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VladimirHerzog wrote: Has any of you tried using a max sized kabalite blob in an Obsidian rose detachment to use the failure is not an option stratagem?
i was thinking about putting them in a webway strike to protect them T1 then drop them on an objective that is pretty far from the main battle and using the extra range from the Obsidian rose to lay down serious firepower
My only problem doing that turn 2 is no Moral protection, make it BH and drop them turn 3 means you dont need to spend more CP, but you get less poison shots if you are out of Rapid fire range and taking Shredders, you could just go 20 dudes no upgrades and fire 20 shots at 24".
I like doing that with Guardians, 20 guardians is 160pts without upgrades, but they just do it much better sadly. B.c Kabals are cheap, you could get away with it to save points, they wont deal damage like the Guardians do tho.
VladimirHerzog wrote: Has any of you tried using a max sized kabalite blob in an Obsidian rose detachment to use the failure is not an option stratagem?
i was thinking about putting them in a webway strike to protect them T1 then drop them on an objective that is pretty far from the main battle and using the extra range from the Obsidian rose to lay down serious firepower
My only problem doing that turn 2 is no Moral protection, make it BH and drop them turn 3 means you dont need to spend more CP, but you get less poison shots if you are out of Rapid fire range and taking Shredders, you could just go 20 dudes no upgrades and fire 20 shots at 24".
I like doing that with Guardians, 20 guardians is 160pts without upgrades, but they just do it much better sadly. B.c Kabals are cheap, you could get away with it to save points, they wont deal damage like the Guardians do tho.
But, you should try it out, you might like it.
my idea was to use "failure is not an option" to turn my failed morale test into a "free" shooting phase
VladimirHerzog wrote: Has any of you tried using a max sized kabalite blob in an Obsidian rose detachment to use the failure is not an option stratagem?
i was thinking about putting them in a webway strike to protect them T1 then drop them on an objective that is pretty far from the main battle and using the extra range from the Obsidian rose to lay down serious firepower
My only problem doing that turn 2 is no Moral protection, make it BH and drop them turn 3 means you dont need to spend more CP, but you get less poison shots if you are out of Rapid fire range and taking Shredders, you could just go 20 dudes no upgrades and fire 20 shots at 24".
I like doing that with Guardians, 20 guardians is 160pts without upgrades, but they just do it much better sadly. B.c Kabals are cheap, you could get away with it to save points, they wont deal damage like the Guardians do tho.
But, you should try it out, you might like it.
my idea was to use "failure is not an option" to turn my failed morale test into a "free" shooting phase
I kinda like it but at the same time you can only do that to one unit and warriors would die so fast at that range he might just wipe you out before you get to fire anything worthwhile off. Don't get me wrong i also want to DS in with 2 max squads of warriors and special and heavy weapons but i also am wondering if i can't do the special or heavy weapons job better from range in a vehicle or something. In the case of the 2 units of 12 reavers (24 total) with blasters it would cost a lot but i will take a few min. squad wych squads and 2 succubus to get a battalion out of them.
I think you have an ok strategy and it's actually fairly cheap considering. The issue is outside of Covens and maybe bikes not much we have is really that durable. Even venoms go down to a couple lucky pot shots -1 to hit and 5+ inv. save or no. The other issue with this tactic is you're waiting till turn 2 for some firepower so you might want to not dedicate all of your anti-tank or anti-infantry to this one group. It should be cheap but effective for its cost but it'll still die in a turn.
Honestly i think if i did the spam 2 units of 20 warriors (40 warriors) i'd probably take dark lances as well as blaster spam or anything really. Flayed Skull doesn't help these huge squads (since it's flying or hovering units only), obsidian rose may be ok, Poisoned tongue sounds pretty good (spammed poison) and Black Heart wouldn't really help enough in this case (turn 3 PFP is 2+ to hit in melee if i recall).
Personally i'm more curious about the spammed warrior squads in 10's or 20's in our deployment zone (killing a ton of hordes at long range may be hard for some armies) but i think a couple venoms with warriors would be nice for objective games in the case of objective secured.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/05/29 01:29:33
I kinda like it but at the same time you can only do that to one unit and warriors would die so fast at that range he might just wipe you out before you get to fire anything worthwhile off.
That's certainly possible but even in a worst-case scenario a single maxed-out warrior squad isn't a huge loss of resources. And if you deep-struck them then you'll have had at least one shooting phase with them.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Don't get me wrong i also want to DS in with 2 max squads of warriors and special and heavy weapons but i also am wondering if i can't do the special or heavy weapons job better from range in a vehicle or something.
