' advance?

Its also a minus one to hit. So a damage increase versus movement and a damage decrease. Generally i prefer more damage to less.

Wow, this is the dumbest thing I've read all week. Congratulations.

So right now you are comparing Mephrit in a situation where you are out of range (since you're advancing). So in this case Mephrit does literally nothing...

Also, you do know that you can advance onto an objective for example? Hurting the enemy is cool and all but points are what win the game.

**torblind**

Hey, keep it civil.

You confused the flat 1/6 damage increase of the Mephrit Stratagem with the general -1 to AP that all Mehprit get, which will have a variable damage increase, relative to what AP you start with, and what armor your target is, which is what gets you out of position.

**Inevitableq**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Inevitableq wrote:
rvd1ofakind wrote:
Ok Mephrit lovers, tell me why a situational 1/6 improvement in damage that makes you get out of position is worth it over 6'' advance?

Its also a minus one to hit. So a damage increase versus movement and a damage decrease. Generally i prefer more damage to less.

Wow, this is the dumbest thing I've read all week. Congratulations.

So right now you are comparing Mephrit in a situation where you are out of range (since you're advancing). So in this case Mephrit does literally nothing...

Also, you do know that you can advance onto an objective for example? Hurting the enemy is cool and all but points are what win the game.

I love how angry and hostile you are about everything. Its very amusing. Also have you considered learning to position better? I rarely find myself needing to advance more than a couple times a game and all we play is maelstrom. We do not have a best dynasty. They are all tailored to different purposes. Trying to say the situational damage is always worse than automatic 6" is absurd. Neither option is better at all times. Just like all of our options besides destroyers they are situational.

**skoffs**

Odrankt wrote:
Running this for the giggles

Spoiler:

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [51 PL, 961pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 288pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 288pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

++ Total: [51 PL, 961pts] ++

PB Tomb Blades are tax and tank dangerous shots so my more precious TBs survive. both units cuddle the Cryptek, Only advance the Cryptek to the TBS are popping Tesla and the Cryptek stays in easy movement. Eventually when Destroyers drop from DS you can then bunch everything together to great a distraction blob.

What do ye guys think for 1000ish pt investment?

Might as well throw some Scarabs in to top off the last 39 points.

**Odrankt**

skoffs wrote:
Odrankt wrote:
Running this for the giggles

Spoiler:

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [51 PL, 961pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

+ Fast Attack +

Destroyers [18 PL, 300pts]
. 6x Destroyer: 6x Gauss Cannon

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 288pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

Tomb Blades [14 PL, 288pts]
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Nebuloscope, Particle Beamer
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine
. Tomb Blade: Shieldvanes
. . Two Tesla Carbines: 2x Tesla Carbine

++ Total: [51 PL, 961pts] ++

PB Tomb Blades are tax and tank dangerous shots so my more precious TBs survive. both units cuddle the Cryptek, Only advance the Cryptek to the TBS are popping Tesla and the Cryptek stays in easy movement. Eventually when Destroyers drop from DS you can then bunch everything together to great a distraction blob.

What do ye guys think for 1000ish pt investment?

Might as well throw some Scarabs in to top off the last 39 points.

Thought I had included them.

Alternatively, you could drop the Destoryers for lots of Scarabs but than it's bad against anything T7 above.

**tneva82**

rvd1ofakind wrote:
Also, you do know that you can advance onto an objective for example? Hurting the enemy is cool and all but points are what win the game.

OT but oh so true. My orks yesterday got 2 draws(and 1 minor loss) by in 3 games killing full units: 2 assasins, scarabs, dark eldar archon.

Not too shabby getting 2 draws and minor loss with such an amazing kill ratio

BTW that game against necrons was tough one. Wraith+destroyers nasty fast mobile tough squads and 20 necron warriors actually defeated 25 stormboyz. First charge took light casualties from OW, due to distance didn't get full impact, then they fell back and shot them and after recharge while I still kept killing more than they they kept coming back. Being grinded down in h2h by necron warriors...

**Tiberius501**

Hey guys, was interested to see what you thought of this list I’m experimenting with.

Spoiler:

I know Sautekh is probably the better choice here and I should be taking 3 Scythes for the stratagem but I’m also going with the models I have+minimum extra to buy to keep it cheap. It also doesn’t have Destroyers but could the Doom Scythes fill their spot to an extent? I’m curious to know if this list could do alright or if it’s not worth it.

Thanks awesome peeps

**rvd1ofakind**

Inevitableq wrote:

I love how angry and hostile you are about everything. Its very amusing. Also have you considered learning to position better? I rarely find myself needing to advance more than a couple times a game and all we play is maelstrom. We do not have a best dynasty. They are all tailored to different purposes. Trying to say the situational damage is always worse than automatic 6" is absurd. Neither option is better at all times. Just like all of our options besides destroyers they are situational.

I just say what's on my mind. If I see something dumb, I'll say it's dumb. Oh and "I'd rather do more damage than less durr hurr". Really?

Positioning better is cute until you fight an opponent who will shoot you off of the objectives. Then you'll need to move onto them with another unit.

And obviously we do not have a "best at every scenario". No army does. However there are objectively best <subfaction> which are the best because they work more often. Nephrekh is that IMO. Mephrit is a trap. If you have a primarily shooting army and have 24'' range guns, you usually want to stay 23,9'' away from the enemy. So you can shoot them and they can't shoot back as efficiently.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
Hey, keep it civil.

