Harlequins Codex Tactics - The Laughing God play time!

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**Galef**

MarkM wrote:
I love the Hawks as models too - except that they are only available as failcast :( Maybe I'll just have to swallow that.

I'll check out Scourges too as both fit the playstyle of fast moving units.

You can always buy the Scourge models and put Dire Avenger heads on them. Now you can play them as either Scourges or Hawks, depending on your need/desire.

Rear Left:

Spoiler:

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**MarkM**

Galef,

That's awesome, thank you.

Plus CWE has other toys I might like to add. I can feel my wallet getting lighter by the minute

**the_scotsman**

Galef wrote:
MarkM wrote:
I love the Hawks as models too - except that they are only available as failcast :( Maybe I'll just have to swallow that.

I'll check out Scourges too as both fit the playstyle of fast moving units.

You can always buy the Scourge models and put Dire Avenger heads on them. Now you can play them as either Scourges or Hawks, depending on your need/desire.

Rear Left:

Spoiler:

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That warp spider is an awesome conversion. Great use of extra raider legs. I just need to know what the backpack used was...

**mmimzie**

Howdy folks I swear I skimmed these thread 3 times looking for this answer.... and i feel like it's in this thread and i missed it... So forgive me for asking a redundant question??

Can a solitaire bliz move and advance as part of the blitz?? Or does it being a blitz stop you from being able to advance??

Again forgive me if this has been asked.... I feel like it has been >.>

**Galef**

the_scotsman wrote:
I just need to know what the backpack used was...

Necron Deathmark back torso half. Easily acquired via eBay. I snip the "hood" off and reglue it into the open gap where the spinal vertebrae are suppose to go.

Spoiler:

Sorry for the continued shameless plugs.
Anyone have any idea when the Harlie/WWG FAQ should be out?

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**fresus**

mmimzie wrote:Howdy folks I swear I skimmed these thread 3 times looking for this answer.... and i feel like it's in this thread and i missed it... So forgive me for asking a redundant question??

Can a solitaire bliz move and advance as part of the blitz?? Or does it being a blitz stop you from being able to advance??

Again forgive me if this has been asked.... I feel like it has been >.>

Nothing says you can't. It adds 2D6" to your movement stat, but otherwise doesn't change the normal movement rules.

Galef wrote:Anyone have any idea when the Harlie/WWG FAQ should be out?
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Great stuff as usual Galef.
The FAQ is supposed to come out 2 weeks after the codex, but rarely on weekends. So my guess would be on the 11th or 12th.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Galef wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
I just need to know what the backpack used was...

Necron Deathmark back torso half. Easily acquired via eBay. I snip the "hood" off and reglue it into the open gap where the spinal vertebrae are suppose to go.

Spoiler:

Sorry for the continued shameless plugs.
Anyone have any idea when the Harlie/WWG FAQ should be out?

-

Don't worry about shameless plugs. They might be inspirational to someone so if it's that good feel free.

**Zarroc1733**

fresus wrote:
mmimzie wrote:Howdy folks I swear I skimmed these thread 3 times looking for this answer.... and i feel like it's in this thread and i missed it... So forgive me for asking a redundant question??

Can a solitaire bliz move and advance as part of the blitz?? Or does it being a blitz stop you from being able to advance??

Again forgive me if this has been asked.... I feel like it has been >.>

Nothing says you can't. It adds 2D6" to your movement stat, but otherwise doesn't change the normal movement rules.

Galef wrote:Anyone have any idea when the Harlie/WWG FAQ should be out?
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Great stuff as usual Galef.
The FAQ is supposed to come out 2 weeks after the codex, but rarely on weekends. So my guess would be on the 11th or 12th.

Yeah as it stands you can blitz, advance, twilight pathways (the blitz move increase lasts the full turn) for an average movement of 45 inches before you charge. For 1 CP when you advance you could move 6 inches automatically in the movement phase with warrior acrobats increasing your movement in a single turn to about 47.5 inches

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course I'm not sure you'd want to as your solitaire would be completely alone.

**DarknessEternal**

Zarroc1733 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course I'm not sure you'd want to as your solitaire would be completely alone.

A Solitaire's job is to kill a Warlord or other such important figure. What happens to it after that is irrelevant.

**rollawaythestone**

I agree a Solitaire is great at hunting characters - but there are many many warlords and important characters that he won't scratch in combat.

**Teschio**

rollawaythestone wrote:
I agree a Solitaire is great at hunting characters - but there are many many warlords and important characters that he won't scratch in combat.

