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This has the potential with IG providing enough CP to put pain on the popular lists out there.

It can light up RG or a Vexilus given enough CP for damage rerolls...if it hits, which might be the saving grace here.

So what do you think? Is this going to force people back to lascannons and proper gunlines?

Vect says No.

Can't really see how it would change the meta if it's saddled on a heavier and a more expensive knight since you can't bring too many of those. The statline of a bit punchier lascannon isn't bad, but also not the end of he world as most characters you might want to snipe out with that will survive one and hitting with more requires a hefty portion of the available guns pointed in that spot.

Knights haven't been doing too good thus far, getting a bit more oompf that doesn't really feel too overpowering is just fine.

If the barrier to entry for this weapon weren't so high, points-wise, I think it'd definitely affect the meta. Otherwise...meh.

It's not going to be a meta breaker. It's going to be a fairly pricey (in CP and likely points) way to either lay some wounds on a 9 wound character like Bobby or a Demon Price, but those missiles are going to be gold against real hard targets as well.

Even against T3 support characters, you will need to hit, wound, and then roll at 4 for damage. Even assuming a re-roll for damage, BS3+, and wounding on a 2+, you splat a four wound character 5/12 of the time, or 41%. You might bump that up with re-rolls to hit/wound, but you're not going to get to even a 50% chance.

It is 1d6 in a meta where the scary characters are above 7 wounds, and -4 AP when all the scary characters have AT LEAST 5++, with some like mort and gulliman going further. No, this doesnt change much.

 Sherrypie wrote:
Can't really see how it would change the meta if it's saddled on a heavier and a more expensive knight since you can't bring too many of those. The statline of a bit punchier lascannon isn't bad, but also not the end of he world as most characters you might want to snipe out with that will survive one and hitting with more requires a hefty portion of the available guns pointed in that spot.

Knights haven't been doing too good thus far, getting a bit more oompf that doesn't really feel too overpowering is just fine.

Sniper Kurov's Aquila, Magnifica, etc.

I don't think it's over powering, but it changes a lot of dynamics.

So... it's a lascannon that costs 2cp [so one per round] and ignores invulnerable saves?

Most characters can survive a punch from one of these; and even the ones that can't - you have to get lucky to deal enough damage.

Have to hit (66% chance success), have to wound (83% chance success), and have to roll really high damage to take out characters (17/33/50% chance success; 0% 7+ wounds). If the character has a 2+ armor save, have to get past a 6+ armor save (17% failure). Have to get past FNP (17% failure) if they have it too. -- On top of all that, you also have to deal with any relevant stratagems (-1 to hit, other defensive strategems, etc).

Yeah - that's a lot of things that have to happen to take out a character. Also, you can only target characters once per round, so... good luck.

Nevermind if the opponent just goes first and nukes any models carrying a Shieldbreaker Missile before you have a chance to fire.

These one-shot missiles will change nothing. Perhaps a game here or there, but certainly not the meta.

 vaklor4 wrote:
It is 1d6 in a meta where the scary characters are above 7 wounds, and -4 AP when all the scary characters have AT LEAST 5++, with some like mort and gulliman going further. No, this doesnt change much.

It bypasses the invu saves

fe40k wrote:

Nevermind if the opponent just goes first and nukes any models carrying a Shieldbreaker Missile before you have a chance to fire.

So it will force more gunlines?

This sounds like a broken very bad idea to shoe horn in a counter to the everything gets an invulnerable saves game that GW have been playing for the last 6 months.

Hopefully they keep it confirmed to the very biggest knights at a points cost that doesn't see them being spammed or its going to remove what little non infantry spam units remaining from the meta.

"We really hate cowards who hide instead of fearlessly facing their foes! Get out here and fight like a man!"

