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How about "if you cant afford a child, dont have sex" that is what sex is for, having children.
Two things here are a wrong headed in my opinon. First, people don't have sex exclusively to have children. People have sex for many reason from strengthening their love bonds and expressing them, pass time when there is nothing else better to do, passing by simple fun. Indeed, sex can result in pregnancy that's why there is contraception measures from condoms to birth control pills passing by the calendar trick. None of them are perfect, some are better than others, and most can be used in conjunction. Saying that "sex is for children" is reductive as it's part of a healthy lifestyle. Humans need a way to express and live their sexualty safely to be at peak efficency and happiness. Abortions are a way to avoid undesired, if sometime inevitable, effect. Second, I think having a child without even questionning if you have the proper skills and financial resources to take properly care of him or her to be an enormous breach of personnal responsability. A child should never be seen as some sort of "punishment" on his or her parents. I think that putting people, but mostly women, between two bad choices: sexual repression or poor family planning while easy solution exist is akin to asking people to either practice contact sports without equipment and medical care or staying home doing nothing. Both are terrible choices with potential bad consequences.
Indeed, it's a women responsability to determine if she has the skills and the financial resources necessary to take care of a child. Abortion or contraceptions are informed choices. Carrying all pregnancy to term for no reason other than you are pregnant is a denial of this responsability that society then has to pay. Pre and neo-natal care for a child far exceed that of any abortion measures. Abortions are much less taxing and dangerous on a woman's body than an abortion.Since we live in society, our personnal responsability, our choices, have an impact on others. Forcing women to carry their pregnancy to term has tremendously bad consequences.
thekingofkings wrote: and all these "What about x" is just coming up with excuses for why human beings should be allowed to behave like animals. ITs not like pregnancy just happens, it takes deliberate effort. I find the arguments comparing it to accidents to be either dishonest or just an attempt to keep the talk going but I have a hard time believing good intentions from strangers on the internet.
Forcing a women to be a slave to her biology while we have developped medical and technical knowledge to extirpate them away from it is the exact opposite of "behaving like animals". That's what so characteristic of humans. We elliminate our weaknesses, for example that our women unlike that of many other mammal species can't stop their pregnancy at will, by developping tools and methods. The excuse of "personnal responsability" is the creation of a false dilemna by people more interested by controlling a woman's reproductive capacity and by extansion a woman's freedom by deying her agency and personnal responsability. At least that's how I see it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 05:57:48
Abortion is an important topic that needs to be debated, but before any of you decide to wade in, just first be conscious of these points;
1) Nothing major is going to change on abortion any time soon. Republicans have held a 5-4 majority on the Supreme Court for decades and haven't overturned Roe v Wade.
2) There are actual, real disgraces being committed by the Trump presidency every single day.
3) Republicans have a long history of using wedge issues to move debate away from areas of actual policy where the Republican position is horribly unpopular. Common wedge issues include guns, same sex marriage, transgender bathrooms... but abortion has always been the #1 go to for a wedge issue.
4) Right now Republicans have a president who's quite unpopular, but nowhere near as unpopular as you would think given his corruption and complete failure to deliver on his promises, and the only other thing Republicans could campaign on is their one legislative achievement, the tax cut, but that's comically unpopular. So instead they're shifting to wedge issues. Wait for transgender bathrooms to suddenly come up again as an important issue in the next couple of months, and then watch as that debate gets rehashed all over again.
With those points in mind, if you want then by all means debate abortion if you want.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
How about "if you cant afford a child, dont have sex" that is what sex is for, having children. If you want to do it "for fun" go in the back.
And here we have a prime example of needing better sex ed. Going in 'the back' is in no way foolproof due to the proximity of the vagina, it being in the splash zone. You wouldn't be the first to get knocked up 'just' from that.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Guiliani just loves crawling back under that bus over and over. Why else did he decided to join now of all moments.