With Cegorach's Rose? Basically every infantry character is dead meat. Lots of attacks, rerolls to wound, most of the times a save of 3+ or worse, and you only need a couple of blows to go through to murder almost anyone. And this is if you don't get wounded by overwatch (which you seriously hope for, given the Torments of the Fiery Pit stratagem. With it, there isn't an infantry character that would survive). Sure, he is far less effective versus non-infantry characters, but those are generally rarer.

**Weidekuh**

Zarroc1733 wrote:

Yeah as it stands you can blitz, advance, twilight pathways (the blitz move increase lasts the full turn) for an average movement of 45 inches before you charge. For 1 CP when you advance you could move 6 inches automatically in the movement phase with warrior acrobats increasing your movement in a single turn to about 47.5 inches.

You can't twilight pathways when you blitz.

**mmimzie**

Weidekuh wrote:
Zarroc1733 wrote:

Yeah as it stands you can blitz, advance, twilight pathways (the blitz move increase lasts the full turn) for an average movement of 45 inches before you charge. For 1 CP when you advance you could move 6 inches automatically in the movement phase with warrior acrobats increasing your movement in a single turn to about 47.5 inches.

You can't twilight pathways when you blitz.

Yeah can use twilight path after you blitz. You just can use twilight path the turn before you blitz right??

**Papewaio**

The wording on Blitz means you can use it, provided Twilight Pathways wasn't used in the previous psychic phase. To me that says Blitz + Twilight Pathways is doable?

**Weidekuh**

Oh yeah weird wording. Raw you're right. It is strange tho,makes little sense. Rai is probably not allowed but you're right, you can. Just not next round...

**Amishprn86**

Weidekuh wrote:
Oh yeah weird wording. Raw you're right. It is strange tho,makes little sense. Rai is probably not allowed but you're right, you can. Just not next round...

Its the same wording as the index and its been asked before, to me that's clearly RAI and RAW now unless it actually does get a FAQ when the FAQ comes out soon.

**Odrankt**

Papewaio wrote:
The wording on Blitz means you can use it, provided Twilight Pathways wasn't used in the previous psychic phase. To me that says Blitz + Twilight Pathways is doable?

You can't Blitz once you are buffed by Twilight Pathways until that buff is gone.e.g. - Turn 1 you decide to TP the Solitaire, Turn 2 you decide you want to Blitz but you can't as TP is still in affect until the next Phase. Than on turn 3 you will be free to Blitz as TP should no longer be in affect.

The only RAI v RAW is turn 1. As you could technically Blitz before your 1st Pysker phase which could loop hole the restrictions.

**Amishprn86**

Its not hard, the rules only state you cant blitz if you in a previous psychic phase used twilight pathways. Turn 1 there is no previous phase, if you didn't cast it on him turn 1 then turn 2 you can still use them together.

Im sure the reason why is to not be able to move across the table in 2 turns to get anywhere you wanted. If you can move advance, Twilight turn 1 for about 30", then turn 2 move + Blitz, then twilight again, that is about 37-42", for a total of 67-72"

**Odrankt**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Its not hard, the rules only state you cant blitz if you in a previous psychic phase used twilight pathways. Turn 1 there is no previous phase, if you didn't cast it on him turn 1 then turn 2 you can still use them together.

Im sure the reason why is to not be able to move across the table in 2 turns to get anywhere you wanted. If you can move advance, Twilight turn 1 for about 30", then turn 2 move + Blitz, then twilight again, that is about 37-42", for a total of 67-72"

If you Twilight Pathways on Turn 1 you can't Blitz Turn 2. Pysker phase is after the movement phase meaning if you TP on turn 1 it will last during your movement of turn 2.

Just bring a Starweaver instead of using TP

Move and advance the weaver, disembark turn 2 and than Blitz. Easier and safer option.

**Amishprn86**

Dude... thats what i said. You can TP+Blitz anytime you didnt TP the turn before.

Also its not safer, its another option. Safer will heavily depend on what/who you are fighting, you might want to TP your Skyweavers turn 1 and Blitz+TP turn 2 so you can have some nice tie up units and hit a key character turn 2 that is to far away (Easy to TP now b.c you had a turn to get your shadowseer in range).

These are all options you can no, most of the time you wont TP+Blitz but its is good to know how the rules work so you dont get into an argument with others and so you are playing it correctly.

For me i most likely will be TP powers on my Troupes or Skyweavers or even a Starweaver over Solitaire, i see no purpose in him being TP, as i can move him turn 1 then Blitz turn 2 and be just fine.

