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So I am mainly an AoS player, but was thinking of getting into 40k as a sort of side project. Sometimes you just need to shoot some ray guns, instead of swinging that sword over and over, you know?
Played 40k for several editions as an Ork player. Quit around 5th edition or so. I no longer have my Orks (long story) and I am not very happy with the current version of the Ork army. Faced with the prospect of starting Orks over from scratch, I feel like if you are going to buy (or in my case, REbuy) and paint that many models, you should really love what you are building, and that's just not where I'm at right now.
Cue the Drukhari. Always thought they had a cool concept for an army. Thinking about giving them a whirl. Just starting my preliminary research - already hitting 1d4chan, YouTube, etc. Thought I would see what you folks had to say.
1) how are pure Drukhari armies performing these days?
2) how dependent on CP's are they?
3) what's the usual model count for a 2000 pt army these days? How many infantry and vehicles?
4) having so many large flying vehicles seems like a pain to transport. Is this true and what do you to counter that?
5) how many, and what sorts of detachments do you use?
I guess that's enough to get me started. Thanks in advance!
1) Pure is really good, very competitive and has many different competitive builds
2) All DE armies can easily get 8-9CP without trying, there is no reason to not take at least 1 battalion, and 8CP is enough to make them work
3) Model count depends on your list, there has been comp list with 15x5 kabals and 15 venoms, there has been comp lists with 3x5 kabals and the rest vehicles (3 ravagers, 3 venoms, 6 flyers) But in general you want 3 troops no matter what, if you are going for comptetition that oculd be Wracks or Kabals, wyches do work, but are harder to play and for a new player kabals or coven is best. But normally you want more than 3 kabals unless you go vehicles heavy, you can as well mix, Kabal and coven for Talos/wracks/ravager/kabals, etc.. so with vehicles anywhere from 30 to 90 models
4) Just get a plastic storage bin and you are fine, its not a problem when you only have 2300-2500pts, i have 10k points and it all fits in 4 bins (I'll link you what i get), but i also hot glue foam board and sheet metal on the bottoms and magnets on all my bases
5) This is back to number 3, it really comes down to you playstyle and what you want, 1 battalion and 1-2 specialist (heavy/flyer/elite) or 2 battalions. Its very common to go all into Kabal or Coven, its as common to go a mix.
Kabal are your fast, fragile, shooting units. Death by 1000 cuts and you have a lot of redundancies so if 1 or 2 dies you dont care.
Coven is your Nurgle of DE, high toughness, high wounds, good save (4++) melee is very strong (str 5-8) with limited shooting (Mostly just Talos 2D3 shots or Wracks 1 shot per 5) it is common to take kabal with them for long range support, it is more common to take Harlequins with them as Coven doesnt use a lot foCP and harlequins/Kabals uses more.
What i would suggest for a beginner?
You will for sure want to get at least 2 boxes of kabals and make 4x5 and 4 venoms, get 2 Archons as well, that will be you basic Battalion, this will be around 500-600pts depending if you give them blaster/shredders or nothing, the more venoms+kabals you have the more they work, having 1-3 doesnt do much, 4 or more and you start to feel them, but reall if you can get more thats good. For each box of Kabals you can get 2 Venoms for them, a lot of players think 6-7 is the sweet spot if you bring other things. After that you'll want some good fire power, Ravagers and or Flyers. I personally like the Flyers better as they have a -1 to be hit already on them for 10pts more, but ravagers are for sure more damaging. Ravagers are still extremely good and many will take both. But if you had to pick just 1 or the other, its up to you, go by what you like the playstyle better.
