Knight Valiant or Castellan

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**pm713**

It's easier? It stops the risk of you making a mistake making a list when you just add the unit.

**Xenomancers**

pm713 wrote:
It's easier? It stops the risk of you making a mistake making a list when you just add the unit.

It's really not easier. When some weapons cost points and some weapons don't - that is more difficult. They need to be consistent across the board with this stuff.

**LunarSol**

Xenomancers wrote:
pm713 wrote:
It's easier? It stops the risk of you making a mistake making a list when you just add the unit.

It's really not easier. When some weapons cost points and some weapons don't - that is more difficult. They need to be consistent across the board with this stuff.

I'd vote for consistency as well. The logic seems to be "its built in unless you can swap for it, then its not" but that logic isn't as consistent as "its not built in ever".

**Xenomancers**

LunarSol wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
pm713 wrote:
It's easier? It stops the risk of you making a mistake making a list when you just add the unit.

It's really not easier. When some weapons cost points and some weapons don't - that is more difficult. They need to be consistent across the board with this stuff.

I'd vote for consistency as well. The logic seems to be "its built in unless you can swap for it, then its not" but that logic isn't as consistent as "its not built in ever".

Well with baneblades you pay for a demolisher cannon even though it has no other option. There are more examples I just can't think of any.

**LunarSol**

Xenomancers wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
pm713 wrote:
It's easier? It stops the risk of you making a mistake making a list when you just add the unit.

It's really not easier. When some weapons cost points and some weapons don't - that is more difficult. They need to be consistent across the board with this stuff.

I'd vote for consistency as well. The logic seems to be "its built in unless you can swap for it, then its not" but that logic isn't as consistent as "its not built in ever".

Well with baneblades you pay for a demolisher cannon even though it has no other option. There are more examples I just can't think of any.

I suppose its technically true of all the Questor variants, but that's largely because of their weird, pointless breakdown into multiple datasheets.

**Crazyterran**

Valiant if you are giving the relics to other models, Castellan if you are planning on giving whichever a relic, IMO. The Valiant is an up gunned Acheron, but the Acheron moves faster, has a good combat weapon, can heal itself (now and then) and is cheaper.

**Kommissar Kel**

Xenomancers wrote:
Yeah...but why? Just reduce the base cost of the knight and pay for the meltaguns...that is how it supposed to work.

That is not "how it is supposed to work".

Meltaguns are optional upgrades, Twin Meltaguns are only on the Big guys and cannot be changed.

Just like Bolters or Lasguns cost 0 points in the armies where they are the basic weapon of the troops(space Marines and Guardsmen); the cost of the model includes the basic gun.

**Eldarain**

I can't decide. I've had either one or the other in mind off and on all week.

Leaning Castellan right now as the biggest threats to Kiniggits tends to be big powerful models that the Castellan is made to slag.

But the Valiants board control and solid answer to - to hit stacking and melee threats.

Argh!

**tneva82**

Ideasweasel wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
generalchaos34 wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
I'm impressed at how difficult of a choice this is. I am annoyed that I can't just magnetize the arms and be able to switch between the two freely.

Agreed 100%. As a professed master of magnetism this irks me to no end, especially considering their predilection to making dual kits these days to minimize mold making. I guess they figured since it was a big ticket item they would maximize sales. Makes me wonder if the same thing is happening to the Armigers (which is why I did not magnetize the ones I got in Forgebane, knowing shenanigans would happen).

Armiger variants are own boxes as weil. Helsingers comes now, warglaives sometimes later in year. For now forgebane is only source for them

Didn’t they say they are releasing the Armiger warglaives next week too?

Or did I misread something. Hmm

That release info came after I posted. I was under impression they come with the special character who is later in year. Well good news they come sooner rather than later.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xenomancers wrote:
Caederes wrote:
Warden is 411 minimum, Valiant is 585 minimum and Castellan is 595 minimum (though Valiant and Castellan will likely always be 594 and 604 respectively as two Siegebreakers and two Shieldbreakers looks to be much better than one Siegebreaker and four Shieldbreakers). You get just under one and a half Wardens for the price of a Valiant or Castellan.

Reason to take the Dominus' is because they look awesome, but both also offer something other Knights can't efficiently replicate (which may change if Forge World lowers the points costs of their variants).

