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Heavy disintegrator cannon builds help with the custodes bike match up. A craftworld detachment for access to doom helps even more. It's a big game of keep away as you try keep them at range and out of combat. Tho I play full mech which changes things.
Quixeemoto wrote: Parasite's kiss seems ok but I usually give my archon the Djin blade. If you really wanted to give him a pistol the Soul-seeker might be better, but I still would rather the blade. Blade with eternal hatred for a warlord trait makes him pretty brutal in combat even against things with high toughness (like custodes jetbikes).
Yeah, the Djin Blade is good, it just doesn't fit in with the theme of my Archons.
I agree that the Soul Seeker is probably better, but it's only available to Poison Tongue, which I won't always be using.
Regarding the list you posted, how did you find the Blasters on your Reavers? Also, do you think the Splinter Cannons on the Warrior squads were worth it?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
RedGriefer wrote: Does anyone have experience using a tantalus of any kind in games yet? What faction of drukhari was it and how did it perform?
No experience with one, but I would take it as either Strife or Dark Creed. Strife gets you the double shoot stratagem, and Creed gets you the sniper stratagem.
Regarding the list you posted, how did you find the Blasters on your Reavers? Also, do you think the Splinter Cannons on the Warrior squads were worth it?
I like the blasters on the reavers, usually you are shooting them at -1 to hit since they advance turn 1 but it adds to them being something your opponent has to deal with quickly. Most games all the reavers are dead by turn 2 but thats what their job is. If they are left alive you have extra blasters to put wherever you want. If anything I am not sold on the grav-talons, a 4+ to do 1 mortal wound seems rather lackluster.
As for splinter cannons, absolutely worth it in raiders with splinter racks and kabal of the flayed skull. Even on foot you probably still take them, since now they only cost 10 pts so its not like you can take 2 warriors to make up the shots for the same points. The warriors in raiders consistently do the best in every game I play. I played lists with only 30 warriors and its honestly not as good imo. I start every list now with 40 warriors in raiders. Also giving them 2 blasters is such a big boon to DE, each of those warrior units is only 107 pts! For 20 splinter shoots, 2 blasters, and a phantasm grenade launcher for using torment grenade and giving -1 leadership buffs (which matter more than you might think!). Then in the raider they reroll 1's on the splinter weapons, ignore cover and get extra hits on 6's to hit.
I will say though that you have to really play the ranges with the raiders though, usually i find it is best to either keep myself exactly 12" away or if i can avoid rapid fires in return I'll even opt to shoot single shots with the splinter weapons (another benefit of the splinter cannon is that it has 36" range, meaning you can sit at 18" and shoot the blasters and 14 splinter shots)
I like the blasters on the reavers, usually you are shooting them at -1 to hit since they advance turn 1 but it adds to them being something your opponent has to deal with quickly. Most games all the reavers are dead by turn 2 but thats what their job is. If they are left alive you have extra blasters to put wherever you want. If anything I am not sold on the grav-talons, a 4+ to do 1 mortal wound seems rather lackluster.
Yeah, I can't say I've been all that impressed by Grav Talons. I think I'll be moving it to the 'something to buy if I have spare points' category in future.
As for splinter cannons, absolutely worth it in raiders with splinter racks and kabal of the flayed skull. Even on foot you probably still take them, since now they only cost 10 pts so its not like you can take 2 warriors to make up the shots for the same points.
Well, if you include the cost of the Warrior carrying it, that's 16pts. So for just 2pts more you can have the same number of shots plus 2 extra wounds.
I know there's limited transport space, but you can still put those points towards a different squad, for example.
Also, are you aware that Splinter Racks don't actually work on Splinter Cannons?
Quixeemoto wrote: The warriors in raiders consistently do the best in every game I play. I played lists with only 30 warriors and its honestly not as good imo. I start every list now with 40 warriors in raiders. Also giving them 2 blasters is such a big boon to DE, each of those warrior units is only 107 pts! For 20 splinter shoots, 2 blasters, and a phantasm grenade launcher for using torment grenade and giving -1 leadership buffs (which matter more than you might think!). Then in the raider they reroll 1's on the splinter weapons, ignore cover and get extra hits on 6's to hit.
Yeah, I'd always take Blasters on them. Interesting to hear that the PGL is useful as well. I might have to start using those.
