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auticus wrote:
Because not every table will have woods... or if they have a couple woods there is still a whole lot of open space on the table.

People always complain about a "lack of strategy" when it comes to interacting with terrain. It's not my problem that people refuse to put terrain on the board.

Of course as I have stated a billion times, I'm happy with the Look Out Sir compromise (-1 to hit is fairly minor IMO).

I'm not. Not when most ranged units that aren't going to be comprising a huge chunk of your points or Heroes are sitting at 4+/4+ with 0 or -1 Rend and now can be locked into firing at whatever is in 3" of them.

Everyone in the army targeting single characters on foot standing in the middle of their army was ... well... very much not cinematic.

Easy solution: don't stand your characters on foot in the open?

We can still fire willy nilly into combats without hurting our own side but other than that the 2.0 changes by adding Look Out Sir and the woods blocking sight etc did a lot here over the past weekend to bring back a half dozen guys that had been waiting for less non-sensical rules and more immersive rules, so I'll chalk that up as a major victory.

Just so we're clear:
-1 to Hit on Heroes that aren't Monsters(which is a huge chunk of Heroes)
Woods obscuring Line of Sight, completely, if the range measured is at least 1" through a Citadel Wood
Ranged units cannot fire at anything outside of their CC bracket if engaged in combat.

Yeah, yeah, yeah you can "fire willynilly into combats without hurting your own side"--but by that same vein you can lock ranged units from firing outside of their combats by getting in their face.

auticus wrote:
The concept of reserve points are gone. They don't exist anymore.

So these spells work free of charge then? That's pretty good value!

Easy solution: don't stand your characters on foot in the open?

I've probably played about... three hundred or so games of AOS.

True line of sight means that if your character is not hiding the entire game behind something, he's going to be able to be seen and be shot at.

In the vast majority of my games, heroes get killed trying to move into combat, even if they are directly in the middle of friendly units, from massed missile fire against gunline style armies. They were unequivocally NEVER standing out in the open but were fair game to be shot at while they tried to struggle into combat, and even then were fair game if you could see them even if they were in combat. The MOST unnarrative unimmersive ruleset I've ever played in 30 years.

Having played with these rules pretty much for three years now as they were our houserules, in over 300 games using these as houserules (only a bit more extreme, we had Look Out Sir 4+ passing the wound off to a friendly model, not a -1 to hit) and with terrain blocking line of sight, the missile units STILL performed well, so I already know that the doom and gloom about how missile units are now in this pit of despair and are useless (i hear that phrase a lot the last week or so) are blown up, hyperbolic, and not true.

I'm going to side with narrative immersiveness over gamey game play any day.

The only builds this would seriously hurt are gunlines, and while its just my opinion, gunlines are not fun to face, and should have a drawback. They should most definitely not be so common or easy mode like they've been.

Even in 40k, the army centered around guns, no one wants to face gunlines because they are not fun to play against.

I think they gave a compromise. The changes didn't go as far as I would have had them go, but they are compromise enough to bring some narrative immersion back into the game and at least here its netted a return of a half dozen players over the weekend, with another half dozen considering.

Or... my campaign group grew 150 - 300% because they have rules that make sense again. Win in my opinion. Their new rules coming back to a ground of "reality" or "immersion" are, here anyway, increasing the playerbase many times over.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Summoning is strong but as a supplement to an army.

That's really how it's feeling, having actually played a game (Triumph & Treachery: Seraphon vs Khorne vs Sylvaneth vs Tzeentch). Wizard-less lizards (it was double bastiladons ) eventually summoned some skinks thanks to their astrolith bearer; Khorne summoned several skull cannons and only didn't summon a 'thirster because he left it at home; Tizz (me) resummoned some garbage screamers at the very end of the game, having finally reached 10 fate points; Sylvaneth blanketed the table in wild woods until he couldn't place any more. At this point I really like Khorne's mechanic, as you passively get points for doing what you want to be doing + having your stuff die and the chart is *very* compact (i.e. good stuff costs low points) compared to say Tizz's ridiculous one, but I also never played with the Blood Tithe chart when it didn't have summoning too, so I literally don't know what I'm giving up. Seraphon summoning seems more like an armchair mathhammer thing than in game powerhouse, though Kroak does feel like he could be a thing. If a 450 point thing

I guess my other comment is that I still get really frustrated playing Sylvaneth, or at least the wild woods. From the "1-3 wild woods" thing (why the range? make it 1 or D3), to all the buffs that the woods give, to how some things extend 1" off them, or 3", or 6", or not at all (just make the template the template and skip all of these extra measuring). Every time I play them I struggle to remember all the different effects - and then learn more that characters give them - play cautiously, get stung anyway by things that reach off the template, and then just have to muscle through the woods anyway because you literally have no choice. Adding no shooting through woods to them a) makes sense and b) makes me hate them even more. Not hate the concept, I think it's cool that the table overgrows when Sylvaneth is there, but hate the inconsistent execution and how amazing these terrain pieces are.

