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 An Actual Englishman wrote:
All of this will be forgiven once our codex is released assuming we get a few new models.


I've no doubt we'll get some good treatment once the codex is released.

LOL you must be new here (sarcasm). But seriously did you get to endure the transition from our amaze-balls 4th edition codex to the 7th edition hard cover book equivalent of a gut punch?

 lolman1c wrote:
He has a point. If my mate built a crappy wall and said "Well when we get some new material in we'll just build a better one next to it" theynwould fire him on the spot! And I bet building high rise buildings in Asia is more difficult than balancing 40k. XD

Don't be dazzled by bs.

If Orks got all the point decreases they want right now they'd get a ton of point increases when the book comes out.

It is not stupid for GW to take a ponderous path on those changes.


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 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
All of this will be forgiven once our codex is released assuming we get a few new models.


I've no doubt we'll get some good treatment once the codex is released.

LOL you must be new here (sarcasm). But seriously did you get to endure the transition from our amaze-balls 4th edition codex to the 7th edition hard cover book equivalent of a gut punch?

I think you must be new. Did you miss the transition to new management?

Let's not allow our painful past experiences to cloud our judgement now. Other codexes who have suffered in an similar vein now find that they have some of the most competitive books available. If anything our previous treatment should all but guarantee a book so OP it would instantly break the meta.

I'm curious as I can think of only one person, but did any of you get into Orks to compete at the top level? Surely you all realised, when you decided to go with the big green ladz, that you were picking a largely underpowered army?

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
All of this will be forgiven once our codex is released assuming we get a few new models.


I've no doubt we'll get some good treatment once the codex is released.

LOL you must be new here (sarcasm). But seriously did you get to endure the transition from our amaze-balls 4th edition codex to the 7th edition hard cover book equivalent of a gut punch?

lol. That 4th edition codex was for suck., just about as poor as the 7th ed codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Let's not allow our painful past experiences to cloud our judgement now. Other codexes who have suffered in an similar vein now find that they have some of the most competitive books available. If anything our previous treatment should all but guarantee a book so OP it would instantly break the meta.

I'm curious as I can think of only one person, but did any of you get into Orks to compete at the top level? Surely you all realised, when you decided to go with the big green ladz, that you were picking a largely underpowered army?

I have a feeling the codex this edition will be fitting for this edition and hold up against the others fairly well.

When I got into Orks the idea of top tier armies for competition wasn't really as much of a thing as it is now. What with army comp, painting and Sportsmanship scores being needed for taking the total win.
But I did expect to hold my own at the time and I did fair enough in that environment.
Nothing under powered about big shootas, rokkits and choppas back then. Hell, Flash Gitz in a Battle Wagon were super supper nasty. (Once upon a time.)

I miss squig catapults, splatta kannons, pulsa rokkits, and weird boyz that needed "minderz".

Those were the days.

 warhead01 wrote:
lol. That 4th edition codex was for suck., just about as poor as the 7th ed codex.

We had two competitive lists that could regularly place well in tournaments, battlewagon bash and kan wall.
We also had a ton of semi-competitive builds that would work well in less competitive environments: Dread Mob, Green Tide, Footsloggers (less boyz and more toyz than tide), Deff Wing, Kult of Speed (trukks), Nob Bikers and Wazzdakka bike horde
We had multiple useful anti-tank options: Lootas, kannons, deff rollas, warbosses, nobz, nob bikers, kanz, koptas and buggies. All those could destroy enemy tanks.
We had a KFF that extended 6" from the hull of a battlewagon or trukk and provided 4+ cover saves to any unit within 6".
We had boarding planks that allowed a PK to attack from inside a vehicle.
We had ramshackle trukks that turned into ballistic missiles when killed.
We had the option to use nobz, nob bikers, MANz or bikers as troops.
We had burna wagons that actually did something.
We could turn enemy characters into squigs.
We had characters and nobz with 5++ saves.

