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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 05:33:30
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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Eldenfirefly wrote:My point is that Valiant is more multi purpose because it is also good against hordes. I don't really think Castellan is that great against hordes.
Sure, there are other targets. But you haven't seen armies made up of nothing but horde like models? I have seen lists like that. Nothing but characters and infantry type models. Zero vehicles, zero titanic units.
Castellan likes to hang back and shoot, so those melta guns are often wasted. Valiant likes to close in and shoot, so the melta guns are not wasted. The biggest weakness of going closer to shoot (that of being charged in melee) is much reduced for the Valiant because its Confrag cannon is so devastating. I am just saying that the Valiant is good in a lot more situations than the Castellan. And even against titanic units, which the castellan is better, I think the Valiant is not really that far behind if it gets into that sweet spot 12 inch range where it can bring its 4 melta guns into play. Sure, you could argue that the Castellan can also use those same 4 melta guns, but if you are playing the Castellan, would you really be trying to move it into close range?
Yes. But you have other knights for horde clearing. There's no other model as adept at clearing vehicles and monsters as castellan.
Castellan only likes to hang back and shoot because YOU decide so. Note it actually gains nothing from it. It can move and shoot without penalty nor does it have beneficitial rule requiring to sit back. IT CAN MOVE AND SHOOT EQUALLY GOOD! So you are wasting it's potential by sitting back and shooting. Sure you CAN shoot yourself on foot like that but you know other players want to use 100% of it rather than 70%.
And yes I will be moving and shooting. More guns and objectives to control. Knights don't have models enough to sit back and shoot. don't fall into trap thinking just because it has 48"+ range it has to stay that far. Those ranges allow castellan to hurt enemy from turn 1 rather than turn 2-3 like valiant.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Caederes wrote:It's an easy question if you plan on running two Dominus' as the two are really good together, just very pricey and pretty much lock you out from running an effective four Knight (not counting Armigers) list.
Individually, it's meta based. Assault armies that specifically don't have Overwatch denial or easy ways to stop you falling back? Valiant. Enemy super heavies that are hard to reach? Castellan. Aeldari/Raven Guard/any army with lots of negative hit modifiers, especially ones loaded up on flyers? Valiant. Tanks everywhere? Castellan. Board control? Valiant. Daemon Primarchs? Castellan. Hordes? Valiant. Enemy Knights? Castellan.
Whichever Dominus ticks most of those categories is the one you should play.
Fliers. Castellan actually pretty much cripples alaitoc flier without even looking at meltagun/shoulder guns. With shoulder guns one shotting one is hardly impossibility. Especially if you are willing to risk average of 2 mortal wounds to yourself(and don't have reroll 1's which is possible to get)
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/06 05:36:59
2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 07:01:42
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
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It is pretty simple.
I pick the Castellan because I will play House Taranis. As Mechanicum Knight I can pick the Plasma Relic.
As Imperial House player I would pick the Valiant because of the Flamer Relic.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 07:40:42
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
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I'm also a big fan of the valiant because of the idea of getting up in their grill and then heroic sacrificing. A very likely 2d6 (and possibly 3d6) radius d6 mortal wound nuke going off in the middle of their dudes is a game winning play, and the only tactic most armies can use to avoid it is to just not kill your dude, which is obviously not a great plan. I plan on going raven to send him advancing in full speed while firing everything and having the mechanicus strats available.
I mean yeah the catellan can do it too, but is a lot more vulnerable to melee threats without the boss flamer.
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20000+ points
Tournament reports:
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 14:24:53
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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niv-mizzet wrote:I'm also a big fan of the valiant because of the idea of getting up in their grill and then heroic sacrificing. A very likely 2d6 (and possibly 3d6) radius d6 mortal wound nuke going off in the middle of their dudes is a game winning play, and the only tactic most armies can use to avoid it is to just not kill your dude, which is obviously not a great plan. I plan on going raven to send him advancing in full speed while firing everything and having the mechanicus strats available.