You confused the flat 1/6 damage increase of the Mephrit Stratagem with the general -1 to AP that all Mehprit get, which will have a variable damage increase, relative to what AP you start with, and what armor your target is, which is what gets you out of position.

Yes, that's why I said it's a situational 1/6 damage increase. Situational meaning it doesn't even do anything vs: high invul saves, low armor.

**torblind**

Only its not situational.

The Mephrit stratagem is always 1/6 damage increase. Regardless.

On the other side, the -1 to AP is never 1/6 damage increase. It's always more, unless invul, where its no difference.

**rvd1ofakind**

I never once talked about the Mephrit stratagem.

And by 1/6 I mean that with mephrit you situationally do 1/6 more damage looking from the Mephrit side.
Normal damage = mephrit * 5/6

Either way. Not worth getting out of position for that

**Maelstrom808**

Tiberius501 wrote:
Hey guys, was interested to see what you thought of this list I’m experimenting with.

Spoiler:

Nephrekh Dynasty

HQ
- Overlord w/ Scythe and veil
- Cryptek w/ Cloak and the Solar Staff
TROOPS
- 10x Tesla Immortals
- 10x Gauss Immortals
- 18x Warriors
ELITE
- 9x Lychguard w/ sword & shield
FAST ATTACK
- 6x Scarabs
- 5x Wraiths
HEAVY
- Doomsday Ark
FLYER
- Doom Scythe
- Doom Scythe

I know Sautekh is probably the better choice here and I should be taking 3 Scythes for the stratagem but I’m also going with the models I have+minimum extra to buy to keep it cheap. It also doesn’t have Destroyers but could the Doom Scythes fill their spot to an extent? I’m curious to know if this list could do alright or if it’s not worth it.

Thanks awesome peeps

If you are taking doom scythes (which are a casual unit at best), you REALLY should have them as Sautekh. They only get D3 shots with their death ray, and since they are heavy and the doom scythe can't hover, you'll be at BS4 with it all the time. This means that the majority of the time, they will accomplish nothing at all with it.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Yeah, bit of design flaw with the codex. I shouldn't have to take a specific dynasty to make a unit learn how to use its main gun properly.

**krodarklorr**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, bit of design flaw with the codex. I shouldn't have to take a specific dynasty to make a unit learn how to use its main gun properly.

I se no problem with it. Heavy Weapons actually mean something now. If I riptide jumps over a hill, it shouldn't be able to fire it's cannon effectively. If a Doom Scythe is zooming at screw-off speeds, literally screeching through the air, its giant gun should have a little problem hitting things.

It sucks from a crunch point of few sometimes, such as this case (I really love Doom Scythes), but I'm okay with it as a rule.

**_Ness**

well it shoud have no problem. is fkn millions of years in the making and build for that kinda shooting

**Tiberius501**

_Ness wrote:
well it shoud have no problem. is fkn millions of years in the making and build for that kinda shooting

Yeah if Space Marines have tech that can shoot heavy on the move (stormravens) I feel like Necrons should, as technologically perfect beings

**krodarklorr**

Tiberius501 wrote:
_Ness wrote:
well it shoud have no problem. is fkn millions of years in the making and build for that kinda shooting

Yeah if Space Marines have tech that can shoot heavy on the move (stormravens) I feel like Necrons should, as technologically perfect beings

Monoliths.

Also Scythes fly a lot faster than Stormravens.

**CthuluIsSpy**

krodarklorr wrote:
Tiberius501 wrote:
_Ness wrote:
well it shoud have no problem. is fkn millions of years in the making and build for that kinda shooting

Yeah if Space Marines have tech that can shoot heavy on the move (stormravens) I feel like Necrons should, as technologically perfect beings

Monoliths.

Also Scythes fly a lot faster than Stormravens.

Doesn't matter. A race of machines that technologically proficient should have discovered the super advanced technology of a fire control system. Like what we have in the 21st century.
Especially for a vehicle that's designed to fire a certain weapon.

Really, all vehicles should ignore the penalties for heavy weapons.

**skoffs**

ANYWAY, back to tactics discussion.

At what number does it stop being efficient to even take certain units anymore?

Like, certain units we want to max out because, hey, more shots/attacks/survivable. But sometimes you really gotta pinch those points to balance a list so you have to start trimming the fat on certain units.

Say Destroyers. Obviously having 6 is ideal, but 5 is still pretty good... but what about 4 or 3? Still worth taking the unit at that size or should you just reinvest the points elsewhere?
Same with Tomb Blades. 9 is frickin amazing for getting Tesla spam on. 6 is still pretty good... But what about 3?
Wraiths at 6 strong are pretty intimidating. 5 strong still fine. 4 strong is a distraction unit... Is 3 just a waste?
Warriors. 20 will get you some decent results. 15 can still get the job done often enough... 10 doesn't seem like a good idea.
3 Doomsday Arks are going to wreck stuff. 2 will still cause a headache... 1 will probably die immediately before it has a chance to earn its points back.

Obviously there are certain exceptions (minimum sized units of Scarabs and Immortals are still incredibly useful), but at what point do you have to stop because you're spreading your units out too thin?