**shortymcnostrill**

Weidekuh wrote:

- The suit of hidden knifes (on any character, but solitaire speed or shadowseer selfbuffing are probably most reliable): This is a more obvious one, but still fun. Prepare to have it nerfed and only count unmodified rolls of 1. Because fog of dreams, veil of tears, drain(craftworld), lightning fast reflexes = -4 to hit. This means on any hit rolls of 1,2,3,4,5 you roll a 2+ and the enemy unit gets a mortal wound. What's hilarious about it, if he had a 3+ to hit, he can't even hit you, but still has to roll to kill himself. Especially fun against those max blobs of ork boys or genestealers. Works best if you can jump your character into the middle of his unit (flipbelt) before he gets to attack.

If you use the cwe index swooping hawk exarch sun rifle then this can go to -5. Laugh at your opponent's 2+ rerollable blender unit of death!

**Amishprn86**

Swooping Hawks are good with Harlequins anyways, they can give us a good amount of AI, with a Farseer for Doom, and a JinxLock they combine really well.

**lambsandlions**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Swooping Hawks are good with Harlequins anyways, they can give us a good amount of AI, with a Farseer for Doom, and a JinxLock they combine really well.

I think craftworld in general is a nice pair with harlequins. Rangers are the perfect cheap objective sitters who can just sit back in our deployment zone and stay on the objective. A farseers with doom and executioner will really help and a farseers on bike is also great for taking overwatch and dishing out damage.

All of that in a battalion is like 400pts and gives 5cp.

**karandrasss**

Galef wrote:
MarkM wrote:
I love the Hawks as models too - except that they are only available as failcast :( Maybe I'll just have to swallow that.

I'll check out Scourges too as both fit the playstyle of fast moving units.

You can always buy the Scourge models and put Dire Avenger heads on them. Now you can play them as either Scourges or Hawks, depending on your need/desire.

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How would you explain the guns though? Lasrifes don't exactly look like Blasters/Dark Lances...

**barnacle111**

So..... I'm considering adding 10 hellions (awesome models and very harlequin trainee in style, also good to tie up units to allow harlies to attack), and 2 units of scourge (blaster and darklances to provide heavy support oh and awesome models!) And lelith (awesome character (in fluff and likes ynnari and harlies)....
Any thoughts?

**Amishprn86**

Dark Lance Scourges are almost pointless honestly, take either blasters or HWB's.

Hellions they even have a stratagem that makes them more fun, i would take 1 unit of 10 instead of 2x5, a larger unit is much better, 2 stratagems and drugs heavily helps them. Hellions are best for 2W models OR models with FnP and Invuls, they are very strong against DG and Daemons, they almost completely counter Invul only DG units with their disgusting resilience (Pox walkers for an example), they are also good against 4+ armor bike units and tyranids/orks with 4/5+ and multi-wounds, they are bad against MEQ.

As for being added to harlequins, they dont add much in rules to them, as they have basically they same roles, for looks? Yeah they fit well, especially Hellions. I assume you are taking a Outrider detachment? Lelith, Hellion, x2 Scourges? Scourges are good, they have a lot of pros for them and good weapons.

IDK how you are building and painting your army, but you can make Scourges without wings and do Balloons or just an odd DE flip belt to fit the harlequins theme more, Hellions will be fun to paint as Harlequins, you can add PGL's for -1 LD as well and that works well with harlequins.

**fresus**

Hellions don't add much to Harlequins. They do look good, but that's about it.
Scourges are more interesting, especially with shredders. They can bring some very needed anti-horde to Harlies.

**the_scotsman**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Dark Lance Scourges are almost pointless honestly, take either blasters or HWB's.

Hellions they even have a stratagem that makes them more fun, i would take 1 unit of 10 instead of 2x5, a larger unit is much better, 2 stratagems and drugs heavily helps them. Hellions are best for 2W models OR models with FnP and Invuls, they are very strong against DG and Daemons, they almost completely counter Invul only DG units with their disgusting resilience (Pox walkers for an example), they are also good against 4+ armor bike units and tyranids/orks with 4/5+ and multi-wounds, they are bad against MEQ.

As for being added to harlequins, they dont add much in rules to them, as they have basically they same roles, for looks? Yeah they fit well, especially Hellions. I assume you are taking a Outrider detachment? Lelith, Hellion, x2 Scourges? Scourges are good, they have a lot of pros for them and good weapons.