As a new player being built a list pure DE 1 subfaction this is what i tell most to build
So something like this: PS its 1500 ish points, give or take 50pts, so now you have 500pts of flavor you can add. It also works well for 1500-1750 point events. Good allies are Coven Grots or Talos, Quins Skyweavers, or CWE Airwing or Fire prism spearhead
Archon
Archon
Kabal x5 (a blaster/shredder)
Kabal x5 (a blaster/shredder)
Kabal x5 (a blaster/shredder)
Kabal x5 (a blaster/shredder)
Kabal x5 (a blaster/shredder)
Kabal x5 (a blaster/shredder)
Venom
Venom
Venom
Venom
Venom
Venom
RWJF x2 DC RWJF x2 DC
Spear head
Archon
Ravager x3 DC Ravager x3 DC Ravager x3 DC
I'd rather hate to be a downer but I don't think we touched on my previous match-up vs tau that went horribly. It's not just the riptides but all the drones. Unless he used them incorrectly which is possible those heavy burst cannons and railguns or missiles just tear through our forces like they're made out of wet toilet paper. I want to fight at range but anti tank and heavy burst cannons have a lot of range. Only idea I have is swamp the board with bodies or something and give em dark lances and/or blasters with obsidian rose. After that just go for a list with max dissies and pray for the best. I might sub shredderborn in venom for the somewhat cheaper 30 dsing scourge with 18" shardcarbines. I need some viable way to handle tau drones without huge worry. Of course it might be worse vs other opponents like custodes to have poison but tau are really getting on my nerves. The other issue is besides dissies our longest range anti-infantry in any massive form is at the 18" Mark. That's just within range of a whole battleline. Shardcarbines, mandrakes and obsidian rose shredderborn in venom seem the best choice vs tau infantry and drones.
Either way going durable and semi cheap, fragile but distant or expendable, cheap and numerous could be legit.
Honestly it's times like this I wish they didn't nerf splinter cannons into the ground. Imagine if they were heavy 6 or assault 6 on vehicles. I'd take a lot more venom but instead you gotta take em close and hope they have nothing of value inside or they die and it'll be costly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/04 05:52:57
flamingkillamajig wrote: I'd rather hate to be a downer but I don't think we touched on my previous match-up vs tau that went horribly. It's not just the riptides but all the drones. Unless he used them incorrectly which is possible those heavy burst cannons and railguns or missiles just tear through our forces like they're made out of wet toilet paper. I want to fight at range but anti tank and heavy burst cannons have a lot of range. Only idea I have is swamp the board with bodies or something and give em dark lances and/or blasters with obsidian rose. After that just go for a list with max dissies and pray for the best. I might sub shredderborn in venom for the somewhat cheaper 30 dsing scourge with 18" shardcarbines. I need some viable way to handle tau drones without huge worry. Of course it might be worse vs other opponents like custodes to have poison but tau are really getting on my nerves. The other issue is besides dissies our longest range anti-infantry in any massive form is at the 18" Mark. That's just within range of a whole battleline. Shardcarbines, mandrakes and obsidian rose shredderborn in venom seem the best choice vs tau infantry and drones.
Either way going durable and semi cheap, fragile but distant or expendable, cheap and numerous could be legit.
Honestly it's times like this I wish they didn't nerf splinter cannons into the ground. Imagine if they were heavy 6 or assault 6 on vehicles. I'd take a lot more venom but instead you gotta take em close and hope they have nothing of value inside or they die and it'll be costly.
Take 10 Venoms as flawed skull, start 40" away, move 19" and kill all the drones then laugh.
De relays on how cheap and fast we are, something will die for usre, make sure its when you want it to die (our speed) and make sure they wastes shots by over killing them.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/04 07:25:30
Is this a stupid idea or an interesting idea. I'm not so sure and haven't play tested but what if I had 3 units of 10 mandrakes in 3 raiders (30 total). It could give mandrakes more turn 1 shooting esp with their assault weapons and if the transport should pop most will live and need to be picked off on foot as well. It might get expensive to try though what with 240 pts for vehicles but it'd saturate vehicle targets for the enemy to shoot at maybe. I'd probably just try 20 mandrakes like that but could be fun one way or another. The raiders would also allow mandrakes to re -deploy if some good melee units would rather the mandrakes not live.
I think you are right Amish. Too many pts per each single thing esp. for any non-covens dark eldar unit. Gotta run em cheap. It was just a thought I guess.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/04 23:45:56
Mandrakes are fine without transports, yes they come in from T2+ but thats fine, they are still viable in doing that, tho i wouldnt take 30 of them or something crazy, but a couple 5 mans or a 10 one can pressure someone else that you are not and still do something.
Amishprn86 wrote: Mandrakes are fine without transports, yes they come in from T2+ but thats fine, they are still viable in doing that, tho i wouldnt take 30 of them or something crazy, but a couple 5 mans or a 10 one can pressure someone else that you are not and still do something.
