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Got destroyed yesterday. Played 2k pts vs Deathwatch.

I took T Vault, 19 x warriors, 6 x wraith, 6 x destroyers, 9 x tomb blades, 2 x 9 scarabs, Cryptek.

Vault did nothing really, did something like 10W total during 2 rounds before it got destroyed.

Destroyers in 1 turn annihilated flyer and then died.

Tomb blades tanked some shoots and didn't do much.

This wounding on 2s from Deathwatch is so powerful.

Wraith killed 6-7 dudes, librarian and died. Barely got their points back.

So conclusion:
1. Destroyers can destroy and die next turn.
2. Tomb blades are okay.
3. Warriors did not do much.
4. Vault did not work

So really i do not know how to make Necrons competitive.
Maybe 3x 6 Destroyers, 3 x 9 Tomb Blades, D Lord, Cryptek?

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
Got destroyed yesterday. Played 2k pts vs Deathwatch.

I took T Vault, 19 x warriors, 6 x wraith, 6 x destroyers, 9 x tomb blades, 2 x 9 scarabs, Cryptek.

Vault did nothing really, did something like 10W total during 2 rounds before it got destroyed.

Destroyers in 1 turn annihilated flyer and then died.

Tomb blades tanked some shoots and didn't do much.

This wounding on 2s from Deathwatch is so powerful.

Wraith killed 6-7 dudes, librarian and died. Barely got their points back.

So conclusion:
1. Destroyers can destroy and die next turn.
2. Tomb blades are okay.
3. Warriors did not do much.
4. Vault did not work

So really i do not know how to make Necrons competitive.
Maybe 3x 6 Destroyers, 3 x 9 Tomb Blades, D Lord, Cryptek?

1. Gotta remove the targets that will easily kill your destroyers when they drop in, and then they have a chance of surviving. Remember, when they drop, they can be 24 inches away.
2. Tomb Blades are very good. How did you run yours?
3. Warriors are generally outshined by Immortals vs Marines.
4. I don't see a need for a vault in really...any list in my mind. People say running 3 of them is good...but I don't buy it.

Deathwatch are one of those armies you need to cause casualties to quickly. Otherwise they deal a boatload of damage back to you in kind.

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
So really i do not know how to make Necrons competitive.
Maybe
3x 6 Destroyers,

I'm running a minimum of 2x6 now for redundancy purposes. Working out alright.

3 x 9 Tomb Blades,

Whoa, that's gonna be a lot of Tesla! (108 shots before adding extras). Hopefully you're running them Sautekh for Methodical Destruction!

D Lord,

Nah, not generally worth it. Regular Lord's buff is better.

Cryptek?

Maybe, but you've gotta play your guys carefully, otherwise Technomancer won't even come into play.

Replace Vault with DDAs. Replace Warriors with Immortals.
Should work better.

Yeah if you want a Destroyer Lord you want him as Ghetto Celestine. For that purpose though? I haven't been disappointed at all.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah if you want a Destroyer Lord you want him as Ghetto Celestine. For that purpose though? I haven't been disappointed at all.

Maybe at lower point games that might be okay, but at higher point games where you're going to have a lot of CP I feel like not taking the Strategist WLT is like playing with a handicap.
Not sure how the Mephrit CCB Sniper fits in (whether worth taking in low or high point games).

W00t W00t!

https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/05/25/the-celestial-orrery-necron-dynasty-overview-nihilakh/

I prefer to run TB with Practice Casters so S6 AP0. Wounding on 2s T3 - cultists, guard, horrors and other meat shields. It's only 24pts 2W 3 shots -1 to hit 12' move. Much better than warriors.
Fully upgraded with gauss imho they're too expensive :(

I don't like Tesla immortals. With AP0 and S5 i have hard time killing even SM in cover. And all meta is around "- to hit" so no exploading 6s.

If I take a unit of 20 warriors can I purchase a Ghost Ark for them as a dedicated transport even though they cannot fit in it?

No, you cant. You must purchase two ghost arks, to fit all in.

 p5freak wrote:

Msolve wrote:
If I take a unit of 20 warriors can I purchase a Ghost Ark for them as a dedicated transport even though they cannot fit in it?

No, you cant. You must purchase two ghost arks, to fit all in.

