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Seeing the Ankh display case moves it up for me. This miniatures are SICK. Looks like they wanted to compete a little more with Mythic Battles on god sculpts.
First they've got to get through this Trudvang campaign. It's sad. Doesn't look bad, the initial buy- in is reasonable with current stretch goals included, (and not commenting on shipping costs) , but this has been seriously hemorrhaging both backers and money.
Pretty sure at one point they'd surpassed the 1.150k goal but it's lost about 20k since then.
Maybe once GenCon is over they'll do something about it? I've never seen one of their campaigns spiral like this before.
HATE had some moments where it took some dips I remember, but I can't think of another CMON campaign that's shot up quickly and started to sag back down. They've still got time to right things....
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
highlord tamburlaine wrote: First they've got to get through this Trudvang campaign. It's sad. Doesn't look bad, the initial buy- in is reasonable with current stretch goals included, (and not commenting on shipping costs) , but this has been seriously hemorrhaging both backers and money.
Pretty sure at one point they'd surpassed the 1.150k goal but it's lost about 20k since then.
Maybe once GenCon is over they'll do something about it? I've never seen one of their campaigns spiral like this before.
It's passed the 150k mark at least 4 times the past week so it's been yo-yoing quite a lot but pretty much took a free fall yesterday as it's down over 10k now. Backer wise it still has more the HATE, ASOIAF, pretty much most things that aren't zombiecide related or area control which is why I think CMoN got greedy with their stretch goals and killed the momentum. Pretty conflicted as I really want to the game but with ANKH and Defiance this winter as well as Monolith Conan coming back to KSer in January that's a lot of things back-to-back that I'll need to save up for. Conan might be the cheapest since it's a 1.5 reprint with only a few new things from the sounds of it and I got the vast majority in the first one. I've dropped all the non-gameplay addons as the art book just looks like a reprint of the one I've had and CMoN has ignored all questions from people asking if it's different which leaves me to believe it's the same as you think they'd want to entice Bonner fans for a new book with just a simple 'yes' and I've never cared about upgraded tokens.
Duncan_Idaho wrote: Solomon Kane had quite some dips, but never as bad as this one.
Yeah, and Mythic worked really hard to show why all the cardboard was worth backers' money.
CMON just doesn't seem to really care. I wonder if this campaign is the peak for FOMO mega projects from established companies. It seems like a number of recent big profile projects have struggled more and more, leading to Trudvang whose backer count has been steadily sliding despite massive interest in the beginning.
I also think that shipping is playing a major part here, up to bloodborne USA based CMON backer paid substantially less for it that those that lived elsewhere,
but with Bloodborne that seemed to change and they ended up paying much closer to the actual cost of shipping (which wasn't communicated well during the actual KS generating lots of anger)
so now we get Trudvang which does admit the shipping is going to be a realistic number and I think a fair few of the US folk who've been backing anything CMON and depending on selling them on if they don't like them (or buying 2 and flipping one to try and pay for the other) have been scared off.
Wow, this should drop below a million before the end of the day. Hope CMoN has something awesome planned as just posting a link to a youtube video of someone's review clearly isn't helping.
They've apparently been in meetings about it all day now people are back from gencon (according to their collaborator in the comments) and have a plan for something impressive late tomorrow
but I fear it's basically too late a lot of those who've gone aren't going to be back
but I suppose if the toss in a bunch of extra stuff (a la Mantic with a staled project) they'll ensure people don't drop out early next time anticipating the next give away
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/05 21:48:45
Big oof Trudvang campaign
Is buckets of nice plastic miniatures sold 1.5 years in advance to CMON what well sculpted original aesthetic metals was to Rackham? Only time will tell. It is important to keep in mind that they are still over a million dollars... For now.
I feel sorry for people with an emotional connection to the setting who can't wait for some great Trudvang minis. I really felt your pain during the Solomon Kane campaign and it is no fun.
> Is buckets of nice plastic miniatures sold 1.5 years in advance to CMON what well sculpted original aesthetic metals was to Rackham?