This might just be me but I don't think I'd want to use more than one of these squads. Firstly because the morale-protection Stratagem can only affect one of them per turn, and secondly because deep striking 2 squads is much more expensive in terms of CPs.
As for weapons, I think taking 4 Blasters is reasonable - especially as Obsidian Rose. It means your opponent will have to dig his way through 16 Warriors before he can kill any of them. I wouldn't bother with Dark Lances, though. They're expensive and discourage the squad from moving.
Honestly i think if i did the spam 2 units of 20 warriors (40 warriors) i'd probably take dark lances as well as blaster spam or anything really. Flayed Skull doesn't help these huge squads (since it's flying or hovering units only), obsidian rose may be ok, Poisoned tongue sounds pretty good (spammed poison) and Black Heart wouldn't really help enough in this case (turn 3 PFP is 2+ to hit in melee if i recall).
I think the key with Ynnari is the moral-immunity Stratagem (which makes units of 20 a lot less risky). If I was using Poison Tongue or BH, I definitely wouldn't want to go above 10-man squads.
Personally i'm more curious about the spammed warrior squads in 10's or 20's in our deployment zone (killing a ton of hordes at long range may be hard for some armies) but i think a couple venoms with warriors would be nice for objective games in the case of objective secured.
See, if I really wanted to spam Warriors in my deployment zone, I'd actually go with Ynnari of all things. Put Yvraine in the middle of them and have her cast shield of Ynnead every turn - suddenly your 6pt models have a 5++/6+++.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Kabalite Warriors [8 PL, 228pts] . 13x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon (up to 1 for 10 models): Dark Lance
. Kabalite Warrior with heavy weapon (up to 1 for 10 models): Dark Lance
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts] . 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts] . 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts] . 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle
Scourges [5 PL, 92pts] . Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine
Scourges [5 PL, 92pts] . Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Haywire blaster
. Solarite: Shardcarbine
the goal is to use reavers as a distraction on turn 1, then have a big T2 deepstrike with the warriors, scourge and mandrakes.
I dont know what my opponent's going to play. i gave my succubus the blood glaive as my main relic and i'll either pick the djinn blade or the helm of spite for my archon, depending on if im against a psyker centric army
also, the warriors wont be deepstriking at the 9" mark, i'll use the extra 6" range on their weapons to deepstrike into a position that keeps them far away with decent line of sight.
i'm also ready to use "Hunt from the shadows" and "Lightning fast reflexes" on my warrior blob to keep them alive (if needed)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/29 13:06:08
Alright so i tried my kabalite bomb (?) yesterday.
was up against slaanesh demons / emperor's children (hoorah for the fluffy battle!!).
Spoiler:
his list was something like this :
Chaos demons - Slaanesh
Demon prince
Herald on chariot
20x daemonnetes (deepstrike)
noise marines x2
possesed
2x rhinos
1 land raider
i deploy my kabal in the backfield, planning on using my longer range to put distance between him and the charge. My ravagers are hidden behind a tall ruin.
i put my reavers up front with a venom filled with wyches and a succubus behind them, planning on using them to tie up a rhino and try and make him unable to disembark while i smack it down.
i have my mandrakes, my scourge and my kabalite blob in reserve.
he deploys his 2 rhinos aggressively and hides his land raider behind some ruins.
He seizes the initiative.
His T1 : he moves up the rhinos and pops smoke, his demon prince and herald move forward, he moves his land raider out of the ruins and shoots at 2 of my venoms, unable to kill them.
My T1 : my wych cult move up to the closest rhino (this was a mistake, i should have gone for the land raider to tie it up in combat). my kabal venoms stay in the backfield, making sure my blasters are in range of his vehicles. i pop the nose of my ravagers out so they have line of sight on the map.
i quickly blow up his first rhino with blasters and i clear its contents with poison weapons, only 1 noise marine survives the shooting phase. The land raider takes some blaster hits but the damage rolls are low. the last noise marine kills himself in the overwatch by supercharging his plasma pistol.
his T2 : his possesed and demon prince make it to my reavers and quickly dipatch of them, the lascannon on the landraider oneshots one of my ravagers. he disembarks some plasma space marines from the second rhino and blows up my wych cult venom.
my T2 : i send my wyches and succubus away from the possesed/demon prince ball and towards the plasma marines and the rhino accompanying them. i drop my mandrakes clsoe to the plasma marines, along with 5 of my scourges, the other 5 drop in range to shoot the land raider and my kabalite blob drops in some ruins in my opponent's deployment zone. the land raider survives shooting from 2 dark lance, 4 blasters and 4 haywire blaster (sadness). My venoms drop some plasma marine and my other scourge pop the final rhino. i fail my charge with my mandrakes, my succubus and wyches make the charge.
