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Fafnir wrote: And what of the Cronos? Any buffs to that one? Or is Talos the clear and obvious pick?
+1A, -37 points according to the Splintermind podcast.
So, you may as well include one for the buff aura. It's super cheap, and not easy to kill for the points, especially in the 4++ subfaction.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Cronos is down to 65 points, but the spirit probe ability is a 5 point upgrade, so really 70 points. Also it is BS 3+ now. It is still attacks 3 unless I'm missing something. Second gun is a 10 point upgrade. So 80 points max.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/05 18:27:27
Fafnir wrote: Honestly does not seem worth it. Especially since I'll have a Farseer casting doom anyway.
I am kind of in agreement, but I am wary of the fallacy of assuming that if something doesn't stack up to one of the best units in the game at its job, it is unusable crap. There's a lot of reasons why you might want a Cronos over a Farseer, most notably that a farseer is going to mean you need a separate detachment most of the time. Also, the Cronos' buff does not require a psychic test, nor is it only limited to one target. The Torturer's Craft stratagem also somewhat limits the utility of Doom in a coven army, because you can just replicate its effects whenever you want for a couple CP, no test needed.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Fafnir wrote: Honestly does not seem worth it. Especially since I'll have a Farseer casting doom anyway.
In fairness, not everyone is going to be playing Eldar Soup.
The Cronos might not be worth it anyway, but still.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
Even if I didn't run with a Farseer (and I intend on developing the army to reach that at some point), I still wouldn't use the Cronos based on the above appraisal. Maybe if you were running a lot of footslogging coven stuff, but that's still asking a lot when you could just throw another Talos in there.
Fafnir wrote: Even if I didn't run with a Farseer (and I intend on developing the army to reach that at some point), I still wouldn't use the Cronos based on the above appraisal. Maybe if you were running a lot of footslogging coven stuff, but that's still asking a lot when you could just throw another Talos in there.
Honestly, i have 2 Cronos, 5 Talos and i dont feel like playing them lol.
I will tho play some fun Coven lists that will use those 7, but i also have 30 Wracks and 20 Grots, but for tri cult i dont think Cronos re worth it at all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/05 20:29:50
Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Peatreed wrote:To 'The only jp' - that was the most dumbest post in the history of dumb!
The only jp wrote: Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Four per detachment if the detachment has one or more Archons. No way to take them by themselves, and it doesn't appear there is a way for them to use force org slots.
The only jp wrote: Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Four per detachment if the detachment has one or more Archons. No way to take them by themselves, and it doesn't appear there is a way for them to use force org slots.
Are they still Characters?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
The only jp wrote: Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Four per detachment if the detachment has one or more Archons. No way to take them by themselves, and it doesn't appear there is a way for them to use force org slots.
Are they still Characters?
Negative. Though ti seems they got a points drop. And Lhamaeans do mortal wounds on 4+ in CC now.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/05 23:54:02
Here's a video going through the codex entirerly, including points cost
And jesus christ, yeah grots have -2 ap cleavers and 4 wounds now, and they cost only 35 pts now, thats extremely good, take like 5 of them backed up by a prophets of the flesh haemonculus and you have 20 toughness 6 wounds with 4+ (reroll 1's) invul save.
The only jp wrote: Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Answering this since I'm currently wading through looking for changes while authoring the BS data file for the codex (previous maintainer vanished)
Court of the Archon works the same as before: if you have no archon, they simply use detachment slots as normal. if you have an archon, they don't take up detachment slots, but you are not limited to four. you could in fact take 30 sslyth from a single archon if your really really wanted to.
So sslyth party vans ahoy?
Before people ask about the BS file: Aim is to release when the codex does as always, some minor information might be missing in V1 simply because there is a ton of it to enter, and a lot of minor changes to catch.
Bonus Round: the list of items that had to be given an index tag, and are still usable with the designer commentary but are no longer in the codex:
Trueborn
Bloodbrides
Demiklaives for incubi
Crucible of Malediction on Haemonculus
Blaster on the Archon
A WoT option for grotesques
Extra Silliness:
Beast units only require one beastmaster now to take any number.
The only jp wrote: Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Answering this since I'm currently wading through looking for changes while authoring the BS data file for the codex (previous maintainer vanished)
Court of the Archon works the same as before: if you have no archon, they simply use detachment slots as normal. if you have an archon, they don't take up detachment slots, but you are not limited to four. you could in fact take 30 sslyth from a single archon if your really really wanted to.
So sslyth party vans ahoy?
. . .
Extra Silliness:
Beast units only require one beastmaster now to take any number.