-Tubby guy sitting in an armchair eating cheetos in the center of a giant 500 ton robot

Man, if the IK fluff included more goofy, making fun of Battletech stuff like this I would definitely like them better

Impact on the meta? Eh. Maybe. I can see soup lists throwing one of these guys in. The big problem with them is the lack of pretty much any kind of synergy - you can't buff them with psychic powers or use strats on them like you can with a baneblade. Maybe the freeblade rules they hinted at fix that?

Sadly, even if one of those big suckers uses Rotate Ion Shields, a normal 2k point army's worth of Dark Reapers with Doom on it one-rounds it.

Yes, I see this as a Meta Changer for sure. A slightly lucky roll, and your opponent's support characters are gone, while yours are still alive. I guess it depends on how expensive a Shieldbreaker Missile is. If it's 50 points or less, it'll be a meta-changer, as then it'll be killing things worth around equal or potentially double its points cost. If it's 100 or more points, it's unlikely to be a meta-changer, because you'll need multiple to reliably take down a character, and then you're sometimes spending 4 times the points of the character to deal with them. Anywhere inbetween there and it's going to be extremely annoying for casual gamers who build lists around support characters and can't afford to shift gears, but will still see enough play that they will be told they have to learn deal with it in a bunch of their games if they want to be "good".

Even if it doesn't kill it places characters like Ahriman in peril of perils. I'm interested to see how this develops.

Not a game-breaker, but a massive consideration for the meta. Sniping sorcerers, buffing characters, characters who have a CP-recovery function, etc. Taking care of pesky assassins, killing supremely weak characters like Eldar ones, or - as stated, targeting powerful characters hiding behind invulns, etc.

If Dark Eldar try to Vect it...they'll eventually lose, since the Imperials could farm far more CP and spend it cheaper/easier in most situations. Likewise the Dark Eldar having a 2+ invulnerable would hate this weapon if successful. Tie it to a damage re-roll and you're making some good use of it.

I do think this is a stratagem you'd see fired every turn when available.

What keeps this in check is 1 missile per turn. Otherwise it would be nasty

First of all. RG isn't meta - so scratch that out. About the only thing this is going to be good against is killing spirit seers turn 1. Which are probably going to have vect protection and probably be in a wave serpent. It will at least be a good way to run through eldar command points.

I think from what I read you are going to have to sacrifice a predator auto cannon with d3 damage instead of flat 3 (literally the same profile with d3 instead of flat 3) Yeah...no way I'm giving that up for a 1 use weapon.

I think the real meta changer is the 3d6 auto hit range 18" ap-2 flat 2 damage weapon. -1 to hit modifiers aren't going to be nearly as useful with this bad boy running around.

Orks hate that. Weirdboy's are essential and so are kff/painboys. Cp farm is pretty common so that's out. Thing with support stuff are killing them is often more than points indicate

Still has to hit, still has to wound. And, even after all of that, still has a 1/3 chance to deal 1 or 2 damage.

We already have the Vindicare Assassin, and you can bring 3 of them, and they don't see play.

Has an 11% chance to hit, wound, and then roll a 6. Worth noting some characters in cover will still get a save with -4 AP, and any rolls to ignore wounds..


A neat option, but not meta changing. Unliky to one shot any character. A t3 4 wound character would have a 35% chance to kill in one shot with this, considering low CPs will likely be a thing for armies with knights- it's really not meta changing.

It's a one shot weapon. It's not even up to Deathstrike levels of evil, but has the same limitation. They could take 2 deathstrikes and have twice the firing rate for fewer points.

One thing I do like about this missile is that it completely invalidates impenetrable forcefields, sunders the mightiest armor, and completely ignores everything...except for the 1/6 chance per wound for my Dark Eldar to take that missile and like it.

kinky space elf masochism conquers all.

I think it will see play.

I agree the odds are not great - even with a reroll - so I was initially in the "this kind of sucks" department. (It still might suck if it costs a fortune and the other guns are better for their points.)

But that time you get turn 1 warlord, and/or shut down your opponent's CP farming ability? Going to feel pretty nice.