I use them to stop deployment shenanigans.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
How viable would grotesques be against IH? I'm thinking max units of 10 which are about 350 points. That's still quite hard to shift even for IH, you could swamp walkers and wrap them, probbaly beating them in CC. 40 wounds, 4++ with 6+++. MW output in CC. I think they're possibly better than Talos in this matchup
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/05 12:56:54
Elfric wrote: How viable would grotesques be against IH? I'm thinking max units of 10 which are about 350 points. That's still quite hard to shift even for IH, you could swamp walkers and wrap them, probbaly beating them in CC. 40 wounds, 4++ with 6+++. MW output in CC. I think they're possibly better than Talos in this matchup
Don't forget you can put 5 in a Raider. Makes them tougher turn one. And pretty much guarantees a t2 charge.
flamingkillamajig wrote: I'd rather hate to be a downer but I don't think we touched on my previous match-up vs tau that went horribly. It's not just the riptides but all the drones. Unless he used them incorrectly which is possible those heavy burst cannons and railguns or missiles just tear through our forces like they're made out of wet toilet paper. I want to fight at range but anti tank and heavy burst cannons have a lot of range. Only idea I have is swamp the board with bodies or something and give em dark lances and/or blasters with obsidian rose. After that just go for a list with max dissies and pray for the best. I might sub shredderborn in venom for the somewhat cheaper 30 dsing scourge with 18" shardcarbines. I need some viable way to handle tau drones without huge worry. Of course it might be worse vs other opponents like custodes to have poison but tau are really getting on my nerves. The other issue is besides dissies our longest range anti-infantry in any massive form is at the 18" Mark. That's just within range of a whole battleline. Shardcarbines, mandrakes and obsidian rose shredderborn in venom seem the best choice vs tau infantry and drones.
Either way going durable and semi cheap, fragile but distant or expendable, cheap and numerous could be legit.
Honestly it's times like this I wish they didn't nerf splinter cannons into the ground. Imagine if they were heavy 6 or assault 6 on vehicles. I'd take a lot more venom but instead you gotta take em close and hope they have nothing of value inside or they die and it'll be costly.
Take 10 Venoms as flawed skull, start 40" away, move 19" and kill all the drones then laugh.
De relays on how cheap and fast we are, something will die for usre, make sure its when you want it to die (our speed) and make sure they wastes shots by over killing them.
The added movement on flayed skull is simply insane. You can be everywhere turn 1 and you pretty much can always deploy conservatively. The raiders and ravagers are even excellent with a 17" move. As much as I like black heart for durability I think I like flayed skull more for the rerolls and ignore cover coupled with the added speed. Better to not be hit first. I also dabbled with a raider containing 10 mandrakes, so I could use masters of the shadowed sky and pass it onto the passengers. I am not 100% sure on the legality of this but it seems like it should work since any hit mods imparted onto a transport effect the occupants. Either way it has a 35" threat range turn 1 and really does work on drones. I have run them from reserve a lot, I own 20 and regularly use them but with the new vanguard marine stuff it's harder then you would expect to find good real estate turn 2 and I would rather use these guys turn 1. Still valid from reserves but don't knock them in a transport until you have tried it.
Edit: also to illustrate further, 10 in a flayed skull raider can move 17" then aether sail +8" then fire everyone and then pop fire and fade for a further 7" grabbing LOSblocking terrain and setting up for an assault next turn. If the anti air strat does work fine you can use that to cancel the -1 from advancing if you target something with fly.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Elfric wrote: How viable would grotesques be against IH? I'm thinking max units of 10 which are about 350 points. That's still quite hard to shift even for IH, you could swamp walkers and wrap them, probbaly beating them in CC. 40 wounds, 4++ with 6+++. MW output in CC. I think they're possibly better than Talos in this matchup
I love grots but they get hosed by anyone that knows to movement block them. Also the MW don't work on vehicles remember. Talos work better due to fly and the ability to shoot and fire and fade forward. Either way don't forget to black cornucopian a 10 man wrack unit. I don't think even our coven stuff can out last the shooting they pour out though. I would honestly play more cagey then try to rush up the gut.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/10/08 00:45:09
I'm actually mixed if I should not go obsidian rose for the 6" shooting range boost. I mean I can see flayed skull helps with movement and its other bonuses are good but having shredders be so close to their enemy isn't ideal. They can get charged anyway sure but shredderborn in venom have their range limits. I'm honestly considering dropping them due to points as soon as I can afford better stuff. I think more dissies would work.