And the best part? Most models actually costed less points then than they do now. Sure, the codex was full of useless units and non-functional rules, but that's how WH40k was back then for everyone.
So don't you dare put the 4th edition codex on the same lave as the rip-off the 7th edition piece of junk was.

 Jidmah wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:
lol. That 4th edition codex was for suck., just about as poor as the 7th ed codex.

We had two competitive lists that could regularly place well in tournaments, battlewagon bash and kan wall.
We also had a ton of semi-competitive builds that would work well in less competitive environments: Dread Mob, Green Tide, Footsloggers (less boyz and more toyz than tide), Deff Wing, Kult of Speed (trukks), Nob Bikers and Wazzdakka bike horde
We had multiple useful anti-tank options: Lootas, kannons, deff rollas, warbosses, nobz, nob bikers, kanz, koptas and buggies. All those could destroy enemy tanks.
We had a KFF that extended 6" from the hull of a battlewagon or trukk and provided 4+ cover saves to any unit within 6".
We had boarding planks that allowed a PK to attack from inside a vehicle.
We had ramshackle trukks that turned into ballistic missiles when killed.
We had the option to use nobz, nob bikers, MANz or bikers as troops.
We had burna wagons that actually did something.
We could turn enemy characters into squigs.
We had characters and nobz with 5++ saves.

And the best part? Most models actually costed less points then than they do now. Sure, the codex was full of useless units and non-functional rules, but that's how WH40k was back then for everyone.
So don't you dare put the 4th edition codex on the same lave as the rip-off the 7th edition piece of junk was.

What ever dude, they both were no good. That stupid 4th ed codex had a few "good builds" , so what. A few good builds doesn't make a codex good.
It was an large step down from the codex prior and nothing will change my mind about that. One of the larger problem it had was that it was expected to cover down between 4th,5th and 6th edition.
We've beaten the 7th ed codex issues to death we already know what and why.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:
He has a point. If my mate built a crappy wall and said "Well when we get some new material in we'll just build a better one next to it" theynwould fire him on the spot! And I bet building high rise buildings in Asia is more difficult than balancing 40k. XD

Don't be dazzled by bs.

If Orks got all the point decreases they want right now they'd get a ton of point increases when the book comes out.

It is not stupid for GW to take a ponderous path on those changes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
All of this will be forgiven once our codex is released assuming we get a few new models.


I've no doubt we'll get some good treatment once the codex is released.

LOL you must be new here (sarcasm). But seriously did you get to endure the transition from our amaze-balls 4th edition codex to the 7th edition hard cover book equivalent of a gut punch?

I think you must be new. Did you miss the transition to new management?

If I wanted a viable well priced army I'd sell my Orks and buy IG. I couldn't give a flipping squig if all our stuff gets priced appropriately! I want an Orky army and this is why I didn't like the index! We didn't play orks for nearly 10 years hoping they migh4 be priced right. We played them because ofmall the fun Orky rules like looted vechiles, kustom scratch built HQs, ect... and my feelings is that even biker boses will vanish in the codex. Removing the last peice of Orky creativeness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I miss squig catapults, splatta kannons, pulsa rokkits, and weird boyz that needed "minderz".

Those were the days.

This is what i mean! The Ork index was just marines painted green... nothing was really Orky about it as most factions just did what we did but better. I want to have stuff that isn't game winning but is unique as hell!

 lolman1c wrote:

This is what i mean! The Ork index was just marines painted green... nothing was really Orky about it as most factions just did what we did but better. I want to have stuff that isn't game winning but is unique as hell!

I think it still has a lot of the essence. The Bubblechukka is just awesome and if it didn't take so long to resolve i'd take 10 of them. The SAG, Zzap, and Tellyporta are also good representations.

And i'm certain the codex will have more of the Orky essence. I bet you'll even see Pulsa Rokkits as a stratagem. Something like causes D3 mortal wounds and halves unit movement.

