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 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Oh I know but your entire list right now is basically spam dissies with zero variation. In fact that is being very kind to it since it is the exact same unit. I mean i figured rule of 3 per 2k pts was an attempt to prevent this very thing. I realize we're supposed to keep our firepower spread out and do msu as dark eldar but i mean come on man. This will sadly probably be corrected in a faq or something while gw doesnt touch their precious marines at all though.

Well thats also b.c of the Marine meta and how ITC works, and Ravagers/RWJF's went up in points, also they are transports, every army can spam transports and always could, DE has been using Transport spam for many editions and IMO is built with that in mind as a play style, just like IG can take 13 LR's

Triple void raven bombers with Test of Skill surely has some legs. You either have strength 9 void lances wounding most things on 2's, or the dark scythe wounding nearly everything on 2's and 3's, or 4's at worst.

 Elfric wrote:
Triple void raven bombers with Test of Skill surely has some legs. You either have strength 9 void lances wounding most things on 2's, or the dark scythe wounding nearly everything on 2's and 3's, or 4's at worst.

I'm a bit mixed with dark scythe too. It's very, very random and I have tried it. Sometime flat damage is just way better esp. With a weapon strong enough for anti tank and monster but but probably doesn't have good volume for. Also without range boost dark scythe range is pitiful and keeps you to close to what might hurt. Void lance I'm was already trying out you suspected tactic with them. The issue is rule of 3 mostly. It's a good plane with a good weapon, good boost vs monsters and vehicles as long as they have 10 wounds each. It's even made me reconsider taking heat lances again on reaver jet bikes but it only probably wound them on 4. Meanwhile void lance is jus great but sadly you only get 3. Void mine can be nice depending what the drop is but against muliwoumd models its not as sexy as it could be and more simply 1 wound genestealer with inv saves are going down in a flyby unless you have to saves helping you.

For now I think I just use bikes for several reasons. One of which being the assosciated mortal wounds each will do is more controlled. If i launce a void mine at 3 multi wound custodes and 2 get hurt and the fail fnp its only a custode with 2 wounds. If I have enough grav talons mixed with "slashing impact" each squad does an average of 6 mortal wounds which auto get placed all on one custodes and then the next meaning 2 dead custodes per bike squad before i even get into melee which might get thinned out before all of this with shooting. Sadly wych cult mortal wounds obsession trait does not affect vehicles but it's not too bad since a healthy does of haywire will wipe up tougher tanks. My bikes will probably run and shoot at the opponent and only come in for mortal wounds after. i think on paper void raven sounds better with toughness being higher and having minus 1 to be hit but anti tank cant as easily take out bikes esp. A lot of em.dissies would be an oddly good counter to them but I tend not to face dark eldar players besides me. Also reavers can grab objectives and bog down some crappy units in melee that tend to shoot real hard otherwise.

Could be silly to see with two units of 12 reavers for 24 total. All with blasters and grab talons.

------------------------------

So I wanted to put up another post but double posting and all. Anyway I've been wanting to try out forge world dark eldar. I know we only have 2 different units but a few reapers sounds interesting. Sounds like it could be good anti tank right now and the cost doesn't sound too terrible in U.S. dollars. My only issue is handling stuff like riptides. Perhaps enough units with slashing impact can cut those down to size though.

Anyway I think Amish is the best to ask about all this but I appreciate any experience with forge world. Right now the tantalus seems like the closest thing we have to a super heavy or centerpiece model. Shame gw won't just give us a super heavy already.

hi, does Archon give re roll for kabalites and raider if kabalites and archon both in raider?

Rafss wrote:
hi, does Archon give re roll for kabalites and raider if kabalites and archon both in raider?

sadly, no. Models embarked on transports aren't counted as being on the battlefield, therefore, the aura of the archon can't affect them even if hes in the same boat since the distance between them is null.

same thing if the archon is standaing beside the boat. The boat might be within 6" but the models in it are withing null" so the aura doesnt apply

Glad somebody finally posted in here.

So where is everybody at now with their dark eldar armies?

My current list is two 12 model units of reaver jet Bikes (24 total) with toughness boost, 4 venoms with basic warriors in em, 3 dissie ravagers and three 5 man scourge squads with haywire. Currently my last 2 opponents gave up after my turn 2 due to basically not seeing a winnable outcome on their end. That said first list was a fluffy khorne list and a craftworld eldar list with the -1 to hit ability army wide. So yeah it definitely wasn't the super tough armies I face and probably not the most optimal list. I'm interested to see how I'll do vs tau, knights and marines.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Glad somebody finally posted in here.

