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 DaveC wrote:

 VikingChild wrote:


I upped my initial pledge from 64euro to 120euro, kinda wish i had just gone for the early bird from the start but anyway i think i've worked out correctly that i can possibly get 7 boxes for my money as opposed to the early bird deal of 8 for that same amount pledged... Plus a couple of free frames thrown in so i think its all still pretty good value

But really i'm not that bothered with the freebies or what i've missed out on i just want to see it succeed!

£20k still needed with 20 days to go, lets hope so...

Has anyone else noticed on the armoured undead warriors sprue there's a distinct 3rd style of armour? Breastplate and chainmail skirt; could this be potentially another human faction in the future? Or the Elves???

There are still 588 Early Birds left just pick that level it's not restricted - mange your pledge to change level might as well get all the benefits while it's still available.

DaveC thanks man, yeah i've done just that, I didn't think you were able to switch pledge levels but it looks like you can, hurrah!

The pledge and reward levels don't really seem to result in much reward for handing your money over a year early, ignoring the potential risk that it never delivers at all. I want to want it but despite the nice sculpts I'm going to sit on the sideline for now.

It is starting to look like 'waiting for retail' might be the best way if you're not completely convinced by what's on offer here.

I kind of like it all, but not sure if I like it enough to commit here, a lot, this far in advance, especially with other attractive prospects looming large as well.

I’m a sucker for upgrade bits so if they offer the carved resin shields I will get them.

My internet skills failed me while skim reading as much as I could...

Has there been any mention of the races/factions in the rulebook?
Obviously there's the Northmen and Undead, but another human faction and orcs are mentioned in the stretch goals.

Will there be lots of races all in the main rulebook or is this going to be a 'buy the army book' kind of game if the new models are released?

Dwarf preview - continuing with the inclusion of female variants



If the campaign funds then these will be worked on during 2019 if it doesn’t then resources will go back to releasing the Northerners and Living Dead. So it looks like they’ll press on whether funded or not but it will take a lot longer to release everything.

@Gimgamgoo Alpha rules should be out this week and it looks like they plan to cover later races as well (Orcs, Dwarfs, Elves, “Southern” Humans)

Fireforge GamesCreator
about 18 hours ago
on the alpha we will show next week, you will be able to see the new factions and their units listed. Updates to the rules and to the factions (for example new units) will be released on our website as free pdf to download

Those are really nice dorfs.

Firearms!

Nice!!!

Have we been given a rules preview yet?

I'm getting more tempted now.

I love the design of the dwarves, the heads are a bit small though. This make them look too human IMO.

I don't think we'll have to worry about them showing up in the campaign though, unfortunately.

Or...fortunately, if you're looking for reasons to save money?

Oh man...dorfs like that would push me over the edge I think.

I am still on a fence about this. On one hand, I want to cave in and spend a 100... on their old historical boxes only, or mostly - possibly getting a single box of living peasants. On the other - while 20% discount is good, shipping may outweigh it and waiting a long time for these peasants to be ready...

New boxes are not shiny enough neither cheap enough to fill the rank-and-file for KoW and for skirmishes I really don't need more than a box or two of generic MaAs, even with command group. :( Although these dworfs... they look interesting but chances of them happening right now are so slim. Even more sad face. :(

Funding has dipped negative for the day. Hopefully they come out swinging tommorow.

I think it is a mistake to show things like the dwarves and orcs that are 100k+ euro away. The ol' "Here is something you may want, but to get it you first have to help us raise money for all these things you don't want" plea never seems very convincing for new backers, and any that do back for the orcs etc just end up pulling their pledges when funding doesn't go to the Moon.

If it keeps on it's current course it won't fund the last 4 days have been sub €1,000 there's 17 days to go and €32,000 still to fund.





It was no. 19 on the Hotlist yesterday but has dropped off when I went looking for it now.

Last 48 hour rushes are largely a thing of the past and if it's not funded by then I think lot of funds that people put in hoping for stuff that unlocks later will be withdrawn this might well happen even if it does fund.

It's hit the mid campaign doldrums but without being funded and without any way to drive more pledges/funds it's not really going anywhere.

Today's update says there will be an additional reward for backers tomorrow, I think this needs Mantic levels of mid campaign correction.

Ordinarily I'd say not putting out Alpha rules yet would hurt a campaign but only 160 backers of 845 are even getting the rules so it's not really an issue here.

They need to add quite a lot ofvalue

I was originally in at the early bird level. I was hoping that more of the stretch goals would be hit, and there would be a bunch of stuff to chose from.

It doesn't look like we're going to hit that level, and I dropped down to the 2 box pledge to try and get a couple of the peasant sets.

