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There's a sort of fun appeal to Wild West miniatures that might draw people in, especially if they get a lot of them.

Well, if one were to draw sweeping conclusions based on the first day by comparison to recent Zombicide games, this campaign looks like it'll make around 2.7-2.8 million dollars.

I'm in on this one.

I really hope that Tom Selleck from Quigley Down Under is a part of this.

It looks like they already put Kevin Costner from Open Range which was a character I was hoping to see in this project.

So about £105 including P+P and VAt to the Uk....

There are some very nice figures there though

Are we soon going to get an expansion box listed that puts us up to $150 pledge levels or more - followed by a ton of addon 6 character packs? Finishing with a KS only expansion box getting all those $100 pledges to $300?

What is the sculpt quality like now? I last backed a CMON KS a long time back. Would these be an upgrade on the Shadows of Brimstone stuff?

I seem.to remember the PVC (??) being fairly bendy and shallow detail.

As ever would guess the painted examples or resin / 3D printed versions at this point.

I recently received the Bloodborne KS, the the minis are pretty nice (aside from mould lines) with good details and just a few bendy things.

 Fraggle wrote:
What is the sculpt quality like now? I last backed a CMON KS a long time back. Would these be an upgrade on the Shadows of Brimstone stuff?

I seem.to remember the PVC (??) being fairly bendy and shallow detail.

As ever would guess the painted examples or resin / 3D printed versions at this point.

I'll hand it to capitalism on this one, the quality of PVC minis has SKYROCKETED. PVC remains bendy, but I like that, it means you don't have to treat the models like Fabergé eggs or have them break. It can vary from company to company, and even from product to product by one company, but I'm not worried at all for the quality of a CMON product in terms of how the PVC minis will look.

 frankelee wrote:

 Fraggle wrote:
What is the sculpt quality like now? I last backed a CMON KS a long time back. Would these be an upgrade on the Shadows of Brimstone stuff?

I seem.to remember the PVC (??) being fairly bendy and shallow detail.

As ever would guess the painted examples or resin / 3D printed versions at this point.

I'll hand it to capitalism on this one, the quality of PVC minis has SKYROCKETED. PVC remains bendy, but I like that, it means you don't have to treat the models like Fabergé eggs or have them break. It can vary from company to company, and even from product to product by one company, but I'm not worried at all for the quality of a CMON product in terms of how the PVC minis will look.

I have to agree here.
But even way back CMON was making huge strides in PVC. Kaosball is stellar and from 2015.
Massive Darkness were some of the best PVC fantasy minis on the market - they put the Wizkids junk to shame.
And World of SMOG were even better then anything that came before.
I hear some folks complain about shallow detail. But that’s only if you compare to GWs platinum styrene standard.
Compared to anything anyone else makes in PVC, CMON is one of the best.
I have yet to see any of Mythics PVC models for comparison though.
I wouldn’t at all be worried about model quality with CMON.

About 80% of what I paint these days is CMON PVC, and I have zero complaints. Well, mold lines.
But I’m used to those by now and clean up isn’t so difficult with the softer material.

> What is the sculpt quality like now?

Really good, although Monolith, FFG, and other boardgame companies also put out high quality miniatures. Watch out for CMON's customer service complaints. Dunno if UK had to pay VAT, but see the Massive Darkness 2 comments if so.

> Would these be an upgrade on the Shadows of Brimstone stuff?

I only had the original terrible SoB miniatures, which were pretty awful.

I don't know what genres you're looking for, but check out Monolith's Mythic Battles if you're into Norse mythology!

Thanks for the replies!

It sounds like things have improved since my KS heyday. It looks fun and reasonable momey for a lot of minis which have some cross transferability between games. I'll probably jump in.

Yes original big box SoB minis were awful - im hoping some of these will provide stand ins (our group ended up using lego minifigs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Huh, cut me off as used quick reply.

I like the fact a lot of minis are historical rather than NOT x-celebrity (i know there are some nods in there).

Blackscorpion minis would go nicely with this.

I see KS comments sections are still terrible!

Looks like CMON is going in hard with the FOMO this time, every single miniature SG is KSE

 Original Timmy wrote:
Looks like CMON is going in hard with the FOMO this time, every single miniature SG is KSE

What is FOMO and KSE?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Original Timmy wrote:
Looks like CMON is going in hard with the FOMO this time, every single miniature SG is KSE

What is FOMO and KSE?

FOMO = Fear of missing out

KSE = Kickstarter Exclusive

 Original Timmy wrote:
Looks like CMON is going in hard with the FOMO this time, every single miniature SG is KSE

Yes. They've been doing that for years. Only none KSE stuff are expansions.

Bah, no one needs that many survivors ever in Zombicide anyway.