End of tree rant

FWIW the new edition is fine. Not a mindblowing improvement IMO, but enough has changed to make me want to keep trying. I guess Saturday I was reminded of a bunch of things that make me salty about AOS, and I need to play some 1v1 to get a better feel for what's new and what's exciting to me. Playing the local beastclaw's magma dragon is not one of them

- Salvage

The counter to sylvaneth tree spam is always using proper amounts of terrain in the first place and having board coverage.

You can't place wyldwoods too close to other terrain features, with giant ones being pretty much unplaceable on decently covered boards, or against armies that control the table.

Other than casting close to it, there's only 2 other things that make them do damage. Tree Singing and Awaken the Wood, both of which are a bit easier to dispel now that range has gone to 30"

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Summoning is strong but as a supplement to an army.

That's really how it's feeling, having actually played a game (Triumph & Treachery: Seraphon vs Khorne vs Sylvaneth vs Tzeentch). Wizard-less lizards (it was double bastiladons ) eventually summoned some skinks thanks to their astrolith bearer; Khorne summoned several skull cannons and only didn't summon a 'thirster because he left it at home; Tizz (me) resummoned some garbage screamers at the very end of the game, having finally reached 10 fate points; Sylvaneth blanketed the table in wild woods until he couldn't place any more. At this point I really like Khorne's mechanic, as you passively get points for doing what you want to be doing + having your stuff die and the chart is *very* compact (i.e. good stuff costs low points) compared to say Tizz's ridiculous one, but I also never played with the Blood Tithe chart when it didn't have summoning too, so I literally don't know what I'm giving up. Seraphon summoning seems more like an armchair mathhammer thing than in game powerhouse, though Kroak does feel like he could be a thing. If a 450 point thing

I guess my other comment is that I still get really frustrated playing Sylvaneth, or at least the wild woods. From the "1-3 wild woods" thing (why the range? make it 1 or D3), to all the buffs that the woods give, to how some things extend 1" off them, or 3", or 6", or not at all (just make the template the template and skip all of these extra measuring). Every time I play them I struggle to remember all the different effects - and then learn more that characters give them - play cautiously, get stung anyway by things that reach off the template, and then just have to muscle through the woods anyway because you literally have no choice. Adding no shooting through woods to them a) makes sense and b) makes me hate them even more. Not hate the concept, I think it's cool that the table overgrows when Sylvaneth is there, but hate the inconsistent execution and how amazing these terrain pieces are.

End of tree rant

FWIW the new edition is fine. Not a mindblowing improvement IMO, but enough has changed to make me want to keep trying. I guess Saturday I was reminded of a bunch of things that make me salty about AOS, and I need to play some 1v1 to get a better feel for what's new and what's exciting to me. Playing the local beastclaw's magma dragon is not one of them

- Salvage

Was your opponent using all their current errata? I've heard that things like Treelord Wild-wood Summoning has been made to be one per turn, per army now... so its much harder to outright spam them.

 knas wrote:

auticus wrote:
The concept of reserve points are gone. They don't exist anymore.

So these spells work free of charge then? That's pretty good value!

No, all those spells are now gone. There is no "Summon Pink Horrors" spell anymore, for example. The GHB includes the errata that removes all those.

To be very clear though, its MOST of those spells are gone. The sylvaneth, for example, have a summon dryad spell still that summons 10 free dryads that is still a spell (it used to summon 2d6 dryads now its just a flat 10)

auticus wrote:

Easy solution: don't stand your characters on foot in the open?

I've probably played about... three hundred or so games of AOS.

True line of sight means that if your character is not hiding the entire game behind something, he's going to be able to be seen and be shot at.

In the vast majority of my games, heroes get killed trying to move into combat, even if they are directly in the middle of friendly units, from massed missile fire against gunline style armies. They were unequivocally NEVER standing out in the open but were fair game to be shot at while they tried to struggle into combat, and even then were fair game if you could see them even if they were in combat. The MOST unnarrative unimmersive ruleset I've ever played in 30 years.