I think they may have been over optimistic about what stretch goals they could hit.

I'm starting to think they were over-optimistic about how little value they could offer as a Kickstarter lure. I'm also starting to think they're a little over-optimistic about the retail prices, honestly.

People shouldn't panic yet. The reason CMON has massive openings and tiny closes is because they advertise the hell out of their projects and 80%+ of their backers have backed their projects previously and receive messages/updates that include info on new releases. If you look at smaller projects or ones that lack much upfront advertising they still tend to have traditional strong endings.

Again, they sort of missed out on "what Kickstarter is for," and aren't offering the correct deals to maximize their backer support. People will whinge endlessly if you try to explain it to them, but that's just how it works, it's not a debate. They could still get through their stretch goal characters.

 Psychopomp wrote:
I'm starting to think they were over-optimistic about how little value they could offer as a Kickstarter lure. I'm also starting to think they're a little over-optimistic about the retail prices, honestly.

No, retail prices are fine. It's just not fit for Kickstarter, that's all.

Time where it was used for funding is gone. It's now a gigantic pre-order shop, mainly for boardgames using PVC monopose miniatures.

People talking about "adding more value" just don't see where's the problem here. People just don't want generic human/undead miniatures using hips, no matter the quality. They want cheap, mantic level stuff, while forgetting it also comes with gak material and low to non-existent modularity.

Too bad, it was a nice project.

To get all the bonus stuff you have to pledge for the full starter set - which is a fairly high buy in cost - whereas if a pledge of closer to £50 got you all rewards for both factions I think it would have done better. It doesn't help that whilst nice, the sculpts on both sides are fairly generic. Landsknechts vs undead, for example, might have had me throwing money at the kickstarter.

Well that's great eh, now there's a decent chance we'll miss out on the first decent plastic zombies because people now expect to be showered with freebies to a completely unsustainable degree.

Or, alternatively, yet another set of plastic zombies turns out to be economically unviable.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Or, alternatively, yet another set of plastic zombies turns out to be economically unviable.

Unfortunately, it seems to go this way. The market isn't big enough for good zombie kits - only cheap, unmodular, gak material ones.

 Sarouan wrote:

 Psychopomp wrote:
I'm starting to think they were over-optimistic about how little value they could offer as a Kickstarter lure. I'm also starting to think they're a little over-optimistic about the retail prices, honestly.

No, retail prices are fine. It's just not fit for Kickstarter, that's all.

Time where it was used for funding is gone. It's now a gigantic pre-order shop, mainly for boardgames using PVC monopose miniatures.

People talking about "adding more value" just don't see where's the problem here. People just don't want generic human/undead miniatures using hips, no matter the quality. They want cheap, mantic level stuff, while forgetting it also comes with gak material and low to non-existent modularity.

Too bad, it was a nice project.

I don't know where you get off slamming Mantic product line. Their new Warpath stuff has been pretty awesome so far. Furthermore the modularity is there as well generally speaking although they don't have that many options on the sprue itself the convertibility and kitbashing option is there.

And the plastic for those sprue is not PVC it's Hips.

I think they are likely economically viable, but neither side believes in/wants them enough to put more skin in the game. Fireforge is only willing to presell them at a discount similar to what most online retailers offer (meaning they won't even sell them to us at wholesale rates), and backers just aren't willing to loan Fireforge the money this early at that rate of return.

There are a lot of awesome miniatures I can buy right now for very similar (most even superior) dollar per mini ratios. A mini on a store shelf you can buy immediately will always be worth more than a mini you have to wait a year + to have delivered (and it may or may not even show up)!

So, is constantly posting, in various place, to declare one or another KS dead a new sport? There are some folks who appear *invested*, emotionally, in this failing, and I just don't get it. I backed it because I like the minis, and think the value is excellent - there are plenty of campaigns I don't back...and I don't spend time trying to undercut them, or cheering slow progress.

There are a number of people who pledged, I suspect a small amount, just so they could come into the comment section and leave incredibly negative, questionably factual comments about the drive - why? Why not just...leave it be?

 Yodhrin wrote:
Well that's great eh, now there's a decent chance we'll miss out on the first decent plastic zombies because people now expect to be showered with freebies to a completely unsustainable degree.

From update #7 in the KS campaign (I believe it was posted earlier in this thread)

We added a new faq to let you know better our intentions:

"I'm only interested in new factions (dwarfs, orcs, etc.) why should I participate to this kickstarter?"

If the campaign will be funded (and the new factions will not be unlocked), Fireforge will be able to release the new factions for Forgotten World (dwarfs, orcs, elves etc.) during the 2019. Otherwise in the course of 2019 our resources will be used only to release the already shown northmen and living dead.