his t3 : he gets assassinate and secure objective 2, which happens to be an objective with one of my archon and a venom on it, he sends his demon prince, herald, possesed and his 20-daemonette blob at them, everything dies except for my archon, that gets super lucky shadowfield rolls against his DP.
my T3 : most of his army is locked in combat and wrapping my archon so i cant shoot at them. i wipe everything except for that blob and i start to spread my units over the map to get Domination. my archon does not survive the fight phase.
his t4 : he tries getting at my warlord but fails the charge, ends up only killing a few of my mandrakes, the rest wipe his possesed in combat.
my T4: i finally kill his DP with my ravager, i manage to make his daemonettes die to morale.
his t5 : hes got only his herald left, so he tries killing my warlord for some points, he fails.
my t5 : he concedes
The game went pretty well, i made some mistakes in it but thats how i learn best. i shouldve charged the land raider with my reavers to deny him one turn of shooting, i shouldve put all my scourges against the land raider since it was more dangerous than an empty rhino and my first archon shouldve been more protected.
the kabalite blob (which was the point of that game) did pretty well overall. being against a mostly melee army is affecting my judgement however, he never shot at them in their 3 turns of activity so i couldnt make use of the "failure is not an option" stratagem.
the map control i got from having 4 deepstriking units was pretty impressive.
I'd say that mandrakes are probably the next unit i'd like to test since they lasted a loong time in combat before finally dying.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/05/30 15:14:14
was up against slaanesh demons / emperor's children (hoorah for the fluffy battle!!).
Spoiler:
his list was something like this :
Chaos demons - Slaanesh
Demon prince
Herald on chariot
20x daemonnetes (deepstrike)
noise marines x2
possesed
2x rhinos
1 land raider
i deploy my kabal in the backfield, planning on using my longer range to put distance between him and the charge. My ravagers are hidden behind a tall ruin.
i put my reavers up front with a venom filled with wyches and a succubus behind them, planning on using them to tie up a rhino and try and make him unable to disembark while i smack it down.
i have my mandrakes, my scourge and my kabalite blob in reserve.
he deploys his 2 rhinos aggressively and hides his land raider behind some ruins.
He seizes the initiative.
His T1 : he moves up the rhinos and pops smoke, his demon prince and herald move forward, he moves his land raider out of the ruins and shoots at 2 of my venoms, unable to kill them.
My T1 : my wych cult move up to the closest rhino (this was a mistake, i should have gone for the land raider to tie it up in combat). my kabal venoms stay in the backfield, making sure my blasters are in range of his vehicles. i pop the nose of my ravagers out so they have line of sight on the map.
i quickly blow up his first rhino with blasters and i clear its contents with poison weapons, only 1 noise marine survives the shooting phase. The land raider takes some blaster hits but the damage rolls are low. the last noise marine kills himself in the overwatch by supercharging his plasma pistol.
his T2 : his possesed and demon prince make it to my reavers and quickly dipatch of them, the lascannon on the landraider oneshots one of my ravagers. he disembarks some plasma space marines from the second rhino and blows up my wych cult venom.
my T2 : i send my wyches and succubus away from the possesed/demon prince ball and towards the plasma marines and the rhino accompanying them. i drop my mandrakes clsoe to the plasma marines, along with 5 of my scourges, the other 5 drop in range to shoot the land raider and my kabalite blob drops in some ruins in my opponent's deployment zone. the land raider survives shooting from 2 dark lance, 4 blasters and 4 haywire blaster (sadness). My venoms drop some plasma marine and my other scourge pop the final rhino. i fail my charge with my mandrakes, my succubus and wyches make the charge.
his t3 : he gets assassinate and secure objective 2, which happens to be an objective with one of my archon and a venom on it, he sends his demon prince, herald, possesed and his 20-daemonette blob at them, everything dies except for my archon, that gets super lucky shadowfield rolls against his DP.
my T3 : most of his army is locked in combat and wrapping my archon so i cant shoot at them. i wipe everything except for that blob and i start to spread my units over the map to get Domination. my archon does not survive the fight phase.
his t4 : he tries getting at my warlord but fails the charge, ends up only killing a few of my mandrakes, the rest wipe his possesed in combat.
my T4: i finally kill his DP with my ravager, i manage to make his daemonettes die to morale.
his t5 : hes got only his herald left, so he tries killing my warlord for some points, he fails.
my t5 : he concedes
The game went pretty well, i made some mistakes in it but thats how i learn best. i shouldve charged the land raider with my reavers to deny him one turn of shooting, i shouldve put all my scourges against the land raider since it was more dangerous than an empty rhino and my first archon shouldve been more protected.
the kabalite blob (which was the point of that game) did pretty well overall. being against a mostly melee army is affecting my judgement however, he never shot at them in their 3 turns of activity so i couldnt make use of the "failure is not an option" stratagem.
the map control i got from having 4 deepstriking units was pretty impressive.