Just as a point of detail, Giuliani joining now is only switching in to an official, paid position. He's been part of the Trump set up since part way through the primaries. Giuliani gave one of the craziest speeches at the convention, and man did he beat out some competition to claim that honour. And Giuliani himself was actually under investigation for his own part in the campaign, in the day's before Trump's Clinton/Weiner announcement, Giuliani was putting out statements indicating he knew the NY FBI office had more of Clinton's emails, leading to a leaking investigation. That's a big deal as its believed Giuliani was working with others to pressure Comey in to announcing a re-opening on the investigation just days before the election.
Some time after Comey was fired that investigation appears to have been quietly killed. Funny that.
So yeah, Giuliani has just taken an official role with Trump, but he's been in this deep for a long time now.
AAAMMEERRRICCCAAAA! You mean that speech It was an amazing crazy uncle speech, the horrifying part was the platform offered. I know he's been involved as a way to stay relevant. But he actually took a job at this point in time with Trump, that really says something, and it isn't positive.
Part of me wonders why Trump hasn't fired him after last week, maybe Trump knows it would make it look even worse? But then I'm probably giving far too much credit to Trump.
2) There are actual, real disgraces being committed by the Trump presidency every single day...
With those points in mind, if you want then by all means debate abortion if you want.
I don't think Dakka has the manpower to sufficiently keep up with everything the Trump admin does on a single day, let alone cover any other topic in that case
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/05/07 06:33:16
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
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Disciple of Fate wrote: AAAMMEERRRICCCAAAA! You mean that speech It was an amazing crazy uncle speech, the horrifying part was the platform offered. I know he's been involved as a way to stay relevant. But he actually took a job at this point in time with Trump, that really says something, and it isn't positive.
True. It's been quite something to see how many people have elected to double down on Trump time and again, rather than back off. You're right that Giuliani could have quietly backed off, but instead chose to get further connected.
Part of me wonders why Trump hasn't fired him after last week, maybe Trump knows it would make it look even worse? But then I'm probably giving far too much credit to Trump.
Yeah, I don't know why either. In terms of terrible starts, Giuliani has been worse than the Mooch and there was no hesitation in that guy getting booted. But I guess the Mooch was part of the White House and had Kelly gunning for him, so that made him accountable for his screw ups in a way that Giuliani as a Trump personal lawyer is not.
But I also suspect that Trump's reaction indicates that last week wasn't Giuliani acting on his own. No way Giuliani got put in front of cameras to just guess what their legal strategy was. He was brought in to change the strategy, and the strategy he ran with last week would have been what he'd agreed with Trump. That doesn't mean Trump is happy with how the strategy played out, this week's backtracking from Giuliani shows it did not work as expected, and probably wasn't vetted by the lawyers on Trump's team that actually know what the law is and what liabilities last week's claims opened them up for. But there was likely some intent to it, I'm left to wonder if Trump and Giuliani are scrabbling for a way to get ahead of FBI captured records of payments from Trump to Cohen.
I don't think Dakka has the manpower to sufficiently keep up with everything the Trump admin does on a single day, let alone cover any other topic in that case
The whole of print and broadcast media doesn't have time to cover all the scams and failures of the Trump admin. Last week there was a story about an aide to Scott Pruitt, Michael Abboud, shopping around scandals about Ryan Zinke, who's Secretary of the Interior. That story showed that Trump staff know with so little time for so many scandals, they can actually reduce pressure on their own scandals by focusing on a different one. And of course, that story only got a tiny bit of coverage... because there's so many scandals.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Apparently the religious evangelists [edited by Kilkrazy] in the US are pouring money into the campaign to retain the article of Irelands constitution that makes it illegal (punishable by 20 years in prison) for women to get an abortion in Ireland. We've a referendum on it in 3 weeks.
They did this the last 2 times we had a vote on this too - poured piles and piles of money into it. They've also been putting up really horrific posters of dismembered fetus on lamp posts, which even our "retain" campaign is annoyed about.
