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U02dah4 wrote:
How do you get so many knight characters to use the relics arnt you limited to 1?

My understanding of the Strategem is that it is one of two ways to get additional Knight characters. Exalted Court is the other. One gives you relics, the other gives you Warlord traits.

I believe you have to use two separate stratagems. One to make them characters with a warlord trait, and one to give them a relic. I really hope I’m incorrect though as that’d free up 3 CP from my list.

EDIT: Oh wow, crazy timing. See above.

The two stratagems are separate.

Exalted Court costs 1/3 CP and allows you to choose 1/2 non-character knights. They become characters and gain a warlord trait. You may not choose the same trait more than once.

Heirlooms of the Household costs 1/3 CP and allows you to take 1/2 relics on character knights in any detachment.

For each Super-heavy Detachment you have one Knight in that detachment is chosen to be a Character (for free).

If your Warlord is a Knight then one model in his detachment may take a relic for free.

As far as I can see, there's no way to make an Armiger a character.

Isnt the wording on the lance detatchment rule

If your army is Battle-forged, select one model from every Imperial Knights detachment. Those models gain the Character keyword

Wouldnt that let you character an armiger

Well, if the Relic Strategem doesn't allow you to put the relics on additional models somehow, it is worthless.

No it works i wasnt aware there was a character strategem so I assumed you had to do it by multi detatchmenting

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, if the Relic Strategem doesn't allow you to put the relics on additional models somehow, it is worthless.

It's not worthless because there are various ways to get extra character knights to give relics. For example:

- Use the stratagem to have a second (or third) knight character.
- Run a second detachment of knights.
- Run one detachment of knights, but have some random character in another detachment be your warlord. Now you need to user the stratagem to give your character knight a relic.

There are plenty of good reasons to make someone else your warlord. Knights are far from invincible and can't be hidden, and you might like some of the other warlord traits.

I'm definitely thinking about running a brigade or maybe a battalion of guard with my knights for obsec and command point purposes. Are there any leaks on point costs already?

Just wish I knew if Armigers could be characters. I picked up 4 for dirt cheap when forgebanes dropped and didn't feel like running a big knight. I know there are some relics that help them so if I could make even just one a character it'd be really nice.

Warden 285 + (75 + 17) + 30 + 4 = 411
Errant 285 + 76 + 30 + 4 = 395
Gallant 285(?) + 30 + 35 + 4 = 354
Warglaive 160 + 4 (includes Thermal Spear and Chaincleaver)
Helverin 170 + 4 (includes Armiger Autocannon)
Paladin 285 + (100 + 4) + 30 + 4 = 423
Crusader 285 + (75 + 17) + (100 + 4) + 4 = 485
Canis Rex 450 (Includes all wargear)
Valiant 500, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Castellan 510, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Preceptor 385 (Includes Las Impulsor) + 30 + 4 = 419

Also, Gallant is now 5 attacks and WS2+.

Thermal Cannon 76
Stormspear 45
Reaper chainsword 30
Gauntlet 35
Avenger Gatling 75
Heavy Flamer 17
Rapid Fire BC 100
Stubber 4
Shieldbreaker Missile 12
Siegebreaker Cannon 35

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Just wish I knew if Armigers could be characters. I picked up 4 for dirt cheap when forgebanes dropped and didn't feel like running a big knight. I know there are some relics that help them so if I could make even just one a character it'd be really nice.

they can but only 1 per detatchment

I see a few people with gallant in their lists now which makes me hapyy. Does this mean they're more viable?

Here's first list I'm planning to try when I get models.

Castellan(2 cannons, 1 missile)
Crusader
Gallant
warglaive
helverin

2 IG commanders, 3 infantry squads(2 with mortars), mortar HWS.

Not sure what house/whatever though I'm thinking of freeblading one of questor knights for fun. For warlord trait maybe 4++ for the castellan as I expect that one to soak up tons of firepower. Maybe character up crusader for relic avenger? One IG commander gets kurov's aquilla for CP stealing. Though requires 3 strategems from opponent to pay back so wonder if it's worth it

8 CP after spending 3 for extra warlord/relic for knight and kurov's aquilla.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

fatbudda319 wrote:
I see a few people with gallant in their lists now which makes me hapyy. Does this mean they're more viable?