I'd say that mandrakes are probably the next unit i'd like to test since they lasted a loong time in combat before finally dying.
Mandrakes are very cool models. i own the old ones which aren't but i have to say: Mandrake models look great out there. I also happen to think they are pretty potent at their job and are kinda necessary in ITC missions where such a unit can really shine to grab you a couple points on the cheap.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Mandrakes are very cool models. i own the old ones which aren't but i have to say: Mandrake models look great out there. I also happen to think they are pretty potent at their job and are kinda necessary in ITC missions where such a unit can really shine to grab you a couple points on the cheap.
Mandrakes are among my favourite models in the DE range. The only thing I find sad is that there's only 3 of them and they're just 1-wound Elites. I'd really like to see them get an HQ choice or something like that.
As it stands, I've converted a few Mandrakes into HQs but it's not really the same.
Anyway, that aside, I think the current rules are the best they've ever had. Kinda wish I could take them as Ynnari.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
was up against slaanesh demons / emperor's children (hoorah for the fluffy battle!!).
his list was something like this :
Chaos demons - Slaanesh
Demon prince
Herald on chariot
20x daemonnetes (deepstrike)
noise marines x2
possesed
2x rhinos
1 land raider
i deploy my kabal in the backfield, planning on using my longer range to put distance between him and the charge. My ravagers are hidden behind a tall ruin.
i put my reavers up front with a venom filled with wyches and a succubus behind them, planning on using them to tie up a rhino and try and make him unable to disembark while i smack it down.
i have my mandrakes, my scourge and my kabalite blob in reserve.
he deploys his 2 rhinos aggressively and hides his land raider behind some ruins.
He seizes the initiative.
His T1 : he moves up the rhinos and pops smoke, his demon prince and herald move forward, he moves his land raider out of the ruins and shoots at 2 of my venoms, unable to kill them.
My T1 : my wych cult move up to the closest rhino (this was a mistake, i should have gone for the land raider to tie it up in combat). my kabal venoms stay in the backfield, making sure my blasters are in range of his vehicles. i pop the nose of my ravagers out so they have line of sight on the map.
i quickly blow up his first rhino with blasters and i clear its contents with poison weapons, only 1 noise marine survives the shooting phase. The land raider takes some blaster hits but the damage rolls are low. the last noise marine kills himself in the overwatch by supercharging his plasma pistol.
his T2 : his possesed and demon prince make it to my reavers and quickly dipatch of them, the lascannon on the landraider oneshots one of my ravagers. he disembarks some plasma space marines from the second rhino and blows up my wych cult venom.
my T2 : i send my wyches and succubus away from the possesed/demon prince ball and towards the plasma marines and the rhino accompanying them. i drop my mandrakes clsoe to the plasma marines, along with 5 of my scourges, the other 5 drop in range to shoot the land raider and my kabalite blob drops in some ruins in my opponent's deployment zone. the land raider survives shooting from 2 dark lance, 4 blasters and 4 haywire blaster (sadness). My venoms drop some plasma marine and my other scourge pop the final rhino. i fail my charge with my mandrakes, my succubus and wyches make the charge.
his t3 : he gets assassinate and secure objective 2, which happens to be an objective with one of my archon and a venom on it, he sends his demon prince, herald, possesed and his 20-daemonette blob at them, everything dies except for my archon, that gets super lucky shadowfield rolls against his DP.
my T3 : most of his army is locked in combat and wrapping my archon so i cant shoot at them. i wipe everything except for that blob and i start to spread my units over the map to get Domination. my archon does not survive the fight phase.
his t4 : he tries getting at my warlord but fails the charge, ends up only killing a few of my mandrakes, the rest wipe his possesed in combat.
my T4: i finally kill his DP with my ravager, i manage to make his daemonettes die to morale.
his t5 : hes got only his herald left, so he tries killing my warlord for some points, he fails.
my t5 : he concedes
The game went pretty well, i made some mistakes in it but thats how i learn best. i shouldve charged the land raider with my reavers to deny him one turn of shooting, i shouldve put all my scourges against the land raider since it was more dangerous than an empty rhino and my first archon shouldve been more protected.
the kabalite blob (which was the point of that game) did pretty well overall. being against a mostly melee army is affecting my judgement however, he never shot at them in their 3 turns of activity so i couldnt make use of the "failure is not an option" stratagem.
the map control i got from having 4 deepstriking units was pretty impressive.
