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 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I get what you guys were saying about the Parasite's Kiss not being worth the points now. It isn't terrible though. Regaining wounds is always pretty decent.

Oh, it's not bad at all - and I agree that regaining wounds is nice (not to mention fun).

The issue is that it's competing with a lot of other good artefacts, which effectively all have the same cost.

Wait - Trueborns are 11 pts ? Why did I hear or read somewhere that they were 20 pts ?

Hell yeah they're way more attractive that way. I was running the maths on Scourges with Shredders and thought they were good enough, but Trueborns with Shredders in a Venom perhaps ? With Flayed Skull they wouldn't get rerolls, but they'd ignore cover. Obsidian Rose in a Venom then ?

Shredders are our best ranged anti-MEQ weapons for infantry if I'm right ? Splinter weaponry gets more interesting the greater the Toughness but the lack of AP poses a problem. So I'd use Shredders to deal with more armoured foes. Beyond T6 there isn't that much infantry (for the rerolles to wound) so it looks perfect for that role.

 Aaranis wrote:
Wait - Trueborns are 11 pts ? Why did I hear or read somewhere that they were 20 pts ?

Hell yeah they're way more attractive that way. I was running the maths on Scourges with Shredders and thought they were good enough, but Trueborns with Shredders in a Venom perhaps ? With Flayed Skull they wouldn't get rerolls, but they'd ignore cover. Obsidian Rose in a Venom then ?

Shredders are our best ranged anti-MEQ weapons for infantry if I'm right ? Splinter weaponry gets more interesting the greater the Toughness but the lack of AP poses a problem. So I'd use Shredders to deal with more armoured foes. Beyond T6 there isn't that much infantry (for the rerolles to wound) so it looks perfect for that role.

Well, they're 19pts with a Shredder so I assume thats what was being referred to.

Thats a good point about the ingores cover benefit, I'd assumed it only applied to RF weapons like the re-roll 1's do, but looking again thats a separate sentence, and the +3" move on the Venom would be very usefull.

 vipoid wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
I get what you guys were saying about the Parasite's Kiss not being worth the points now. It isn't terrible though. Regaining wounds is always pretty decent.

Oh, it's not bad at all - and I agree that regaining wounds is nice (not to mention fun).

The issue is that it's competing with a lot of other good artefacts, which effectively all have the same cost.

Yeah, I am actually looking at using the Soul-Seeker instead now. Being able to snipe characters is pretty decent(even without LOS?!). The Armour of Misery is decent too. I am going to make a custom Kabal, so it really depends on which one of the official Kabal rules I want to use.

So for Kabalites, do I want to use a Blaster or a Shredder? They will be in 5-man groups in a Venom (two identical groups, I think). The 2x Splinter Cannon Venom seems like it will do the Infantry shredding job pretty well on its own. I worry more about vehicles (gonna get two Ravagers, I think).

I am going to probably convert the Shredder into a Blaster at this point.

Also, melee weapons on the Sybarites, yay or nay? I am thinking Agonizers. They are cheap and decent enough. But I suppose I can go all out with Splinter Rifles and a Blaster for the squad. I suppose I could even give him/her an Agonizer to go with the Splinter Rifle.

 Imateria wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
Wait - Trueborns are 11 pts ? Why did I hear or read somewhere that they were 20 pts ?

Hell yeah they're way more attractive that way. I was running the maths on Scourges with Shredders and thought they were good enough, but Trueborns with Shredders in a Venom perhaps ? With Flayed Skull they wouldn't get rerolls, but they'd ignore cover. Obsidian Rose in a Venom then ?

Shredders are our best ranged anti-MEQ weapons for infantry if I'm right ? Splinter weaponry gets more interesting the greater the Toughness but the lack of AP poses a problem. So I'd use Shredders to deal with more armoured foes. Beyond T6 there isn't that much infantry (for the rerolles to wound) so it looks perfect for that role.

Well, they're 19pts with a Shredder so I assume thats what was being referred to.