They did get boost. Whether that's enough remains to be seen. Probably people are interested trying it out so that's why you see them soon. Need to try out whether it's worth it or not.

What about a Megaera made character for a 3++/4++ that you can boost up to 2++/3++ with Rotate Ion Shield?

Using the Index, it was the only knight that at least has a small chance of surviving a round of heavy fire. I think now it can be really hard to bring down...

 Cybtroll wrote:
What about a Megaera made character for a 3++/4++ that you can boost up to 2++/3++ with Rotate Ion Shield?

Using the Index, it was the only knight that at least has a small chance of surviving a round of heavy fire. I think now it can be really hard to bring down...

The Iron Bulwark Warlord Trait gives you a 4+ invulnerable save against shooting, it does not increase your save by one.

Additionally, Rotate Ion Shields increases your invulnerable save to a maximum of 3+

Also the Styrix is leagues better than the Megaera.

That seems a good list to me. I think I’d make the Castellan your warlord with the 4++ trait and go for an admech house so he can have Cawl’s wrath.

Then spend a cp to make your gallant a character too and give him the landstrider trait to boost him and your Armiger. First turn charges for both are feasible.

I’m considering a similar list. The main thing I’d change is to take an admech detachment instead of IG. They are a little more expensive but it lets you use canticles and the knight of the cog stratagem.

On turn 1 you can pick reroll 1s to hit with shooting and give it to your Castellan as he overcharges Cawl’s wrath and fires a missile at some unfortunate character. Later on it might be handy on the gallant to get rerolls of 1s in combat.

The admech guys themselves aren’t really better than the IG, but there are a few shenanigans you can get up to. They’ve got a warlord trait to regain cps, they can repair knights a little bit and stygies guys can infiltrate if you’re prepared to pay for it - which could come in handy sometimes.

I think that being the infantry accompaniment for knights is probably quite a thankless task. There aren’t going to be loads of them and they are going to be shot at by the many enemies that will struggle to hurt the knights.

As such, while they’ll certainly provide a useful cp store, they’ll also give you a far less useful 5 more drops - significantly reducing your chance of getting first turn - and 5 more easy KPs for your opponent. I’m not completely sure this is a good thing overall. It might be, but it needs testing.

So, if I take a gallant in an Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment, does he get the beneftis of household traditions plus can I use Knight stratagems on him i.e. Heirlooms and exalted court?

 Astmeister wrote:

Warden 285 + (75 + 17) + 30 + 4 = 411
Errant 285 + 76 + 30 + 4 = 395
Gallant 285(?) + 30 + 35 + 4 = 354
Warglaive 160 + 4 (includes Thermal Spear and Chaincleaver)
Helverin 170 + 4 (includes Armiger Autocannon)
Paladin 285 + (100 + 4) + 30 + 4 = 423
Crusader 285 + (75 + 17) + (100 + 4) + 4 = 485
Canis Rex 450 (Includes all wargear)
Valiant 500, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Castellan 510, includes Metla and 2 primary weapons for free + weapon options on 3 carapace hardpoints
Preceptor 385 (Includes Las Impulsor) + 30 + 4 = 419

Also, Gallant is now 5 attacks and WS2+.

Thermal Cannon 76
Stormspear 45
Reaper chainsword 30
Gauntlet 35
Avenger Gatling 75
Heavy Flamer 17
Rapid Fire BC 100
Stubber 4
Shieldbreaker Missile 12
Siegebreaker Cannon 35

That Castellan price is without the hardpoint weapons right? Otherwise the difference between the Castellan and the Crusader is smaller than I thought. I am still really undecided which of those two would work better as a fire support ally, guess I'll just wait for battlescribe to update and then make and share some lists to see what people think.

Can you use the strat to make your knight a character and give it a warlord trait then declare it your warlord for a second warlord trait

no. they get the warlord trait AS IF they are a warlord. if they are your warlord they cannot get another one.

Mandragola wrote:
That seems a good list to me. I think I’d make the Castellan your warlord with the 4++ trait and go for an admech house so he can have Cawl’s wrath.

Then spend a cp to make your gallant a character too and give him the landstrider trait to boost him and your Armiger. First turn charges for both are feasible.

