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ERJAK wrote: If the trees block LoS now, I can guarantee you 100% that slyvaneth players are gonna need to get good at navigating those woods with the trees in them. No way in HELL is anyone gonna let you put models where the trees are supposed to go anymore. Otherwise you're looking at 30 invisible dryads and an invisible Durthu just camping out an objective.
Being able to remove the trees has less to do with being able to place models there and more to do with you accidentally snagging your finger on a branch and sending the terrain piece, and the models on it, for a ride.
Nighthaunt Allegiance Abilities via War of Sigmar:
Spoiler:
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
AduroT wrote: So how Do people play the trees on the woods? Removable and abstract, or they are stuck there and they block movement?
One of the community articles specifically mentions that they're supposed to be stuck and block movement. It specifically mentions placing them in ways that control the movement or larger models.
Kanluwen wrote: Really impressed by the Nighthaunt stuff. Battalions are niiice.
You can see some of the other battalions HERE as long as you don't mind /tg/.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Another excellent use of Wyldwoods is area denial. Let’s say you’re facing a Beastclaw Raiders force with a Frostlord on Stonehorn and a couple Huskards on Thundertusks. They come on a 120x92mm oval base, which is too large to fit between the tree trunks in a Citadel Wood (and just as you wouldn’t disregard the area occupied by a building, it seems odd to disregard the area occupied by the tree trunks!). Wyldwoods give you a way to slow them down and “funnel” them in more favorable directions.
That does seem to imply the trunks should be static.
Kanluwen wrote: Really impressed by the Nighthaunt stuff. Battalions are niiice.
You can see some of the other battalions HERE as long as you don't mind /tg/.
Sadly I do...are they on Reddit?
No idea as I'm not really familiar with Reddit.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
ERJAK wrote: If the trees block LoS now, I can guarantee you 100% that slyvaneth players are gonna need to get good at navigating those woods with the trees in them. No way in HELL is anyone gonna let you put models where the trees are supposed to go anymore. Otherwise you're looking at 30 invisible dryads and an invisible Durthu just camping out an objective.
Being able to remove the trees has less to do with being able to place models there and more to do with you accidentally snagging your finger on a branch and sending the terrain piece, and the models on it, for a ride.
Yeah, that's the story the sylvaneth players have been using to make sure their units of 9 bow Kurnoths get cover since the dam book came out.
I'm actually disappointed with the Knight-Zephyros just being Naeve with a helmet on though. There was potential for a very interesting model release left unrealized. Guess I'll convert one instead.
Oh, thought I should add this bit:
Spoiler:
PS: Read the Starsoul Mace bit. Can't waaaaaaaaaaaait for that to get widely circulated.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/07/04 22:23:39
Hm, interesting change to starsouls. A slight nerf in average output (from 2 to 1.83) and a slight nerf in consistency. I don't think it's enough to mitigate how strong they are but I will say it's a good change.
In case anyone didn't want to click through, here's another important tidbit:
First, the Scions of the Storm rule doesn't need a roll anymore but happen at the end of the movement phase. Except this, it's identical as it still count as your movement for the phase and the models must be set up more than 9” away. Also note that if you didn't deployed at the start of the 4th turn they count as lost.
Shock and awe : -1 hit roll against friendly SE that were set up on the battlefield during the same turn.
Stormhosts : 8 hosts you may choose from that add each: 1 ability , 1 command ability, 1 command trait that you must use and one artifact of power you must take,
I'm a big fan of the way the book seems to be shaping up. Some of the power is still there for sure, but it also seems like it's been toned down.
I really want to see how my Vanguard are shaking up.
Woa that -1 hit when they show up coupled with automatic is a big buff, only slightly offset by it being end of the movement phase. I hope some other areas of their allegiance have been toned down to compensate.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Woa that -1 hit when they show up coupled with automatic is a big buff, only slightly offset by it being end of the movement phase. I hope some other areas of their allegiance have been toned down to compensate.
He says that it's unchanged aside from those specifics mentioned.
The "4th turn" bit, for example, makes a big shift---if you don't deploy at the start of the 4th turn, anything in the Celestial Realm is counted as slain. That's huge compared to "end of the game".
You're still tied to the 9" from any enemy models and it's your move for that turn.
I have literally never seen a Stormcast army not deploy everything by 4th turn even when they had to roll randomly, let alone when they don't. That's a formality, not a nerf. I guess it keeps them from dropping things onto objectives on the very last round but that is a very specific context which would only make the difference in maybe on in twenty games, if that.
As for the rest of the allegiance I should have specified meaning the command traits/artifacts/prayers. With the Sacrosanct chamber Stormcast are also well into the Legions of Nagash issue where they have a strong set of allegiance abilities to compensate for a restrictive army list that they don't actually have. Idoneth or Kharadron allegiance would be OP as hell if they could draw from all Aelves or all Duardin as part of their faction, for example.
NinthMusketeer wrote: I have literally never seen a Stormcast army not deploy everything by 4th turn even when they had to roll randomly, let alone when they don't. That's a formality, not a nerf. I guess it keeps them from dropping things onto objectives on the very last round but that is a very specific context which would only make the difference in maybe on in twenty games, if that.
My understanding is that there was a few goofy lists that used the Celestant-Prime for this kind of thing.