I mean yeah the catellan can do it too, but is a lot more vulnerable to melee threats without the boss flamer.
That doesn't make much sense.
The last sentence.
If you are trying to get the knight killed for a Nuke, you want the vulnerability to melee threats.
Don't get me wrong; the valiant is still better suited to up-close and personal, or at least that is where he wants to be. So this tactic is great for him(your opponent is left with a no-win decision: do I kill is and get nuked, or let it run rampant?)
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This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 15:41:45
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Fixture of Dakka
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I'm impressed at how difficult of a choice this is. I am annoyed that I can't just magnetize the arms and be able to switch between the two freely.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 17:25:59
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Preacher of the Emperor
Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror
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LunarSol wrote:I'm impressed at how difficult of a choice this is. I am annoyed that I can't just magnetize the arms and be able to switch between the two freely.
Agreed 100%. As a professed master of magnetism this irks me to no end, especially considering their predilection to making dual kits these days to minimize mold making. I guess they figured since it was a big ticket item they would maximize sales. Makes me wonder if the same thing is happening to the Armigers (which is why I did not magnetize the ones I got in Forgebane, knowing shenanigans would happen).
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17,000 points (Valhallan)
10,000 points
6,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 7 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 8 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"
-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 17:58:56
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
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You don’t actually have to magnetize Armigers other than the top weapon, as the arms have a bayonet lock.
SJ
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“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 18:36:03
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Locked in the Tower of Amareo
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generalchaos34 wrote: LunarSol wrote:I'm impressed at how difficult of a choice this is. I am annoyed that I can't just magnetize the arms and be able to switch between the two freely.
Agreed 100%. As a professed master of magnetism this irks me to no end, especially considering their predilection to making dual kits these days to minimize mold making. I guess they figured since it was a big ticket item they would maximize sales. Makes me wonder if the same thing is happening to the Armigers (which is why I did not magnetize the ones I got in Forgebane, knowing shenanigans would happen).
Armiger variants are own boxes as weil. Helsingers comes now, warglaives sometimes later in year. For now forgebane is only source for them
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2024 painted/bought: 109/109 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 18:51:06
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Fixture of Dakka
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generalchaos34 wrote: LunarSol wrote:I'm impressed at how difficult of a choice this is. I am annoyed that I can't just magnetize the arms and be able to switch between the two freely.
Agreed 100%. As a professed master of magnetism this irks me to no end, especially considering their predilection to making dual kits these days to minimize mold making. I guess they figured since it was a big ticket item they would maximize sales. Makes me wonder if the same thing is happening to the Armigers (which is why I did not magnetize the ones I got in Forgebane, knowing shenanigans would happen).
The real shame is I would have bought both a Dominus and Armiger kit without thinking about it if I could swap the weapons around. Attempting to get me to buy both is currently causing me to buy neither.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 18:54:20
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I just ordered mine.
Help me decide, dakka dakka, you're my only hope.
I want it to blow stuff up while I make pew pew noises and I lurve plasma weapons.
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 19:22:08
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Lord Commander in a Plush Chair
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kronk wrote:I just ordered mine.
Help me decide, dakka dakka, you're my only hope.
I want it to blow stuff up while I make pew pew noises and I lurve plasma weapons.
If you just ordered one; you have already decided. You get the one you ordered.
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This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 19:53:23
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Oh, they don't have both guns in each box? I guess I haven't been paying attention. gak.
Better go look and see.
Edit: I bought the Knight Castellan. Pew Pew noises attained.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/06 19:54:21
DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 19:58:17
Subject: Re:Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Long-Range Land Speeder Pilot
UK
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With this not being a dual purpose kit, I think the Castellan has the "easiest" arms to fabricate of the two so magnetising might not be off the table. Would be interested to see scale shots of the Dominus next to thermic plasma regulators as they have similar proportions to the front half of the decimator, and a RFBC suitably extended/minus the shield might get the job done as a lance?
