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 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

Seeing the nerf of the CC DS it seems Red Grief will become a more attractive choice, as being able to Advance and Charge turn 1 is the remedy to no DS turn 1.

Wait what?! Are we not allowed to DS turn one now?

When you DS turn one you must setup the unit in your own deployment zone, turn 2 and forwards you can deep strike as normal.

The new FAQ is a bucket of snot.

Hmm, i believe now since batallions got buffed alot, and black heart raiders dont provide any bonuses anymore to flayed skull warriors. I think it may be worth brining 2 black heart batallions instead for loads of CP, together with an red grief outrider detachment, though you will have to bring Drazhar since you can only have 3 archons now.

Hard-capped at 3 Sslyth now... >.<

Zero point making the 3 patrol force now either when Battalions give 5CP. Looks like I was going down the right lines with my list design direction at least.

 vipoid wrote:
The new FAQ is a bucket of snot.

Not really... especially if you play shooty DE.

ThePie wrote:Hmm, i believe now since batallions got buffed alot, and black heart raiders dont provide any bonuses anymore to flayed skull warriors. I think it may be worth brining 2 black heart batallions instead for loads of CP, together with an red grief outrider detachment, though you will have to bring Drazhar since you can only have 3 archons now.

I understand you'd take ONE Black Heart battalion but not TWO, this is still the most "meh" Obsession to me, so why suffer two of them ? Especially since you'll most likely play the CP recycling stratagem. Use a Wych battalion instead, you keep your 13 CPs but you don't have to field all the Archons of Commoragh.

Lithanial wrote:Hard-capped at 3 Sslyth now... >.<

Zero point making the 3 patrol force now either when Battalions give 5CP. Looks like I was going down the right lines with my list design direction at least.

At least the Lahmean spam is already dead. If you don't play with limitations on detachments you can still use battalion + 3 patrols to have 12 CPs, and you can use still use Alliance of Agony.

 Aaranis wrote:

ThePie wrote:Hmm, i believe now since batallions got buffed alot, and black heart raiders dont provide any bonuses anymore to flayed skull warriors. I think it may be worth brining 2 black heart batallions instead for loads of CP, together with an red grief outrider detachment, though you will have to bring Drazhar since you can only have 3 archons now.

I understand you'd take ONE Black Heart battalion but not TWO, this is still the most "meh" Obsession to me, so why suffer two of them ? Especially since you'll most likely play the CP recycling stratagem. Use a Wych battalion instead, you keep your 13 CPs but you don't have to field all the Archons of Commoragh.

Lithanial wrote:Hard-capped at 3 Sslyth now... >.<

Zero point making the 3 patrol force now either when Battalions give 5CP. Looks like I was going down the right lines with my list design direction at least.

At least the Lahmean spam is already dead. If you don't play with limitations on detachments you can still use battalion + 3 patrols to have 12 CPs, and you can use still use Alliance of Agony.

Very true, i just realized a wych battallion is the better choice.

Speaking of wych batallion, im thinking about running 3x5 wyches with shardnet&impaler, each with their own venom. Think it's a good way to fill up the troop slots and use thier utility to tie up units/vehicles so they can't do anything. Or perhaps it's better going cheap and running 3x5 barebone wyches for just objective capping.

Turn 1 only, you must DS within your Deployment zone --------- Edit: Didnt see the next page and it was answered already

I think overall we got off extremely light with the FAQ. Turn 1 distraction carnifex/DS alpha strike is the only thing we've definitely lost out on, but it's worth noting that we benefit as well, since other armies can't do it to us either. Going second is a lot safer for us now then it was before.

 ThePie wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

ThePie wrote:Hmm, i believe now since batallions got buffed alot, and black heart raiders dont provide any bonuses anymore to flayed skull warriors. I think it may be worth brining 2 black heart batallions instead for loads of CP, together with an red grief outrider detachment, though you will have to bring Drazhar since you can only have 3 archons now.

I understand you'd take ONE Black Heart battalion but not TWO, this is still the most "meh" Obsession to me, so why suffer two of them ? Especially since you'll most likely play the CP recycling stratagem. Use a Wych battalion instead, you keep your 13 CPs but you don't have to field all the Archons of Commoragh.

