Switch Theme:

Codex Imperial Knights - A Legacy of Honor  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Ice_can wrote:
Inevitableq wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Ditch the shrine, it is completely useless.


Its filling points as i literally have zero imperial units out side of:
Shrine
Castellan
Valiant
2x questoris magnatized for all options
2x helverin
4x warglaive

Carapace weapons are better than the shrine.
Might take some Ebay hunting but shouldn't be too expensive with some searching as your not after the guantlet or avenger like most people.
carapace weapons besides what they already have?
Both questoris models have ironstorm missles equipped already. Do i really want more meltas? Both helverins have meltas already so the shrine would just be replaced by dead points and 2 more meltas on the questoris models.
   
Made in sg
Longtime Dakkanaut





Personally, I think a Gallant is good enough with its basic weaponery such that it doesn't need to further add on hierlooms like that paragon gauntlet. If you are already hitting stuff with a WS 2+ and you have access to a basic reaper chainsword and a thunderstrike Gauntlet, there aren't many things that would stand up to you in close combat when you charge them.

Actually, we might want to consider how well an IK army fares against other good lists right now rather than just against rival IK lists. somehow, I don't think we will always be playing only other IK lists as our opponents.

And while the full tilt strategem sounds really yummy, please don't forget that screens are almost mandatory for good lists these days. It is likely that using that 2 cp full tilt strategem will just result in your gallant charging into a cheap screen. Some lists have multiple screens, so kill one and they will have the next one ready nearby to prevent you from getting to their important units.

Consider what this index did to buff up other imperium lists. Astra Mimilarium just got a super cheap 354 point imperial knight Gallant that is a monster in close combat and great for counter charging. They can flood the board with cheap bodies, have tons of CP, and we all know how devastating their artillery can get. Now for just 354 points, they can now also have a Gallant that shores up on AM's biggest weakness.. close combat melee.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 02:32:30


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




A penny for your thoughts regarding the Gallant.

If the intention is to get into combat turn 1 and not be house Raven. Do you think it is pointless taking a carapace weapon? My thoughts are more aligned to either not going first/turn 2 onwards, but, it is 16-45 points that could just be wasted if it dies first turn.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Apply Blessed By the Sancristans on your Gallant’s feet, have fun.
   
Made in gb
Combat Jumping Rasyat




East of England

Barebones all the way for me. 354pts that absolutely has to be shot off the board.

Alongside a cheap IG battalion, we're talking 534pts for 5cps, chaff/board control and a 'shootme!' CC monster. I think a lot of Imperium armies are going to be including that as their baseline, before adding their favourite BA/DW/SoB/Custard elements.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

the_Grak wrote:
Spoiler:
Mandragola wrote:
the_Grak wrote:
 kinratha wrote:

Will FW provides a FAQ, allowing the use of Forgeworld.[/b]


What exactly is stopping us from using forgeworld? Besides a few stratagems and relics, I didn't see any specific restrictions.

The Knight lancer as House Terryn with the Warlord trait of Knight senschal and Helm of the nameless warrior looks pretty nice.


Until FAQ'd, none of the FW knights have the Imperial Knights keyword, and if taken in a detachment with Codex knights they all lose the Knight Lance and Household Traditions special rules (as they require every unit to have the Imperial Knight keyword).

Unless I'm mistaken, RAW this means that if you took a FW knight and Questor Imperialis Armigers you could get the +3CP from a normal Super Heavy Detachment (but not the Household Traditions and no models would be a character).

Right, but it's reasonable to assume this will be FAQd shortly to something rational. I don't think we should have to wait for that to happen before discussing whether we think FW knights are any good.

Let's assume that RAI is for FW knights to count for lances, to have the right keywords and so on. Would you take them?


If the Styrix gets a point drop then I'd be tempted. A build with House Taranis, Landstrider, and a 2+ armor save seems pretty damn resilient. 2+/4++(5++ against melee)/6+FNP/ and heal 1 wound every turn on a 5+ before stratagems. Landstrider gets him into the thick of it to make the most of his durability.

