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 vipoid wrote:

 Gnarlly wrote:

-Guardsman- wrote:
With the new Chapter Approved, dark lances are now cheaper than blasters. Kinda weird tbh.

Same points now.

Same? Have Blasters gone down to 15?

I apologize, you were correct. I was thinking dissies which are now equal to dark lances.

I've got myself some Incubi, and I don't think I can face trying to magnetise them. I take it that the Dual Blades are the better option?

My intention is to field them with Drazhar, and they will thus (hopefully) be benefitting from his Master of Blades.

 harlokin wrote:
I've got myself some Incubi, and I don't think I can face trying to magnetise them. I take it that the Dual Blades are the better option?

My intention is to field them with Drazhar, and they will thus (hopefully) be benefitting from his Master of Blades.

Wouldn't you only be magnetizing the one dude with klaive and demiklaive?

the_scotsman wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I've got myself some Incubi, and I don't think I can face trying to magnetise them. I take it that the Dual Blades are the better option?

My intention is to field them with Drazhar, and they will thus (hopefully) be benefitting from his Master of Blades.

Wouldn't you only be magnetizing the one dude with klaive and demiklaive?

Ahhh... right you are

 harlokin wrote:
I've got myself some Incubi, and I don't think I can face trying to magnetise them. I take it that the Dual Blades are the better option?

Nope. Dual blades are awful.

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
I've got myself some Incubi, and I don't think I can face trying to magnetise them. I take it that the Dual Blades are the better option?

Nope. Dual blades are awful.

They are anti horde and better vs T8 with invuls (b.c you get +2 attacks and AP doesnt matter). So there are situations that it is better, note that on average vs T8, 5++ they are doing 8 wounds, and that Onslaught which you get 4 more hits (making it 9.5 wounds) honestly that not that for dual blades with draz near.

I was able to use them the one tournament i had them in to finish off a Knight and a Stompa (tho DT Talos was much better lol but thats 300pts vs 200pts and now Draz+Inc are 180pts)

Can't they switch from one to the other depending on the needs of the moment? If so, I don't see what's the point of magnetizing the blades.

Bear in mind that (unless I'm mistaken) the blades aren't free.

So you're just going to be paying for an extra profile that's worse than the normal one about 90% of the time.

Yes, there are situations where the dual-blade mode is better. However, by this logic one should buy every possible upgrade on every model just in case it happens to be useful. Maybe this game will be the one where that Agoniser on your Sybarite turns the tables!

You get both, its 1 weapon with 2 profiles, you dont pay for them and every time you choose to fight you get to pick the version you want.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
You get both, its 1 weapon with 2 profiles, you dont pay for them and every time you choose to fight you get to pick the version you want.

Oh fair enough. I hadn't realised Demiklaives were free now.

Guess there's no reason not to always take them then.

 vipoid wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
You get both, its 1 weapon with 2 profiles, you dont pay for them and every time you choose to fight you get to pick the version you want.

Oh fair enough. I hadn't realised Demiklaives were free now.

Guess there's no reason not to always take them then.

yep, they free. Klaivex can only take a regular klaive now in case you own the old finecast sculpts where he's modeled with one.

For any newer players it can be model either way and its still wysiwyg, you don't need to "pick" the weapon based on if its together or not on the model, it is 100% ok to build you model either way and use both profiles.

So I'm going to play a 2k pts game on Saturday against gsc. I've never fought gsc before but I heard they are bigger glass cannons than us and they are mostly good in melee. Since I'm good at range I'll try to stay at range and shoot him if possible. Any tips on what I might end up facing?

They are good at placing damage where they need to, not so much good at damage in genera, but can have 2 or 3 damage types and put them when and where it is needed, they'll have a couple solid melee and a couple solid shooting units.

The key is to know how their Ambushing works, look at 1d4chan for hose rules and then counter deploy around that. We have a stratagem to redeploy 3 units (tho you might not want to play poison tongue). If you can counter deploy them you should be fine. Use a few Kabal units as screens, even Court (they are 15pts) as a couple screen units too for their Ambushing.

Once they are on the table and do their damage, they are very glass, its mostly just Guardsmen stats with a couple T4, and maybe some minor invuls.

Watch out for the Bikes, Aberrants, some powers, units with Demo charges, and a couple of their assassin like characters.