That's just names... I don't want to do D3 wounds.... I want a warboss who can take 20 shootas, I want to teleport enemy units about at random, I want to turn gillymannn into a squig and I want my red vechiles to naturally go faster with no dumb stratagems needed! All stuff (apart from the 20 shootas) we used to have built into the army. If all we can expect is stratadumbs that are just like everyone elses but have names in reference to all the cool stuff we used to have then I can understand why people are disappointed. 7thed was bad for Orks but at least we felt like Orks.

I don't want to play a imperial army painted green (in the sense I just move, roll to shoot, roll to wound, maybe do a few mortal wounds). I want wacky but dangerous adventures of warbands of Orks crashing their way through space as they mash together unique looking units with abilities you wouldn't find anywhere else in the galaxy!

 lolman1c wrote:
That's just names... I don't want to do D3 wounds.... I want a warboss who can take 20 shootas, I want to teleport enemy units about at random, I want to turn gillymannn into a squig and I want my red vechiles to naturally go faster with no dumb stratagems needed! All stuff (apart from the 20 shootas) we used to have built into the army. If all we can expect is stratadumbs that are just like everyone elses but have names in reference to all the cool stuff we used to have then I can understand why people are disappointed. 7thed was bad for Orks but at least we felt like Orks.

I don't want to play a imperial army painted green (in the sense I just move, roll to shoot, roll to wound, maybe do a few mortal wounds). I want wacky but dangerous adventures of warbands of Orks crashing their way through space as they mash together unique looking units with abilities you wouldn't find anywhere else in the galaxy!

Yea we'll never see something super random again. The pulsar was such a chore in the past anyway. I'll bet speed kult will get automatic extra move anyway.

There might be narrative stuff in the future, but not for matched play.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:

This is what i mean! The Ork index was just marines painted green... nothing was really Orky about it as most factions just did what we did but better. I want to have stuff that isn't game winning but is unique as hell!

I think it still has a lot of the essence. The Bubblechukka is just awesome and if it didn't take so long to resolve i'd take 10 of them. The SAG, Zzap, and Tellyporta are also good representations.

And i'm certain the codex will have more of the Orky essence. I bet you'll even see Pulsa Rokkits as a stratagem. Something like causes D3 mortal wounds and halves unit movement.

This got me thinking. How about a stratagem, Choppas, resolve wounds in close combat against target unit at AP-2. (Can not be used with Grots, they just too weedy.)

 warhead01 wrote:

This got me thinking. How about a stratagem, Choppas, resolve wounds in close combat against target unit at AP-2. (Can not be used with Grots, they just too weedy.)

Fun, but absurdly powerful.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 warhead01 wrote:

This got me thinking. How about a stratagem, Choppas, resolve wounds in close combat against target unit at AP-2. (Can not be used with Grots, they just too weedy.)

Fun, but absurdly powerful.

I agree. Probably set it at 3 CP's maybe even 4, would be funny if Orks got the first 4CP costed Stratagem. Still, it would be glorious. lol

Personally I'd rather have decent -AP tools to deal with high armoured units, without having to rely on a costly stratagem that can now be cancelled.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Personally I'd rather have decent -AP tools to deal with high armoured units, without having to rely on a costly stratagem that can now be cancelled.

Canceled how? Is that a new thing?

 warhead01 wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Personally I'd rather have decent -AP tools to deal with high armoured units, without having to rely on a costly stratagem that can now be cancelled.

Canceled how? Is that a new thing?

Just for DE. Nothing that would really be a wider problem.

Ah,good to know.
I have that book and haven't even opened it.

I think you must be new. Did you miss the transition to new management?

Ahhh yes. New management which gifted us the most op stratagem in the game currently..6s to hit give an extra shot which still
Must be rolled for. Yes I’m tweeking my nipples with anticipation at the thought of a book full of OP stratagems like this!

I’m awaiting this codex with my hands covering my eyes out peeking through my fingers like a 5 year old. I’m terrified they will turn my beloved orks into a joke. And not a good joke like the old ork ways where that joke could possibly murder your face, but a joke that lands as flat and insulting like that 7th edition codex was. 4th edition orks were lit. There were SOME units that were pointless except for lols or fun...but orks were feared and respected. Never broken, never bad. Always had a chance against any list and always great games.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:

I think you must be new. Did you miss the transition to new management?