I thought Rackham's mistake was entering the prepaint market from the unpainted metal one?
> I feel sorry for people with an emotional connection to the setting who can't wait for some great Trudvang minis.
Trudvang wouldn't have been possible through traditional retail, so I don't. The chart looks bad because of all that red, but, at over $1M, this KS is still doing better than other CMON KS that weren't meant to be blockbusters.
Still, CMON needs to show that they listen to backers, not require a minor revolt to take action.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/06 02:02:24
ced1106 wrote: > Is buckets of nice plastic miniatures sold 1.5 years in advance to CMON what well sculpted original aesthetic metals was to Rackham?
I thought Rackham's mistake was entering the prepaint market from the unpainted metal one?
> I feel sorry for people with an emotional connection to the setting who can't wait for some great Trudvang minis.
Trudvang wouldn't have been possible through traditional retail, so I don't. The chart looks bad because of all that red, but, at over $1M, this KS is still doing better than other CMON KS that weren't meant to be blockbusters.
Still, CMON needs to show that they listen to backers, not require a minor revolt to take action.
Yes, the idea is that CMON is trying to venture outside the buckets of nice plastic miniatures model with Trudvang, which only has half the miniatures of similarly priced alternative games.
I don't think Trudvang will clear a million without a big revamp to the value proposition: namely miniatures.
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: I also think that shipping is playing a major part here, up to bloodborne USA based CMON backer paid substantially less for it that those that lived elsewhere,
but with Bloodborne that seemed to change and they ended up paying much closer to the actual cost of shipping (which wasn't communicated well during the actual KS generating lots of anger)
so now we get Trudvang which does admit the shipping is going to be a realistic number and I think a fair few of the US folk who've been backing anything CMON and depending on selling them on if they don't like them (or buying 2 and flipping one to try and pay for the other) have been scared off.
Ya i can honestly say shipping is enough to not want anyone to buy two with the thought of flipping especially even years after the release people still want to pay the same you paid and want you to ship it for free. The lack of being able to flip any extras has been a hard sticking point for recent Kickstarters as the time that you pay shipping to you, and then to ship to another ate away any potential profit that you may have had considering people aren't willing to pay any more then you did initally. I tried it with two games, I bought two copies in KS and planned to keep one and sale onee but the demand was never high enough to break even with shipping and everyone wants to low ball the hell out of you. I would never gamble with it again, reguardless the value. There used to be some backers on their buying 10-15 at a time. Those days are surely over.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/06 02:42:21
> Yes, the idea is that CMON is trying to venture outside the buckets of nice plastic miniatures model with Trudvang, which only has half the miniatures of similarly priced alternative games.
Ah, that too! I was thinking that the theme, artist, and IP limited it to campaign, Trudvang RPG, and Paul Bonner fans. (Not too many RPG-based boardgames, except the D&D Adventure System boardgames) CMON has released boardgames with fewer miniatures, but mostly through retail (eg. Godfather, Grizzled). Xenoshyft was a KS non-miniature game, but I'm not seeing support for it nowadays, and saw it on clearance at Miniature Market If you wanted a campaign with a storyline, you already pledged for Middara (not to mention already picked up Descent, Imperial Assault, Gloomhaven, KDM, or any number of legacy games...). Despite Eric Lang's reputation, CMON is still seen as a supply of miniatures, with an okay game attached. (One BGG post said Rising Sun and thus Blood Rage were exceptions for CMON games.)
Rosen from BGG: "Part of the reason I dropped my pledge was my perceived value for the price. While I am intrigued by the Legends system, the price was getting wildly high if I want to enjoy all of the narrative content.
By comparison, another narrative driven fantasy game I've enjoyed is Sword & Sorcery. I enjoy the amount of crunch it has without being a book keeping nightmare. The new KS for Ancient Chronicles however streamlined some of that nicely. And the stretch goals were quite varied, not only adding new heroes and enemies, but component upgrades and additions and more story content. Notably, plastic terrain added on for no additional cost, though more can be purchased if you'd like. Also, none of the purchasable add-on content was really important to the core story or world building. Just one addon adding an arena scenario. Guaranteeing that every pledger will have the same narrative content. The addons are essentially cool bling. And only handful of it will be KS exclusive. So if you can't drop a huge wad on the game NOW, you can always get the arena expansion later, as I will be.