They're close to 1.000.000 $ already. CMON could make a Hello Kitty Zombicide and wild fanboyz would keep throwing their money at their face.

CMON only survives on FOMO nowadays.

Sarouan wrote:
Bah, no one needs that many survivors ever in Zombicide anyway.

They're close to 1.000.000 $ already. CMON could make a Hello Kitty Zombicide and wild fanboyz would keep throwing their money at their face.

CMON only survives on FOMO nowadays.

I just don't think this is true. They didn't raise that much from Night of the Living Dead Zcide.

I purchased retail versions of Death May Die and Project Elite and I've bought massive amounts of Song of Ice and Fire (all retail) as well. I bought the stuff at retail based on the positive reviews for the games and the impressive miniatures.

For Death May Die, I paid something similar to the price of a single combat patrol box from GW. I got a bucket of fantastic miniatures, hours of fun right out of the box, and a great game than keeps on winning the "what do we play tonight?" contest.

I have zero of the KS exclusives.

CMON survives by delivering fun games with fantastic value miniatures in settings people are interested in gaming in. Everything they do is a triple threat as far as I'm concerned. Great value (and frequently just flat out great) miniatures, great gameplay, and great theme/settings.

I agree with Gallahad.

It's true that CMON profits off of FOMO I don't believe it's the main driver just decent games (sometimes exceptional like Rising Sun) with good mins at a price that no one else can consistently match.

This is from someone that's backed around 4 CMON kickstarters I believe.

I'm in for a buck on Undead or Alive, to follow along to see where it goes. But to be honest, I'm so all in on 1e and 2e modern Zombicide I don't know how much use I'd get out of other genres. I'm kinda blase about my Black Plague set and I didn't even bother with Invader.

 Monkeysloth wrote:
I agree with Gallahad.

It's true that CMON profits off of FOMO I don't believe it's the main driver just decent games (sometimes exceptional like Rising Sun) with good mins at a price that no one else can consistently match.

This is from someone that's backed around 4 CMON kickstarters I believe.

They get pledges by using FOMO as a marketing tool.
Those backers then hype the game, and it sells well at retail.
Zcide itself has sold over 50k copies at retail last I heard.
Without a single exclusive. That puts any of their KS campaigns to shame for sheer numbers.
The he KS will get half that many backers if they’re lucky.
So I wouldn’t say it’s entirely FOMO. I think it’s based more on value. Good minis and a decent game for $100 or less.
That’s a good deal when you compare it to the new Descent coming out, which has a MSRP of $175.

KS exclusives are all about FOMO. Hell, even KS projects are about it as well, since people are afraid they won't have the game at retail. Which is mostly just a baseless fear for a brand like Zombicide, anyway.

What you said just prove my point : no one needs to have that many survivors, be it exclusives or not, to play Zombicide. There's just no point to back the KSer here - especially with the uncertainty of the pandemic around and crazy shipping prices. It's plain better to wait for retail. People said themselves on this very topic they're still waiting for past KS to deliver...and yet they're ready to back for one more ?

What else can be explained by wild fanboyism mixed with FOMO here ?

Good value ? For a Zombicide game ? Like, a game that is known for years and has its core system written by itself already ? Seriously, wake up, people. You're trying to justify your drug, here. It's not about having a game with good value, it never was. It's about pledging a new CMON KS for the sake of it - because it brings you pleasure in itself. It's not about having the game at all or have a great deal, in the end.

Sarouan wrote:...CMON could make a Hello Kitty Zombicide and wild fanboyz would keep throwing their money at their face.

CMON only survives on FOMO nowadays.

Sarouan wrote:KS exclusives are all about FOMO. Hell, even KS projects are about it as well, since people are afraid they won't have the game at retail. Which is mostly just a baseless fear for a brand like Zombicide, anyway.

What you said just prove my point : no one needs to have that many survivors, be it exclusives or not, to play Zombicide. There's just no point to back the KSer here - especially with the uncertainty of the pandemic around and crazy shipping prices. It's plain better to wait for retail. People said themselves on this very topic they're still waiting for past KS to deliver...and yet they're ready to back for one more ?

What else can be explained by wild fanboyism mixed with FOMO here ?

Good value ? For a Zombicide game ? Like, a game that is known for years and has its core system written by itself already ? Seriously, wake up, people. You're trying to justify your drug, here. It's not about having a game with good value, it never was. It's about pledging a new CMON KS for the sake of it - because it brings you pleasure in itself. It's not about having the game at all or have a great deal, in the end.

No one disagrees that FOMO adds to the bottom line of CMON. Your assertion was that CMON only survives on FOMO nowadays. When people chimed in with many examples of the flat out value of retail pledges, you moved the goalposts.