Unfortunately you missed the same rule I did on my first glance at the codex. On page 114, on a box off to the left titled "Matched Play Rules" there are additional rules concerning both beasts and courts that are not listed in the datasheets limiting courts to 4 per detachment that include 1 or more archons, and 3 beasts units per detachment that includes one or more beastmasters. Additionally the wording of the court of the archon and beastmaster rules has changed slightly. It no longer offers any room on whether or not you CAN take these units without taking up force org slots. Now it says they simply do not take up slots if your army is battle-forged.
The only jp wrote: Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Answering this since I'm currently wading through looking for changes while authoring the BS data file for the codex (previous maintainer vanished)
Court of the Archon works the same as before: if you have no archon, they simply use detachment slots as normal. if you have an archon, they don't take up detachment slots, but you are not limited to four. you could in fact take 30 sslyth from a single archon if your really really wanted to.
So sslyth party vans ahoy?
Before people ask about the BS file: Aim is to release when the codex does as always, some minor information might be missing in V1 simply because there is a ton of it to enter, and a lot of minor changes to catch.
Bonus Round: the list of items that had to be given an index tag, and are still usable with the designer commentary but are no longer in the codex:
Trueborn
Bloodbrides
Demiklaives for incubi
Crucible of Malediction on Haemonculus
Blaster on the Archon
A WoT option for grotesques
Extra Silliness:
Beast units only require one beastmaster now to take any number.
razorwings notably lost 4 attacks (down to 4) but gained -1 ap on the attacks.
Let me help you out with a few things that might be easy to miss for Battlescribe:
-The Haemonculus can now take an ichor injector IN ADDITION to his other weapons, and it no longer appears on the weapon list that it used to on the index (so Wracks can no longer have ichor injectors)
-The Talos now has two armswaps rather than one. He can exchange one Scalpel for a TL liquifier or an Ichor, and the other Scalpel for a chainflail or a glove.
-The Succubus can now take Wych Cult weaponry, swapping both her weapons for it.
Blackie wrote: It was stated on dakkadakka that grots have become 1pt more expensive, I'd really love a points drop on them as well
Base 1pt more base but the weapons are cheaper, 0 and 3 pts compare to 1 and 6? (I forget what they are now but its more)
So they're basically a few points points cheaper now? And with the new limitations about their wargear what additional tools can they bring?
They can swap their cleavers for liquifiers. No additional tools. One positive note (for grots at least) is that their flesh gauntlets are no longer Poison, which means they don't go down to 4+ against targets that would normally be easier for the S5 grots to wound. its now just a S:user AP0 weapon that does a mortal on a 6 vs non-vehicles. This does make the Flesh Gauntlet a no-go on haemies or acothysts, but nobody was taking it anyway.
net, Grots are 5 points cheaper than index with the mandatory weapon build.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/06 13:42:34
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Let me help you out with a few things that might be easy to miss for Battlescribe:
-The Haemonculus can now take an ichor injector IN ADDITION to his other weapons, and it no longer appears on the weapon list that it used to on the index (so Wracks can no longer have ichor injectors)
-The Talos now has two armswaps rather than one. He can exchange one Scalpel for a TL liquifier or an Ichor, and the other Scalpel for a chainflail or a glove.
-The Succubus can now take Wych Cult weaponry, swapping both her weapons for it.
I did get those, they were actually pretty easy to pick out. The real issues are all the tiny minor wording changes.
I like that the Haemonculs can get an Ichor Injector as an extra now.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
The only jp wrote: Can the court of the archon models only be taken as the specific court outside of force org slots, or can they be used as cheap units to fill a brigade?
Answering this since I'm currently wading through looking for changes while authoring the BS data file for the codex (previous maintainer vanished)
Court of the Archon works the same as before: if you have no archon, they simply use detachment slots as normal. if you have an archon, they don't take up detachment slots, but you are not limited to four. you could in fact take 30 sslyth from a single archon if your really really wanted to.
So sslyth party vans ahoy?
Before people ask about the BS file: Aim is to release when the codex does as always, some minor information might be missing in V1 simply because there is a ton of it to enter, and a lot of minor changes to catch.
Bonus Round: the list of items that had to be given an index tag, and are still usable with the designer commentary but are no longer in the codex:
Trueborn Bloodbrides Demiklaives for incubi Crucible of Malediction on Haemonculus Blaster on the Archon A WoT option for grotesques
Extra Silliness: Beast units only require one beastmaster now to take any number.
razorwings notably lost 4 attacks (down to 4) but gained -1 ap on the attacks.
