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 Marmatag wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There are some really high quality plastic female heads you can buy. A friend of mine runs SOB and he has his army with marine bodies, but with female heads. Those are his plastic sisters, and they look great.

But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most. Also, none of his models are plus size.

I think it's cool sisters of battle are getting plastic. I'm a little disappointed in the community reaction and comments like: "PLEASE NO BOOB PLATE," I mean, if you want gender-fluid models you already have them. Why would you need plastic sisters?

I think it's because most of us that like boob plate don't want to post about it for fear of derailing entire topics and turning it into being attacked personally because we're some sort of underhive scum.

I'm going to argue in favor of what my girlfriend likes. She wants her models to be hot, so we've branched into third party miniatures. We might look at the Daughters of Khaine, they're a good example of what she's looking for in a general sense.

My wife is the same. So are her friends that have seen my models. One of them was looking at my stuff and asked if I had any "beautiful" or "pretty" models.

From my experience women like feminine models, not men with breasts.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There are some really high quality plastic female heads you can buy. A friend of mine runs SOB and he has his army with marine bodies, but with female heads. Those are his plastic sisters, and they look great.

But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most. Also, none of his models are plus size.

I think it's cool sisters of battle are getting plastic. I'm a little disappointed in the community reaction and comments like: "PLEASE NO BOOB PLATE," I mean, if you want gender-fluid models you already have them. Why would you need plastic sisters?

I think it's because most of us that like boob plate don't want to post about it for fear of derailing entire topics and turning it into being attacked personally because we're some sort of underhive scum.

I'm going to argue in favor of what my girlfriend likes. She wants her models to be hot, so we've branched into third party miniatures. We might look at the Daughters of Khaine, they're a good example of what she's looking for in a general sense.

My wife is the same. So are her friends that have seen my models. One of them was looking at my stuff and asked if I had any "beautiful" or "pretty" models.

From my experience women like feminine models, not men with breasts.

Agreed. I bought the Forge World Keeper of Secrets recently and my fiance offered to paint her she loved her so much compared to my "other" models...

 JNAProductions wrote:
On Boob Plate-which I have no idea how relevant it is, but hey, was in the last post-I'm of the opinion that IN GENERAL it's fething stupid, but for SoB it makes sense.

The whole POINT of SoB is that they're ladies, so armor that emphasizes that makes sense. Plus, the Imperium (outside of the guard) has a big form over function thing going on.

So boobplate on female guardsmen? Stupid.
Boobplate on SoB? Eh, whatever. I'm cool with it.

I've thought about this for a while, and the above sums up my thoughts on Sororitas boob-plate. There are examples of the design crossing over into self parody (Canoness thingy's high heels, the boob-spikes on the generic Canoness) but on the whole iit's quite subtle and not particularly sexualised, which is fine by me.

Asmodios wrote:I never get the arguments on here for female models.

Its always starts as we need more female representation.
Then someone points out something like SOB
Then they start to complain that SOB models are objectified with boob plates
Then someone points out that you can simply do a head swap on most miniatures (IG, generic SM ect) and get exactly what they are looking for
Then they say that the head swap isn't enough because they need obviously female models..... aka boob plates

This is pretty tortured logic. You're not syncretising a strawman from the scattered fragments of internet whiners and trying to pass it off as things people actually believe,are you?

 Marmatag wrote:
But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most.

You realise the histrionic, attention-starved extremists who'd say this stuff are not representative of the entire feminist sphere?

Also, none of his models are plus size.

Anyone who complains about a lack of plus-sized models is a moron. I like to point such people to the Nurgle section of GW's website, where they can find many examples of plus-sized representation.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There are some really high quality plastic female heads you can buy. A friend of mine runs SOB and he has his army with marine bodies, but with female heads. Those are his plastic sisters, and they look great.

But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most. Also, none of his models are plus size.

I think it's cool sisters of battle are getting plastic. I'm a little disappointed in the community reaction and comments like: "PLEASE NO BOOB PLATE," I mean, if you want gender-fluid models you already have them. Why would you need plastic sisters?

I think it's because most of us that like boob plate don't want to post about it for fear of derailing entire topics and turning it into being attacked personally because we're some sort of underhive scum.

I'm going to argue in favor of what my girlfriend likes. She wants her models to be hot, so we've branched into third party miniatures. We might look at the Daughters of Khaine, they're a good example of what she's looking for in a general sense.

My wife is the same. So are her friends that have seen my models. One of them was looking at my stuff and asked if I had any "beautiful" or "pretty" models.