...
Yes, you can take a Ghost Ark even if your unit of Warriors is over 10 models.
Additionally, you cannot split a unit to stick half of it into a Ghost Ark.

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Msolve wrote:
If I take a unit of 20 warriors can I purchase a Ghost Ark for them as a dedicated transport even though they cannot fit in it?

No, you cant. You must purchase two ghost arks, to fit all in.

...
Yes, you can take a Ghost Ark even if your unit of Warriors is over 10 models.
Additionally, you cannot split a unit to stick half of it into a Ghost Ark.

Thank you for this info!

 skoffs wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Msolve wrote:
If I take a unit of 20 warriors can I purchase a Ghost Ark for them as a dedicated transport even though they cannot fit in it?

No, you cant. You must purchase two ghost arks, to fit all in.

...
Yes, you can take a Ghost Ark even if your unit of Warriors is over 10 models.
Additionally, you cannot split a unit to stick half of it into a Ghost Ark.

Technically, you can even buy a ghost ark for your monolith. Unless theyve FAQed that?

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:


While I find your other points regarding deployment somewhat questionable, this does make sense. Deepstriking Destroyers is almost always the best choice, but the Immortals can go either way, and not knowing could throw the opponent off as they try to plan for both possibilities.

Well, at this point we'll just have to chalk it up to different playstyles. I've been running the list for awhile and know what works for me.

Actually, the Coldstar has about a 50/50 chance of popping the Overlord, whereas the Cryptek dies 3 times over. The difference in durability is kinda massive. If I'm the Tau player, 50/50 is pretty off putting. How often is the repair ability making a difference for you?

50/50 is as good as dead as far as my dice are concerned The repair ability has not saved a DDA from dying, but it has saved me CPs by keeping it on the top damage tier.

I wouldn't be so sure, they're rather infuriating. Mostly because the game is often decided by whether or not they pass their invuls. You got lucky on your 4++? guess I'm dead then. I've found self destructing scarabs very useful for tidying up Bike captains who didn't quite die when they were supposed to.

That's like facing a triple riptide or double riptide + xv109 list with tons of drone support. If they tank saves, you win. If not, you better hope you can win by playing the mission.

My list for competitive play focuses on a Silvertide hybrid
My list:

*Nightbringer is a great MW generator is escorted by the Blades and deters aggressive armies like Dark Eldar and Nids. I like to Castle up to provide all of the auto-pass Morale/Technomancer buffs. What do you think?

v0iddrgn wrote:
My list for competitive play focuses on a Silvertide hybrid
My list:

Spoiler:

Battalion- Nephrekh
Szeras
Lord (veil, Voidblade)

2x20 Warriors
5 Immortals

Nightbringer

6 Destroyers
9 Tomb Blades (Tesla)
6 Scarabs

D Ark
2 Heavy Destroyers

*Nightbringer is a great MW generator is escorted by the Blades and deters aggressive armies like Dark Eldar and Nids. I like to Castle up to provide all of the auto-pass Morale/Technomancer buffs. What do you think?

Get rid of those two Heavies and drop some Warriors/Scarabs to free up enough points for another DDA (it's the only vehicle in your list. The chances of it surviving first turn are very slim)

 skoffs wrote:

v0iddrgn wrote:
My list for competitive play focuses on a Silvertide hybrid
My list:

Spoiler:

Battalion- Nephrekh
Szeras
Lord (veil, Voidblade)

2x20 Warriors
5 Immortals

Nightbringer

6 Destroyers
9 Tomb Blades (Tesla)
6 Scarabs

D Ark
2 Heavy Destroyers

*Nightbringer is a great MW generator is escorted by the Blades and deters aggressive armies like Dark Eldar and Nids. I like to Castle up to provide all of the auto-pass Morale/Technomancer buffs. What do you think?

Get rid of those two Heavies and drop some Warriors/Scarabs to free up enough points for another DDA (it's the only vehicle in your list. The chances of it surviving first turn are very slim)

Redundancy is key in every list. A single unit standing out like that lone DDA makes it a prime target.