Lithanial wrote:Hard-capped at 3 Sslyth now... >.<

Zero point making the 3 patrol force now either when Battalions give 5CP. Looks like I was going down the right lines with my list design direction at least.

At least the Lahmean spam is already dead. If you don't play with limitations on detachments you can still use battalion + 3 patrols to have 12 CPs, and you can use still use Alliance of Agony.

Very true, i just realized a wych battallion is the better choice.

Speaking of wych batallion, im thinking about running 3x5 wyches with shardnet&impaler, each with their own venom. Think it's a good way to fill up the troop slots and use thier utility to tie up units/vehicles so they can't do anything. Or perhaps it's better going cheap and running 3x5 barebone wyches for just objective capping.

You can't go wrong with the shardnets, it's only 15 pts for the 3 squads and can help you survive when assaulting a unit on an objective so that they don't disengage and shot you. Remember Wyches are most durable in CC so you have to either be on a transport or in CC.

The new deep strike rule only affects close combat units that arrives by the Webway stratagem. Basically wyches and grotesques, which both can be successfully played in other ways. Shooty units can still be in range. We can still deepstrike in the enemy deployed zone in turn 2+.

I think it doesn't change almost anything. But I wasn't a fan of Webway Portal and Screaming Jets even before the FAQ and I didn't plan to rely on those stratagems anyway.

The spam limit just affects min units of reavers, but I think three squads are usually enough. Fielding more than 3 archons, succubus or haemys was silly and I'm glad it's not possible anymore, it will encourage some variety. But again, I don't think I'd even want three HQs of the same kind anyway.

I wonder what the dark eldar think of the transport deal. Was trying to comb through and see any thoughts, but either i missed it or didn't see it come up here of all places:

Q: The Tactical Reserves matched play rule states that at least
half the total number of units in my army must be set up on the
battlefield during Deployment. If I have units embarked in a
transport, do they count against the number of units I have to
set up during Deployment? If, for example, I have a Valkyrie
with three units embarked inside it that will arrive on the
battlefield during the game, how many other units do I need to
set up during Deployment to satisfy the Tactical Reserves rule?
A: Yes, embarked units count as units in your army,
so must be counted when referring to this rule. If you
have three units embarked inside a transport that will
arrive during the game, you need to set up at least four
other units on the battlefield during Deployment –
equivalently, if you set up three units in a transport on
the battlefield, you could set up four other units to arrive
during the game.

Meaning part of your reserves is units in transports which dark eldar kind of love to do. I also don't know how this quest interacts with the beta rule.

mmimzie wrote:
Meaning part of your reserves is units in transports which dark eldar kind of love to do.

Only if those vehicles are in reserve, e.g. by using Screaming Jets.

Anyone else miffed about them killing our raiding party three patrol thing? I know battallions were the way to go for CP anyways as long as you were playing large enough battles but they've now made it far less appealing to even attempt to build a unified cult/coven/kabal list, especially at low points. Here I was stoked to build my force up around three patrols until higher points battles then start looking at battalions there once points allowed but now... It would have taken them a couple lines of text to add in: If you take 3 drukhari patrols you get 6 CP instead of 4 (or heck I even would have taken 5 CP even though we need an extra HQ over a normal battalion).

Here they go dropping a (mostly) awesome codex that gets many DE players (myself included) pumped for the first time in a long time then they murder off one of our unique rules after 2 weeks. I know for many this isn't a big deal because plans were made to run battalions anyways but for me the thought of three small forces I could build up together just got shattered. They split our dex into thirds that needed a workaround to function properly, they gave us the workaround to do it then just spit on us 2 weeks later and give everyone something better.

Sorry for the ranting post but seriously I was stoked for this dex and what they did for us and now this turnaround just put such a sour taste in my mouth. Does this just crawl under anyone else's skin?

I mean, we still are the only army that can get command points through patrols. And it's not like your going to take 3 patrols at 2000 pts anyways, but for friendly games or campaigns, stuff like that it still works fine.

I do still miss my dracons thought. The idea of multiple achrons agreed doesn't seem right, but what's the excuse of killing off the dracon again? There is a model for it . . .and it would fix one of our biggest issues now thanks to the rule of 3 getting introduced.