So where is everybody at now with their dark eldar armies?

My current list is two 12 model units of reaver jet Bikes (24 total) with toughness boost, 4 venoms with basic warriors in em, 3 dissie ravagers and three 5 man scourge squads with haywire. Currently my last 2 opponents gave up after my turn 2 due to basically not seeing a winnable outcome on their end. That said first list was a fluffy khorne list and a craftworld eldar list with the -1 to hit ability army wide. So yeah it definitely wasn't the super tough armies I face and probably not the most optimal list. I'm interested to see how I'll do vs tau, knights and marines.

Not many people are posting becuase we don't have anything new to post about.

How many wytch cult units do you have? You can only take the same drug on multiple units if you have already take all 6 drugs.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So where is everybody at now with their dark eldar armies?

I'm at about 3000 pts, mostly Kabalites (with some wych cults). Highlights include 3 Raiders, 3 Ravagers that can be converted into Raiders, 3 Venoms, 2 Razorwings, a Voidraven, 6 Reaver jetbikes, 10 Mandrakes, and 80 Kabalite warriors (of which less than half are ever on the battlefield at any one time). I'm not planning to expand anymore, unless new units are added or the rules change.

I don't collect Haemonculus Covens. I hear they're effective and I do like their fluff, but their aesthetic isn't for me. I prefer my space elves to be sleek and graceful, not beefy and thuggish.

I have about 2000 pts, of mostly Kabalites supported by some Coven heavy units. I don't like Ravagers or Raiders, so I have a lot of Venoms, and my anti-tank comes from a Blaster & Blast Pistol in each boat, plus anything the Taloi can chip in.

I'm currently painting Drazhar and five Incubi, and I'm pretty certain that GW will respond to my having ordered 10 finecast Mandrakes today, by announcing new plastic kits for them any day now...

I have two more quesions:
1. Do I have to always rolling D6 for Combat Drugs or I can choose ?
2. I need to roll/choose combar drugs for each unit or one roll/choose for whole army?

Rafss wrote:
I have two more quesions:
1. Do I have to always rolling D6 for Combat Drugs or I can choose ?
2. I need to roll/choose combar drugs for each unit or one roll/choose for whole army?

you can either :

-Roll, which allows for duplicate drugs.
-Pick, which doesn't allow duplicates as long as a drug remains unpicked. As soon as you have all 6 drugs assigned to a unit, youre free to spam the same one over and over after. (lets say i have 2 succubi, 3 squads of wyches and 3 squads of jetbikes, i could give painbringer to all the bikes since the other units would be assigned the other drugs).

And the choice is unit per unit, i use magic cards with sharpie on them to distinguish which ones have what

Can you not also mix and match? For example, pick two diffferent Combat Drugs, and roll for a third in the hopes of getting something useful.

 harlokin wrote:
Can you not also mix and match? For example, pick two diffferent Combat Drugs, and roll for a third in the hopes of getting something useful.

RAW you roll unit per unit, with the option of picking instead of rolling.

i'd say that yes you can pick the good ones on the units you want them, then roll for the rest

It's a really inconvenient system, though. Too much bookkeeping.

It would have been nice if one of the custom obsessions from Phoenix Rising had been the ability to just pick whatever.

-Guardsman- wrote:
It's a really inconvenient system, though. Too much bookkeeping.

It would have been nice if one of the custom obsessions from Phoenix Rising had been the ability to just pick whatever.

Yup. It really wouldn't have killed them to simply allow a free choice from the start, and maybe a Strat to change drug mid-game or have a second one.

So another tactic comes to mind. Do you all know about the dissie raider build? Well you know how you have to have wracks as troops spammed to get that many raiders. I was thinking of not just getting dark technomancers but the obsession that allows coven models to do a mortal wound on a 5+ on the charge and possibly have quite a few wrack units inside the raiders with dissies since you're taking them anyway. Basically it's a nasty surprise for any enemies that close in to melee range of the raiders or a way to charge tau riptide units since there isn't a whole lot you can do against something that durable otherwise. The even better part of this is you don't really have to change up the dissie raider build that much to also get this nice build for a 2nd great reason for this build. Keep in mind the big difference between covens and cult is that coven's mortal wound on a 5+ charge effects all enemy units instead of just infantry, bikes and monsters.