Alright, played a 3 round ITC event today 22 players. I took 11th.
My list was


Tied game one against blood angel with guard. Played objectives and spammed mortal wounds. My list performed well but a shadow sword is just going to delete a vault a turn. The CP regeneration here us just ridiculous. Ended as 17-17 tie at end of round 3

Lost game 2 vs blood angel with guard again. No shadow sword thulis time but more leeman russ and mortar/heavy weapons teams made up for it. I feel i could of won this one but i rolled really really poorly for both tesla and ctan powers. If that had been even average i believe id of won. Final score was 15-20. blood angel jet pack guys with 8 attacks are brutal. Again just ridiculous cp regeneration.

Won round three vs deathguard. Marines,cultists, termies, demon prince and a bloat drone. With a bunch of character support. This was a blow out for my side. The frontal assault deployment let me be in his face turn one even without deceiver. Nothing in his list likes wortal wounds. I had him tabled by the furst half of turn three. Final score was 33-4.

I made a couple of placememr mistakes with the crypteks and i forgot strategems a couple twice. Vaults performed very well but the boat loads of anti tank multiwound shots from guard were very tough to weather. Cloaktek healing never mattered even once. The abyssal staff is absolutely awesome. Im going to be fitting it into more lists from.now on.

Against the Death Guard guy, was he rolling for his Disgustingly Resilient against the mortal wounds?

Disgustingly Resilient can be taken against mortal wounds. Its not a save, its a rule that procs when the model loses a wound.

Inevitableq wrote:
Alright, played a 3 round ITC event today 22 players. I took 11th.
My list was

Spoiler:

Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Necrons) [75 PL, 1488pts]


Dynasty: Sautekh

Lord of War-

Tesseract Vault(companion cube paint job) [25 PL, 496pts]:
Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire,
Power of the C'tan: Seismic Assault,
Power of the C'tan: Sky of Falling Stars,
Power of the C'tan: Time's Arrow

Tesseract Vault(silver paint job) [25 PL, 496pts]:
Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire, Power of the C'tan: Seismic Assault,
Power of the C'tan: Sky of Falling Stars,
Power of the C'tan: Time's Arrow

Tesseract Vault(green paint job) [25 PL, 496pts]:
Power of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor,
Power of the C'tan: Cosmic Fire,
Power of the C'tan: Sky of Falling Stars,
Power of the C'tan: Transdimensional Thunderbolt

Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) [28 PL, 512pts]


Dynastic Heirlooms Dynastic Heirlooms: 1 Extra Artefact (-1CP)

Dynasty Choiceynasty: Sautekh

HQ-

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Artefact: The Veil of Darkness, Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light
. Warlord: Warlord Trait (Sautekh): Hyperlogical Strategist

Cryptek [5 PL, 85pts]: Artefact (Sautekh): The Abyssal Staff, Canoptek Cloak, Staff of Light

Elites-

C'tan Shard of the Deceiver [12 PL, 225pts]ower of the C'tan: Antimatter Meteor
Power of the C'tan: Transdimensional Thunderbolt

Fast Attack-

Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]:3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]:3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs [2 PL, 39pts]:3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

103 PL, 6 CP, 2000pts

Tied game one against blood angel with guard. Played objectives and spammed mortal wounds. My list performed well but a shadow sword is just going to delete a vault a turn. The CP regeneration here us just ridiculous. Ended as 17-17 tie at end of round 3

Lost game 2 vs blood angel with guard again. No shadow sword thulis time but more leeman russ and mortar/heavy weapons teams made up for it. I feel i could of won this one but i rolled really really poorly for both tesla and ctan powers. If that had been even average i believe id of won. Final score was 15-20. blood angel jet pack guys with 8 attacks are brutal. Again just ridiculous cp regeneration.

Won round three vs deathguard. Marines,cultists, termies, demon prince and a bloat drone. With a bunch of character support. This was a blow out for my side. The frontal assault deployment let me be in his face turn one even without deceiver. Nothing in his list likes wortal wounds. I had him tabled by the furst half of turn three. Final score was 33-4.

I made a couple of placememr mistakes with the crypteks and i forgot strategems a couple twice. Vaults performed very well but the boat loads of anti tank multiwound shots from guard were very tough to weather. Cloaktek healing never mattered even once. The abyssal staff is absolutely awesome. Im going to be fitting it into more lists from.now on.