From my experience women like feminine models, not men with breasts.

Agreed. I bought the Forge World Keeper of Secrets recently and my fiance offered to paint her she loved her so much compared to my "other" models...

Ha. When I got the Mierce Totally Not A Keeper Of Seekers mine did the same.

Somehow I missed a page of comments.

 Sim-Life wrote:
My wife is the same. So are her friends that have seen my models. One of them was looking at my stuff and asked if I had any "beautiful" or "pretty" models.

From my experience women like feminine models, not men with breasts.

My wife likes the Tyranids.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
My wife is the same. So are her friends that have seen my models. One of them was looking at my stuff and asked if I had any "beautiful" or "pretty" models.

From my experience women like feminine models, not men with breasts.

My wife likes the Tyranids.

I meant in the context of female models.
Saying that women do tend to like tyranids for some reason.

 BBAP wrote:

You realise the histrionic, attention-starved extremists who'd say this stuff are not representative of the entire feminist sphere?

Also, none of his models are plus size.

Anyone who complains about a lack of plus-sized models is a moron. I like to point such people to the Nurgle section of GW's website, where they can find many examples of plus-sized representation.

I think you're pretty out of touch with this community. No offense. Although it's a YMMV kind of situation. I live in one of the most liberal areas on the planet, so my definition of feminism might be entirely different from yours.

In any case, the question becomes who are you targeting with an all-female line of miniatures? As has been demonstrated in the thread, the people who end up crying the loudest don't necessarily represent the satisfied majority.

I just want to see a more ornate version of this armor and with a bob-cut.

I loved the book and Shira Lucina Calpurnia is all business, like her, sisters can be done well.

 BBAP wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
On Boob Plate-which I have no idea how relevant it is, but hey, was in the last post-I'm of the opinion that IN GENERAL it's fething stupid, but for SoB it makes sense.

The whole POINT of SoB is that they're ladies, so armor that emphasizes that makes sense. Plus, the Imperium (outside of the guard) has a big form over function thing going on.

So boobplate on female guardsmen? Stupid.
Boobplate on SoB? Eh, whatever. I'm cool with it.

I've thought about this for a while, and the above sums up my thoughts on Sororitas boob-plate. There are examples of the design crossing over into self parody (Canoness thingy's high heels, the boob-spikes on the generic Canoness) but on the whole iit's quite subtle and not particularly sexualised, which is fine by me.

Asmodios wrote:I never get the arguments on here for female models.

Its always starts as we need more female representation.
Then someone points out something like SOB
Then they start to complain that SOB models are objectified with boob plates
Then someone points out that you can simply do a head swap on most miniatures (IG, generic SM ect) and get exactly what they are looking for
Then they say that the head swap isn't enough because they need obviously female models..... aka boob plates

This is pretty tortured logic. You're not syncretising a strawman from the scattered fragments of internet whiners and trying to pass it off as things people actually believe,are you?

 Marmatag wrote:
But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most.

You realise the histrionic, attention-starved extremists who'd say this stuff are not representative of the entire feminist sphere?

Also, none of his models are plus size.

Anyone who complains about a lack of plus-sized models is a moron. I like to point such people to the Nurgle section of GW's website, where they can find many examples of plus-sized representation.

You never read any of the feminist 40k threads, did you? That was the circular argument that would end up in every one of them. Now I don't believe this is how the majority of gamers feel but this is always the circular logic that happens when "we need female x model" pops up

I would love that... for a Arbiters force! Let SoB be SoB.

 Talizvar wrote:
I just want to see a more ornate version of this armor and with a bob-cut.

Spoiler:

I loved the book and Shira Lucina Calpurnia is all business, like her, sisters can be done well.

For those who don't know what armor without boob-plate that still is distinctly feminine looks like, click that spoiler tag. As far as this tired debate goes, though, I don't think you'll need to worry too much about the design changing. I would be shocked if the full army didn't match the style of Celestine and the Geminae.

 EnTyme wrote:
I would be shocked if the full army didn't match the style of Celestine and the Geminae.

Yes, the gemini managed it quite well. They are near enough the same size as the old models and look like they belong in the same army while also bringing in new elements like the improved jump pack.

Yeah and the boobplate on them is fine. History armor nerds nerds will say it offers more danger than protection but nothing too sexual about it.

6

 Marmatag wrote:
I think you're pretty out of touch with this community. No offense.

I'm not offended by this, just confused. Are you suggesting the community holds up corner-case extremists as representative of ideologies they find distasteful?