I’m considering a similar list. The main thing I’d change is to take an admech detachment instead of IG. They are a little more expensive but it lets you use canticles and the knight of the cog stratagem.

On turn 1 you can pick reroll 1s to hit with shooting and give it to your Castellan as he overcharges Cawl’s wrath and fires a missile at some unfortunate character. Later on it might be handy on the gallant to get rerolls of 1s in combat.

The admech guys themselves aren’t really better than the IG, but there are a few shenanigans you can get up to. They’ve got a warlord trait to regain cps, they can repair knights a little bit and stygies guys can infiltrate if you’re prepared to pay for it - which could come in handy sometimes.

I think that being the infantry accompaniment for knights is probably quite a thankless task. There aren’t going to be loads of them and they are going to be shot at by the many enemies that will struggle to hurt the knights.

As such, while they’ll certainly provide a useful cp store, they’ll also give you a far less useful 5 more drops - significantly reducing your chance of getting first turn - and 5 more easy KPs for your opponent. I’m not completely sure this is a good thing overall. It might be, but it needs testing.

There's enough terrain here that I can hide 1 or 2 infantry squads generally. If he wants to manouver to shoot he'll likely expose himself open for my knights.

Remembered I don't HAVE to have my warlord knight to get warlord traits etc. IG commander to one to get the warlord trait, 3CP to character up 2 of my knights, 3 CP more for 2 relics. 11-6=5 CP. Quite a little but 5+ regene, 5+ steal. 7 and spare+steals in average so about same if opponent uses few strategems only.

Ad mech detachment is out for now unless it's something you can build from forge bane contents but 20 infantry is rather little for infantry and I need 2nd HQ cheaply(money) for that anyway. Actually the dominus is so expensive I cant' fit without dropping something from knights so...I would be looking thus 2 engineers and 3 squads of 5 rangers.

Now albeit who knows maybe I do use them time to time. I never play same lists twice anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iago40k wrote:
So, if I take a gallant in an Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment, does he get the beneftis of household traditions plus can I use Knight stratagems on him i.e. Heirlooms and exalted court?

Unknown yet for first and don't see why not 2nd. For 1st it depends is there similar rule to IG. So far nobody has SAID so but not quarantee.

 Thadin wrote:
Depending on points cost, the Forge Shrine may end up being an autoinclude, shoving a Dominus Knight on it and never leaving so you can keep it at a decent wound count, or max shots on weapons. Refresh a missile may be the lesser choice, depending on how actually effective the shrine is, and how effective the other weapons are. If the shrine max's shots on all weapons, it'll be rather absurd.

The Sacristan Shrine knight scenery piece COULD have been so good...

I'm not one to get angry or rage at GW for shonky rules but I am a bit sad at such a hugely missed opportunity. Paying 80 points and skipping an entire turn to heal d3 wounds?!?!!??!?! Are you crazy??!?!

Here are three ways in which it could have worked which might make it worth taking... in order of preference from 1 to 3.

1. You got the bonus before the negative.
If you end your movement within 1" of the Shrine, in your next shooting phase you get to do one of the standard rites. In your next turn, the knight cannot move, shoot or charge and is reduced to 1 attack.
At least you get the benefit immediately, at full BS on turn one. Then you sacrifice T2 to reload/refuel and can act normally again in T3.

2. The benefits were pretty much tripled
You give up a turn as per standard rules. Then in in the next turn you can either:
- Heal 3d3 wounds
- Fire any one weapon 3 times instead of once
- Move twice in your movement phase as per your current Move characteristic

3. You got all the benefits, not just one.
You give up a turn as per standard rules. Then in your next turn you heal d3 wounds AND fire at maximum capacity AND get a bonus 6".


Anyway, pure theory and wishlisting but if one of the above were the rules it would be an interesting and compelling new model.

As it is, by the time you get a benefit you have skipped a whole turn and are probably hitting on 4's or 5's anyway!

Nuts.

Yeah that shrine is super hyper mega niche. Generally it just ain't worth it. I can think about 1 scenario where that truly would be useful. That's valiant against army that's in 2 parts. One gunline that will begin at ~35" from you and lob at you so you aren't reaching them on turn 1. Other being massed deep strike force that will come down on you on turn 2.