-Guardsman- wrote:
It's a really inconvenient system, though. Too much bookkeeping.

It would have been nice if one of the custom obsessions from Phoenix Rising had been the ability to just pick whatever.

No no no, DE can't have nice things, especially the wyches.. You know Reavers, Hellions, etc.. can't be playable, not in 8th! /s

-Guardsman- wrote:
It's a really inconvenient system, though. Too much bookkeeping.

It would have been nice if one of the custom obsessions from Phoenix Rising had been the ability to just pick whatever.

Personally, I wish it worked like 5th, where you applied the same drug to your entire army.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

-Guardsman- wrote:
It's a really inconvenient system, though. Too much bookkeeping.

It would have been nice if one of the custom obsessions from Phoenix Rising had been the ability to just pick whatever.

No no no, DE can't have nice things, especially the wyches.. You know Reavers, Hellions, etc.. can't be playable, not in 8th! /s

We can't exactly have new units either. I think the only things we got in 7th were the void raven (technically had the flyer in 5th but no model) and a new wrack set with only one new weapon option. We haven't had a new reaver kit with more weapon options or the ability to equip each with a special weapon (entirely unlike the other 2 eldar factions) and we are way behind for a super-heavy without going forgeworld. Perhaps even a new mandrake themed unit akin to the grotesques would be nice or some bigger monstrosity for them as well. They could also make mercenaries units better or give us some combined factions stuff so I don't have to get a detachment just because I want to use grotesques and then be forced down a route where I have to choose between 3 sub-factions units just to get the units I want. We also could've done without a points increase to ravagers and razorwing jetfighters. I mean I get they were good but talos are too and they got no points increases and space marines are really good right now.

My biggest gripe is just the lack of new units though and the fact they cut off units and special characters instead of adding anything. Perhaps I shouldn't say anything lest they cut off 2 more units just to re-do scourge but let's be real they won't do that because then they might have to give scourge more and different weapon types. It'll probably be grotesques and they'll give no new weapon options and it'll be in plastic at the same points cost and cost even more money.

Sorry i'm bitter right now. Btw now that Sisters got rebooted who is the new bitter Sisters army? Death Guard? We have to be near the bottom of GW's new unit priority list.

Nah, i'm pretty bitter too, about our codex, what was taken away, why tf are we 3 subfactions, and 8th in general.

But at least we have some good lists that are fully playable and even consider strong.

Omg this is so bad. I didn't even realize incubi aren't sold separately. I never had an urge to get them due to rules and now the only way to get them is with the Phoenix rising set. Gw better get them sold individually and possibly give us something else.

8th might not be great but I still prefer where we are now as compared to 7th ed 40k. Fighting tau was even harder back then. Seriously even my crazy attempt could kill only one stormsurge back then and I'd still lose and that'd be my high point in 7th. Only thing I miss back then is how reavers were to an extent with cluster caltrops and being able to move so fast even if I had to give up shooting to do it.

I agree. I think the 3 subfactions idea was an interesting attempt to incorporate fluff elements, but we just don't have enough unit options to make it work.

We are certainly fun to play, and it wouldn't take too much of a tweak/addition to really improve us.

 harlokin wrote:
I agree. I think the 3 subfactions idea was an interesting attempt to incorporate fluff elements, but we just don't have enough unit options to make it work.

We are certainly fun to play, and it wouldn't take too much of a tweak/addition to really improve us.

But the fluff is the opposite for the most part, many of the Archon's has Wyches and Wracks under them, heck a lot of the Archons are Reaver and Hellion specialist with lots of them as their core army.

Its not fluffy, its GW being stupid. (Sorry it makes me mad b.c it goes against everything DE, where you follow the strong and try to become the strong by any means regardless of how).

I agree, I guess it just seems to me like they did it with good intentions, but it doesn't really work or help in practice.

Oddly, I'm more aggravated by the inexplicable 'close combat options' they gave Kabals in PA; it just felt so slapdash and disinterested.

What Kabal obsession do you most often choose? Last time my favorite obsession is Poison Tongue. In fun games I use 20 Kabalite Warrioirs with 4 Blaster/Shredder in deep strike.

 harlokin wrote:
Oddly, I'm more aggravated by the inexplicable 'close combat options' they gave Kabals in PA; it just felt so slapdash and disinterested.