Thats a good point about the ingores cover benefit, I'd assumed it only applied to RF weapons like the re-roll 1's do, but looking again thats a separate sentence, and the +3" move on the Venom would be very usefull.

I heard 20 pts base, for some reason. But whatever, I see the truth now.

I do believe Flayed Skull is one of the best traits for Venoms, dual splinter cannons that rerolls 1s to hit, ignores cover and moves 19" looks good on paper. Other nices traits would be Red Grief when playing with a CC crew so as to be able to engage as fast as possible (really want to paint a Ferrari logo on a pimped Venom for an Archon and his rich superficial friends), or the 6+++ from Black Heart, although I don't believe Venoms are made to last. You'll either have first turn and send them in the face of your opponent fast, or try to hide it and hope it doesn't get blasted in one go.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Yeah, I am actually looking at using the Soul-Seeker instead now. Being able to snipe characters is pretty decent(even without LOS?!).

I'm planning to use the Soul Seeker as well. I'm tempted to try a sort of loner Archon, who snipes at characters from behind walls and such.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

So for Kabalites, do I want to use a Blaster or a Shredder? They will be in 5-man groups in a Venom (two identical groups, I think). The 2x Splinter Cannon Venom seems like it will do the Infantry shredding job pretty well on its own. I worry more about vehicles (gonna get two Ravagers, I think).

I am going to probably convert the Shredder into a Blaster at this point.

Shredders are decent now, but Blasters are still my weapon of choice. A lot of our guns need 6s to wound vehicles, so I prefer having some anti-vehicle guns to balance it out.

Regarding Venoms, the extra Splinter Cannon might not be worth it anymore. Especially if you're planning to get within 12" (so that the passengers can rapid fire), then you're paying 10pts for 2 extra splinter shots. It's up to you, of course, but it's definitely not the auto-take it was in 7th.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Also, melee weapons on the Sybarites, yay or nay? I am thinking Agonizers. They are cheap and decent enough. But I suppose I can go all out with Splinter Rifles and a Blaster for the squad. I suppose I could even give him/her an Agonizer to go with the Splinter Rifle.

Might depend on what Kabal you go with. If you choose Poison Tongue then you'll be rerolling 1s to-wound in melee with the Agoniser. Not a huge increase, but still. If you're planning to use your Kabalites quite aggressively, then it's definitely worth considering, I think.

If nothing else, I think we can probably afford to risk wasting a few points on fun upgrades.

Holy crap is this thread slowing down any? Anyway i'm gonna fix up some of my scourge to have shredders. I think it should work with reavers charging a melee horde after the shredder scourge do their work. I should have enough for 3 squads of shredder scourge.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Holy crap is this thread slowing down any? Anyway i'm gonna fix up some of my scourge to have shredders. I think it should work with reavers charging a melee horde after the shredder scourge do their work. I should have enough for 3 squads of shredder scourge.

Its a new "good" DE codex they are like Tyranids where there hasnt been a good one since 5th ed (many say 5th nids was bad compare to 4th, yes this is true but at least it was playable and you could have fun with it).

Remember that Reavers main weapon "Bladevanes" is fix Strength at 4, so dont take Agoniser or +1S things, a PW can be used still, but you are now Str 3 base

Oh i know bladevanes are set at str 4 ap 1. I've got the reavers mostly for mop up duty whereas the shredders do the bulk horde killing.

I should probably use a different unit but we'll see. It's mostly all i have on hand if i can get the shredder guns popped on some of the other scourge.

Venoms with 6+++ are surprisingly resilient. It takes on average 10 lance shots to drop a black heart venom.

8th edition has really benefited dark eldar vehicles. The change to wound chart is amazing for them, as most of the time t5 is just as good as t7. Against most dedicated anti tank stuff S8+ they will still be wounded on 3s, same as T7, and against small arms they still get wounded on 5s, same as t7. The big disadvantage is at S6 but that's proven as effective as it was previously due to not wounding T4 on 2s and not being able to easily glance through vehicle hull points.
The 4+ save compared to 3+ makes them succeptable to small arms, but again no real difference against dedicated anti tank. Then the 5++ puts them well above most other tanks for surviving anti tank shots.
The fact that they are 75 or 80 points each means you can field a chunk of them. Dropping 10+ raider equivilants is easy to do, and eating through 100 t5 4+/5++/6+++ wounds before they are in your lines is no easy feat.