I'm always curious about taking dark scythe on my void ravens but I never end up trying them. It just feels random as a weapon in shots and damage and range is a little short. Obsidian rose might help them and I do find dark scythe strength, ap and at times volume of shots attractive. It's on average 4 STR 8 ap 4 d3 damage per void raven which hits harder than dissies but lacks volume of fire tho could probably hurt custodes bikes and riptides better. 12 shots between 3 void ravens would be interesting tho.
I'm mixed on grots. They are durable sure esp with prophets of flesh but I'd say prophets are better vs knights and at least last longer vs tau though tend to eat a lot of firepower but at least they take it for other units.
Coven of 12 grots have better flesh gauntlet attacks though which hurt riptides and custodes better and their normal weapons hurt tanks without inv saves better. I was actually thinking small venom with wracks would be interesting earlier but only really so you could put a haemi behind to give the venom a toughness boost. I don't think it'd help much anymore and warriors inside are better but it was just a thought.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/08 03:57:44
Maybe of interest but following drukhari+harlequin alliance got crushed 0-20 by iron hands on tournament here(well everybody got crushed by IH pretty much...Only non 20-0 for the 3 IH players was 11-9 between 2 iron hands...)
Spoiler:
ARMY DESCRIPTION: Aeldari, Drukhari <Prophets of Flesh>, Harlequins <Soaring Spite>
TOTAL ARMY POINTS: 2000
COMMAND POINTS: 3+5+1 = 9
REFINED STRATEGY: Advance, Priority Orders Received, Kingslayer, Psychological Warfare, Witch Hunter, Assassinate
models that are in transports are not on the board. Ergo, nothing affects them except that they are affected while passengers by falling back as the FAQ says.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/08 06:53:54
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Jancoran wrote: models that are in transports are not on the board. Ergo, nothing affects them except that they are affected while passengers by falling back as the FAQ says.
I've never liked this rule. While I think you could apply this to closed transports like rhinos and so on, open topped vehicles SHOULD be able to see their leader to benefit from his/her bonus. Further more I can't believe units in open topped transports cannot overwatch, despite being able to fire in the shooting phase.
Jancoran wrote: models that are in transports are not on the board. Ergo, nothing affects them except that they are affected while passengers by falling back as the FAQ says.
I've never liked this rule. While I think you could apply this to closed transports like rhinos and so on, open topped vehicles SHOULD be able to see their leader to benefit from his/her bonus. Further more I can't believe units in open topped transports cannot overwatch, despite being able to fire in the shooting phase.
That would make sense. I'd say there's also scope for an assault vehicle rule, that allows units to disembark after the vehicle has moved.
The kabal traits are both decent. Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta but I am not sure it dethrones Flayed skull or black heart.
The wych cult test of skill seems like the winner to me. It makes cults more viable for conducting AT. Heck even their venoms wound vehicles on a 5+
The kabal traits are both decent. Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta but I am not sure it dethrones Flayed skull or black heart.
The wych cult test of skill seems like the winner to me. It makes cults more viable for conducting AT. Heck even their venoms wound vehicles on a 5+
Im a bit sad honestly, i wish the +3" movement was for wyches, that means +3" hellions, i wanted something to play differently, not more venom spam. Give Coven +1 wound and 5+++, now horde wracks, give Wyches +3" and Run and charge, now Reavers/Hellions are a thing, give coven move after disembarked, now Grots + raiders are a thing. etc.. there are so many cool options to build different armies and GW didnt do any of them.
Elfric wrote: I've never liked this rule. While I think you could apply this to closed transports like rhinos and so on, open topped vehicles SHOULD be able to see their leader to benefit from his/her bonus. Further more I can't believe units in open topped transports cannot overwatch, despite being able to fire in the shooting phase.
And models embarked on an open-topped flying transport should be able to shoot after retreating, like their transport.
Red Corsair wrote: Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta but I am not sure it dethrones Flayed skull or black heart.