I'd say that mandrakes are probably the next unit i'd like to test since they lasted a loong time in combat before finally dying.
I'm not shocked you didn't get to use the 'failure is not an option' stratagem. Honestly i think they'd die too quickly to be able to use it most of the time anyway.
I hope i don't come off as mean but i saw your list and i'm not too thrilled about it. You have some good objective holders and the reavers would be helpful if you had a few more but i'm just not feeling it. Scourge also die too quickly in general so that's one turn of shooting unless you can somehow get the enemy to not focus them down pretty easy which considering their range and numbers is really hard when you're in range of their short range stuff. Also you didn't give your archons blasters which is not good. The ravagers though are good. The huge warrior squad is nice through DS but will need support. Just 5 mandrakes doesn't sound great either unless you figured out something i'm missing.
I'm ofc not the best player so you should ask Amishprn for advice or one of the other veterans.
Lol sorry i forgot that you said it was a friendly game. Nm then carry on! It's not like you used a Soup list.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2019/05/31 23:56:11
was up against slaanesh demons / emperor's children (hoorah for the fluffy battle!!).
his list was something like this :
Chaos demons - Slaanesh
Demon prince
Herald on chariot
20x daemonnetes (deepstrike)
noise marines x2
possesed
2x rhinos
1 land raider
i deploy my kabal in the backfield, planning on using my longer range to put distance between him and the charge. My ravagers are hidden behind a tall ruin.
i put my reavers up front with a venom filled with wyches and a succubus behind them, planning on using them to tie up a rhino and try and make him unable to disembark while i smack it down.
i have my mandrakes, my scourge and my kabalite blob in reserve.
he deploys his 2 rhinos aggressively and hides his land raider behind some ruins.
He seizes the initiative.
His T1 : he moves up the rhinos and pops smoke, his demon prince and herald move forward, he moves his land raider out of the ruins and shoots at 2 of my venoms, unable to kill them.
My T1 : my wych cult move up to the closest rhino (this was a mistake, i should have gone for the land raider to tie it up in combat). my kabal venoms stay in the backfield, making sure my blasters are in range of his vehicles. i pop the nose of my ravagers out so they have line of sight on the map.
i quickly blow up his first rhino with blasters and i clear its contents with poison weapons, only 1 noise marine survives the shooting phase. The land raider takes some blaster hits but the damage rolls are low. the last noise marine kills himself in the overwatch by supercharging his plasma pistol.
his T2 : his possesed and demon prince make it to my reavers and quickly dipatch of them, the lascannon on the landraider oneshots one of my ravagers. he disembarks some plasma space marines from the second rhino and blows up my wych cult venom.
my T2 : i send my wyches and succubus away from the possesed/demon prince ball and towards the plasma marines and the rhino accompanying them. i drop my mandrakes clsoe to the plasma marines, along with 5 of my scourges, the other 5 drop in range to shoot the land raider and my kabalite blob drops in some ruins in my opponent's deployment zone. the land raider survives shooting from 2 dark lance, 4 blasters and 4 haywire blaster (sadness). My venoms drop some plasma marine and my other scourge pop the final rhino. i fail my charge with my mandrakes, my succubus and wyches make the charge.
his t3 : he gets assassinate and secure objective 2, which happens to be an objective with one of my archon and a venom on it, he sends his demon prince, herald, possesed and his 20-daemonette blob at them, everything dies except for my archon, that gets super lucky shadowfield rolls against his DP.
my T3 : most of his army is locked in combat and wrapping my archon so i cant shoot at them. i wipe everything except for that blob and i start to spread my units over the map to get Domination. my archon does not survive the fight phase.
his t4 : he tries getting at my warlord but fails the charge, ends up only killing a few of my mandrakes, the rest wipe his possesed in combat.
my T4: i finally kill his DP with my ravager, i manage to make his daemonettes die to morale.
his t5 : hes got only his herald left, so he tries killing my warlord for some points, he fails.
my t5 : he concedes
The game went pretty well, i made some mistakes in it but thats how i learn best. i shouldve charged the land raider with my reavers to deny him one turn of shooting, i shouldve put all my scourges against the land raider since it was more dangerous than an empty rhino and my first archon shouldve been more protected.
the kabalite blob (which was the point of that game) did pretty well overall. being against a mostly melee army is affecting my judgement however, he never shot at them in their 3 turns of activity so i couldnt make use of the "failure is not an option" stratagem.
the map control i got from having 4 deepstriking units was pretty impressive.