Maybe. I wouldn’t go for landstrider, as he can’t fire if he advances. Landstrider is mainly good for house Raven, or for zerging a Gallant across the board.

Durability is a bit tricky, because really it’s about how hard it is to kill any given amount of points in your army. So plaguebearers are tougher than terminators, because they are harder to get rid of, despite being much less tough individually. Actually, Styrix aren’t in a bad place here, as they are significantly tougher with their 4++. If they come down in price at all they’ll look pretty good.

The other problem with it is that it’s only relevant if you’re being attacked. You could end up in the situation where the Styrix is the least threatening of your knights, and the hardest to kill. In that scenario your opponent would do well to ignore the thing and focus his firepower elsewhere - which then negates the Styrix’s advantage.

This is why the Ion bulwark warlord trait is so important for a Castellan. It’s a very high-threat knight, costing nearly 50% more than a questoris but with only 16% more wounds. So it’s a great target for your opponent. However, a House Taranis Castellan with a 4++ and a stratagem to let him fire at full effect if wounded should require an awful lot of effort to bring down. I’d be pretty impressed if anyone could do that in a turn. Even a shadowsword should struggle if it rotates its ion shields. A scorpion, which is used to just one-shooting anything it fires at, should only do about 7 wounds, even if stationary and with guide.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

I want, desperately, to run Terryn.

Any of you folks also using Terryn?

Trying to find the best mix of things, but unfortunately our area moved to 1750 and it's making lists slightly interesting, build wise.


I'll add I'm also madly in love the Warglaives and intend to use at least 3, and would happily use more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 12:15:47


Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




 Cephalobeard wrote:
I want, desperately, to run Terryn.

Any of you folks also using Terryn?

Trying to find the best mix of things, but unfortunately our area moved to 1750 and it's making lists slightly interesting, build wise.


I'll add I'm also madly in love the Warglaives and intend to use at least 3, and would happily use more.


Won't you miss either Hawkshroud's resillience or a mechancus house's machine spirit resurgent strat? I really want to run one of the cooler Imperialis houses but am afraid to have gimped knights halfway during the battle. Also, what makes the warglaives so good in your opinion? The Helverin just seems like a better deal; quite interested in your POV

Do you have a sample list of what you might be running?
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I want, desperately, to run Terryn.

Any of you folks also using Terryn?

Trying to find the best mix of things, but unfortunately our area moved to 1750 and it's making lists slightly interesting, build wise.


I'll add I'm also madly in love the Warglaives and intend to use at least 3, and would happily use more.
Terryn seems decent - but then so do all the houses. It's not a bad pick. I've considered adding an auxiliary Terryn Gallant to my Taranis army, though on the whole I don't think I'll bother.

My guess is that you'd want a Gallant, someone with Landstrider and a CP battery so you can use the full tilt and fight twice strats. A crusader wtih RFBC would be a good pick for your warlord, maybe with Ion Bulwark and the relic battlecannon.

You don't have to go nuts like that though. A group of Armigers ranging ahead, perhaps backed up by a Preceptor, could be good. I think Armigers are pretty good value for their price.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

While I may miss Hawkshroud's resilience, raven's run and gun, or Taranis' refusal to yield, I believe in the raw aggression of Terryn.

My current list is, more or less:

Imperial Knight Lance, 1750 Army

SuperHeavy:

Knight Lancer –
Warlord (4++), Relic (2+ Armor)

Knight Gallant –
Warlord

3x Armiger Warglaives
Melta Gun, x3

Cadian Battalion:

2x Company Commander –

3x 9 Infantry, 1 Mortar –

AM Battalion:

1x Company Commander

1x Dkok Marshal

3x 9 Infantry, 1 Mortar


-------

I'm a huge fan, and can't wait to run it, but unfortunately it revolves around the FW FAQ allowing the Lancer, and not gimping any strats.

Mostly just curious what other folks might be doing with Terryn, themselves.


Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






Mechanicus houses are the only ones that can currently be affected by Master of machines(other than Cawl's special version).

An Imperialis house is the only reason to take the forgeshrine.