Does anyone know yet if you are able to take 3 of the same carapace hardpoints or is it always 2:1? I'm thinking 3 siege cannons would be the go to in low CP/exalted court lists.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 20:00:00
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
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tneva82 wrote: generalchaos34 wrote: LunarSol wrote:I'm impressed at how difficult of a choice this is. I am annoyed that I can't just magnetize the arms and be able to switch between the two freely.
Agreed 100%. As a professed master of magnetism this irks me to no end, especially considering their predilection to making dual kits these days to minimize mold making. I guess they figured since it was a big ticket item they would maximize sales. Makes me wonder if the same thing is happening to the Armigers (which is why I did not magnetize the ones I got in Forgebane, knowing shenanigans would happen).
Armiger variants are own boxes as weil. Helsingers comes now, warglaives sometimes later in year. For now forgebane is only source for them
Didn’t they say they are releasing the Armiger warglaives next week too?
Or did I misread something. Hmm
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 21:14:53
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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With getting almost 2 wardens for the cost of a dominus - I see no reason to take the dominus now.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 21:59:56
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Fixture of Dakka
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Xenomancers wrote:With getting almost 2 wardens for the cost of a dominus - I see no reason to take the dominus now.
Not sure where you're getting that kind of pricing. Warden is min cost 411, Dominus is minium 500.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 22:45:37
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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LunarSol wrote: Xenomancers wrote:With getting almost 2 wardens for the cost of a dominus - I see no reason to take the dominus now.
Not sure where you're getting that kind of pricing. Warden is min cost 411, Dominus is minium 500.
Ive seen the codex. Dominus class is 510 base without weapons. Warden I want to say was 295 and with weapons comes out a little over 400.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/06 23:20:23
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/06 22:50:04
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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I think he meant money wise
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Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 00:14:14
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Warden is 411 minimum, Valiant is 585 minimum and Castellan is 595 minimum (though Valiant and Castellan will likely always be 594 and 604 respectively as two Siegebreakers and two Shieldbreakers looks to be much better than one Siegebreaker and four Shieldbreakers). You get just under one and a half Wardens for the price of a Valiant or Castellan.
Reason to take the Dominus' is because they look awesome, but both also offer something other Knights can't efficiently replicate (which may change if Forge World lowers the points costs of their variants).
Of course, something to note is that a House Krast Crusader with the +1/2 damage relic can actually make short work of a lot of things, even other Knights.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 00:48:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 01:55:59
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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How many models can you get with two Dominus at 2k points?
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 02:18:46
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Fixture of Dakka
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Xenomancers wrote: LunarSol wrote: Xenomancers wrote:With getting almost 2 wardens for the cost of a dominus - I see no reason to take the dominus now.
Not sure where you're getting that kind of pricing. Warden is min cost 411, Dominus is minium 500.
Ive seen the codex. Dominus class is 510 base without weapons. Warden I want to say was 295 and with weapons comes out a little over 400.
You don’t pay for the arm weapons. Definitely can’t get close to 2 wardens for a dominus Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sadly you can’t make 2 wardens from the renegade box. The avenger is one of the weapons you only get one of. Automatically Appended Next Post:
With Guard quite a few
If you mean questors it’s possible to fit 2 more.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 02:24:01
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 03:50:43
Subject: Re:Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
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Insularum wrote:With this not being a dual purpose kit, I think the Castellan has the "easiest" arms to fabricate of the two so magnetising might not be off the table. Would be interested to see scale shots of the Dominus next to thermic plasma regulators as they have similar proportions to the front half of the decimator, and a RFBC suitably extended/minus the shield might get the job done as a lance?
Does anyone know yet if you are able to take 3 of the same carapace hardpoints or is it always 2:1? I'm thinking 3 siege cannons would be the go to in low CP/exalted court lists.
Always a 2/1 one way or the other. Shame I'm sure it will be fine in game bit three cannons would have looked way better to me.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/07 03:51:21
BlaxicanX wrote:A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 03:59:04
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Fresh-Faced New User
Sydney, Australia
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Ordered the Valiant last night.