All 3 of our mini-factions need mini-HQ's

The fact that you have to rely on freaking Drazhar to take multiple kabal detachments is really, really dumb. Especially since he's as bad as he is. DE needed some serious HQ love, but the FAQ just dialled that up to 11.

What do you think about Ynnari DE?

Looks like a folks are starting to look hard at vehicle squadrons to cope with the rule of 3 coming in. Worth keeping an eye on this one, as if they do start to pop up, the Voidraven Bomber gets much more interesting with its Void Mine.

I have to agree about HQ's, we already were hurting in the HQ part, but now even more so.

About Raiding party? I never used it anyways, Battalions were better before and they stilla re now, you dont take Raiding Party for CP, you take it b.c you need to fit that playstyle and we got extra CP for doing so.

The biggest thing for use is no Turn 1 Mandrakes/Scourges DSing effectiveness anymore. Many DS Mandrakes turn 2 anyways, but now we are forced too.

Over all i think it is good for the game, sadly its just going to stop some alpha strike shooting/melee and help artillery alpha strike. The Meta already was 6 Mortar teams for all Imperial players, these rules the highly enforces more lists like that. And hurts more stratagem based lists that used abilities, stratagems, etc.. to DS+move, more have a Scalpel DSing unit.

Its a shift, and IDK if it will be a good shift or not. most Spammed units dont need more than 3 Datasheets either, with Squadrons not being effected basically (still can take 18 Carnifex's and 10 LRBT's), this only really effects 1-2 units in Guard, 1-2 units in Orks, 2-3 units of Nids. But sadly it effects some smaller armies more.

BUT i think it will effect us more so. we already are very limited on units, this just makes it worst. If we play 1k games we are being forced to take things we might not want to play, and i dont mean force to if we want to win, i mean forced to, to even play. At 1k, we can only have 2per army, that is only 2 Bikes, 2 same HQ, 2 Ravagers, 2 Scourges, etc...


Edit: Sorry my english is bad and needed at add something

So the new battalion rules are amazing

2 archons, 3x5 kabalite warriors with blasters, 5 raiders = 700 pts
2 succubus, 3x5 wyches with nets = 250
1 archon, 1 homunculus, 3x5 warriors with blaster = 300

That's 3 battalions for 1250, giving 17+d3 cp after alliance of agony

 vipoid wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Trueborn are too expensive, you're putting too many eggs in the same basket, kabalites are obj sec and unlocks patrols and battallion.... IMHO 3-5 units of kabalites in venoms with a blaster each are pretty solid. I prefer them over 10 man squads in raiders.

The trouble with Trueborn is that they were overpriced in the index (they should be, at most, 1-2pts more than Warriors), and didn't benefit from the cost-reductions that most of our other units got.

Trueborn for me have one use, Shredders. 87pts for a squad that will butcher infantry units and unlike Scourges have the <Kabal> keyword so can gain the ignores cover of Flayed Skull or the +6" of Obsidian Rose. I ran 3 squads against Necrons and Tyranids over the weakend and both times all 3 squads made their points back. Of course, with any other weapon option Scourges or even Warriors are the better option by far.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ArtyomTrityak wrote:
What do you think about Ynnari DE?

Terrible. Ynnari only works if you've got one big squad with huge damage output potential that you can cast Word of the Phoenix on. Drukhari are an MSU army that has virtually no units like that, and the ones we do are Coven or vehicles so can't be Ynnari, or affected by Strength from Death anyway.

Anybody else confused with the Labarynthine Cunning FAQ? Combined with Writ of the Living Muse it feels like they are trying to turn Kabal of the Black Heart into a shooting castle, which is pretty much the antithesis of what our army should be.

Wyldcarde wrote:
So the new battalion rules are amazing

2 archons, 3x5 kabalite warriors with blasters, 5 raiders = 700 pts
2 succubus, 3x5 wyches with nets = 250
1 archon, 1 homunculus, 3x5 warriors with blaster = 300

That's 3 battalions for 1250, giving 17+d3 cp after alliance of agony

What exactly are you proving here? That if you play a terrible list you can get a lot of CPs?

It really does take me ages to figure out a battalion.... >.< I'm still looking for a good delivery mechanism for a combat focused Archon, particularly now Sslyth are capped at 3 and I got to thinking about Incubi since i'm building a predominantly infantry force.