I live in one of the most liberal areas on the planet

What does this even mean? What do you mean by "liberal"? Why would your definition of feminism differ from mine? I live in one of the wettest places on the planet, so my definition of agriculture may be different to yours.

No offence.

In any case, the question becomes who are you targeting with an all-female line of miniatures?

And the answer is always the same; you're targeting as wide a base as possible, because making your product distasteful to certain demographics is not the way to grow your consumer base.

IMHO Sororitas pattern boob plate doesn't do that. It's not an overtly sexualised thing; in fact it's barely sexualised at all, and I can't really understand the objections to it. Perhaps it will turn off a few hardcore nutjobs but who gives a gak about them? Certainly not me. I'm sure GW will be able to turn a profit by ignoring them too.

Asmodios wrote:
You never read any of the feminist 40k threads, did you?

No I didn't, but everything about the phrase "feminist 40k thread" irritates my bowels.

That was the circular argument that would end up in every one of them. Now I don't believe this is how the majority of gamers feel but this is always the circular logic that happens when "we need female x model" pops up

I doubt it's how a majority of feminists feel, let alone gamers. The people who generally engage in such circular horse-gak are Ayn Rand individualist "feminists" who think yelling "YOU'RE A WHITE MALE!!" at someone in a shrill nasal voice is an acceptable substitute for logical argumentation. Their "feminism" is probably the only thing remotely interesting about them, and as such they will piss it all over every surface they can, wether it makes sense or not. They are the unaccomplished, unremarkable spawn of a misbegotten age, where everyone is angry and nobody really knows why, and you should ignore them.

tl;dr - There are feminist arguments for boob plate, and against it. The people you've been arguing with are not really feminists; they are cancer.

Sisters threads never change, which is why I'm enjoying the read with my popcorn.

It's more amusing that we've gotten into the feminism "discussion", so I think it's not long before this branched over to femarines, right?

Carry on! I can make more popcorn!

In an attempt to actually get this thread back on track... we already have pictures of how SoB look, to deviate from that is kind of a slap in any SoB players faces.

I am surrounded by people who take feminism to what you would consider an extreme on a daily basis. It's a part of the fabric of reality here on a fundamental level. What you call extremists i call average behavior. This is why i said YMMV, which means "your mileage may vary." I am acknowledging that this is anecdotal, but also pointing out that it's an anecdote based on an area of the world where you'll see significantly more feminists per person.

I won't lecture people in India on living with Tigers because i visited the zoo, despite the fact that i can recite facts about Tigers, their behaviors, etc, that i have learned by reading published papers / research.

And you're kidding yourselves if companies don't kowtow to their vocal minority. Consider Blizzard and Overwatch, with the Tracer over-the-shoulder pose.

 Talizvar wrote:
I just want to see a more ornate version of this armor and with a bob-cut.

Spoiler:

I loved the book and Shira Lucina Calpurnia is all business, like her, sisters can be done well.

Hot damn, I'm gay

 Marmatag wrote:
You are confusing "my argument" with "the argument that you fabricated, and then attacked."

Your post said exactly that. If you mistyped, that's your fault.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
100% Wrong. The Eccesiarch is *exactly* the same as Chaos, and Repentia are merely Imperial Daemonettes for all intents and purposes.

Of course not. The Ecclesiarch is a human being with no special powers. The Ecclesiarchy is a bureaucratic organization. Repentia are ordinary humans driven to insane feats of faith. None of these are equivalent to Chaos (an entity for whom "organization" is almost a misnomer, and is not bureaucratic at all, and focuses entirely on the special powers of the top four members) or Daemonettes.(living flakes of Slaanesh who desire nothing more than to create excessive experiences in others through the interplay of sex and violence).

I never once said "tits out" so i have no clue what you're talking about.

Or do you mean boob plate = tits out?

Could you just explicitly say your point, it's possible we don't even disagree.

 Marmatag wrote:
Or do you mean boob plate = tits out?

Given the comparison I made between having a boob-plate and having a codpiece with an enormous dong sticking out, it's pretty clear that's the hyperbole I was going for.

Like I said, I don't actually have a problem with the more toned down versions of the Sororitas Power Armor's chestplate as shown by the Celestine and Geminae models. I just find the notion that you can't tell they're feminine without boob-plates to be ridiculous. Yes, even for something as small as 40k miniatures.

Ok. I consider Celestine and her Superia to have "boob plate," so that's our disconnect.