Ahhh yes. New management which gifted us the most op stratagem in the game currently..6s to hit give an extra shot which still
Must be rolled for. Yes I’m tweeking my nipples with anticipation at the thought of a book full of OP stratagems like this!

I’m awaiting this codex with my hands covering my eyes out peeking through my fingers like a 5 year old. I’m terrified they will turn my beloved orks into a joke. And not a good joke like the old ork ways where that joke could possibly murder your face, but a joke that lands as flat and insulting like that 7th edition codex was. 4th edition orks were lit. There were SOME units that were pointless except for lols or fun...but orks were feared and respected. Never broken, never bad. Always had a chance against any list and always great games.

And on the other hand Mob Up makes Trukk Boyz viable if people would get over their hate for them.

Have you also not seen the weak index armies that got codexes get sorted out pretty well?

I wrote a really cool and well thouht out resoonse the my net lost connection when posting so now you will have this response:

Mob up strat sucks! I can name a few reasons and even within a few seconds of reading it I can think of a few more ways you could have made the rule more exciting and Orky!

For one, I shouldn't have to rely on a stratadumb to make my style of play useful! I want my trukk boyz to be usable from the start! Stratadumb were meant to be useful bonuses to help out in make or break situation but now they're becoming a crutch which is wrong!

Secondly, mob up isn't amazing. It would have been useful if you could mob up any number of boyz to a max for 30 or 40 in a unit. Then I could send in two wagons or a wagon and a trukk full of boyz to really hit the front lines hard.

Finally, what would have made Mob up a freaking amazing stratagem would have been if you could mob up any infintry unit with each other (if Deathwatch can do this then why can't we in exchange for cp!). Not only would this have been Orky fun and fluffy but it might have possibly fixed our entire index until the codex came out.

Imagine if you will.... a death skullz warband! And in this warband you have some weak but expensive 10 lootas who are maybe stuck on an objective you don't even need. Boom! Mob them up with 20 boyz and you got yourself a hell of a team up! 10 lootas with 20 wounds and 40 extra short range shots. Move them or da jump them about onto different objectives would be epic!

Tank Bustas.... people complain about them needing to get close.... Boom! 20 wounds in front of them and up in yah face! Take that tanks! Might even encourage you to add rockets to the mob! Hell... those hammers tank bustas have? Now you mob up 10 tank bustas with hammers with 20 boyz and finally Ork boyz have an awesome anti tank boyz mob!

Useless burna boyz? Not anymore! 15 of with with 15 boyz and suddenly the front line buffer of guards men is toast before you make that charge!

Hell, why not use grots like they're supposed to be used for! Mob 10 up in 20 boyz and you got an awesome 10 wound buffer shield as you foot slog accross the board!

THE LIST GOES ON! Hell.... why not mob up a hq into a mob? Not only would this make up for Orks lack of snipers and anti snipers, it opens up so many new fluffy play styles (maybe balance it by limiting the HQ auras to that unit like it was in 7th edition). Suddenly Trukk boyz have a warbos and nobz mixed amongst their small mob. A painboy can keep that unit safe without needing to duck and cover! A weirdboy might be able to da jump a single unit accross the board with himself. Even a Mek could get a lot of use with trukk unit.

The list goes on about how a change to this rule could drastically improve the Orkiness of gameplay! It's pure amazing how with 10 seconds of reading the rule i thought of a better more orky rule back then... helll even came up with all the ways to deal with the balance.

 lolman1c wrote:


For one, I shouldn't have to rely on a stratadumb to make my style of play useful!

Ok, that's a fair criticism.

Secondly, mob up isn't amazing.

It's not Vect, but it's pretty handy. Like you said - wagon w/ deffrolla plus a trukk w/ ball gets you a mob of 30 and two solid melee overwatch absorbers.