Then that's on you and your board setups. The tables I play on, there was enough LOS blocking that this wasn't an issue. I struggled a bit, to be honest, using my Wanderers early on before the addition of their Allegiance ability since while there was no "penalty" for shooting while in combat(y'know, other than your pricey shooting troops getting hacked down--things like that), exiting a combat made it a far less fun thing for myself to deal with anyone in CC.

And before Ninth chimes in, I don't expect my ranged units to be able to just totally wreck someone in a single turn. I'd like them to be able to do something to some units without having to burn a once per game ability(Arcane Bodkins) though.

Having played with these rules pretty much for three years now as they were our houserules, in over 300 games using these as houserules (only a bit more extreme, we had Look Out Sir 4+ passing the wound off to a friendly model, not a -1 to hit) and with terrain blocking line of sight, the missile units STILL performed well, so I already know that the doom and gloom about how missile units are now in this pit of despair and are useless (i hear that phrase a lot the last week or so) are blown up, hyperbolic, and not true.

So you literally did not have "these as houserules". Passing a wound off to a friendly model is VERY different to a -1 to hit. Passing a wound off to a friendly model still kills something, potentially, while a -1 to hit means that the wound potentially never happens.

I'm going to side with narrative immersiveness over gamey game play any day.

The only builds this would seriously hurt are gunlines, and while its just my opinion, gunlines are not fun to face, and should have a drawback. They should most definitely not be so common or easy mode like they've been.

You keep talking about these "gunlines" like they're a thing. Show some lists, man. I want to know what people are using that it's a game over in 1 turn.

Because honestly, if the argument is still hinging around Skyfires or Skaven shooting? That's like me saying that summoning is broke because of Nurgle.

Even in 40k, the army centered around guns, no one wants to face gunlines because they are not fun to play against.

By that same vein, in 40k nobody wants to face the all melee spamlists that are in your face turn 1 locking you down. They literally just gave us a beta rule to deal with this.

I think they gave a compromise. The changes didn't go as far as I would have had them go, but they are compromise enough to bring some narrative immersion back into the game and at least here its netted a return of a half dozen players over the weekend, with another half dozen considering.

Or... my campaign group grew 150 - 300% because they have rules that make sense again. Win in my opinion. Their new rules coming back to a ground of "reality" or "immersion" are, here anyway, increasing the playerbase many times over.

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this isn't "reality" or "immersion". It's the cheapest way to to 'balance' things like Skyfires while not actually balancing them.

auticus wrote:
To be very clear though, its MOST of those spells are gone. The sylvaneth, for example, have a summon dryad spell still that summons 10 free dryads that is still a spell (it used to summon 2d6 dryads now its just a flat 10)

True that. The question was about Tzeentch, and those are all gone (at least, as far as I can tell/remember). But some other factions' summon spells may be still in place and tweaked.

It will be interesting to see how things play out in our group. We're mostly semi-casual, but one of our group plays Kharadron which may still be a bit of an uphill battle, perhaps even more so with the summoning spam that the Seraphon, Tzeentch, Legion of Nagash/Nighthaunts are going to be throwing out there.

Warhammer fantasy has always been the oppsite of 40k. Its very hard for a pure shooting army to work, just like a pure meele in 40k. Im glad that AoS is going again to a more meele centered meta. I know it sucks for you Kanluwen, but I believe is good for both games to have different feelings.

But to be honest, I play Khorne and destruction jorde with ogres, orcs and goblins, SO im clearly biased towards meele. But my favourite games are against dwarfs. Nothing more epic than my meele horde charging a fortified dwarf position, with artillery fire raining and the epic meele vs the steel wall of the dwarven infantr.

I use "gunline" simply because if you have a mixed list then having a -1 to hit is so minor it shouldn't even be an issue for you. The only people I can see that this negatively impacts in such a way are people running all gunlines.

Missile units still can do quite a bit in the game. They just cannot do it with impunity anymore.

Don't know what to say other than that. If you favor an army that is predominantly missile weapons then like with any wargame that ever existed, you need to examine how to get around the same wargaming constructs that exist in most eveyr game... that being line of sight blocking and having missile units locked in combat. AOS was the outlier... it was literally the only wargame ever that let missile troops not care about anything and just do what they wanted, and now they need screens and the like as well.