I'd say that mandrakes are probably the next unit i'd like to test since they lasted a loong time in combat before finally dying.
I'm not shocked you didn't get to use the 'failure is not an option' stratagem. Honestly i think they'd die too quickly to be able to use it most of the time anyway.
I hope i don't come off as mean but i saw your list and i'm not too thrilled about it. You have some good objective holders and the reavers would be helpful if you had a few more but i'm just not feeling it. Scourge also die too quickly in general so that's one turn of shooting unless you can somehow get the enemy to not focus them down pretty easy which considering their range and numbers is really hard when you're in range of their short range stuff. Also you didn't give your archons blasters which is not good. The ravagers though are good. The huge warrior squad is nice through DS but will need support. Just 5 mandrakes doesn't sound great either unless you figured out something i'm missing.
I'm ofc not the best player so you should ask Amishprn for advice or one of the other veterans.
Lol sorry i forgot that you said it was a friendly game. Nm then carry on! It's not like you used a Soup list.
no worries ! im new to the army so i like trying out wacky combinations to get a feel for the strengths and limitations of each unit. in my opinion, friendly games are perfect for that.
Is taking a blaster on an archon still legal? i thought that you had to use the latest available document's rules (so no blast archon, bloodbrides and trueborn)?.
The reason i only used 5 mandrakes is that the army i bought only had 5, still, they held their own enough for my interest to be piqued, i will be purchasing/converting some pretty soon.
It was the second time i was trying out scourges and they dont impress me, sure they have insane potential against vehicles but from my rolling so far, they put 2-3 mortal wounds on their targets and then proceeded to die in shame.
Now i really want to try out grotesques since i've heard only good from them. Problem is their price + them being finecast turns me off of them. i also magnetized my taloi so i dont have many leftover parts (except for faceplates) so kitbashing them from the classic Ogors/crypt ghouls isnt as easy an option it could be.
Is taking a blaster on an archon still legal? i thought that you had to use the latest available document's rules (so no blast archon, bloodbrides and trueborn)?.
They are still legal. One of the 3 billion GWFAQs had a flowchart explaining it but I'm currently unable to find it.
I just bought 6 more reaver models (2 boxes) so now i have one box of 3 left to get and then i'll have all 24. Hopefully i can still tear off those heat lances and add blasters to them. The cluster caltrops being traded for grav talons isn't huge but i could do that too.
I'm telling you it's so weird how reavers are used now. Back in 7th we'd take em in 3's or 6's and perhaps do jump shoot jump (esp. with heat lances which were actually good anti-tank back then) and eat units alive with cluster caltrops. Another dark eldar player i know said in like 5th you'd just speed them across enemies and do damage that way. Currently in 8th ed codex you use them for bogging down the enemy's shooting, taking objectives and maybe if i'm lucky those blasters on toughness 5 units will actually be somewhat survivable.
One of the reasons i'm taking spammed reavers is if i can maybe bog down some bigger opponents in combat like stormsurge and knights because at the end of the day a reaver jetbike isn't infantry and can't just be walked over. Sadly riptides and some similar units can just fly over em and still shoot.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/06/03 17:33:37
Is taking a blaster on an archon still legal? i thought that you had to use the latest available document's rules (so no blast archon, bloodbrides and trueborn)?.
They are still legal. One of the 3 billion GWFAQs had a flowchart explaining it but I'm currently unable to find it.
They are as legal as they have ever been. GW still allows this index flowchart, meant to not invalidate legacy models. But as has been always pointed out by the community, GW is moving towards rules = available from boxed models, so somewhere in the future this is being expected to be phased out. Whether it is soon when GW thinks it has given enough time to people to adapt; or never because it hopes these fringe cases will fade out with Indexes getting out of sale when all codices have been released, is anyone's guess.
If they really had wanted these options to stay legal indefinitely, they would have been in the codices. So their underlying will is to get rid of them (which as stated above could just mean a patient wait for things to fade out) or at least not actively promote them. In the US the trend seems to let the FC stand as long as it is not explicitly invalidated, in Europe non-Index seems to be more the approach to prepare for the future, or reckon that all codices being out means indexes that were meant as placeholder now not really count anymore and the FC is just an artifact to quell player grumbling at their models being invalidated.