I do like CMON's games, but I've become weary of the endless stream of new heroes and enemies that I don't really want, while having to pay extra for things they could easily have added to increase the value of the core $100 pledge, like the plastic runes (you just know the cardboard runes are going to wear out fast). I also did not like that a big adventure was going to be KS exclusive, and it's even more expensive than the non-KS exclusive adventure add-on without any justification as to why that is. It all seems more investor-centric and not gamer-centric. I'm not asking to "gimme free stuffs." I'm asking for more value for that kind of money ($100 plus shipping). In a narrative game, the SGs should expand that narrative and worldbuilding for everyone, whether a KS backer or retail customer. But if you don't back now, you'll miss out on an entire adventure. The extra heroes and enemies should be the add-ons for the collectors, like Zombicides heroe/enemy boxes. Rising sun was a nice step in the right direction. TONS of value added to the core pledge, with nice extra bling add-ons if you wanted them. You could feel confident that if you missed the KS or bought the game in retail, you'd still get the full experience. But I felt like the Trudvang campaign is preying on FOMO to spend more now, or risk missing the KS exclusive story content forever (unless you want to pay scalpers on ebay later)."
Myself, I think, with rising shipping prices, CMON's more interested in the whales rather than the bargain hunters. It doesn't matter that CMON's losing hundreds of backers and thousands of dollars, so long as they're making a desired profit, and you (can) get this by focusing on customers who will pay for the more profitable expansions and higher "actual" shipping, rather than backers only interested in the "loss leader" base pledge. KS has already become a source of limited edition deluxe games. CMON's just making more obvious. With Amazon and Miniature Market providing boardgaming bargains with free shipping, I dunno if KS boardgame companies should really go after the value-oriented consumer. If KS boardgamers have too many boardgames to play, and KS miniature painters have too many miniatures to paint, maybe KS miniature boardgame companies really should go after the FOMO and shades-of-GW "buying games *IS* the hobby" audience...!
Midnightdeathblade wrote: Whats up with the Tully Cavaliers? They havent even been previewed to my knowledge.
They're still coming. Bolton Black Guard were previewed at the very end of the Kickstarter and have only just been shown off in the flesh. I'd expect the Cavaliers to be the next Stark unit.
It looks like Margaery is in the second set of Baratheons along with Lady Olenna the Queen of Thorns and I think that's Brienne in Renly's Kingsguard form.
I am still missing who might be some of the characters ...
Stannis Hero Box
front left to right: Axell Florent, Stannis Baratheon, Davos Seaworth
back left to right: Selyse/Shireen Baratheon, ?Andrew Estermont?, Melisandre, ?Devan Seaworth or Edric Storm?
Renly Hero Box
front left to right: Olenna Tyrell, Renly Baratheon, Loras Tyrell (very stiff looking tbh)
back left to right: ???, Brienne (Rainbow Guard), ?Randyll Tarly or Cortnay Penrose?, Margaery Tyrell
Targaryen Hero Box:
front left to right: Jorah Mormont, ???, Grey Worm, Xaro Xhoan Daxos
back left to right: Strong Belwas, Barristan Selmy
As you have seen, these last few days have been a roller coaster for all of us, and we've decided to take a different approach: every day, no matter its results, we will unlock for all backers a new Stretch Goal, which will bring to you the full 'Wildland' expansion, with estimated retail value of $40. This is a fully playable expansion, comprising its figures and components. There will be no target to reach for these Daily Stretch Goals! Just sit back and wait to see what these daily Stretch Goals will add to your pledge. Of course, we’ll also keep unlocking the usual Stretch Goals based on any further funding milestones the campaign reaches.