Marmatag wrote:I won't lecture people in India on living with Tigers because i visited the zoo, despite the fact that i can recite facts about Tigers, their behaviors, etc, that i have learned by reading published papers / research

... but you're perfectly okay acting as though your experiences with extremist fruitcakes are universal, despite the fact they're only really relevant to your little corner of the world.

The people you deal with are arseholes. They might be feminists too, but mostly they're arseholes. The fact you feel constricted by that is neither here nor there. Not all feminists are arseholes - and vice versa - hence it's incorrect to pretend such is the case. It's also incorrect to pretend the corner-case nutjobs are representative of ideologies you find distasteful.

And you're kidding yourselves if companies don't kowtow to their vocal minority. Consider Blizzard and Overwatch, with the Tracer over-the-shoulder pose.

One, their vocal minority is far, far larger than GW's. Two, Tracer's butt-pose was overtly sexualised, which is the kind of thing "concerned parents" don't like to see - and since they're the ones who are paying for your games, it doesn't pay to antagonise them. Notice they didn't remove any of the subtly sexualised stuff that Tumblr feths wanted rid of? Widowmaker's still pirhouetting around in saran wrap, Mercy still isn't wearing clothes in her alt skins, all the female characters are immaculately groomed and hot at all times, Tracer is still gay, etc etc.

Conclusion: Companies kowtow to their vocal minorities when it pays them to do so, and only to the extent that it pays them to do so. If GW changes Sororitas boob plate it won't be because of "feminist" ranters.

For the record, Tracer's butt pose wasn't changed because it was "overtly sexual", it was changed because it was contrary to Tracer's personality. It was basically a Widowmaker pose, and if you weren't trying to make a martyr out of Tracer's ass then you would know that the pose they replaced it with also showed off her butt in a more goofy, flirty way.

 Marmatag wrote:
Ok. I consider Celestine and her Superia to have "boob plate," so that's our disconnect.

I never said they didn't. I said it was toned down from previous miniatures.

Compare:


3rd (I think?) edition Canoness miniature, with utterly enormous boob-cups that are detailed for nipple emphasis, each boob-cup nearly as big as her head, which is already kinda oversized to begin with.


Canoness Veridyan miniature, with bizarre skull-boobs intent on directing the eyes at her boobs over any other part of her body. They actually wouldn't be so bad were it not for the skull design.


Celestine, the Living Saint miniature, whose boob-cup is far less obtrusive and toned down in comparison. It looks less like a "hey guys look boobies hehe" and more a stylistic choice in the power armor.

I specifically said your mileage may vary. If i was arguing what you're suggesting i am, then i wouldn't have said that, right? Anyway, if you want to shoot a PM to me explaining how horrible i am, i would be happy to continue the discussion there.

 BBAP wrote:
Not all feminists

I enjoyed this piece specifically.

Asmodios wrote:

You never read any of the feminist 40k threads, did you? That was the circular argument that would end up in every one of them. Now I don't believe this is how the majority of gamers feel but this is always the circular logic that happens when "we need female x model" pops up

Usually those threads get derailed by entitled man babies crying about 'SJWs' ruining Star Wars by their evil conspiracy to force Disney to give a girl a lightsabre way before that.

 Melissia wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Ok. I consider Celestine and her Superia to have "boob plate," so that's our disconnect.

I never said they didn't. I said it was toned down from previous miniatures.

Compare:

Spoiler:

3rd (I think?) edition Canoness miniature, with utterly enormous boob-cups that are detailed for nipple emphasis, each boob-cup nearly as big as her head, which is already kinda oversized to begin with.

Spoiler:

Canoness Veridyan miniature, with bizarre skull-boobs intent on directing the eyes at her boobs over any other part of her body.

Spoiler:

Celestine, the Living Saint miniature, whose boob-cup is far less obtrusive and toned down in comparison. It looks less like a "hey guys look boobies hehe" and more a stylistic choice in the power armor.

I'll be honest i don't see a significant difference in any of those. The skull boobs are actually super cool, I wouldn't consider that the sexual portion of that miniature. You could make a case for the pose, or the shoes, but again, that seems incredibly nit picky to me.

Maybe this explains why we haven't seen a significant effort to develop slaanesh lines.

 Marmatag wrote:
I'll be honest i don't see a significant difference in any of those.

That's a personal failing, then, because the three are each VERY different from each other in their design features (not just size, but detailing and prominence on the miniature). Perhaps you could use some glasses.

 Marmatag wrote:
I wouldn't consider that the sexual portion of that miniature.

I don't believe you.