Most of the rumors have this missile mounted on a platform that costs around 600-700 points, so it's unlikely to make that much of a difference. Over the course of a game killing RG might be worthwhile, but most other support characters either a) travel in packs (like AM) or b) only really matter for one turn (like Custodes). And specifically in the case of RG and his gunline, a knight is pretty easy to remove in a turn.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Most of the rumors have this missile mounted on a platform that costs around 600-700 points, so it's unlikely to make that much of a difference. Over the course of a game killing RG might be worthwhile, but most other support characters either a) travel in packs (like AM) or b) only really matter for one turn (like Custodes). And specifically in the case of RG and his gunline, a knight is pretty easy to remove in a turn.

I might be missing something, there are probably perks and stratagems - but 700 points doesn't buy you the defensive stats of 2.5 Predators with a moderate invul.

Cards on the table - I don't like knights, I kind of like the fact they suck and so don't tend to appear on tables - but I can't believe GW would do that.
Leaving aside a calculation on damage, what is a loaded out Storm Surge? Around 400 points? I guess you can say 8 more wounds, one point more toughness, but I am not seeing it.

 Marmatag wrote:
Still has to hit, still has to wound. And, even after all of that, still has a 1/3 chance to deal 1 or 2 damage.

We already have the Vindicare Assassin, and you can bring 3 of them, and they don't see play.

Hit is issue but remember rerolls. If hit and wounded weirdboy is 75% insta gibbed and frankly even 2 wounds put him on risky spot. IG warlord with regeneration CP is also pretty likely gibbled if hit and wounded.

It's not broken but some support characters are very vulnerable and some of those are crutches for army. Orks without da jump will be lot worse suddenly.

Remember people there is a whole book of strategems, warlord traits, and relics just for a handful of knight models.

I am quite sure knights will be cp hogs. But I full expect to see Guard catachan leman Russ armies with a castalan model in the center.
Get first turn move knight up with your tanks or infantry as an assault screen. Kill off support chacters not RG but psykers, company commanders the 3-4 wound or less buffers. Opponents turn give all those support units a 5++ or use the obvious strategems that will make this knight a 3++ or 4++ unit. Once your opponent is done focusing on this monstrousity and it survives a turn. Get it right inside your opponents deployment so it bloes up by his units. This knight just needs to survive 1-2 turns to do what you need it to do. Which is be the focus of your opponent. Heck even the plasma gun is useful to explode the model when and where you want.

Rather expensive platform and one trick pony spring to mind.

That is not going to be breaking much, let alone the meta.

Nice to have in order to finish pesky sub 10 wound dudes, but really, for the points this thing will cost?

Tyel wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Most of the rumors have this missile mounted on a platform that costs around 600-700 points, so it's unlikely to make that much of a difference. Over the course of a game killing RG might be worthwhile, but most other support characters either a) travel in packs (like AM) or b) only really matter for one turn (like Custodes). And specifically in the case of RG and his gunline, a knight is pretty easy to remove in a turn.

I might be missing something, there are probably perks and stratagems - but 700 points doesn't buy you the defensive stats of 2.5 Predators with a moderate invul.

Cards on the table - I don't like knights, I kind of like the fact they suck and so don't tend to appear on tables - but I can't believe GW would do that.
Leaving aside a calculation on damage, what is a loaded out Storm Surge? Around 400 points? I guess you can say 8 more wounds, one point more toughness, but I am not seeing it.

This new super knight is going to cost at least 700 points. Storm surges cost 400ish depending on build but it has no where near the firepower of this knight - it's only t7 with 0 close combat ability too.

I think the preferred build for the super knight with be 4 mini battle cannons super flamer and super plasma.

My guess is that this may be an attempt to make an all-knight list at least somewhat viable, giving Knights access to play with certain mechanics normally left to distinct specialists (like assassins) for the couple of instances where they'd need *something* in order to be viable. It's potentially very powerful, but practically its value is more psychological I think with the high variability involved, especially depending on the type of opponent you're facing, they may not have any big important juicy targets for something like this.