IDK how you are building and painting your army, but you can make Scourges without wings and do Balloons or just an odd DE flip belt to fit the harlequins theme more, Hellions will be fun to paint as Harlequins, you can add PGL's for -1 LD as well and that works well with harlequins.

So, I broke my Cardinal Rule in the index (never build a model just to get the rules) and built myself a scourge squad with nothing but DLs, and now I'm using them because suboptimal or not, I sank the hours into building and painting them.

And honestly...don't get the hate for them. I pay 3ppm more than blasters, and what I get out of the unit is flexibility. Against an army without much downrange shooting, they plop down in cover and they can immediately shoot with BS3+ where my Blaster scourge would have to sit and wait a full turn. 12pts is a small price to pay for 4 DL shots in the critical first turn.

Against an army that has downrange shooting, they deepstrike, and they STILL get to come down turn 1, because they feature 36" range. While they are BS4+ that first turn which stinks, that's still shooting I usually wouldn't get. And again thanks to the range, they almost always get to sit in cover (Meaning I have the option of using Hunt from the Shadows to make them ridiculously hard to take out with the kinds of small arms that generally get committed to them) and they require my opponent to go much more out of their way to try and hurt them.

I field a unit of DLs and a unit of Haywire, and despite Haywire being considered the "best" option and DLs probably the second worst behind splinter cannons, I tend to like the DLs far better. The mathhammer/theory doesn't favor them because in theory you're paying more points for range on a unit that's "just going to deep strike" but post-DS FAQ I like them a lot.

**Amishprn86**

Dl vs Blaster, B.c blasters hit on 3+ when you move and DLs hit on 4+ when you DS or move, you cant advance with them either, this heavily limited your options and damage.

If you want Scourges with DL im not going to stop you, but for the points they are very weak, just take Ravagers, they are the same points for +3 Toughness, 5++, 10W's vs 5W's and can DS as well with Assault weapons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im not saying dont do it, go for it, play what you like, i'm just saying why people dont take them, when you compare them to Ravagers, or other units, even Skyweavers (For Haywire) Scourges are a neat unit and are fun, but there are reasons why others dont like them.

**the_scotsman**

Amishprn86 wrote:
Dl vs Blaster, B.c blasters hit on 3+ when you move and DLs hit on 4+ when you DS or move, you cant advance with them either, this heavily limited your options and damage.

If you want Scourges with DL im not going to stop you, but for the points they are very weak, just take Ravagers, they are the same points for +3 Toughness, 5++, 10W's vs 5W's and can DS as well with Assault weapons.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Im not saying dont do it, go for it, play what you like, i'm just saying why people dont take them, when you compare them to Ravagers, or other units, even Skyweavers (For Haywire) Scourges are a neat unit and are fun, but there are reasons why others dont like them.

I find they have several benefits over a Ravager, and that they are entirely different units from Skyweavers (tho if we're talking haywire unit vs haywire unit, I definitely prefer the skyweavers there..they're just great all around.)

Versus a Ravager, their points are equal but their firepower is only equivalent when they either DS or move. When they're standing still and firing their 36" range guns, they have 25% more firepower. In a situation where I'm putting them on the table turn 1, odds are good my opponent will have targets within 36" of me after I deploy, because that's why I chose to put them on the table. If you end up in a situation where you need to move, especially advance, a unit that deep strikes with 36" range weapons, you've made a mistake or the game has progressed to the point where -1BS probably won't matter because you're mopping up. This is particularly true if your opponent does not manage to kill a unit of blaster scourge the turn they come in.

Durability-wise, comparing a vehicle to an infantry unit and just saying "5 wounds vs 10 wounds" is fairly silly as well because mechanically those 5 wounds operate very differently from those ten.

How many unsaved wounds must they take from anti-infantry weapons? Half as many.
How about Autocannons? Exactly the same amount, because the Ravager takes 2 damage and the Scourges take 1.
How about Lascannons? 1.75 times as many on average, because the Ravager takes 3.5 and the Scourges 1.

in certain situations you see single wound, mid strength and high-AP firepower, like Cawlbots, but it's much more common to see that kind of firepower fall into the category of shorter range and lower AP.

That's when I enjoy having the scourges as a game piece on the board where I can use their unexpected durability vs anti infantry fire with Hunt from the Shadows. people tend not to expect a unit that looks like that to pull out a 2+ armor save, and on average my opponent could commit a punisher tank to my Scourges and with HFTS up they won't even get to the dark lances with average rolling.