People who carefully evaluate whether it is better to wait for retail or not is a clear sign that there is value for the money outside the KSE. Carefully evaluating whether to wait for retail or not is the opposite of the FOMO you claimed is the life support for CMON.

https://cmon-files.s3.amazonaws.com/pdf/cmon_file/file/559/201130_annual_report_2019.pdf

CMON makes about 55% of it's income from KS and the other 45% from Wholesale and other sources (page 6). That held true for 2019 and 2018 (the full year 2020 report isn't available for comparison). They make $12 to $13 million from wholesale and if they sell at say 40% of MSRP and retailers sell at say 20% discount (CMON have MAPPs but I don't know how strictly they are enforced) that puts the retail value at around $25 million per annum ($9 to $10 million more than KS) (and yes I haven't accounted for Miniature Market stock dumps but that's not the norm). Whilst KS certainly drives initial sales of a game there is more money being made on the retail sales after KS.

CMON also distribute a good few games that went straight to retail without a KS - 93 total games offered at the end of 2019 vs 45 game KS to date. Games like ASOIAF have far exceeded their KS in retail releases (getting hold of them is another issue)
https://cmon.com/products

Sarouan wrote:
KS exclusives are all about FOMO. Hell, even KS projects are about it as well, since people are afraid they won't have the game at retail. Which is mostly just a baseless fear for a brand like Zombicide, anyway.

What you said just prove my point : no one needs to have that many survivors, be it exclusives or not, to play Zombicide. There's just no point to back the KSer here - especially with the uncertainty of the pandemic around and crazy shipping prices. It's plain better to wait for retail. People said themselves on this very topic they're still waiting for past KS to deliver...and yet they're ready to back for one more ?

What else can be explained by wild fanboyism mixed with FOMO here ?

Good value ? For a Zombicide game ? Like, a game that is known for years and has its core system written by itself already ? Seriously, wake up, people. You're trying to justify your drug, here. It's not about having a game with good value, it never was. It's about pledging a new CMON KS for the sake of it - because it brings you pleasure in itself. It's not about having the game at all or have a great deal, in the end.

I'm thinking your missing what FOMO means. Kickstarter exclusives aren't about fear of missing out. They are about the decision to either get or not. Sales of them are extremely limited after the first run, so calling it isn't a matter of fear.

The question is do you want those exclusives. Some say, "you don't need all those survivors to play" while others say "variety is the spice of life".

Sarouan wrote:

Good value ? For a Zombicide game ? Like, a game that is known for years and has its core system written by itself already ? Seriously, wake up, people. You're trying to justify your drug, here. It's not about having a game with good value, it never was. It's about pledging a new CMON KS for the sake of it - because it brings you pleasure in itself. It's not about having the game at all or have a great deal, in the end.

Even though this is a pretty stupid statement and read too much like a troll I think the irony needs to be called out. You're literally on a forum dedicated to people buying way more little figurines then they'll ever use in their lifetime yelling at people for buying way more little figurines then they'll ever use the wrong way and somehow the wrong reasons.

If your post history was filled why "do you really need to buy that?" types of posts it would be one thing but you're just spouting dumb stuff because you think others here are having their fun the wrong way.

 alextroy wrote:
I'm thinking your missing what FOMO means. Kickstarter exclusives aren't about fear of missing out. They are about the decision to either get or not. Sales of them are extremely limited after the first run, so calling it isn't a matter of fear.

It's litterally the definition of FOMO - fear of missing out. Since you say sales of them are extremely limited after the first run, so you're afraid of missing them by not pledging the KSer. Knowing perfectly you're spending money while you won't see the game before a good amount of time...if at all.

The question is do you want those exclusives. Some say, "you don't need all those survivors to play" while others say "variety is the spice of life".

If it was true variety in gameplay, sure. Here, it's mostly different miniatures...so the main point here is more for the collection.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Even though this is a pretty stupid statement and read too much like a troll I think the irony needs to be called out. You're literally on a forum dedicated to people buying way more little figurines then they'll ever use in their lifetime yelling at people for buying way more little figurines then they'll ever use the wrong way and somehow the wrong reasons.

If your post history was filled why "do you really need to buy that?" types of posts it would be one thing but you're just spouting dumb stuff because you think others here are having their fun the wrong way.

Not having their fun the wrong way, more like lieing to themselves about the true reasons behind pledging. Talking about "good value" and stuff while the days of CMON KSers really giving out a deal not being there anymore, that makes me sigh. CMON do their KSers with a very particular psychological pattern and they always use the same tricks over and over. So I know there is no debate anyway, it's automatic with every CMON KSer. It's not about selling good games anymore - just getting on the Hype train.

TBH, I can see the pleasure of pledging a CMON KSer, even if I don't see the value anymore of pre-ordering something a year in advance in the current situation with uncertain delivery / expected delays / surprise shipping costs. If it was an obscure game, I can understand the FOMO here. But we're talking about the Zombicide brand in this case.