I'm impressed you could go tied against something that deleted a vault a turn

Yes he was rolling for disgustingly resilient. But having essentially a 5+ save as his only protection doesnt help a ton. And yeah i was impressed too. He ignored my other stuff which was letting me score. If hed spared some fire fir scarabs or went after objectived himself hed probably had won.

Hey, guys, could I possibly get some thoughts on this list:



The Destroyer Lord will probably go with the Wraiths, relying on his casket to stay alive. The Overlords will each stick with one of the Tesla Immortal units to buff them.

I know the Destroyer Lord is bad, but he's my favourite model so I still want to use him.

Anyway, I'm looking for recommendations for which Dynasty (or Dynasties) to use in this list, and for whether I should take any additional relics or such.

But any thoughts on the list in general would be much appreciated, as I'm struggling to come up with any lists that appeal to me.

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Hey, guys, could I possibly get some thoughts on this list...

You dont need two overlords, get a lord or cryptek for the second one. One overlord can buff both immortal units with the phaerons will stratagem for 1CP. Cryptek will help reanimate them, lord will let them re-roll wound rolls of 1. The Dlord isnt bad. Two units of 4 destroyers arent good, its better to max one unit, makes it harder to wipe them out, and you can roll RP for them. Use the saved points on scarabs. Buffed immortals should be sautekh, for methodical destruction. Wraiths and Dlord can be novokh or nephrekh, either get fast into melee, or re-roll failed hit rolls.

 p5freak wrote:

 TheFleshIsWeak wrote:
Hey, guys, could I possibly get some thoughts on this list...

You dont need two overlords, get a lord or cryptek for the second one. One overlord can buff both immortal units with the phaerons will stratagem for 1CP. Cryptek will help reanimate them, lord will let them re-roll wound rolls of 1. The Dlord isnt bad. Two units of 4 destroyers arent good, its better to max one unit, makes it harder to wipe them out, and you can roll RP for them. Use the saved points on scarabs. Buffed immortals should be sautekh, for methodical destruction. Wraiths and Dlord can be novokh or nephrekh, either get fast into melee, or re-roll failed hit rolls.

Thanks.

Does this look better?

... I don't understand. It's the first thing posted in this thread, in big bold colored font so it will stand out so no one will miss it.
And it keeps getting repeated every few pages.
But it
just
keeps
happening.

Can everyone please be considerate and spoiler your lists when you post them to the tactics forum?
(I mean, this isn't even the right section to get list critique in)

 skoffs wrote:

... I don't understand. It's the first thing posted in this thread, in big bold colored font so it will stand out so no one will miss it.
And it keeps getting repeated every few pages.
But it
just
keeps
happening.

Can everyone please be considerate and spoiler your lists when you post them to the tactics forum?
(I mean, this isn't even the right section to get list critique in)

Sorry for not reading from page 1 in a ~125-page thread.

I have a dilemma, I’m trying to run a bataillon but all the troops I have are 20 warriors and 10 Tesla Immortals. I’m wondering if if I should play one 20 warrior squad with two 5 immortal squads or one 10 immortal squad with two 10 warrior squad. What’s your takes on this?

I've had a lot of success with mephrit. I really think people are sleeping on this dynasty. I am undefeated with mephrit except for one draw. The +1 ap at half range really deters close combat units especially when they know that closer combat is where we are not as strong. Most of my lists are overlord +cryptek as HQ. Always have the nightbringer. Then usually 2 20 warriors and a 10 man immortal squad. I've also taken a single DDA. t either is able to destroy a vehicle a turn or it takes all the firepower the first turn. I then mix either wraiths or destroyers. I just stalk forward into objectives. Veil of darkness for If things go bad or I need to capture an objective across the board.

My bbn last 2 games were 3000 points. My opponent had lists that were heavily armoured. 3 flyers, a landraider, an imperial knight. By the end of the 4th all the vehicles were gone as being too close with flyers gave me the +1 ap. 60 warriors hitting on 3s, even wounding on 5s at -2 ap Were killing a flyer a turn.