Not sure if someone brought this up before but is anybody aware of the crazy damage grotesques can do with liquifiers and dark technomancers. You get like 35 shots auto hitting shots per 10, which also scares some melee units away. Then even with low strength you enhance and always wound no worse than 5 so about 12 wounds. If it's a knight it's anywhere from 6-8 wounds with each wound doing 2 damage each and this is before the melee phase.

If you take other experimental creations it makes these guys even stronger or master torturers which would make the re-roll wounds on grots that much sicker since they cost less.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So I'm going to play a 2k pts game on Saturday against gsc. I've never fought gsc before but I heard they are bigger glass cannons than us and they are mostly good in melee. Since I'm good at range I'll try to stay at range and shoot him if possible. Any tips on what I might end up facing?

Basically GSC want your army to have one big target for them to crack, and a bunch of exposed infantry for their little mooks to pop up and clear. Most GSC strategies follow a pattern of "Chaff on the table, stuff that does stuff in deep strike" because unfortunately unlike drukhari their open-topped transports are not functional and fairly priced, so the alternative gameplay strategy that would be like shooty neophytes in trucks is pretty garbage.

The way to beat them would be to have as many of your squads in transports as possible, and spread the value in your force as evenly as possible. Which, luckily, drukhari are very good at. A basic squad of splinters in a venom is a huge pain for a GSC army to deal with.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Not sure if someone brought this up before but is anybody aware of the crazy damage grotesques can do with liquifiers and dark technomancers. You get like 35 shots auto hitting shots per 10, which also scares some melee units away. Then even with low strength you enhance and always wound no worse than 5 so about 12 wounds. If it's a knight it's anywhere from 6-8 wounds with each wound doing 2 damage each and this is before the melee phase.

If you take other experimental creations it makes these guys even stronger or master torturers which would make the re-roll wounds on grots that much sicker since they cost less.

It it makes them 46ppm, imo thats way to much for them with only a 5++

the_scotsman wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So I'm going to play a 2k pts game on Saturday against gsc. I've never fought gsc before but I heard they are bigger glass cannons than us and they are mostly good in melee. Since I'm good at range I'll try to stay at range and shoot him if possible. Any tips on what I might end up facing?

Basically GSC want your army to have one big target for them to crack, and a bunch of exposed infantry for their little mooks to pop up and clear. Most GSC strategies follow a pattern of "Chaff on the table, stuff that does stuff in deep strike" because unfortunately unlike drukhari their open-topped transports are not functional and fairly priced, so the alternative gameplay strategy that would be like shooty neophytes in trucks is pretty garbage.

The way to beat them would be to have as many of your squads in transports as possible, and spread the value in your force as evenly as possible. Which, luckily, drukhari are very good at. A basic squad of splinters in a venom is a huge pain for a GSC army to deal with.

Sounds legit Scottie. Sadly I don't think I have enough vehicles or transports to really take advantage of this. The plan I had was going to be: put lots of worthless crap up front to make DS not kill anything worthwhile when it comes in (worthwhile stuff goes closer to the back) and then stay at a distance and shoot him to death. I figure poison or even shredders work better vs aberrants due to the -1 to damage they have. I may just shoot at them with poison honestly just because shredders are a bit iffy. The reaver screens or using other units as screens does work when protecting shredder units though.

@amishprn86: You're probably right and I do make bad judgment calls but if nothing else I could play my normal groteques as the liquefier variant to test if that strategy works. I'm thinking 2 units of 5 grotesques w/ liquefiers in a raider each. The other issue with giving them technomancers is whenever they do shoot it will start to kill grotesques. Meaty as they are that probably isn't ideal to be dying to their guns before they even hit a melee and even worse if the vehicle dies and they crawl out and roll 1's. Thankfully it isn't quite all eggs in one basket but it's still not ideal. This strategy probably won't work but I like trying new things.

Btw when a unit of grotesques fire and some misfire and hurt themselves and have multiple wounds in a squad of said units how does wound allocation work. Do I wound each grotesque separately as it seems to be written or do I allocate all to one model until they die off and move to the next as per usual?

They have to go on a single model at a time.

All wounds have to stack on 1 models at a time, its the main rule for wounds on a unit, even if you have a rule that sayd "This model takes a wound" if its in a unit then you place it on an already wounded model.