Well, it's only one trait out of the two you can take for your custom kabal.
+3 Movement will come especially handy for vehicles with degrading stats. With this trait, even a Raider down to its last damage tier still has Movement 9. Not too shabby.
.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/08 22:01:39
The kabal traits are both decent. Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta but I am not sure it dethrones Flayed skull or black heart.
The wych cult test of skill seems like the winner to me. It makes cults more viable for conducting AT. Heck even their venoms wound vehicles on a 5+
Im a bit sad honestly, i wish the +3" movement was for wyches, that means +3" hellions, i wanted something to play differently, not more venom spam. Give Coven +1 wound and 5+++, now horde wracks, give Wyches +3" and Run and charge, now Reavers/Hellions are a thing, give coven move after disembarked, now Grots + raiders are a thing. etc.. there are so many cool options to build different armies and GW didnt do any of them.
Yea I agree, I was annoyed to see them use a perk we already had access to in the same tree. I really want my hellions to be better but honestly until they get an AP on their weapon and another attack (even an impact hit or something) they just don't hit hard enough and they don't survive either. I hope they have a trait for cult that focuses on hellions and reavers (-1 to hit maybe).
Jancoran wrote: models that are in transports are not on the board. Ergo, nothing affects them except that they are affected while passengers by falling back as the FAQ says.
I've never liked this rule. While I think you could apply this to closed transports like rhinos and so on, open topped vehicles SHOULD be able to see their leader to benefit from his/her bonus. Further more I can't believe units in open topped transports cannot overwatch, despite being able to fire in the shooting phase.
"Should" is a word I waste no time using. reality is reality.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Jancoran wrote: models that are in transports are not on the board. Ergo, nothing affects them except that they are affected while passengers by falling back as the FAQ says.
I wasn't referring to the units inside the vehicle but rather the vehicle being boosted by the haemi's toughness boost (a haemi on the outside of the venom) since a venom can have that keyword. I've heard of people do this before or at least plan it out. That way you'd get T6 venoms. Of course that means they have to be haemi venoms and that might not be worth it.
That said as dumb as the no aura for units inside a vehicle is for the sake of our archon I find it far dumber the fact we can have a unit AND an hq inside the same transport and the aura doesn't effect either of them inside.
*inside a transport somewhere*
Archon: "HEY YOU GUYS WANNA BE INSPIRED!!!"
Trueborn: "Naaaa."
Archon: "Me neither now that I think about it."
@Amish: Honestly I feel no massive interest in the new rules I've seen so far. Multi-damage poison is fine yeah but without an AP of some kind it's still kind of garbage against things like riptides or vehicles. Experimental creations could be good. Test of skill could be good with hellions but they suck. Acrobatic display is good on wyches and succubus but garbage for everything else. Mobile raiders would be hilarious if added to flayed skull so that you get an extra 6" move (unless they will FAQ that).
Wait i'm confused how this all works now that I see it say obsessions. Can somebody give me an idea here as I only have the rulebook and dark eldar codex.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/10/09 00:06:12
The kabal traits are both decent. Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta
Have fun either rolling every single splinter shot individually or else just having the Primaris player allocate the 2-damage shots to wounded Primaris.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/10/09 07:50:13
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
The kabal traits are both decent. Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta
Have fun either rolling every single splinter shot individually or else just having the Primaris player allocate the 2-damage shots to wounded Primaris.
You have to do same pools, you cant do 1D then a 2D then a 1D, etc...
The kabal traits are both decent. Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta
Have fun either rolling every single splinter shot individually or else just having the Primaris player allocate the 2-damage shots to wounded Primaris.
You have to do same pools, you cant do 1D then a 2D then a 1D, etc...
You can't go first all 2d's, then 1d's and follow actually rules though...
The kabal traits are both decent. Damage 2 poison on a 6 is decent verse tanks and very solid on the primaris heavy shift of the meta
Have fun either rolling every single splinter shot individually or else just having the Primaris player allocate the 2-damage shots to wounded Primaris.
You have to do same pools, you cant do 1D then a 2D then a 1D, etc...
Unless I've missed an FAQ somewhere, there is no requirement in the rulebook to resolve wounds in pools based on damage.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
reality is reality.