So i just played a 2k points game vs an infantry imperial guard list with every guard unit as veterans, 2 units of 3 psykers each, a culexus assassin and 6 quad guns. I got first turn. In about 2 turns i destroyed about 80% of his army and i wasn't fully done with my 2nd turn before i had to leave. Admittedly i got something about reavers wrong and when he charged me though i could leave combat i wasn't able to charge more of his guys. I did that in the game i had but even still he was pretty thoroughly whipped. So much so he looked frustrated and i felt bad for him.

Shredders, reavers and the wyches just destroyed that army. Disintegrators on ravagers also helped. I only lost maybe a 5 man squad of scourge with 4 shredders and then a 10 man squad of scourge with 4 shredders. All the vehicles lived and barely took damage except the raider which only had 2 wounds left. Only lost maybe 4 of my 12 bikes all in one squad. I would've had 6 model bike squads but limits prevented it. Other than that most of everything was untouched.

Anyway i'm not sure if i just had a really good list to face his list, if dark eldar are good against imperial guard and gun-lines now or if dark eldar are stupidly strong. I get the feeling lots of 6-9 model reaver units to clog up enemy gun-lines turn 1 is gonna be huge. Either way Dark Eldar are GOOD! I'll see how we fare against other armies but i felt dirty with that game.

Blasters or non blasters on reavers?

I am planing on running two 9 bike groups of reavers. Alongside a 20 man unit of helions. They are all red grief with kabalites backup.

I am putting 3 blasters on on of the reaver groups. But should I put 3 blasters on the other group as well? 17 points per blaster is a lot. I expect them to die quite fast once they start charging things. It almost double the cost of the reaver.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
So i just played a 2k points game vs an infantry imperial guard list with every guard unit as veterans, 2 units of 3 psykers each, a culexus assassin and 6 quad guns. I got first turn. In about 2 turns i destroyed about 80% of his army and i wasn't fully done with my 2nd turn before i had to leave. Admittedly i got something about reavers wrong and when he charged me though i could leave combat i wasn't able to charge more of his guys. I did that in the game i had but even still he was pretty thoroughly whipped. So much so he looked frustrated and i felt bad for him.

Shredders, reavers and the wyches just destroyed that army. Disintegrators on ravagers also helped. I only lost maybe a 5 man squad of scourge with 4 shredders and then a 10 man squad of scourge with 4 shredders. All the vehicles lived and barely took damage except the raider which only had 2 wounds left. Only lost maybe 4 of my 12 bikes all in one squad. I would've had 6 model bike squads but limits prevented it. Other than that most of everything was untouched.

Anyway i'm not sure if i just had a really good list to face his list, if dark eldar are good against imperial guard and gun-lines now or if dark eldar are stupidly strong. I get the feeling lots of 6-9 model reaver units to clog up enemy gun-lines turn 1 is gonna be huge. Either way Dark Eldar are GOOD! I'll see how we fare against other armies but i felt dirty with that game.

You can spend CP to charge after falling back so if you had CP left over just count it as the stratagem for now and remember it for next time.

 Niiai wrote:
Blasters or non blasters on reavers?

I am planing on running two 9 bike groups of reavers. Alongside a 20 man unit of helions. They are all red grief with kabalites backup.

I am putting 3 blasters on on of the reaver groups. But should I put 3 blasters on the other group as well? 17 points per blaster is a lot. I expect them to die quite fast once they start charging things. It almost double the cost of the reaver.

I've had no chance to field test with them yet, but I think it would be worth it because you add a totally new threat level to the unit. Yeah if you advance is only a 50/50 chance to hit, but even just 1 blaster is a big threat against vehicles and 3 in a 9 man can reliably be a threat to your foe. I mean for one more point you could have one more reaver which is not going to outshine the kill factor of that blaster.