Game was switched to 1500 pts. It was objectives and I lost. Interestingly enough both of us were getting slaughtered but he drew some better cards. I may need more command points in the future if I get bad card draws.

Oh and you guys won't believe what happened. Both my archons failed their 2+ inv save the first wound they had to save and got destroyed hard from it. I had to charge the enemy with the first one which was my warlord and he did well and would've probably lived. It sucked because I rolled up an objective he could've grabbed but the gsc were grabbing it with a troop unit with rock saws and he kept conga lining so he could consolidate into units he didn't charge and surrounding them so I couldn't leave combat since they were foot troops. It just forced me to drop a void mine on his guys and charge them with my warlord (away from his rock saws of course). It was just so frustrating my leader died that way. 4 points i couldve earned gone. Not to mention one objective card gave him d3 victory points and he rolled a 6 while i rolled like a 1 for my d3 victory points. I was screwed by a few bad rolls. That possibly isnt entirely true but i dont think i couldve guaranteed my warlords safety either.

Anyway I killed his patriarch, magos and the vox caster looking dude. Shockingly the venoms with shredders lived all game. We both lost almost all our guys.

So what to learn in the future? I guess I should learn to space my guys apart more. He was doing some sketchy moves. I'm normally not used to deep strike units though or at least not fast charging ones. To an extent I've faced them with khorne armies but it's still rare for me.

Shadowfield is the worst mechanic in our entire codex.

 vipoid wrote:
Shadowfield is the worst mechanic in our entire codex.

Shadow field is the best bit of war gear in the entire codex.

Its fluffy its stupidly powerful until you lose it and then your Archon is stuck in the open with his pants down. Best of all it can never be re rolled so it can't be abused. If you don't want to risk it you can always take the armor save instead. I run obsidian rose and take the armor of misery. 3+2++ is a tough guy. At least for us.


If you want reliability play Marines.

Headlss wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Shadowfield is the worst mechanic in our entire codex.

Shadow field is the best bit of war gear in the entire codex.

Its fluffy its stupidly powerful until you lose it and then your Archon is stuck in the open with his pants down. Best of all it can never be re rolled so it can't be abused. If you don't want to risk it you can always take the armor save instead. I run obsidian rose and take the armor of misery. 3+2++ is a tough guy. At least for us.

If you want reliability play Marines.

Agreed - always loved it

 vipoid wrote:
Shadowfield is the worst mechanic in our entire codex.

The sad bit is at the end of 7th it was actually the best because it lasted the rest of the phase it was failed in and only strength 6 would instant death a guy. This meant in one game vs tau I just took 4 in a unit and absorbed shooting from a whole gun-line and a fail just meant it would end at the end of the shooting phase (which is all tau had anyway). Once that was done you just took another archon and formed it up to take the enemy fire. It was the most obnoxious anti-gunline thing (esp. the stationary gunlines) I ever did in any game and was a huge boon in 7th. Of course 7th sucked for us overall but I miss trueborn and bikes being useful to that degree and scourge just being useful at all. Chances are by the time I figure out 8th we'll get a new codex or rulebook and everything will change all over again. How typical of this game.

Has anyone tried using Scourges? How do they fair currently?

RedGriefer wrote:
Has anyone tried using Scourges? How do they fair currently?

I've used most types and the issue is that they're fairly expensive and still squishy. Don't expect them to last more than a turn. The main issue is that it's an anti-tank unit in a game where anti-tank/anti-monster needs to be spammed more to deal with vehicles (provided you don't just ignore vehicles and monsters completely). They're also not helped by the limit of 3 unit cards in a 2k points list. Not only all of these but they are mercenaries so don't benefit from any of the sub-faction traits which makes them much worse than they could be.