I wish they'd butt out and deal with the trash fire that is their own countries politics.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 09:08:45
If Trump scoops up Chris Christie, he will have the Dream Team! Whatever happened to ol' Christie? He can't be busy with anything right now, can he?
Da Boss wrote: Apparently the religious crazies in the US are pouring money into the campaign to retain the article of Irelands constitution that makes it illegal (punishable by 20 years in prison) for women to get an abortion in Ireland. We've a referendum on it in 3 weeks.
They did this the last 2 times we had a vote on this too - poured piles and piles of money into it. They've also been putting up really horrific posters of dismembered fetus on lamp posts, which even our "retain" campaign is annoyed about.
I wish they'd butt out and deal with the trash fire that is their own countries politics.
Can you just keep them for a couple days longer? Please? We need time over here.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 07:41:18
I know that is a joke, but honestly, if we lose this referendum Irish women are going to be condemned to a completely crazy regime of legal persecution for at least another decade so I'd really appreciate it if these eejits would go home.
Evangelicals on here, your money is going to fund this sort of electoral interference in other countries FYI. Our stupid laws are even more strict than the position Trump had to back away from.
Another one that's been pushed in to the background by Trump nonsense is George Mason university, which took millions from the Charles Koch foundation, and all the foundation asked for in response was a direct say in who the university hired and fired to one of its free market think tanks. George Mason had been denying this for years, claiming that no donation would ever be accepted if it didn't come with complete academic freedom, but after court review the university decided to finally publish the agreement with the foundation, which showed the Charles Koch Foundation was allowed to pick two of the five chairs involved in hiring and firing decisions in the think tank.
The last few years have seen a lot of writing from conservatives who have been worried about free speech on universities, after left wing students protested various conservative and reactionary speakers, sometimes leading to the cancellation of speaking events. Given their proclaimed commitment to free speech, I have eagerly looked forward to the scathing op eds that are to be written about giving a conservative body direct say on who a university hires at one of its research and policy outfits. Haven't seen anything written yet, though. Can't think why.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadwinter wrote: If Trump scoops up Chris Christie, he will have the Dream Team! Whatever happened to ol' Christie? He can't be busy with anything right now, can he?
He was last seen really, really enjoying that desert at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 07:53:19
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
Spinner wrote: 'What Trump did today' is a major buzzkill.
Spoiler:
... the hero we need.
facts are so 20th century.
like so much else :
Spoiler:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 11:30:41
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Dreadwinter wrote: If Trump scoops up Chris Christie, he will have the Dream Team! Whatever happened to ol' Christie? He can't be busy with anything right now, can he?
He was last seen really, really enjoying that desert at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
That moment when Christie's level if incompetence and scandals would actually be an improvement to the administration.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 11:30:30
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Christie is incompetent and corrupt, but normal person incompetent and corrupt. I think he would be a huge upgrade to the current admin. Plus, you like people who "look the part"? Say no more.
Spoiler:
THICC boi:
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
The change from Billy to Franklin decline of the Grahams is a pretty good summary of the change in conservative politics. I didn't share much of Billy Graham's politics or his worldview, but there's no doubting Billy Graham's character or convictions. I think Billy Graham made some mistakes in finding a balance between affecting change and becoming part of the system, but I think he was always looking for a balance as best he could.
In contrast... well Franklin Graham is just a really gak person. Every statement made is considered only in terms of immediate political, there is no conviction, philosophy or belief behind any of it. Like so many attached to modern conservatism, he simply works to repeat the conservative talking points of the moment, grifting large piles of cash for doing so.
If conservatives are ever going to dig themselves out of this hole, one of the most important and most difficult steps will be separating the party from hucksters like Franklin Graham.
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Ouze wrote: Christie is incompetent and corrupt, but normal person incompetent and corrupt. I think he would be a huge upgrade to the current admin.
