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topaxygouroun i wrote:
Nope. You can dress it as much as you like, but in the end of the day people will be taking advantage of the limits that the game allows them to.

Again I hear this lot. In practice in PL games that hasn't happened here.

STOP SPREADING THEORETICAL COMPLAINTS! If you can't back claim with IN PRACTICE REAL GAMES that have happened then it's 100% useless comment.

"PL should be scrapped because people abuse it"

Do they? If not in practice it has valid purpose.

If you can't back it up with actual evidence rather than theoretical speculation it's useless.

Oh and who here has said anything about PL being used for tournaments? Not me. Though then again that doesn't automatically mean abuse. PL in league has worked well in my experience.

It's 2 different systems. both have their usages. Neither is useless. Both are 100% incapable of producing anything remotely balanced.

Main difference between PL and points = summoning and suddenly those bring back units on a 4+ for no extra cost are worthwhile. I don't play PL, but I've played 40k enough to know that unfettered summoning really unbalances things.

 ruminator wrote:
Main difference between PL and points = summoning and suddenly those bring back units on a 4+ for no extra cost are worthwhile. I don't play PL, but I've played 40k enough to know that unfettered summoning really unbalances things.

Those are the open play and narrative rules, I've played matched games with PL and had no issues as it sets aside those caveats.

If I went to a tournament and it was PL I would pile on every upgrade on the assumption my opponent will do the same.

There's zero reason not to take the best option under PL.

I know casual at any cost types really want to boast about how they use PL and it's fine but no ones buying it.

hobojebus wrote:
There's zero reason not to take the best option under PL.

There are several reasons. None of them relate to winning at all costs, however.

It's rather sad to assume everyone else is out to min/max the system to the very limit, and that says far more about you than the game system.

hobojebus wrote:
If I went to a tournament and it was PL

Stop right there because PL isn't meant for tournaments. It's for narrative ,fun, beer and pretzels games. NOt min-maxed optimized games. If you worry about that just use matched play points.

hobojebus wrote:
I know casual at any cost types really want to boast about how they use PL and it's fine but no ones buying it.

Yes, because clearly they're all fething liars... Why give other people the benefit of doubt when you can reduce them to memes and stupid jokes to prolong another of the stupid tribal wars tearing through this community.

Everyone who's just having a fun time with the game using PL are part of some secret cabal with an agenda of misrepresenting the usefulness of power level.

And hobojebus is part of the conspiracy, to make criticism of PL look ridiculous by calling the people who have it work for them liars.

Now you are all deceived and you'll try PL and your games will implode and the cabal will laugh and rejoice, feeding off your misery!

Or, you know, people might just be honest about what they are experiencing in their games and it'll all be fine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The March FAQ probably won't have much to do with the power level tangent, I guess. So I'll stop posting about it. Turns out there's an active thread that is more on topic:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/754277.page

Oooh we homs and false equivalence fallacies, keep going my bingo cards almost full!

tneva82 wrote:

topaxygouroun i wrote:
Nope. You can dress it as much as you like, but in the end of the day people will be taking advantage of the limits that the game allows them to.

Again I hear this lot. In practice in PL games that hasn't happened here.

STOP SPREADING THEORETICAL COMPLAINTS! If you can't back claim with IN PRACTICE REAL GAMES that have happened then it's 100% useless comment.

"PL should be scrapped because people abuse it"

Do they? If not in practice it has valid purpose.

If you can't back it up with actual evidence rather than theoretical speculation it's useless.

Oh and who here has said anything about PL being used for tournaments? Not me. Though then again that doesn't automatically mean abuse. PL in league has worked well in my experience.

It's 2 different systems. both have their usages. Neither is useless. Both are 100% incapable of producing anything remotely balanced.

If you look back I said that we DID have these issues with PL. Not theoretical, it actually occurred. We instituted a WYSIWYG rule to try to stop it but it didn't fix it really. I had to quit because I couldn't keep up with the cost to make all my models WYSIWYG and not get destroyed by nearly everyone. Eventually we all agreed to points to stop the nonsense.

So what you're saying is PL works if the players want it to work. If they just want to maximize their advantages, you have to go to points to have a more precise balance.

Naturally, points don't fix everything since some units/options are not priced correctly there either.

Did PL for a tournament here. Was won by a green tide because it turns out lascsnnons aren’t always the best option.

 AduroT wrote:
Did PL for a tournament here. Was won by a green tide because it turns out lascsnnons aren’t always the best option.

If only they remembered Frag Cannons exist you wouldn't be saying that...

NEWS

Apparently from the FAQ playtester group. Take with a big grain of salt.

It's not necessarily from that group; it was posted on 4chan earlier and is likely a hoax.

Also the idea that "soup" would be killed in this manner is laughable. It would render some factions unplayable.

Zero reason to believe that's real. You or I could write that and it would look exactly the same. Hell, that could just be a blurb of two friends discussing their guesses.

No Assassins in Matched would be sad.

GW: *Puts out the Adeptus Custodes Codex that has <Imperium> based buffs*

Also GW: *Bans all of that two months after*

I don't think nu-GW is capable of that. (But oh boy if they are!)

My already defunct all Biker SM army would be illegal.

Fake news!

Good be a matched play only rule?

Taking away the +3 CP for Battle Forged if the common keyword is Chaos or Imperium would satisfy that rumor without invalidating any army lists.

Nope, this is fake.

... am I a bad person for hoping its real, just so I could see the tournament scene collectively lose their s**t? <.<

Seriously though... I wouldnt be surprised if the implemented *some* sort of limitation on soup. Like no more than one ally, or point requirements (ie, 25% max for allies). Probably not an outright ban though, unless some armies got an exemption, like Inquisition, Assassins, etc.

I mean, top level tournament players won't care. They'll just move on to the next egregiously unbalanced and overpowered flavour, just like they always have and always will continue to do.

It'll definitely end up hurting lower level players who mostly just stick around for local tournaments and the like. Basically, your average community member who considers their army a long term investment. Depending on what side of things they fall on, they could very well end up mightily screwed, especially if their army becomes unplayable.

This would invalidate any army that runs with a non-Battalion. I am calling absolute bs. It would severely wreck a ton of armies. It would also make Imperial Knights unusable as a Faction. Literally 0% chance of being real.

Reminds me of the old force org chart, back when there was alot less on the table


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think it could work, but its always the few that spoil it for the many ,and if some lists have to diversive then so be it

I'm assuming that's fake because it would invalidate inquisition and assassins. And probably others I can't think of.

Zustiur wrote:
I'm assuming that's fake because it would invalidate inquisition and assassins. And probably others I can't think of.

Also a direct attack on Ad-Mech (and Questor Mechanicus) and CSM/Daemons.

Looks mighty suspicious. Cap of 3 of any non Troops unit? Yeaaaaah. No. Not believing that. It would invalidate their whole 'new detachment type' angle that they've pushed since the word go.

It certainly would not help sales of their new mini-knight...

stormboy wrote:
It certainly would not help sales of their new mini-knight...

You can field them in units of 1-3, so you could still field 9 Armigers and most likely 9 Helligers in a single army with this restriction.