At only 160 points it's not so bad if they get shot up while delivering the Archon into enemy lines, then if you can find any cover they become rather durable with a 2+ save and it's a prime target to use Lightning Fast Reflexes on for the -1 to hit. If you get both then they can withstand a crazy amount of firepower. Not invulnerable but disproportionate amounts for their cost and your Archon should see it through to survival. You could even have a few Sslyth following along with them just to be sure.

I was considering if Drazhar would be worth using instead of an Archon for this... in theory he should be what with being head of the Incubi and all.... But no, his math is terrible past the first turn, while an Archon can do more damage and for longer.

Lithanial wrote:
Looks like a folks are starting to look hard at vehicle squadrons to cope with the rule of 3 coming in. Worth keeping an eye on this one, as if they do start to pop up, the Voidraven Bomber gets much more interesting with its Void Mine.

Thats not how vehicle squadrons work, they become individual units after you deploy them. Void mine v tanks still sucks. Though it isn't terrible vs squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

Wyldcarde wrote:
So the new battalion rules are amazing

2 archons, 3x5 kabalite warriors with blasters, 5 raiders = 700 pts
2 succubus, 3x5 wyches with nets = 250
1 archon, 1 homunculus, 3x5 warriors with blaster = 300

That's 3 battalions for 1250, giving 17+d3 cp after alliance of agony

What exactly are you proving here? That if you play a terrible list you can get a lot of CPs?

Dial down the snark mate. There's no need for that crap here. He's excited by the prospect of getting silly amounts of CP's easily with our army which he isn't wrong about. Maybe what he listed is in his personal collection.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Dial down the snark mate.

For fans of the void mine I would like to point out the flyby stratagem thats lets you helions and reavers to do something similar to the voidmine.

It is also worth notesing that they both happens in the movement phase. You can void mine something, bringing the unit down. Then use the bikes impresive 26 range, or the gelions 15 - 20 to lay down more mortal wounds. Clear chaff and now you can mode closer with your other units.

 vipoid wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

Dial down the snark mate.

I mean, or you could act like an adult and actually contribute in a constructive way...

The changes to Detachments has made me consider running a Kabal Battalion and then running an Outrider of Wych Cult. That will give me 9 CP. I can then figure out what else I want to do for a third detachment. Probably run two squads of 6 Reavers and a squad of Scourges to fill the Outrider.

Niiai wrote:Wait, so Labyrinthine Cunning does not work in a transport?

Also, can all DE use the vect counterspell stratagem, or is there something I am not seeing?

Can't see why it wouldn't, the FAQ to Tactical Reserves clearly establishes that units in transports are "on the battlefield"

ThePie wrote:

 flamingkillamajig wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:

Seeing the nerf of the CC DS it seems Red Grief will become a more attractive choice, as being able to Advance and Charge turn 1 is the remedy to no DS turn 1.

Wait what?! Are we not allowed to DS turn one now?

When you DS turn one you must setup the unit in your own deployment zone, turn 2 and forwards you can deep strike as normal.

Keep in mind that this is a beta rule, and at present you are under no obligation to use it.

Blackie wrote:The new deep strike rule only affects close combat units that arrives by the Webway stratagem. Basically wyches and grotesques, which both can be successfully played in other ways. Shooty units can still be in range. We can still deepstrike in the enemy deployed zone in turn 2+.

I think it doesn't change almost anything. But I wasn't a fan of Webway Portal and Screaming Jets even before the FAQ and I didn't plan to rely on those stratagems anyway.

The spam limit just affects min units of reavers, but I think three squads are usually enough. Fielding more than 3 archons, succubus or haemys was silly and I'm glad it's not possible anymore, it will encourage some variety. But again, I don't think I'd even want three HQs of the same kind anyway.

The 3 uses per datasheet guideline only applies to organized events, and even then they are free not to use it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Aaranis wrote:


Labyrinthe Cunning became more powerful

...no it didn't. The only change to it was changing "is alive" to "is on the battlefield," the rest is exactly the same. It's arguable less powerful now, because before you could ostensibly have kept your warlord safe in the Webway for three rounds (I don't know why you would, though)