So I guess I am committed now.
I am probably still going to magnetise - at some future point there might be a combined kit or an upgrade sprue or a 3d printed customisation or a whole load of green stuff.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 04:33:20
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran
McCragge
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LunarSol wrote: Xenomancers wrote: LunarSol wrote: Xenomancers wrote:With getting almost 2 wardens for the cost of a dominus - I see no reason to take the dominus now.
Not sure where you're getting that kind of pricing. Warden is min cost 411, Dominus is minium 500.
Ive seen the codex. Dominus class is 510 base without weapons. Warden I want to say was 295 and with weapons comes out a little over 400.
You don’t pay for the arm weapons. Definitely can’t get close to 2 wardens for a dominus
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sadly you can’t make 2 wardens from the renegade box. The avenger is one of the weapons you only get one of.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
With Guard quite a few
If you mean questors it’s possible to fit 2 more.
I meant pure knight.
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Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!
Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."
"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."
DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 05:08:22
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Pure Knight, if you do two dominus (since you're talking 1200~ points taken up by those) you can potentially fit in 2 of the cheaper medium size knights, or maybe like 4 of the armigers.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 06:49:46
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Dakka Veteran
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Well the eBay sale forced my hand as I couldn’t pass up 40% off retail. So a Castellan it is! I chose long range fire support as most of my Knights currently are fairly short ranged. I’ll get the Valiant eventually, or just magnetize and hope for some 3rd party options soon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 13:35:18
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Caederes wrote:Warden is 411 minimum, Valiant is 585 minimum and Castellan is 595 minimum (though Valiant and Castellan will likely always be 594 and 604 respectively as two Siegebreakers and two Shieldbreakers looks to be much better than one Siegebreaker and four Shieldbreakers). You get just under one and a half Wardens for the price of a Valiant or Castellan.
Reason to take the Dominus' is because they look awesome, but both also offer something other Knights can't efficiently replicate (which may change if Forge World lowers the points costs of their variants).
Of course, something to note is that a House Krast Crusader with the +1/2 damage relic can actually make short work of a lot of things, even other Knights.
I see now how I am mistaken.
Ahh I see - twin melta guns are free....how unbelievably stupid. GW just needs a new rules team straight up. Meltagun - 17 points. Twin meltagun - 0 points?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/06/07 13:37:29
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 13:43:02
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Fixture of Dakka
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Xenomancers wrote:Caederes wrote:Warden is 411 minimum, Valiant is 585 minimum and Castellan is 595 minimum (though Valiant and Castellan will likely always be 594 and 604 respectively as two Siegebreakers and two Shieldbreakers looks to be much better than one Siegebreaker and four Shieldbreakers). You get just under one and a half Wardens for the price of a Valiant or Castellan.
Reason to take the Dominus' is because they look awesome, but both also offer something other Knights can't efficiently replicate (which may change if Forge World lowers the points costs of their variants).
Of course, something to note is that a House Krast Crusader with the +1/2 damage relic can actually make short work of a lot of things, even other Knights.
I see now how I am mistaken.
Ahh I see - twin melta guns are free....how unbelievably stupid. GW just needs a new rules team straight up. Meltagun - 17 points. Twin meltagun - 0 points?
Are they not in the base cost of the Knight?
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 13:58:22
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Fixture of Dakka
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drbored wrote:Pure Knight, if you do two dominus (since you're talking 1200~ points taken up by those) you can potentially fit in 2 of the cheaper medium size knights, or maybe like 4 of the armigers.
You'll almost certainly want a Questoris so you can keep your command points. At that point 2 Armigers fit for a total of 5 models.
In terms of sheer maximum body count, I think if you take 2 Valiants with twin Stormbreakers, it leaves enough room for 5 Warglaives with a little room to spare.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/06/07 13:58:36
Subject: Knight Valiant or Castellan
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Omnipotent Necron Overlord
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Yeah...but why? Just reduce the base cost of the knight and pay for the meltaguns...that is how it supposed to work.
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If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
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