And you're right, the 4+ pass off the wound is easier for shooting troops because it at least lets them match their damage output (whcih is why I chose that route) and it was still hammered hard by people hating on it. All I was saying is that missile units were still killing heroes even with our look out sir fairly reliably if they were fielding dedicated gunline armies (where the majority of their models had a ranged attack profile of some kind). -1 to hit is so very minor, and they also have the ability to simply just target the unit for full effect if they want. THERES AN ACTUAL CHOICE TO BE MADE NOW whereas before... why would you never shoot everything possible into the characters? No penalties, can do it if you can see Lord Bob's little finger, why not do it?

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this isn't "reality" or "immersion". It's the cheapest way to to 'balance' things like Skyfires while not actually balancing them.

In your opinion sure.

I don't agree with your opinion though. These are now rules that to me make a little bit more sense than the nonsense that was the first pass at AOS for the last three years. Its also brought back a ton more of my old players for that very reason.

At this point wer'e just going back and forth over personal preference. The pendulum swang back in my direction this time. Just as I have said for years on this board... the pendulum swings and the rules direction changes every few years. Just as it will swing again in a few years.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Was your opponent using all their current errata? I've heard that things like Treelord Wild-wood Summoning has been made to be one per turn, per army now... so its much harder to outright spam them.

His Treelord was definitely summoning them every turn, or trying to anyway (4+ roll I think). He explained that there are ~4 ways to summon them, and each way has different rules, then he explained them, but whenever I play against Sylvaneth my eyes glaze over because why isn't this consistent?! But I'll let him know next time I see play him.

Valander wrote:The question was about Tzeentch, and those are all gone (at least, as far as I can tell/remember). But some other factions' summon spells may be still in place and tweaked.

Related, one of the daemonic powers for Tizz is 'Mark of the Conjurer', which gives +1 to summoning spells. I'm still trying to figure out what it actually does in the new edition, as it wasn't errata'd

- Salvage

 Boss Salvage wrote:

Valander wrote:The question was about Tzeentch, and those are all gone (at least, as far as I can tell/remember). But some other factions' summon spells may be still in place and tweaked.

Related, one of the daemonic powers for Tizz is 'Mark of the Conjurer', which gives +1 to summoning spells. I'm still trying to figure out what it actually does in the new edition, as it wasn't errata'd

- Salvage

Good catch. It's quite possible either there is still some summoning spell somewhere (I haven't sat with the list and done a warscroll-by-warscroll audit), or they just completely forgot about that one and it's a useless ability now.

 Boss Salvage wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:Was your opponent using all their current errata? I've heard that things like Treelord Wild-wood Summoning has been made to be one per turn, per army now... so its much harder to outright spam them.

His Treelord was definitely summoning them every turn, or trying to anyway (4+ roll I think). He explained that there are ~4 ways to summon them, and each way has different rules, then he explained them, but whenever I play against Sylvaneth my eyes glaze over because why isn't this consistent?! But I'll let him know next time I see play him.

Valander wrote:The question was about Tzeentch, and those are all gone (at least, as far as I can tell/remember). But some other factions' summon spells may be still in place and tweaked.

Related, one of the daemonic powers for Tizz is 'Mark of the Conjurer', which gives +1 to summoning spells. I'm still trying to figure out what it actually does in the new edition, as it wasn't errata'd

- Salvage[forest.
]

There's silent communion, which is the treelord ancients ability that works on a 4+.
There's acorn of ages, which is a relic that once per game makes a forest.
There's verdant blessing, which is a spell that goes off on a 6+
Theres metamorphosis, which is alarielles spell; it does a variable amount of mortal wounds on a 4+, killing a unit with it makes a forest.

It's important to note that silent communion requires each wood be set up within 15" and not within 3" of anything else, so that you really don't have a ton of options for new woods after turn 2.

They all have different mechanics because they're all different abilities; usually the harder they are to get off, the less restrictive they are on the placement

 Valander wrote:

 Boss Salvage wrote:

Valander wrote:The question was about Tzeentch, and those are all gone (at least, as far as I can tell/remember). But some other factions' summon spells may be still in place and tweaked.

Related, one of the daemonic powers for Tizz is 'Mark of the Conjurer', which gives +1 to summoning spells. I'm still trying to figure out what it actually does in the new edition, as it wasn't errata'd

- Salvage

Good catch. It's quite possible either there is still some summoning spell somewhere (I haven't sat with the list and done a warscroll-by-warscroll audit), or they just completely forgot about that one and it's a useless ability now.