Probably about as middle of the road they could go. If they had done this a week ago I think things would be better but I don't think it's enough to bring people back but should make those who stayed happy.
Also Nifelfang is being unlocked and the new SG is for the passed up dwarf rogue from a earlier in the campaign as a 10k goal.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/08/06 19:19:10
probably a better choice than 'just' unlocking the expansion all at once, because even though it would be a good one off bang it would probably go right back to no unlock again the next day, and right back to the complaining and pulling out
yep. There's a lot of people that near the end just look for what's being unlocked as they ignore 3/4 of the campaign. Having a daily unlock come through will help keep people that may leave in the last couple of days by giving the impression things are still going well.
Not that it's a surprise, but unless I'm missing anything that just reinforces how artificial Kickstarters like these are. Both the company and the backers know there is less product in the initial pledges than the company can afford, assuming a certain number of stretch goals will be unlocked to increase them. Mainly makes me wonder exactly what the expectations of either party are, and if they deviate much from each other... And how bad is it then really for a company if a campaign doesn't fail, but underperforms slightly?
I'm happy with this update. Not just because it adds in a good amount more figures, but the new expansion looks good too. I'm not sure how many it will bring back, but the campaign has already been quite successful. I hope they'll stage it better next time, so that it flows more smoothly, but, to be fair, I think Gencon may have thrown a wrench in it a bit. Or perhaps Riotminds could be more difficult to work with than we know BTS? That's one of those things that can mess up a project, and they can't really tell people about it.
I do really wish CMON would just do a Miniatures only KS, and not couple it with a game or anything. Just a bunch of cool, nicely sculpted minis that would be useful with a variety of games (maybe even ones they've done already). Sort of like a Reaper BONES KS, but with their design, sculpts, and material instead.
CMON was clever to release another paid addon simultaneously with this announcement to get funding moving in the right direction again.
For me personally 6 more miniatures was not enough to get me back, so I'll try to stay out of it and stop commenting going forward.
I've been talked down from pledging for this multiple times yet I still continue to keep a hold of that EB.
I don't know why.
At least it's moving again.
I kind of agree that it would be nice if CMON just did a box of assorted minis like Reaper does. No gameplay involved.
No need to shoehorn stuff to fit into a game. Just let the sculptors run wild and make crazy stuff. I think they'd get the backing both numbers-- wise and financially doing something like this.
Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!
skullking wrote: I'm happy with this update. Not just because it adds in a good amount more figures, but the new expansion looks good too. I'm not sure how many it will bring back, but the campaign has already been quite successful. I hope they'll stage it better next time, so that it flows more smoothly, but, to be fair, I think Gencon may have thrown a wrench in it a bit. Or perhaps Riotminds could be more difficult to work with than we know BTS? That's one of those things that can mess up a project, and they can't really tell people about it.
I do really wish CMON would just do a Miniatures only KS, and not couple it with a game or anything. Just a bunch of cool, nicely sculpted minis that would be useful with a variety of games (maybe even ones they've done already). Sort of like a Reaper BONES KS, but with their design, sculpts, and material instead.
I still think the problem was only one of perception, by using EB's that front-loaded pledges. On BGG, someone noted that CMON assumed the momentum of the campaign of the first day would continue, and priced SG's assuming so. So, when the pledges slowed down, the campaign stopped reaching SG's. CMON did use EB's in Bloodborne, but Trudvang is no Bloodborne.
As for miniatures only, Reaper Bones and Dwarven Forge pulled in $3M each, but this is still less than Bloodborne and Zombicide:Invader. Boardgamers have more money as a population than miniature painters. Closest CMON did with miniatures is a base insert campaign with Micro Arts Studio that brought in 88K. I dunno who at CMON would want to risk their job advocating a miniatures-only campaign, including when CMON doesn't sell miniatures retail (?) like WizKids and Reaper does. Actually, I wouldn't mind a WizKids Deep Cuts KS so I could get some of their very good miniatures in bulk...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/07 01:10:31
I was thinking that the theme, artist, and IP limited it to campaign, Trudvang 
Grey Knights 
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