I will say though that you have to really play the ranges with the raiders though, usually i find it is best to either keep myself exactly 12" away or if i can avoid rapid fires in return I'll even opt to shoot single shots with the splinter weapons (another benefit of the splinter cannon is that it has 36" range, meaning you can sit at 18" and shoot the blasters and 14 splinter shots)
Okay, I'll try to bear that in mind. Thanks.
Oh, one other thing - since you're using Flayed Skull, do you use the Obsidian Veil at all?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
the way I run the warriors I always put them in transports so its basically "I have 40 warriors so 4 of them should have splinter cannons because im not going to have more". Huh, thats weird that they don't work on the splinter cannons but you are right.
I have been very tempted by the obsidian veil but only because every game I have played I have failed the shadowfield on the first roll! Also because i use the Djin blade i tend to ignore the veil.
So if you are running 3 raiders with kabalite warriors in them and 3 ravagers, then flayed skull seems like the most popular choice.
But if you arent running any ravagers, and are just running 3 raiders with warriors and a couple archons in a venom, would it be better or worse to take Poisoned Tongue?
Rerolling 1s to hit, or rerolling 1s to wound?
Other things to consider:
Soul-Seeker is a benefit to Poisoned Tongue
Destroyed Raiders, no flayed skull benefit, but warriors would still get Poisoned Tongue benefit.
The weapons on the raider rerolling 1s is a benefit to Flayed skull, but poisoned tongue doesnt do anything there.
Is one a clear winner in this situation or do you think it is pretty situational with which Obsession is better? Again the scenario is only for a detachment of 3 raiders, 30 warriors, and a couple archons in a venom.
Icculus wrote: So if you are running 3 raiders with kabalite warriors in them and 3 ravagers, then flayed skull seems like the most popular choice.
Just a point, but if you're running 3 Ravagers then the most popular choice seems to be to run them as a Spearhead with a Black Heart Archon with the Writ. This gives them a 6+++ save, let's them reroll 1s to wound, and gives you access to the Labyrinthine Cunning warlord trait and Agents of Vect stratagem.
But if you arent running any ravagers, and are just running 3 raiders with warriors and a couple archons in a venom, would it be better or worse to take Poisoned Tongue?
Rerolling 1s to hit, or rerolling 1s to wound?
Other things to consider:
Soul-Seeker is a benefit to Poisoned Tongue
Destroyed Raiders, no flayed skull benefit, but warriors would still get Poisoned Tongue benefit.
The weapons on the raider rerolling 1s is a benefit to Flayed skull, but poisoned tongue doesnt do anything there.
Is one a clear winner in this situation or do you think it is pretty situational with which Obsession is better? Again the scenario is only for a detachment of 3 raiders, 30 warriors, and a couple archons in a venom.
Well, rerolling 1s to hit and rerolling 1s to wound are mathematically identical. The important differences are:
- Rerolling 1s to hit synergises with Splinter Racks.
- Rerolling 1s to wound synergises with the Archon's aura.
- Rerolling 1s to wound synergises with the Lhamaean's Venom Blade.
- You get the rerolls to-wound in melee.
- You get the rerolls to-wound when disembarked.
- Of course, Flayed Skull also gives you Ignores Cover and +3" of movement when embarked. Ignores cover in particular is very useful for dealing with stuff like marines in cover, which will otherwise shrug off a lot of splinter fire.
- In terms of the Relics, I'd probably rank Soul Seeker higher. It has the longest range of the non-index weapons, and the ability to snipe characters without even needing LoS is a very interesting ability. The only disappointing aspect is that it doesn't synergise with the actual Poison Tongue ability, because apparently GW just really hates DE (literally no other race has this 'artefacts don't benefit from anything' rule). Anyway, Obsidian Veil is good for a defensive Archon, and could be useful with Soul Thirst to regain wounds.
- PT warlord trait is awful (though the Archon has 3 other great ones to pick from anyway), so FS wins that one.
- The PT stratagem is probably the better of the two.
I think it's quite tricky, to be honest. Flayed Skull is vastly better when you're actually embarked, but gives you nothing when you disembark (or when your transport is destroyed). Overall, I think the FS army-bonus is stronger, but Poison Tongue has better tricks with its relic and stratagem.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Yea flayed skull i think is better as an overall army choice. and vipoid is right that the popular choice is black heart for the ravagers to get access to vect and the reroll 1s to wound. I just personally like flayed skull better based on my own playstyle and experiences. Also it means you have to pay extra points for a third archon and you lose the detachment. I'd rather run 2 wych cult detachments.