Pass it on up to the FAQ team and see if it gets answered in the FAQ.

AoSFAQ@gwplc.com

So to recap:

1. Silent Communion [Treelord Ancient] - 4+ place a wyldwood every turn, wholly within 24" and 3" away from everything
2. Acorn of Ages [Artefact] - Place a wyldwood within 5", once a game
3. Verdant Blessing [Spell (6)] - Place a wyldwood within 18"
4. Metamorphosis [Alarielle Spell (5)] - 16" nuke, 6-12 dice of 4+ mortal wounds, if unit dies place a wyldwood but 1" away from everything

Commentary:
1. I checked, errata doesn't mention once per game. Mostly they cleaned up the language and extended the range from 15" to 24"
2. Eh, once per game, short range, artefact slot
3. Sweet I can dispel that
4. Holy crap that spell, but sweet I can dispel that - and it may be relevant, as this Sylvaneth dude really wants to run Alarielle, who seems pretty bonkers O_O (I mean, she is a god ...)

EDIT Tizz question submitted!

- Salvage

They changed the range on communion from 15” to 24” because they also changed it from within to wholly within.

Ah so. Happy to see "wholly within" being a thing in AOS / GW verbiage. Very familiar from other games (WMH primarily), the distinction is nice + avoids obnoxious daisy chaining into combat and whatever.

- Salvage

A board with enough terrain makes it really hard to get more than 2 or 3 wyldwoods, even with silent communion.

And yea alarielle is quite good right now because she has a 200 point discount built in

 Boss Salvage wrote:

 Hulksmash wrote:
Summoning is strong but as a supplement to an army.

That's really how it's feeling, having actually played a game (Triumph & Treachery: Seraphon vs Khorne vs Sylvaneth vs Tzeentch). Wizard-less lizards (it was double bastiladons ) eventually summoned some skinks thanks to their astrolith bearer; Khorne summoned several skull cannons and only didn't summon a 'thirster because he left it at home; Tizz (me) resummoned some garbage screamers at the very end of the game, having finally reached 10 fate points; Sylvaneth blanketed the table in wild woods until he couldn't place any more. At this point I really like Khorne's mechanic, as you passively get points for doing what you want to be doing + having your stuff die and the chart is *very* compact (i.e. good stuff costs low points) compared to say Tizz's ridiculous one, but I also never played with the Blood Tithe chart when it didn't have summoning too, so I literally don't know what I'm giving up. Seraphon summoning seems more like an armchair mathhammer thing than in game powerhouse, though Kroak does feel like he could be a thing. If a 450 point thing

I guess my other comment is that I still get really frustrated playing Sylvaneth, or at least the wild woods. From the "1-3 wild woods" thing (why the range? make it 1 or D3), to all the buffs that the woods give, to how some things extend 1" off them, or 3", or 6", or not at all (just make the template the template and skip all of these extra measuring). Every time I play them I struggle to remember all the different effects - and then learn more that characters give them - play cautiously, get stung anyway by things that reach off the template, and then just have to muscle through the woods anyway because you literally have no choice. Adding no shooting through woods to them a) makes sense and b) makes me hate them even more. Not hate the concept, I think it's cool that the table overgrows when Sylvaneth is there, but hate the inconsistent execution and how amazing these terrain pieces are.

End of tree rant

FWIW the new edition is fine. Not a mindblowing improvement IMO, but enough has changed to make me want to keep trying. I guess Saturday I was reminded of a bunch of things that make me salty about AOS, and I need to play some 1v1 to get a better feel for what's new and what's exciting to me. Playing the local beastclaw's magma dragon is not one of them

- Salvage

You and your opponents combined didn’t reach ten spells cast until the end of the game? I suppose when you have that many players who can each try to unblind, that might be, but in a normal game you should reach 10 points in a couple of turns if your opponent is also casting.

Warscroll builder on the website is now updated with the new points values and units and endless spells!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warscroll-builder/

 Mymearan wrote:
You and your opponents combined didn’t reach ten spells cast until the end of the game? I suppose when you have that many players who can each try to unblind, that might be, but in a normal game you should reach 10 points in a couple of turns if your opponent is also casting.