As for the rest of the allegiance I should have specified meaning the command traits/artifacts/prayers. With the Sacrosanct chamber Stormcast are also well into the Legions of Nagash issue where they have a strong set of allegiance abilities to compensate for a restrictive army list that they don't actually have. Idoneth or Kharadron allegiance would be OP as hell if they could draw from all Aelves or all Duardin as part of their faction, for example.
Well, you're locked into a specific Command Trait and one specific Artifact if you take a Stormhost so there's that thing at least.
That's something I approve of. The whole idea behind them is to be thematic after all.
As a sidenote on CPrime, I find him funny because he's counter intuitive and many people think he's bad because they use him how he's -intended- to be used. Which is keep him in reserve a few rounds to get extra attacks with Ghal Maraz. How you should actually use him is bring him in round 1, camp him in the back, and drop meteors using his celestial whatsit to max out the aoe every time.
The following comment was left on the War of Sigmar review:
Spoiler:
Norrikan wrote:I have the book myself now, so here are some thoughts on the rules.
The bad:
- Knight-Zephyros is Neave, except a lot worse. The loss of Nemesis is awful. I had hoped for better.
- The Lord-Exorcist is possible the most pointless model in the army. Such a narrow role and such poor tools. Gorgeous model though.
- Restriction of named characters to Hammers of Sigmar keyword makes sense, but I dislike losing a bunch of count-as heroes. Call me biased.
- Lord-Ordinator nerf is probably warranted, but the replacement ability is boring and makes no thematic sense.
- All variants of the Lords-Arcanum are some flavor of weird. There are some good spells and command abilities in there, but they are spread over several warscrolls and none of them is what I'd call conventionally good on the whole.
- Desolators and Prosecutors did nothing to really warrant a nerf. Nobody was playing them anyway.
- None of the Stormhosts are all that appealing bar Anvils for a absurdly strong Command Ability and Tempest Lords for being able to generate mad CPs. Getting locked into relics makes no sense from a lore perspective, either
The good:
- Gavriel went from terrible to amazing.
- Unified stormbreath for all dracothian guard is convenient.
- Celestant-Prime buffs are neat.
- Starsoul maces are sensible and more engaging now.
- Tempestors, Vanguard-Raptors and Protectors all offer very interesting auras now, which I love.
- Judicators with 3 attacks baseline. Great!
- Relics, spells and traits galore.
- Severe nerfs to practically all warscroll battalions.
- Lots of quality of life changes that makes for smoother game play, which I always appreciate.
Sorry for the long text. Just had to get this off my chest. Overall, the book seems a great step forward in terms of gameplay and has a lot of very good changes in it, but some things totally baffle me.
Beyond rules, the book has a lot of lore for the units and especially the named characters, a detailed look into the reforging process, gorgeous art (that tower in Sigmareon...) and some great lore tidbits. The only bit there I didn't really like were some exceedingly ugle portraits, which I felt were trying too hard to make stormcast edgy and dark. Still, I can strongly recommend it to anyone with interest in the SCE's lore.
I'm interested to see the Vanguard-Raptors' aura.
Also, the Lord-Ordinator no longer has the "Engineer" keyword from what someone else said.
If you guys want to know everything about the new Battletome then just listen to Facehammer. Their Stormcast Battletome review is nearly 4 hours long and goes through EVERYTHING.
http://facehammer.co.uk
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Knight wrote: Gavriel is getting fielded on Saturday. As I understand, the command ability stacks and his seems absurdly good with deep striking.
The SCE lore of magic is rather disappointing. Various flavour of spamming mortal wounds.
I won't pick any Stormhosts, there are artefacts that I'd like to try and no benefit really tempts me.
Gavriels Command ability works on HAMMERS OF SIGMAR only. So either you take that Stormhost or you won’t have much use for him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/05 10:44:40
Sad at the hammering vanguard wing too. All the unmodified 6 rolls now hurt a bunch of the combos you could use to make meager liberators actual damage dealers.
Point for point and wound for wound Liberators are supremely outclassed battleline infantry when compared to the battleline options of any of the updated books (i.e. once they started getting traits and such). I mean when Arkonaught companies look good in comparison for the points you know there is something wrong.
I've got some ideas to keep it at least mildly competitive but Stormcast I think are not top tier anymore competitive wise. But they'll still be fairly strong just below that level and at local events. A lot of changes make them more fun to play against at that level so there is that.
So crazy to see the competitive difference between SCE and Night Haunt when they are coming out together.
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
I think from a "for fun" perspective, the stormcast are still plenty strong.
The problem with chasing the competitive dragon is that the strong broken armies change so rapidly that you have to constantly buy and paint a new force on the regular.
auticus wrote: I think from a "for fun" perspective, the stormcast are still plenty strong.
The problem with chasing the competitive dragon is that the strong broken armies change so rapidly that you have to constantly buy and paint a new force on the regular.
Agreed with both. Just sad cause that's one my smaller collections so it can't bounce back as easy as say my Seraphon, Sylvaneth or my currently in progress Night Haunt. Besides, I have my good in a "for fun" armies already (Ironjawz, Mixed Order, Beastmen, and FEC) so I didn't want another one. Especially one painted so well to join them
Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)
They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016)
The Lord Ordinator was one of very few models that helped my "mostly old-world Dwarf" mixed-Order list somewhat viable. Without him helping my artillery, I guess that one chance to not be absolutely trash-tier, is gone. :-p
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
4980pts Total (4980pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)