When/if a hard invalidation of the FC/Index happens is hard to say. Could be next year, could be in 5 years, could be never. To plan a current army/model today based on these rules is not sure to pass the test of time, so be aware of that. In the meantime, it's GW-legal. Tournies/Events as usual may have their own restrictions (check with TOs) like with FW units but to a lesser degree.
They make money on index's so why force the models out? They may well us the data mined from events to see value in putting a model out later. So... i dunno. A lot of people like rough riders for example as low cost brigade fillers. Some of the things in the codex could easily be sold as a compendium with the most updated FAQ's in it. So there are marketing uses to sell what would otherwise be free online. I think smart people can make money here.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Jancoran wrote: They make money on index's so why force the models out?
Not any more, they don't. The only Index GW still sell is Imperium 2.
Go go compendium.
He is talking about the fact that they don't sell the Index's anymore (Which they don't), and 90% of the index options are upgrades for units not full units them selves that are already in other kits that you have for that army, and the few units that you need to buy separate kits for (think Tyranids Shrieks) no one plays them anyways, or they just use the same units (Kabals with Blaster just use as Trueborn) so they are not really making money from index units.
So i just had a pretty dissapointing experience with our fliers. I ran 2x razorwing + 1 voidraven yesterday in a blind game. Ended up playing against alpha legion with Rubricae, slaanesh obliterators, multiple contemptor dreads and a deredeo dread.
my flyers all got a single round of shooting before being taken down by the oblits/dreads.
I made other mistakes in the game but losing those felt almost out of my control since i HAVE to move them forward. I checked after the game and i noticed that many people were saying that they are overrated models and i finally understand why. i'd much rather run ravagers since i can actually control where they are and keep them hidden from some firepower.
(also, deepstriking wyches is a big feelbad when they miss their charge)
VladimirHerzog wrote: So i just had a pretty dissapointing experience with our fliers. I ran 2x razorwing + 1 voidraven yesterday in a blind game. Ended up playing against alpha legion with Rubricae, slaanesh obliterators, multiple contemptor dreads and a deredeo dread.
my flyers all got a single round of shooting before being taken down by the oblits/dreads.
I made other mistakes in the game but losing those felt almost out of my control since i HAVE to move them forward. I checked after the game and i noticed that many people were saying that they are overrated models and i finally understand why. i'd much rather run ravagers since i can actually control where they are and keep them hidden from some firepower.
(also, deepstriking wyches is a big feelbad when they miss their charge)
Turn them sideways, and place them on the opposite side of the board you want to attack, at deployment. This obviates the need to move forward very much in turn one. one hopes by the end of turn 2 you've done sufficient damage to curtail their anti-air presence.
But you have to remember: this is a dice game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/07 17:18:07
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
VladimirHerzog wrote: So i just had a pretty dissapointing experience with our fliers. I ran 2x razorwing + 1 voidraven yesterday in a blind game. Ended up playing against alpha legion with Rubricae, slaanesh obliterators, multiple contemptor dreads and a deredeo dread.
my flyers all got a single round of shooting before being taken down by the oblits/dreads.
I made other mistakes in the game but losing those felt almost out of my control since i HAVE to move them forward. I checked after the game and i noticed that many people were saying that they are overrated models and i finally understand why. i'd much rather run ravagers since i can actually control where they are and keep them hidden from some firepower.
(also, deepstriking wyches is a big feelbad when they miss their charge)
Turn them sideways, and place them on the opposite side of the board you want to attack, at deployment. This obviates the need to move forward very much in turn one. one hopes by the end of turn 2 you've done sufficient damage to curtail their anti-air presence.
But you have to remember: this is a dice game.
i deployed them all the way in the back of my deployment zone, out of range of any of his guns.
I'll have to try them out again in the future, maybe it was simply the fact that i was playing against oblits that made them look weak. i tried moving the minimum range while being in range to shoot at something worthwhile but since he deepstruck his oblits, there wasnt really a way for me to kill them before they killed me (god i wish 40k had alternating activations in situations like this)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/07 18:22:03
VladimirHerzog wrote: So i just had a pretty dissapointing experience with our fliers. I ran 2x razorwing + 1 voidraven yesterday in a blind game. Ended up playing against alpha legion with Rubricae, slaanesh obliterators, multiple contemptor dreads and a deredeo dread.
my flyers all got a single round of shooting before being taken down by the oblits/dreads.