Just thought I'd share this. The mission was either 4 or 5 on maelstrom so I had to be weary of objectives still.

mhalko1 wrote:

Spoiler:

I've had a lot of success with mephrit. I really think people are sleeping on this dynasty. I am undefeated with mephrit except for one draw. The +1 ap at half range really deters close combat units especially when they know that closer combat is where we are not as strong. Most of my lists are overlord +cryptek as HQ. Always have the nightbringer. Then usually 2 20 warriors and a 10 man immortal squad. I've also taken a single DDA. t either is able to destroy a vehicle a turn or it takes all the firepower the first turn. I then mix either wraiths or destroyers. I just stalk forward into objectives. Veil of darkness for If things go bad or I need to capture an objective across the board.

My bbn last 2 games were 3000 points. My opponent had lists that were heavily armoured. 3 flyers, a landraider, an imperial knight. By the end of the 4th all the vehicles were gone as being too close with flyers gave me the +1 ap. 60 warriors hitting on 3s, even wounding on 5s at -2 ap Were killing a flyer a turn.

Just thought I'd share this. The mission was either 4 or 5 on maelstrom so I had to be weary of objectives still.

I think you're right. Mephrit isn't the end all be all, but it's a good option if you play to its strengths.
Definitely need to be aggressive

Had a break from 8th for a couple of months and then started playing with the 8th edition codex, here are some lists, with brief battle reports and some thoughts on the individual games and overall thoughts on Necrons. My secondary play group doesn't allow more than two of the same unit unless it is a troops unit, I try to follow this rule in most of my games to avoid stale spammy armies.


Overlord, Lord, Cryptek (cloak), 3x10 Tesla Immortals. 6 Destroyers, 3 Obelisks. Everything was Mephrit. Might not be entirely what I brought.

I hadn't read the new beta rules, which we decided to play with. I played on a heavily populated board against a Zerker spam list. The +1 to wound stratagem is just hax, it's stupid that an Obelisk gets hacked to death so easily, they seem really weak. I even cheated and deep striked within 12" with the two Obelisks that were allowed to DS (why is it >12" again?). I rolled really badly and failed to blow up his Rhinos with my Destroyers so I spent all my Tesla on Rhinos instead of Zerkers. Never take more than one Obelisk, one might be good in rare circumstances, but never three.


Szeras WL (6" Fearless), Lord (sword/veil), Anrakyr, 2x20 Warriors, 10 Immortals (tesla), 10 Praetorians, 6 Scarabs, 7 Scarabs, 6 Destroyers, 3 Heavy Destroyers. Everything was Mephrit.

I lost the game against a Warrior based Nid force, I threw away my Praetorians killing only about 200 pts worth of stuff and the board was stupidly heavily populated so I couldn't field half my Warriors at the front and they basically just shielded against backfield Deep Strikes. My Destroyers got popped by his long range shooting after doing next to nothing. Szeras was pretty cool, I'm warming up to him because few of my opponents are using AP shooting ATM, but as soon as that changes he's not worth it compared to a Chronometron Cryptek I feel like. The list lacked more gauss or multi-damage melee to deal with a list like the one I faced.

I'm going to make the Destroyers, Heavy Destroyers, Anrakyr and the two units of Scarabs Nephrekh if I use the list again, but I mostly think it was a case of not playing well and being on an unfavourable map. I'll add that I wanted to make a list including Anrakyr, Szeras and at least one unit of Praetorians. I might switch out the Heavy Destroyers for a DDA, but not on the boards I'm playing on ATM as the mobility is just more important and I'm not really sold on Sautekh DDAs.


Cryptek (cloak) WL (+3" abilities), Lord (hyperphase sword/res orb), Overlord (scythe/the orb of eternity), 2x6 Destroyers, 2x3 Scarabs, 7 Tomb Blades (particle), 3 Tomb Blades (particles), 2x3 Heavy Destroyers. Everything was Nihilakh.

Played against the Zerker spam list on another stupidly overpopulated board (16 buildings I think). My opponent got to have most of the objectives on his side of the board. I wasn't too concerned about charges against my Destroyers because I had my res-orbs, I hadn't considered the possibility that they'd be entirely destroyed in a turn. Lost on objectives (6-5-4-3-2-1 objective game), I'd call it a massacre but I did get to pop some Zerkers so it was fun enough. This was mostly a test to see how well a troops-less list could do. I'm still a big fan of Tesla Immortals so I don't think I'll go this route. The bikes are stupidly cheap compared to index, but I'm not sure if I want to assemble any more of these bastards and the +5 CP is a must IMHO.