Of course, something to note is that a House Krast Crusader with the +1/2 damage relic can actually make short work of a lot of things, even other Knights.

I see now how I am mistaken.
Ahh I see - twin melta guns are free....how unbelievably stupid. GW just needs a new rules team straight up. Meltagun - 17 points. Twin meltagun - 0 points?

Hey you think that's weird? VOLCANO CANNON 0 pts

The price is baked into hull. If nobody else can use that weapon it's baked into cost of the hull.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Xenomancers wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
Xenomancers wrote:
pm713 wrote:
It's easier? It stops the risk of you making a mistake making a list when you just add the unit.

It's really not easier. When some weapons cost points and some weapons don't - that is more difficult. They need to be consistent across the board with this stuff.

I'd vote for consistency as well. The logic seems to be "its built in unless you can swap for it, then its not" but that logic isn't as consistent as "its not built in ever".

Well with baneblades you pay for a demolisher cannon even though it has no other option. There are more examples I just can't think of any.

That's because demolisher cannon is usable on leman russ...

**jeffersonian000**

It’s easy to decide. You already know which faction you prefer, so if it’s Mechanicus get the Castellan first, if it’s Imperial get the Valiant first. And then get the other one later on.

If you cannot decide on the faction, don’t get either.

SJ

**Skalathrax8**

Neither. Get a Cerastus Lancer with hawkshroud, landstrider. First turn charge with the right stratagem. Its personal preference.

**Eldarain**

I already have one. Went with Castellan as it's almost always the right call to go with the shootiest option with the biggest guns.

**Xenomancers**

Eldarain wrote:
I already have one. Went with Castellan as it's almost always the right call to go with the shootiest option with the biggest guns.

I got both - made castellan first - played it in a 2k game with a bunch of other more agressive knights. It was completely ignored with it's 4++ save from warlord trait.

It's kill tally? 8 wraiths - 6 heavy destroyers - 10 immortals - 4 lychgaurd. In 3 turns. It did pretty well I'd say.

**Purifying Tempest**

I've got to play a game with the Valiant, but not in a full knight army. It was Hawkshroud and the opposing army was fairly aggressive on moving into the field of play (enables the shorter ranged weapons sooner).

It was an absolute blast to play. Probably didn't make its points back in kills, but definitely screened my army for 2 full turns and went out with a blast (Valiant Last Stand is spectacular with the Relic flamer). There was also a couple of misplays on my part that downed how useful the knight was.

**Ideasweasel**

I’m thinking of magnetising it and then giving either a shot. I suspect The Castellan is the more sensible choice. That said the Valiant just looks so much fun!

**generalchaos34**

Ideasweasel wrote:
I’m thinking of magnetising it and then giving either a shot. I suspect The Castellan is the more sensible choice. That said the Valiant just looks so much fun!

Unfortunately unless you come across the weapons online (unlikely) you wont be able to do that unless you plan on building your own weapons from scratch

**BlackCadian**

Sooooo - any update on the verdict? I was really close to getting a Valiant but the whole „full effectiveness from turn 1“ eventually swung me the other way. Plus the option of getting close to the enemy or not instead of having to do it.

**Scott-S6**

I think the answer is still - it depends on the rest of your army.

The castellan is certainly the safe choice though.

**MarkM**

If you are talking competitive, I suggest you play spot the Valiant in the hundreds of lists for the ATC and ETC events.

**Ice_can**

So what's the odds that the castellen gets a points increase in either the FAQ or CA2018?

**Silentz**

Ice_can wrote:
So what's the odds that the castellen gets a points increase in the FAQ?

0% - they have stated they do not do points changes in FAQs

Ice_can wrote:
So what's the odds that the castellen gets a points increase in CA2018?

>0% but still low. And any change is unlikely to be dramatic. They are not unfairly costed and certainly won't get some kind of mental nerf 3 months after release.

**Stux**

Silentz wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
So what's the odds that the castellen gets a points increase in the FAQ?

0% - they have stated they do not do points changes in FAQs

Ice_can wrote:
So what's the odds that the castellen gets a points increase in CA2018?

>0% but still low. And any change is unlikely to be dramatic. They are not unfairly costed and certainly won't get some kind of mental nerf 3 months after release.

Erm... There were points changes in the March (April) Big FAQ actually.