I made other mistakes in the game but losing those felt almost out of my control since i HAVE to move them forward. I checked after the game and i noticed that many people were saying that they are overrated models and i finally understand why. i'd much rather run ravagers since i can actually control where they are and keep them hidden from some firepower.
(also, deepstriking wyches is a big feelbad when they miss their charge)
Turn them sideways, and place them on the opposite side of the board you want to attack, at deployment. This obviates the need to move forward very much in turn one. one hopes by the end of turn 2 you've done sufficient damage to curtail their anti-air presence.
But you have to remember: this is a dice game.
i deployed them all the way in the back of my deployment zone, out of range of any of his guns.
I'll have to try them out again in the future, maybe it was simply the fact that i was playing against oblits that made them look weak. i tried moving the minimum range while being in range to shoot at something worthwhile but since he deepstruck his oblits, there wasnt really a way for me to kill them before they killed me (god i wish 40k had alternating activations in situations like this)
I played a guy who house ruled activations. it was kind of absurd. Believe me: you don't want that.
Sometimes the shot you dont take is the best one you ever took. Sometimes against some forces, you haveto thin the herd before engaging. My Sisters of Battle are aware of this. They are fragile and easy to kill. So it behooves me to whittle the anti-infantry strngth a bit before committing them whole hog. So sometimes that means merely advancing them back and behind cover or around to the other side of a building shadow while the exorcists fire away.
The Dark Eldar can hit quite hard, but soemtimes, the Dark Eldar players i see get way too aggressie and overextend. with Dark eldar you should have ZERO problem cutting off Deep Strikes and that in turn should give you zero problems protecting the jets for two turns (barring just plain dumb luck with some long range goodness they have).
I'm just speaking from my own experience with many mnay armies and the one thing I find about 8E is that cutting off the Deep Strikes with the cheapest of characters and or units is just easy. You get some 9 inch sticks or whatever, and place the unit at the vertex from the absolute corners, exactly 9". Then measure 9" and put another unit. And so on. a little Haemonculous can cut off a large swath.
net result: the enemy ends up in front of your guns and not behind you or around you. They are no better off than if they started on the board. Misdirection on your deployment will also help. Like i said: deploy to the side you dont intend to atack and use your amaxing speed to jet the other way. now you're pretty far from the enemys main force and firing freely.
Nothing works all the time, but this is some food for thought.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/06/07 18:30:37
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
oh i know screening isnt hard to achieve, the problem with his oblits is that he didnt deepstrike them behind me, he dropped them right in the middle of his castle, right next to his auras and masters of possessions for the buffs. He used the deepstrike defensively so that i couldnt shoot them down before they could shoot
VladimirHerzog wrote: oh i know screening isnt hard to achieve, the problem with his oblits is that he didnt deepstrike them behind me, he dropped them right in the middle of his castle, right next to his auras and masters of possessions for the buffs. He used the deepstrike defensively so that i couldnt shoot them down before they could shoot
Cant win em all. But you'll know its coming next time so question is...what's the plan?
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Burnage wrote: Venom spam is great, but it's mostly due to target saturation and the durability of the Venoms as opposed to the poison weaponry itself.
Regarding Venom-spam, do you think Warriors with Blasters are the best units to put into the Venoms?
Well I'm new to dark eldar but with the list I'm working on above, I just thought I was a bit light on anti- tank.
I guess if you've got plenty of other anti tank you could run them cheap with no upgrades.
Blasters fit in nicely with the range of splinter cannons though, as long as I'm within 18" it's all good, shredders are cool but a bit shorter range I think.
VladimirHerzog wrote: oh i know screening isnt hard to achieve, the problem with his oblits is that he didnt deepstrike them behind me, he dropped them right in the middle of his castle, right next to his auras and masters of possessions for the buffs. He used the deepstrike defensively so that i couldnt shoot them down before they could shoot
Cant win em all. But you'll know its coming next time so question is...what's the plan?
Im not sure but my main plan will be to stay out of range of his castle, and run ravagers instead of flyers, that way i can have better control on what he can shoot at. Also having something (ravagers) be black heart so i can vect his endless cacophony will help.
also, i probably am forcing the cults too much since i love the wych/reaver models.
Burnage wrote: Venom spam is great, but it's mostly due to target saturation and the durability of the Venoms as opposed to the poison weaponry itself.
Regarding Venom-spam, do you think Warriors with Blasters are the best units to put into the Venoms?
I'd say so. If you're spamming them you want them to be as effective against as many potential targets as possible and Blasters mixed with poison weaponry is the easiest way to achieve that.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