Overlord (voidscythe), Overlord (voidscythe), CCB (4+ invul relic, -1 to hit WL trait), Lord (scythe), Cryptek (cloak + veil), 6x10 Immortals (tesla), 6 Destroyers, 2x5 Scarabs. Everything was Nephrekh.

I played against a list with a bunch of Thousand Sons characters, Magnus and a blob of Plaguebearers backed by a Daemon Prince giving them -1 to hit. We played with the ITC rules for ruins, which meant I lost out on some shooting because I still wasn't used to the rules. The -2 to hit on the plaguebearers was a death sentence for my army and I was forced into a corner to avoid CC so he got a bunch of objectives. Destroyers deep striked turn 1 and managed an impressive 0 wounds against Magnus (-1 to hit 3+ invul). He misplayed Magnus and was fairly unlucky with his psychic powers so I did manage to kill more than he did, but a board wipe was impossible because he had some Nurglings hiding in his backline.

I don't really like Nephrekh on my Immortals, it rarely came into play and in case of Marines I would really want Mephrit. I think this list does well against a number of things, but if you get first turn you can't really touch Rhinos. I'd probably replace a couple of tesla immortal units with gauss immortal units. Not sold on the voidscythes, I'm leaning towards them being a waste of points ATM.


Anrakyr, Cryptek (chronometron + veil), 10 Immortals (tesla), 2x10 Immortals (gauss), 6 Destroyers. These were Nephrekh. Kutlakh, 2x10 Lychguard (warscythes) 3x3 Scarabs. Maynarkh but I used the translocation beams rules from Nephrekh, which I'm pretty sure I can do? I don't think you can use the Stratagem though?

Thought I'd get more use out of the highly populated boards that my opponents seem to be using ATM. Played on a more reasonably populated board but my opponent was using a big blob of Horrors to shield his Thousand Sons and Daemon characters as they advanced, backed up by a couple Rhinos with Berzerkers so terrain was mostly inconsequential, except my Immortals didn't have anywhere to get cover against his Horrors.

I threw all my melee units forward turn 1 in response to his advance, thinking I'd blow through his horror blob with my shooting and then charge the characters. I failed to blow through the Horrors, was forced to charge the Horrors with my melee units. Then all my melee units got obliterated in his next turn. I managed to kill a Tzeentch Daemon Prince with 3 Lychguard with the Counter Attack Stratagem and my Destroyers Deep Striked and killed a bunch of things. I lost 19/32 on ITC objectives after my opponent wiped me. I just didn't have the firepower to deal with a big blob of Horrors and the objectives favoured a more offensive force.

I'd change my list so everything is Maynarkh (Nephrekh) and replace the gauss Immortals with Tesla Immortals so I'm more prepared for unarmoured foes, I was just really tired of those -1/-2 to hit from my previous opponent.


The one thing I've learned is that Destroyers and Berzerkers are good. Who knew? I'm going to mess around a bit more with Kutlakh to see if Novokh works better.

I'm in two minds about playing on more populated boards, my problem is that my secondary play group doesn't have much LOS-blocking terrain and instead uses area terrain that grants cover. In one you want melee and short ranged units and AP isn't as important, in the other you want more long-ranged AP firepower. Melee units don't really get a fair chance on the latter set-up, but I'm forced to play on these boards sometimes so it feels very weird to play on boards with 10+ big LOS-blocking terrain pieces when I play with 2-6 in the latter group. The latter group also has access to fewer armies so I can build lists accordingly, but in the former group I'm very much rolling the dice to find out what I'm playing.

Those were my thoughts on my games with the 8th edition Necron codex, not so good compared to my index adventures which startes with a similar winning streak, but I feel that's mostly because I'm playing against players who haven't taken a break, the Necron codex was really discouraging because it failed to rectify Reanimation Protocols in some way and brought only terribly mediocre dynasty protocols and the Monolith and Night Scythe Stratagems were made useless by the beta rules. But I'm back to playing again and things aren't so bad, at least we have Destroyers and I still haven't experimented with the new Tesseract Vault or Transcendent C'tan so I have some good stuff to look forward to.