Yea, end game was 11 spells cast I believe? 5 wizards on my side (0 of them LOC), 2 Sylvaneth wizards, none for lizards or kr0n. I shut the trees down, and had some woeful casting rolls, even with +1 on the horrors from the herald's presence, along with a first turn where I was out of range for most spells. In fact I ended up burning most of my destiny dice just to get some spells cast in Turn 3

- Salvage

 Galas wrote:
Warhammer fantasy has always been the oppsite of 40k. Its very hard for a pure shooting army to work, just like a pure meele in 40k. Im glad that AoS is going again to a more meele centered meta. I know it sucks for you Kanluwen, but I believe is good for both games to have different feelings.

See, but the difference is that there are very few "pure shooting armies" in the game. You can make armies that are pure shooting by ignoring melee units(Stormcast with Judicators, Skyfire Tzeentch, etc) but the only armies that purely were designed around shooting are few and far between. Wanderers were a big one in this regard.

But to be honest, I play Khorne and destruction jorde with ogres, orcs and goblins, SO im clearly biased towards meele. But my favourite games are against dwarfs. Nothing more epic than my meele horde charging a fortified dwarf position, with artillery fire raining and the epic meele vs the steel wall of the dwarven infantr.

The funny part is that I'm absolutely, 100% not against melee getting a big buff. I just don't agree with Auticus' reasoning here. His argument is seemingly centered around people playing on tables with such barren terrain density that they might as well just throw some cardboard cereal boxes on the table and call it a day when it comes to setting up scenery.

Either we needed the terrain obscuring feature(I won't argue that one--I'm personally for it, if only because now I don't have to feel badly about running my Waywatchers anymore) or we needed the -1 to be hit for characters.

SLIGHT RANT AHEAD IN SPOILERS

The problem is true line of sight. You can nearly always draw line of sight to pretty much anything you want. And if you're playing at a GW store... you are beholden to GW terrain. And nearly all GW terrain fails at blocking line of sight in any meaningful manner.

 Valander wrote:

 knas wrote:

auticus wrote:
The concept of reserve points are gone. They don't exist anymore.

So these spells work free of charge then? That's pretty good value!

No, all those spells are now gone. There is no "Summon Pink Horrors" spell anymore, for example. The GHB includes the errata that removes all those.

I wasn't talking about the summoning spells but rather spells like the Ogroid's Fireblast which creates a brim for every model slain or the Magister's Bolt of Change turning slain creatures into chaos spawns. Are those free now? It used to be they cost reserve points.

 knas wrote:

 Valander wrote:

 knas wrote:

auticus wrote:
The concept of reserve points are gone. They don't exist anymore.

So these spells work free of charge then? That's pretty good value!

No, all those spells are now gone. There is no "Summon Pink Horrors" spell anymore, for example. The GHB includes the errata that removes all those.

I wasn't talking about the summoning spells but rather spells like the Ogroid's Fireblast which creates a brim for every model slain or the Magister's Bolt of Change turning slain creatures into chaos spawns. Are those free now? It used to be they cost reserve points.

No points for those, though the Ogroid's spell did change (or at least, it's in magenta in the newest FAQ):

Page 127 – Ogroid Thaumaturge, Fireblast
Change the last sentence to:
‘After the damage has been inflicted, you can set up 1
unit of Brimstone Horrors within 1" of the target; the
number of models set up in the new unit is equal to the
number of mortal wounds inflicted.’

But yeah, no reserve points for it.

 knas wrote:

 Valander wrote:

 knas wrote:

auticus wrote:
The concept of reserve points are gone. They don't exist anymore.

So these spells work free of charge then? That's pretty good value!

No, all those spells are now gone. There is no "Summon Pink Horrors" spell anymore, for example. The GHB includes the errata that removes all those.

I wasn't talking about the summoning spells but rather spells like the Ogroid's Fireblast which creates a brim for every model slain or the Magister's Bolt of Change turning slain creatures into chaos spawns. Are those free now? It used to be they cost reserve points.

Any changes to those rules can be found in the appropriate FAQs and Designer's Commentaries.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

auticus wrote:
The problem is true line of sight. You can nearly always draw line of sight to pretty much anything you want. And if you're playing at a GW store... you are beholden to GW terrain. And nearly all GW terrain fails at blocking line of sight in any meaningful manner.

Which means nothing when you literally have a rule now about obscured.

If I'm playing at a GW store and they have Citadel Woods on the table, any shots going beyond 1" on them no longer work unless one or both units have fly.

In regards to wyldwood summoning/spam, a point I've seen people miss is that all the woods have to be within 1" of each other. If you have three woods each must be within 1" of both the others; you cannot chain them out in a line.