Your list is funny (and like 1st round of DE nerf funny), but i thought there was a limitation to Number of beasts you could take? And i thought RWF also were 4+ to hit now? I'll be getting the codex "soon" so i'll know so fun instead of being told things... man i cant wait.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/04/06 17:41:23
I think the confusion stems from the fact that they put the limitation on the number of beasts/courtesans on Page 114 with the army-wide rules, instead of the rules on the datasheets of the court and beastmasters.
You cannot take 156 razorwings in a detachment (in matched play at least) because there is a maximum of 3 beast units in a detachment and 4 court units in a detachment, per sidebar on page 114.
RWF are indeed 4+ to hit with their 4 attacks. My impression is that they are utter trash in the new 'dex, tbh, the only beast I would consider using is Clawed Fiends, which seem like a solid anti-heavy choice to take in a wych detachment. I guess if you're just taking them as pure chaff they're fine, but like, we have warriors for that at 6ppm.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
vipoid wrote: I like that the Haemonculs can get an Ichor Injector as an extra now.
Yeah, the killiest build for the haemonculus is actually fairly scary. Ichor injector/EC whip, with the +1 to wound trait and Coven of 12, you get a guy who throws 4 attacks that hit on 2s, wound on 3s, AP-3 D2, and 1 attack that hits on 2, wounds on 3 rerollable, AP-2 D1 that crits for D3 mortals on a 5+.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/06 17:34:36
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Well, file should be out in a couple hours once the data platform picks it up but may have some text on weapons in index state because of the way the file was structured compared to the standards we use now
Because I know someone will do this, Beast unit/courts restrictions are only enforced if you select gametype: matched
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/07 08:14:16
WindstormSCR wrote: Well, file should be out in a couple hours once the data platform picks it up but may have some text on weapons in index state because of the way the file was structured compared to the standards we use now
Because I know someone will do this, Beast unit/courts restrictions are only enforced if you select gametype: matched
WindstormSCR wrote: Well, file should be out in a couple hours once the data platform picks it up but may have some text on weapons in index state because of the way the file was structured compared to the standards we use now
Because I know someone will do this, Beast unit/courts restrictions are only enforced if you select gametype: matched
I'm sure I speak not only for myself when I say thanks a ton for your work! It is appreciated.
Wow, grotesques are really 5 pts cheaper now, 35 each.
Also the grav talons and cluster caltrops are a bit cheaper, 3 points each, and the bomber missiles which are not free but 10 points. The bomber kitted with missiles is now cheaper than the stock index version at 165 points.
A bit disappointed on the talos gauntlet which is not 2x strenght but just +2S AP-3 DamageD3 but also gives a nasty -1 to hit penalty (like p.fists) and it costs 15 points. It doesn't seem that good compared to the 4 points of the macro scalpels (+1S AP-2 damage flat 2) which also grant +1A if you have two. The stock talos is just 103 points, even 5 points cheaper if you give it the splinter pods as ranged weapon. With the coven buffs it looks quite good, I'm looking forward to field all my monsters once again. Maybe not the cronos though, it still looks quite lackluster for its price.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/07 11:08:11
WindstormSCR wrote: Well, file should be out in a couple hours once the data platform picks it up but may have some text on weapons in index state because of the way the file was structured compared to the standards we use now
Because I know someone will do this, Beast unit/courts restrictions are only enforced if you select gametype: matched
Is this for Battlescribe?
Blackie wrote: Maybe not the cronos though, it still looks quite lackluster for its price.
The Cronos is very weird. It seems designed primarily for shooting, but its buffs are melee focused.
Also, in spite of its ranged weapons both being designed to steal/siphon life, that ability only works for its melee attacks. Not only that, but it can only ever restore 1 piddling wound, no matter how many models it manages to kill.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
WindstormSCR wrote: Well, file should be out in a couple hours once the data platform picks it up but may have some text on weapons in index state because of the way the file was structured compared to the standards we use now
Because I know someone will do this, Beast unit/courts restrictions are only enforced if you select gametype: matched
Is this for Battlescribe?
Blackie wrote: Maybe not the cronos though, it still looks quite lackluster for its price.
The Cronos is very weird. It seems designed primarily for shooting, but its buffs are melee focused.
Also, in spite of its ranged weapons both being designed to steal/siphon life, that ability only works for its melee attacks. Not only that, but it can only ever restore 1 piddling wound, no matter how many models it manages to kill.
Cronos is melee tho, flamers are anti melee and helps melee units. Sitting with Wrack,s Grots, Talos, etc.. to buff them and get in a few shots while staying out or in CC as you wish.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/04/07 11:54:28
Cronos is melee tho, flamers are anti melee and helps melee units.
Sorry but I don't consider something with 3 WS4 attacks at mediocre strength with garbage AP and damage to be a melee unit.
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
15k+
Emperor's Spears 2500
Beastmen 10k