Look on the bright side - at least we got some nice new relics and warlord traits.

Oh.

Rafss wrote:
What Kabal obsession do you most often choose? Last time my favorite obsession is Poison Tongue. In fun games I use 20 Kabalite Warrioirs with 4 Blaster/Shredder in deep strike.

I pretty much always run Flayed Skull, using a lot of Venoms, with a Blaster and a Blast Pistol in each one. I don't like mixing Kabals within an army.

 vipoid wrote:

Look on the bright side - at least we got some nice new relics and warlord traits.

Oh.

Rafss wrote:
What Kabal obsession do you most often choose? Last time my favorite obsession is Poison Tongue. In fun games I use 20 Kabalite Warrioirs with 4 Blaster/Shredder in deep strike.

I used to use Poison Tongue all the time but I just got tired of how crap it was.

- I love the idea of the Soul Seeker (it was the main thing that drew me to Poison Tongue) and turning an Archon into a character-sniper is great fun. However, in my experience it simply doesn't work in practise. The profile just isn't strong enough to threaten anything outside of the very weakest characters. It seems like it should be Pistol 3. Or at the very least should be able to benefit from Poison Tongue's reroll 1s ability. The fact that this doesn't apply to Poison Tongue's own unique artefact is just asinine.

- The Warlord trait is worthless.

- The stratagem is potentially good but I rarely ever found myself needing to use it. Most of my stuff is fast enough that I can just redeploy without needing to spend 2CPs.

- I like that the faction bonus works outside of transports and for melee. However, it's also very weak and Kabal have almost no melee units anyway. I often used to run an Archon with 3 Lhamaeans (since wounding on 2s, rerolling 1s, and causing Mortal Wounds on 4s was pretty nice). However, since I can only ever have 3 Lhamaeans in my entire army, I'm basically taking this trait to help all of 3 models.


Not too long ago I switched to Flayed Skull and I don't see myself ever changing back. You just get so much more from the trait alone. You start off with rerolling 1s to hit for all Rapid Fire weapons, so right off the bat you're getting almost the exact same benefit as Poison Tongue. Granted, it doesn't work for pistols or melee but both of those things are pretty niche for Kabal and even Poison Tongue doesn't buff any pistol actually worth buffing. The only meaningful drawback is that you don't get the bonuses when disembarked (or, more likely, when your transport is now a smoking crater). However, in my experience the other bonuses from Flayed Skull more than make up for this drawback. +3"M for every vehicle is very useful and gives more of an edge than one might think. However, for me, the real benefit is Ignores Cover on every weapon on a vehicle or being fired from inside a vehicle. Suddenly, MEQs in cover aren't saving against poison on a 2+. Vehicles in cover aren't getting any bonus against Disintegrators, Dark Lances or Blasters.

In terms of other stuff, the Stratagem is pretty good and the Warlord Trait is fine, though I prefer Soulthirst. I quite like the artefact for giving a Warlord Archon a more reliable defence than the godawful Shadowfield. However, I've all but stopped using Archons as my warlord as I find them boring and lacklustre. Hence, I'm more likely to just give an Archon the Djin Blade and throw them at an enemy with absolutely no regard for their survival.

The only thing I miss about Poison Tongue is the Soul Seeker. However, I just got fed up with this artefact completely failing to do anything, especially given the opportunity cost for being able to take it at all.

The problem is Flayed Skull is the only Kabal that rewards you for playing Kabals like they should be played. Their vehicles get a speed boost, they get a decent amount of rerolls from the Archon they wouldn't be getting it from, because reasons, and then there's the general benefit of ignoring cover, already a strong trait. It's several benefits in one package.

 vipoid wrote:

 harlokin wrote:
Oddly, I'm more aggravated by the inexplicable 'close combat options' they gave Kabals in PA; it just felt so slapdash and disinterested.

Look on the bright side - at least we got some nice new relics and warlord traits.

Oh.

Don't forget the new stratagems we got in PA too!

Man being in the first book hurt, GW has added soooooo much more value to each subsequent book. On the plus side my Tempestus Scions mono-force got a ton of stuff in the latest book. Doesn't help my poor Drukhari though. It's odd a sub-faction got more attention and stuff than a full codex. Oh wait, imperium keyword, that makes sense now.