Depends what's in the rest of your army whether you go blasters on reavers. I personally think there are better places to put blasters and keeping the reavers aw a cheap tie up unit. They are too fragile imo. A blaster in a venom or raider seems like a much better idea.
But if you are going pure wych cult then they are probably your best source of blasters

I dont like any upgrades on my reavers, blasters/lances etc.. will most times be 4+ instead of 3+ to hit and you'll be in combat the rest of the times.

Except for grav talons right?

Nope 1-2 additional wounds for 6-9pts once a game isnt something i care about.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Nope 1-2 additional wounds for 6-9pts once a game isnt something i care about.

IDK 9 points for two is 1.5 mortal wounds on average which if you kill like anything above a guardsmen you are getting your points worth and that is assuming you only charge once.

I agree. For mortal wounds it is good value. However I understand not taking them. Its half a kabalite warrior squad or some upgrades on other units. The advantage of the codex being such good value.

So what are our dedicated anti-tank options (so, T7) ?

- Ravagers with Dark Lances of course;
- Raiders with a Dark Lance;
- Trueborns with Blasters (in a Venom);
- Scourges with Haywire or Blasters;
- Hellions from Cult of Cursed Blade, drugged up on overdosed Grave Lotus;
- Talos with Macro-Scalpels;
- Voidravens

My preferences being Scourges because I just love Scourges, blaster Trueborns because of the mobility (free to go where they need to shoot), and the Raiders just because I'd love to play many Raiders. Might grab a Ravager at some point too. Is the Disintegrator Cannon that good ? I feel like we already have loads of choices for dealing with elite units.

Dis cannons perform decent, doing 1.11111 wound compared to 1.55555 in comparison to the dark lance. Against t8 (not as common) and anything with an invulnerable save they are almost identical

Wyldcarde wrote:I agree. For mortal wounds it is good value. However I understand not taking them. Its half a kabalite warrior squad or some upgrades on other units. The advantage of the codex being such good value.

The past 3 games my 9 Reavers (3x3 units) have won me my games, but not b.c of damage, but objective grabbers, and tying up key units, if they did 2 extra wounds, it wouldnt have matter b.c 2 wounds on a tank doesnt do anything, i just see no value in "maybe" doing 1 or 2 wounds, especially on a unit that might not be in melee all game, each game i have had 1 unit never in melee.

Wyldcarde wrote:Dis cannons perform decent, doing 1.11111 wound compared to 1.55555 in comparison to the dark lance. Against t8 (not as common) and anything with an invulnerable save they are almost identical

Yeah, Dis cannons are amazing, i am for sure replacing all my Ravagers, RWJF and Raiders with them, i'll leave Lance to my Blasters.

So you have gone full dis cannon? I'm contemplating leaving ravagers with 1 d lance each as the ranged d6 damage dealer seems useful. How many blasters do you usually run?

But yeah did cannons seem great. Except against wave serpents...

Wyldcarde wrote:
So you have gone full dis cannon? I'm contemplating leaving ravagers with 1 d lance each as the ranged d6 damage dealer seems useful. How many blasters do you usually run?

But yeah did cannons seem great. Except against wave serpents...

Well everything is bad against WS's honestly, they just take more fire power no matter what. -1 to hit (if advance and took), -1 damage, 3+, 6+++ is really strong, they are made to survive. At least we have enough fire power to take down a couple if we wanted too.

Now i dont go full DIssie, my Raiders are Lances and i have Blasters, just my RWJF's and Ravagers are now Dissie.

 Niiai wrote:
Blasters or non blasters on reavers?

I am planing on running two 9 bike groups of reavers. Alongside a 20 man unit of helions. They are all red grief with kabalites backup.

I am putting 3 blasters on on of the reaver groups. But should I put 3 blasters on the other group as well? 17 points per blaster is a lot. I expect them to die quite fast once they start charging things. It almost double the cost of the reaver.