As far as builds go don't use heat lances on them as they'll never make it close enough and are just out of range if they DS. If they had obsidian rose traits or something it could've helped but heat lances are just not so hot in my opinion. Dark lances would be ok but all infantry mounted dark lances are heavy so if you move you have negative modifiers to hit and quite a few things have negative modifiers in general so you'd be hitting on 5's at that point. Not to mention if you take them you probably want spare bodies and at that point all units end up costing a lot for something very fragile and easy to kill. I've heard haywire can be good but if you want good haywire units you'd probably just go harlequinns and get skyweavers with em instead. Alternatively I hear talos are good with haywire (pre-phoenix rising anyway) although talos have the worst BS of any dark eldar unit. Odd how such an effective unit in combat has alright shooting and is cheap for what it does but cronos are garbage right now. Blasters for scourge work on small scourge squads deep striking. That said an obnoxious and clever enemy will probably have walls of infantry preventing DS zones if they have enough models for it. They could potentially prevent you from shooting at a vehicles you want. Shardcarbine scourge sound fun in theory but the issue with them is that lack of AP means they're terrible against 2+ or 3+ saves. Don't let poisoned weapons fool you. Poisoned damage is still the same as before but wounds on all models went up a lot so don't ever think you can take out a riptide. It's actually better as anti-infantry for lightly armored enemies. Shredders are fairly similar in this regard with scourge. Scourge never live long so maybe shredders are ok with them since they're always going to need to kill infantry and they'll probably die anyway but it's still kind of a waste since they can't clear infantry for more than a turn. The issue being they can't get benefits from flayed skull which again would've helped them a ton. The -1 to armor is good but often an enemy infantry unit is in cover and this is even more annoying with marines and custodes. That said I probably should get rid of my trueborn with shredders as well due to cost per unit in fragile venoms.

So in short if you use them don't give them heat lances but follow my general input. The general issue with scourge is too high of a cost for an army that prefers MSU and cheap units to do MSU with. The thing I notice with dark eldar in general is we don't want to commit something up front and center unless it's cheap and disposable or super tough and fairly well costed (covens units). This is one reason why nobody uses hellions even with point decreases.

My scourges do well. As I am a pressure army, an actual Coven force, target priority does protect the Scourges. I think that and terrain are what get missed when talking Scourges. They've got deeeeecent armor as well. So the question of survivability isnt just a function of stats, but of priority and terrain.

I use a 10 man for carbines, a couple small units for Heat Lances and Blasters. Haywire would be better but my wife misunderstood my instructions when assembling them, so...

That being said, Heat lances work GREAT on multiwound bad guys. Its not ideal against tanks tho, so don't do that unless forced.

I love having that extreme speed in my force. Its just great to have. Plus if you have a Brigade of Coven, you pretty much literally have to take Scourges. So Ive been learning how to utilize them well. That speed is saweet.

Hey guys, I was hoping I could get some constructive advice on how to integrate some dark eldar into my eldar army (and how the mechanics would work). I am not a tourney player, I do enjoy playing and trying to win, but I just dont keep up with the arms race anymore. Anyhow, my eldar force focuses around a 20 man blob of guardians, I also have another 10 man squad and Ill add in squad of rangers to get my 3 troops choices. I usually run some shining spears, wave serpents and I have a unit of shooty wraithguard (also have a wraithknight, wraithlords).

Anyways, I couldnt pass up a good deal, I bought 3 venoms, the codex and a Getting Started box set for $100. My thought was to run 3 5 man squads of warriors in venoms for another battlion. It would give my more static eldar some movement and cheap objective grabbing. So my questions, do I want to use the raider? As the warrior squads are 5 man and the venoms only hold 5, what about the HQs? I would bet I just take 2 archons correct? What equipment? And I want to take the bloody rose right to give my venoms a 6+ FNP? Any advice would be appreciated. I would guess Ill get rid of the 3 bikes and possibly the raider as I want to keep my Dark Eldar force fairly cheap pointwise so I dont lose out on too many eldar models.

Thanks.

DE IMO is great as a cheap chaff killing CP Battalion that can move fast and take objections.

2 Archons, 3 Kabals, 3 venoms is 399pts, if you add a couple guns it'll be more but you don't need them, If you do i would take Shredders on the Kabals.

And its Black Heart you want, Bloody Rose is SoB. Black heart is very strong. 6+++ on vehicles, a 4CP stratagem to stop another stratagem. If you want to use their relic, its rr1's to wound, so 1 Archon will be rr1's to hits/wounds. This is very important if you want Ravagers later on.

You Archons should be cheap, dont need to go crazy, they can be very hit or miss, sometimes tanking 20 wounds, sometimes they die on the first wound. but you can use them for rr1's, sit on objectives (they are cheap enough to do that and cant be shot at, but if they are Snipe a 2++/6+++ makes its a reluctant shot against them), or as a charger to soak up OW/tank a unit for a turn (Re-roll charges always if in Black Heart).