THERE it might be worth it to make sure you make maximum hurt on the deep strike elements.

Rest of time? Unlikely to run into situation where it might be useful.

It's not even going to be any cover for you as it's too small to block LOS so not even purchasable LOS block.

I doubt I would use it much even if it was free...All it does basically is generate bit of area on terrain you have to manouver around. That might be useful to hinder opponents movement but might hinder you as well.

Ironically that usage as enemy movement blocker is about best use it has...

edit: Well same scenario except rather than deep strike regular ground infantry that somehow starts that 35" or so away AND you start the game. And other short ranged knights like gallant but valiant is obviously biggest benefitter from this in this hyper niche scenario.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iago40k wrote:
So, if I take a gallant in an Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment, does he get the beneftis of household traditions plus can I use Knight stratagems on him i.e. Heirlooms and exalted court?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1950/751594.page#10009559

Seems the traditions are listed as what you get for imperial knight detachments(EXCLUDING auxiliary...) so answer would be no after all.

tneva82 wrote:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Iago40k wrote:
So, if I take a gallant in an Super Heavy Auxiliary detachment, does he get the beneftis of household traditions plus can I use Knight stratagems on him i.e. Heirlooms and exalted court?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/1950/751594.page#10009559

Seems the traditions are listed as what you get for imperial knight detachments(EXCLUDING auxiliary...) so answer would be no after all.

Well, bummer there go my plans to get a knight

Well freeblade is pseudo-tradition and seems still legal. Plus warlord&relic&strategems still probably works.

Plus you could get 2 helverins and have the traditions and average 16 S7 -1 D3 shots.

tneva82 wrote:
Well freeblade is pseudo-tradition and seems still legal. Plus warlord&relic&strategems still probably works.

Dunno, It seems to me that the Freeblade stuff is listed in the abilities that can only be taken in the Super Heavy Detachment

 GuardStrider wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well freeblade is pseudo-tradition and seems still legal. Plus warlord&relic&strategems still probably works.

Dunno, It seems to me that the Freeblade stuff is listed in the abilities that can only be taken in the Super Heavy Detachment

Refer to thread I linked. There's more talk there. Promisingly GW in promo material spoke about lone freeblades to support your main army which hints "yes" for freeblades in auxiliary det.

I'm still very much in love with House Terryn.

Waiting on exact wording so I can confirm whether the Outflank works on a unit of Armigers, but if it does then I'm quite excited to unleash martial fury.

We haven't had confirmation but so far IG are the only army where your superheavies don't get regimental tactics in an auxiliary detachment. I'd be surprised if IKs didn't get them.

If all else fails you can take a couple of armigers or helligers. You won't get CPs but you'll be able to make your knight a character for free.

Here's a potential all-knight list. 2000 points on the nose.

Castellan 604
2 turrets and 2 missiles
4++ warlord trait, Cawl's Wrath

Gallant 354
Landstrider warlord trait, maybe

Warden 411
Stock

Crusader 457
Thermal Cannon and Avenger

Helverin 174

My existing guys are house Taranis. I'd stick with that as they seem decent enough.

I've just managed to get a ticket for heat 1 of the 40k GT, and it's actually 1750, not 2k. That's a tricky points value for knights really. It's also in not much over a month's time!Here's a first stab at a list:

Castellan 604
2 turrets and 2 missiles
4++ warlord trait, Cawl's Wrath

Gallant 354
Landstrider warlord trait, maybe

Warden 411
Stock

Tallarn Battalion

Tank commander with punisher and 3 hvy bolters

Tempestor Prime

5 Tempestus Scions

2 infantry squads.

The idea here is to run non-useless IG allies. The tank commander gives me some much-needed anti-horde, the infantry squads can skulk somewhere and the scions can be held back to drop onto objectives.

Fitting in a battalion at 1750 is still really awkward. I'm not at all sure what the best option is, and seriously considering not having one. I've just been looking at sisters as another option, as Celestine would come in very handy. That would mean trading out the Castellan for something smaller though.

There's a screenshot in the News and Rumor thread that says excluding Super-Heavy Auxiliary.

That said, you can still take the House keyword for using stratagems and relics I think. You just won't get the house bonus.