I like 2-3 blasters on a large unit of 9-12 bikers. Usually 3 man squads want to tarpit something or reach some objective. Bigger units instead can use the stratagem to cause mortal wounds when flying over enemy units and they can benefit from firing and falling back, thanks to another stratagem.

But I give blasters to my reavers only if I have some spared points, I don't think they're necessary. Especially if you already have lots of anti tank in a kabal battallion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aaranis wrote:
So what are our dedicated anti-tank options (so, T7) ?

- Ravagers with Dark Lances of course;
- Raiders with a Dark Lance;
- Trueborns with Blasters (in a Venom);
- Scourges with Haywire or Blasters;
- Hellions from Cult of Cursed Blade, drugged up on overdosed Grave Lotus;
- Talos with Macro-Scalpels;
- Voidravens

My preferences being Scourges because I just love Scourges, blaster Trueborns because of the mobility (free to go where they need to shoot), and the Raiders just because I'd love to play many Raiders. Might grab a Ravager at some point too. Is the Disintegrator Cannon that good ? I feel like we already have loads of choices for dealing with elite units.

I also like kabalites with blasters spam. The min unit in a venom with a blaster is 112 points, I usually bring 3-4 of them. Also 10 kabalites with 2 blasters in a raider with dark lance are a decent source of anti tank.

 Blackie wrote:
I also like kabalites with blasters spam. The min unit in a venom with a blaster is 112 points, I usually bring 3-4 of them. Also 10 kabalites with 2 blasters in a raider with dark lance are a decent source of anti tank.

You mean 5 Warriors in a Venom with a single blaster ? Doesn't seem worth the investment to me, I think I'll use Venoms for Trueborns and CC characters.

Yes I thought about running with 1 blaster and 1 splinter cannon in a Raider for each 10 men squad, but running Flayed Skull, the efficiency and lethality of the unit is at max when using 10 Warriors with 1 splinter cannon and splinter racks. That way I reroll the 1s to hit, and dish out 11,09 wounds to save on average.

The thing Trueborns in a Venom have against Scourges for a blaster squad role is that they're tougher to kill, can still DS for 1 CP, and reduces deployments on the table, while bringing more splinter weaponry to the table. 177 pts vs 128 pts, though. I wonder if I won't just take both, but use haywire for the Scourges.

Dissies are good and shredders are alright. I think shredders have potential if you have lots of bikes ready to charge the enemy after you hit with shredders.

Also i had 1 CP and not 2 but at the time it may have been 2 so it may have worked. God we have so many stratagems it's hard to keep track of them all. Not gonna lie we're a really good army right now. Only way i can think of to counter is flamers for my opponents. Seriously spammed reavers and like dissies, shredders and various anti-tank/monster is all you need.

So I'm still tinkering about Succubi loadouts and especially about a good Succubus on cocaine. If I give her Stimm Addict, somehow rolls twice the same result she now have +2 to the characteristic. Now, I equip the Phial Bouquet, and roll the same drug once more, woooh ! She's now high on +3. In a desperate situation, I use Hyperstymm Backlash to double all that. So if I'm correct and the dice gods are with me, she could either now have +6 attacks (one-woman army), +6 strength (I am become death, destroyer of worlds), +12 movement (GOTTA GO FAST), +6 toughness (my father was a Primarch), +12 Ld (what's the point) or +6 CC (I WILL hit you).

I swear I'll try this once and if it's that fun I'll go with her every game just for the fun aspect of having an Eldar Eversor going "OH YEAH" all the time.

EDIT: Bonus ! Prevent your enemies fleeing from this monstrosity with a shardnet & impaler ! No one is safe !

You know I was initially pretty enthralled by the blender-talos and its 10 attacks, but upon mathing it out I'm starting to think that the flail is a huge trap. It averages 2 dead MEQ, 4 dead GEQ, only a single wound on TEQ and a few wounds on vehicles/monsters. What is thing actually supposed to be good against? Macro-scalpels seem to match it or outperform against all targets. How dull.