To paraphrase PJ O'Rourke, "I mean, Christie is incompetent and crooked, but he's incompetent and crooked within normal parameters."
Plus, you like people who "look the part"? Say no more.
Spoiler:
THICC boi:
Hypnotic.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 16:10:03
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
That was a close one. Someone really needs to reign in your state ethics commissions. They sound like they're trying to actually do their job instead of just appearing to do their job.
Well we can thank Guiliani for another great episode of Last Week Tonight.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 17:37:32
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
In a rather ironic turn of events, former weapons smuggler for Iran, Oliver North, will be the new President of the NRA.
The cognitive dissonance is...strong here.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
Who better to run the NRA than a man trying to spread weapons around the world?
Resisting the urge to post the American Dad Ollie North song
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
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Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
if you legalise weed then we’ll have to kill all those dogs
..
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
... where would they get the idea that this would work as an argument...
... oh...
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
NinthMusketeer wrote: So Republicans are willing to kill dogs to spite legalized weed. Somehow it's a mere blip on the radar for party scummery.
Did I miss something... the IL government is dominated by democrats...
It isn't government reps saying the dogs will need to be euthanized. TBF I jumped the gun in stating the anti-weed police officials are Republican, I don't have evidence for that assumption beyond circumstantial and should have been clear I was assuming.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So Republicans are willing to kill dogs to spite legalized weed. Somehow it's a mere blip on the radar for party scummery.
Did I miss something... the IL government is dominated by democrats...
But is the anti-pot faction dominated by Dems or by Republicans?
Not that I think that this incident comes down to Reps vs. Democrats - This is not so much a Right vs. Left as an 'OMG! They's wanna legalize drugzzzz! What can we do ta stop 'em?! Ahhhh!' bit of stupidity and fear mongering. 'Think of the kittens!'
Not particularly coherent, and... pretty far out from the main stream. (I kinda doubt all the states that have already legalized pot are euthanizing their K9 units.)
The Auld Grump
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
NinthMusketeer wrote: So Republicans are willing to kill dogs to spite legalized weed. Somehow it's a mere blip on the radar for party scummery.
Did I miss something... the IL government is dominated by democrats...
But is the anti-pot faction dominated by Dems or by Republicans?
Not that I think that this incident comes down to Reps vs. Democrats - This is not so much a Right vs. Left as an 'OMG! They's wanna legalize drugzzzz! What can we do ta stop 'em?! Ahhhh!' bit of stupidity and fear mongering. 'Think of the kittens!'
Not particularly coherent, and... pretty far out from the main stream. (I kinda doubt all the states that have already legalized pot are euthanizing their K9 units.)
The Auld Grump
The Macon County Sheriff, Howard Buffet who has this quote in the article:
“The biggest thing for law enforcement is, you're going to have to replace all of your dogs,” said Macon County Sheriff Howard Buffett, whose private foundation paid $2.2 million in 2016 to support K-9 units in 33 counties across Illinois. “So to me, it’s a giant step forward for drug dealers, and it’s a giant step backwards for law enforcements and the residents of the community."
is billionaire Warren Buffet's son. He did not run for office but was named as the successor to the previous county sheriff, a Democrat, who retired before his term was up. Apparently Howard Buffet is not intending to run for election to the office this year, although there are two candidates who are currently officers in the department who are running as Democrats in the primary.
Disciple of Fate wrote: Well we can thank Guiliani for another great episode of Last Week Tonight.
Jesus. I don't even like Guiliani and I thought that was maybe a little more brutal than necessary XD
Yeah, I mean you could at least mix in a mention of his role in cleaning up Times Square. Giuliani has always been weird, creepy, reactionary and authoritative but at least NYC made some noticeable progress on his watch. Sure it probably would have turned out the same if somebody else had been mayor but at least Rudy didn't screw it up.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/05/07 21:10:15
1750 pts Blood Specters
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
facts are so 20th century.
3000
4000 