When it comes to units not getting the benefits when they are out of the raiders, usually if more than one unit of warriors has been forced out of the raider they are about to die anyways. My strategy usually revolves around keeping the raiders alive as long as possible, every turn you can keep the warriors protected the better you will do i think
For the record, whilst I think Flayed Skull is probably a bit better overall, I still prefer Poison Tongue. I like the Soul Seeker for flavour reasons and I like having rerolls in melee and outside of transports.
Quixeemoto wrote: When it comes to units not getting the benefits when they are out of the raiders, usually if more than one unit of warriors has been forced out of the raider they are about to die anyways. My strategy usually revolves around keeping the raiders alive as long as possible, every turn you can keep the warriors protected the better you will do i think
See, my experience has actually been the opposite of this. My transports tend to die very quickly, especially the Raiders. However, once the Kabalites are disembarked, they generally just aim their guns at other, more threatening units (usually other transports).
In fact, I think every game I've played so far has involved me losing several transports early on and the Kabalites continuing on foot for several turns.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
If you play with lots of vehicles the 6++ ignore wound from the Black Heart obsession can help.
It's basically the only buff from that obsession but the Black Heart kabal also gives access to a very good trait, relic for the archon and stratagem. If you like the court and want to play aggresively, for example with some red grief units, the kabal bonus becomes useful.
I am almost done assembling my Tantalus and I can't wait to use it in my Red Grief army. 32" and charge seems amazing.
It is a beautiful model but man is it a pain to put together. I'm working on magnetizing the sail and figuring some way to base it properly. It comes with a standard flying base in the kit, what a joke.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/11 16:32:56
So my gf just got into de and she has a small collection of models and the codex (mind you shes never played a game in her life she basically rule of cooled everthing and i haven't touched de since 5th) so any tips on assembly for wargear ect kabals cults and the like would be greatly appreacaited.
alabamaheretic wrote: So my gf just got into de and she has a small collection of models and the codex (mind you shes never played a game in her life she basically rule of cooled everthing and i haven't touched de since 5th) so any tips on assembly for wargear ect kabals cults and the like would be greatly appreacaited.
So it looks like you are in need of a Succubus to really run the wych cult detachment. The only Coven unit you have is the Haemonculus. But I would go with 4 blasters on the 20 kabalite warriors. Make sure you have 4 of those warriors that could also be identified as being the Sybarite (the squad leader) in case you ever wanted to run them in squads of 5. For heavy weapons in the warriors, I would go with either splinter cannon or Dark Lance, I like the Dark Lance myself.
With the squad of hellions, I think you should always keep them in 10-strength or larger units, so I would only make one of them a Heliarch and give him either a stunclaw or agoniser.
For your next purchase I would look at getting a succubus and either another box of reavers, or a box of wyches and a raider.
I mean Hellions are definitely better now than they have been since the days of 2+Jink saves and The Baron Sathonyx.
But that being said, I don't think they are getting a lot of playtime. I would go with the stunclaw though for the chance of mortal wounds and it being consistent with the rest of the weapons.
well I don't think she'll be ready for tournys any time soon stuff and I'll be her main opponent so yea, I'd honestly rather her have a strong list so she feels like she has accomplished something instead of me rolling over her.
Stuff I have access to play against her Nightlords, unbuilt necrons (its just the 2016 starter box), mordian guard, and catachan guard.
Kelligula wrote: Has anyone had any success using Kabal of the Obsidian Rose? I'm planning on painting some Warriors in that scheme to run with my Black Heart boys.
Their best shtick in my experience seems to be the giant blob of 20 warriors dropping out of the sky, rapid firing stuff at 15" away (so you want shredders and splinter cannons to maximise the hurt there) and then using Fire and Fade to end up 7" away and over 24" from any viable threats.
Obrose also works pretty well out of venoms with the nice fact that everything they want to do is a little farther away from melee.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I like them (but then I'm lacking in Ravagers and Razorwings).
92pts for 5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters seems like a really good deal, and I generally run 2 such units in all my lists.
Blasters are more versatile, but also much more expensive (not to mention being available elsewhere). Given their inherent fragility, I'd probably stick to Haywire for raw efficiency.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
18 is base, advancement doubles it