Finally, what would have made Mib up a freaking amazing stratagem would have been if you could mob up any infintry unit with each other (if Deathwatch can do this then why can't we in exchange for cp!). Not only would this have been Orky fun,

It would be super abusable with Ork morale. I wanted it that way initially, too.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:


For one, I shouldn't have to rely on a stratadumb to make my style of play useful!

Ok, that's a fair criticism.

Secondly, mob up isn't amazing.

It's not Vect, but it's pretty handy. Like you said - wagon w/ deffrolla plus a trukk w/ ball gets you a mob of 30 and two solid melee overwatch absorbers.

Finally, what would have made Mib up a freaking amazing stratagem would have been if you could mob up any infintry unit with each other (if Deathwatch can do this then why can't we in exchange for cp!). Not only would this have been Orky fun,

It would be super abusable with Ork morale. I wanted it that way initially, too.

1 second, re read the full post, i missed half of it out when i lost connection again so you missed half of it.

Can zhardsnark advance and charge?! Please help!

 lolman1c wrote:


1 second, re read the full post, i missed half of it out when i lost connection again so you missed half of it.

Yea i'm totally with you on a rule like that. I'm just not certain it would be balanced especially with nobz kicking about.

 Sal4m4nd3r wrote:
Ahhh yes. New management which gifted us the most op stratagem in the game currently..6s to hit give an extra shot which still
Must be rolled for. Yes I’m tweeking my nipples with anticipation at the thought of a book full of OP stratagems like this!

I’m awaiting this codex with my hands covering my eyes out peeking through my fingers like a 5 year old. I’m terrified they will turn my beloved orks into a joke. And not a good joke like the old ork ways where that joke could possibly murder your face, but a joke that lands as flat and insulting like that 7th edition codex was. 4th edition orks were lit. There were SOME units that were pointless except for lols or fun...but orks were feared and respected. Never broken, never bad. Always had a chance against any list and always great games.

I lol'd at this.

We have 2 options ladies and gents. We can be pessimistic or hopeful. I'm choosing to be hopeful. I could be wrong and mistaken, if so I'll just focus on the hobby rather than the gaming aspect of 40k.

I really think we'll get some good stuff though. The stratagems for DE in CA were also bland and awful, but look how they turned out!

mrtomski wrote:
Can zhardsnark advance and charge?! Please help!

They forgot about him, FW and GW never work well together

If GW do for Orks what they managed to do for Tyranids we should do just fine

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 lolman1c wrote:


For one, I shouldn't have to rely on a stratadumb to make my style of play useful!

Ok, that's a fair criticism.

Secondly, mob up isn't amazing.

It's not Vect, but it's pretty handy. Like you said - wagon w/ deffrolla plus a trukk w/ ball gets you a mob of 30 and two solid melee overwatch absorbers.

Finally, what would have made Mib up a freaking amazing stratagem would have been if you could mob up any infintry unit with each other (if Deathwatch can do this then why can't we in exchange for cp!). Not only would this have been Orky fun,

It would be super abusable with Ork morale. I wanted it that way initially, too.

So that stratagem makes Trukk boyz good if you take them with a Battlewagon full of boyz and then mob them up. So you gain better movement and a unit of 30 boyz (including 2 nobz) showing up undamaged for the low low cost of......440pts. 440pts and 2CP? I can't remember because I never use it because it is so terrible. What else could I do with 440pts...Ohh yeah, I could take 60 boyz and a Weirdboy and have 20pts left over. yeah that sounds better then 440pts for HALF the boyz as well as a useless trukk whose only purpose now is to eat overwatch and a Battlewagon which while effective in CC, isn't nearly as effective as another MOB of boyz against MOST targets.

A wagon without a roller is almost as useless as a trukk. I don't have a roller on mine because I thouht it looked cool without one at the time so didn't take one. Don't think I even have the hardcase model anymore (it's lost to time). But uou have a point. 50% of a 1k list is dedicated to getting 60 boyz across and you don't even get a turn 1 charge due to how rules work. I would love evil sunz to have the ability to charge in with trukks and wagons and then have boyz unload out of the trukk into cc. The negative to balance it being you have to position your trukk correctly or most of your units can't attack.