It's a matter of passion, not reason - true enough.

Well miniatures look more soulless than other zombicides for sure, like a pure void stl file at its best. Yuck.

Cmon a multimillion? company using KS as preorder, well at least this one they keep milking it unlike others they drop the moment they release.

I still dislike how the war-game ranges they had were errr dropped.

Easy Pass.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Well miniatures look more soulless than other zombicides for sure, like a pure void stl file at its best. Yuck.

Huh, I find the sculpts pretty good. No accounting for taste I guess. They are in reasonably varied stances with good weight placement and pretty good facial expressions.

If they turn out like Death May Die survivors they will be superb and easily some of the best western miniatures on the market.

Sarouan wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I'm thinking your missing what FOMO means. Kickstarter exclusives aren't about fear of missing out. They are about the decision to either get or not. Sales of them are extremely limited after the first run, so calling it isn't a matter of fear.

It's litterally the definition of FOMO - fear of missing out. Since you say sales of them are extremely limited after the first run, so you're afraid of missing them by not pledging the KSer. Knowing perfectly you're spending money while you won't see the game before a good amount of time...if at all.

The question is do you want those exclusives. Some say, "you don't need all those survivors to play" while others say "variety is the spice of life".

If it was true variety in gameplay, sure. Here, it's mostly different miniatures...so the main point here is more for the collection.

 Monkeysloth wrote:

Even though this is a pretty stupid statement and read too much like a troll I think the irony needs to be called out. You're literally on a forum dedicated to people buying way more little figurines then they'll ever use in their lifetime yelling at people for buying way more little figurines then they'll ever use the wrong way and somehow the wrong reasons.

If your post history was filled why "do you really need to buy that?" types of posts it would be one thing but you're just spouting dumb stuff because you think others here are having their fun the wrong way.

Not having their fun the wrong way, more like lieing to themselves about the true reasons behind pledging. Talking about "good value" and stuff while the days of CMON KSers really giving out a deal not being there anymore, that makes me sigh. CMON do their KSers with a very particular psychological pattern and they always use the same tricks over and over. So I know there is no debate anyway, it's automatic with every CMON KSer. It's not about selling good games anymore - just getting on the Hype train.

TBH, I can see the pleasure of pledging a CMON KSer, even if I don't see the value anymore of pre-ordering something a year in advance in the current situation with uncertain delivery / expected delays / surprise shipping costs. If it was an obscure game, I can understand the FOMO here. But we're talking about the Zombicide brand in this case.

It's a matter of passion, not reason - true enough.

If you didn’t want answers, then don’t ask a question.
I also don’t appreciate the insults for making an attempt to explain why CMON does things the way they do.
I don’t own any Zombicide, and have a buck in the western one to check it out.
If folks want to spend their money in any way they want, they have that right.
Just because you don’t do things the same, or see the same value in what some one else does, doesn’t mean it’s worthless.
And if I understand the psychology behind their marketing, then how am I lying to myself or being fooled?
It’s almost like you came looking for some one to argue with when you hurl about presumptions for why some one might answer your questions.

Again, don’t presume that because I answered you that I’m some mindless idiot with no self control or any reason behind any gaming expense I might have. And don’t presume that anyone and everyone pledging for a CMON game doesn’t realize what the marketing does and is for.
I was simply pointing out to you that CMON does really good at retail, which you don’t seem to want to see.
If I decide to spend my gaming money on something you hate, am I still a moron just because you have a differing opinion?

Sign of the times, people can’t have a different viewpoint these days without people feeling the need to gak all over them for it.

Sarouan wrote:


Not having their fun the wrong way, more like lieing to themselves about the true reasons behind pledging. Talking about "good value" and stuff while the days of CMON KSers really giving out a deal not being there anymore, that makes me sigh. CMON do their KSers with a very particular psychological pattern and they always use the same tricks over and over. So I know there is no debate anyway, it's automatic with every CMON KSer. It's not about selling good games anymore - just getting on the Hype train.

TBH, I can see the pleasure of pledging a CMON KSer, even if I don't see the value anymore of pre-ordering something a year in advance in the current situation with uncertain delivery / expected delays / surprise shipping costs. If it was an obscure game, I can understand the FOMO here. But we're talking about the Zombicide brand in this case.

You do realize what you described is called marketing right? Games Workshop has their psychological pattern they use to sell stuff, so does apple, sports teams and ever other business in existence ever. Yet you're acting like it's some secret nefarious thing that only CMoN has mastered when every company that has a thread here in this new forum has their own "psychological pattern" they use to sell to us. None of us here are oblivious to what they're doing.

It's a matter of passion, not reason - true enough.

No one cares.