So FireForge will make these kits regardless of the outcome of the KS so we’ll just get to buy them at retail. If the KS funds backers will get the kits at a discounted price and FireForge will use the money the successful crowdfunding saves them to produce additional kits like the dwarves and orcs in 2019. If the campaign fails we won’t see orcs, dwarves etc from FireForge until 2020 or later.

Sure, and that's the case with a lot of manufacturers. For large manufacturers, KS is often used as legitimate market research vs. genuine start-up capital (something people bray about, but is not a 'rule' of Kickstarter).

If they do 80-90% of this Kickstarter and it doesn't fund, they already know there is a decent market for the kits they've shown. You'll just get a more restrained and watered down commercial release until it establishes a market presence (if it does).

Conversely, if it only funded say 13,000...you wouldn't see this product come to retail at all. They'd realize nobody was interested.

If the current lines are produced (without KS special sauce) and sell "okay" you won't see much expansion of the other ranges either. So, the end success of the product line is still in the hands of the consumers, as it always is. I think it's safe to say if the KS doesn't succeed, etc. and sales are only middling you'd actually never see dwarves or orcs, etc.

Wirecat wrote:
I am still on a fence about this. On one hand, I want to cave in and spend a 100... on their old historical boxes only, or mostly - possibly getting a single box of living peasants. On the other - while 20% discount is good, shipping may outweigh it and waiting a long time for these peasants to be ready...

New boxes are not shiny enough neither cheap enough to fill the rank-and-file for KoW and for skirmishes I really don't need more than a box or two of generic MaAs, even with command group. :( Although these dworfs... they look interesting but chances of them happening right now are so slim. Even more sad face. :(

If you want their historicals now, rather than whenever they ship from this KS, I'd point you towards Firestorm games. 10%-off MSRP and free shipping worldwide for orders over 40 quid. I'm sure there are other places that deliver to European locations in a similar way, but I'm not that familiar with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DaveC wrote:
If it keeps on it's current course it won't fund the last 4 days have been sub €1,000 there's 17 days to go and €32,000 still to fund.
...
Ordinarily I'd say not putting out Alpha rules yet would hurt a campaign but only 160 backers of 845 are even getting the rules so it's not really an issue here.

So many companies need to learn to put their egos aside and realise that most people don't give two feths about their special snowflake rules systems that are valued way beyond realistic proportions as part of their kickstarters. This is made even harder by vocal minorities that loudly ask for bespoke rules for each game or line, and inevitable star fethers who get overly invested in campaigns because a real life games dev deigned to talk to them while in the "Asking for money" phase of a project. This type of ego/artistic inflexibility has hamstrung more than a couple of otherwise extremely talented creators and potential campaigns. Commercial art needs to find the line between artistic satisfaction and producing something that the market actually wants at a price the market is willing to pay. Every time I see a sculptor or dev talk about how their game is going to be the biggest or best in the world, I just sigh sadly for them. Artistic ambition is great, delusions of grandeur and artistic narcissism are not so useful.

In this case, I think Dave is right. A potential preview of their rules might help, and I don't think releasing something at this point will hurt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hanksingle wrote:
So, is constantly posting, in various place, to declare one or another KS dead a new sport? There are some folks who appear *invested*, emotionally, in this failing, and I just don't get it. I backed it because I like the minis, and think the value is excellent - there are plenty of campaigns I don't back...and I don't spend time trying to undercut them, or cheering slow progress.

There are a number of people who pledged, I suspect a small amount, just so they could come into the comment section and leave incredibly negative, questionably factual comments about the drive - why? Why not just...leave it be?

The comment section of the KS itself? Comments sections there have always been a human sewer, unfortunately. It's the internet, and trolls gonna troll. Why? for their cheap entertainment. I doubt they're invested emotionally in it failing in any true sense - it'd just be a serial drama that they can participate in before moving to the next one. I don't think it's anything new. Just check out the comments section of pretty much any YouTube video, ever.

Here? There are a couple of people who are emotionally invested in this campaign succeeding, and have been expressing their frustration in a manner that varies between being bitter through to mildly insulting towards those of us here who aren't all in. Here on Dakka (a place often slammed elsewhere) the tone of those of us who are less impressed by this campaign is more of a "it's a shame they're not doing more", and I haven't seen anyone here hoping that the campaign fails (though do feel to point it out if I'm incorrect there.)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
God damn Jesus J Christ. Just checked the comments after the new update. If you want to talk about "entitled", you should look at some of the pro-kickstarter guys there. Talk about needlessly angry at people for not backing the campaign due to a lack of compelling value. The levels of butthurt there are just crazy.

Holy s*** you're right on the kickstarter comments turning into a gak Fest of self entitlement.