This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Gryphonne wrote:
 Cephalobeard wrote:
I want, desperately, to run Terryn.

Any of you folks also using Terryn?

Trying to find the best mix of things, but unfortunately our area moved to 1750 and it's making lists slightly interesting, build wise.


I'll add I'm also madly in love the Warglaives and intend to use at least 3, and would happily use more.


Won't you miss either Hawkshroud's resillience or a mechancus house's machine spirit resurgent strat? I really want to run one of the cooler Imperialis houses but am afraid to have gimped knights halfway during the battle. Also, what makes the warglaives so good in your opinion? The Helverin just seems like a better deal; quite interested in your POV

Do you have a sample list of what you might be running?


List is above.

I like Warglaives, only as Terryn, due to Sally Forth.

If I full tilt a Knight into your deployment turn 1, I'm likely going to still have you there t2, perfect for some Warglaive Squires to take advantage of some gaps and show up in time to fire off 1d3+1 melta shots into vehicles, then rock a 3d6 dropping the lowest charge. They pack a decent little punch, especially if they can guarantee not being shot turn 1, and then an all but secure charge turn 2.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I feel like Warglaives are decent regardless of house. They give you cheaper wounds, faster speeds, decent firepower and combat ability. I’d seriously consider adding some to my marines.

I’m not really sure they warrant full tilt, though perhaps they do. It’s certainly nice to have the option of tying up an enemy unit.
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Cleveland, Ohio, USA

Double check me folks, lemme see if I got this right;

-House Vulker Warden or Crusader
-Warlord trait; Blessed by the Sacristans (Avenger Gatling Cannon)
-Endless Fury Relic (replacing the Avenger)
-Saturation Bombardment Stratagem

Result; 14 shot gatling cannon, every 6 to hit is 4 hits, every 6 to wound is a mortal wound in addition to normal damage, re-rolling 1's to hit vs closest enemy. Every other weapon gets every 6 to hit is 2 hits.

They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines, and they shall know no fear. 
   
Made in es
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker




Barcelona, Spain

Quick question: can I have a single Armiger as an ally in a Super Heavy Aux and still gain access to Freeblade rules? If not, can I at least pay the strategem and give him the Character keyword and a warlord trait?

"Eventually, everything falls to a bolter" 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Connecticut

Mandragola wrote:
I feel like Warglaives are decent regardless of house. They give you cheaper wounds, faster speeds, decent firepower and combat ability. I’d seriously consider adding some to my marines.

I’m not really sure they warrant full tilt, though perhaps they do. It’s certainly nice to have the option of tying up an enemy unit.


Just to clarify, I don't intend to full tilt an armiger ever. Lol

I'd be full tilting my Gallant or Lancer.

Blood Angels, Custodes, Tzeentch, Alpha Legion, Astra Militarum, Deathwatch, Thousand Sons, Imperial Knights, Tau, Genestealer Cult.

I have a problem.

Being contrary for the sake of being contrary doesn't make you unique, it makes you annoying.

 Purifier wrote:
Using your rules isn't being a dick.
 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






 obsidiankatana wrote:
Double check me folks, lemme see if I got this right;

-House Vulker Warden or Crusader
-Warlord trait; Blessed by the Sacristans (Avenger Gatling Cannon)
-Endless Fury Relic (replacing the Avenger)
-Saturation Bombardment Stratagem

Result; 14 shot gatling cannon, every 6 to hit is 4 hits, every 6 to wound is a mortal wound in addition to normal damage, re-rolling 1's to hit vs closest enemy. Every other weapon gets every 6 to hit is 2 hits.

You can't combine Blessed by the Sacristans with a relic weapon. Sorry. Also, I don't think the Stratagem stacks with the relic either, as both say 'two hits' instead of 'one hit more'.

   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 obsidiankatana wrote:
Double check me folks, lemme see if I got this right;

-House Vulker Warden or Crusader
-Warlord trait; Blessed by the Sacristans (Avenger Gatling Cannon)
-Endless Fury Relic (replacing the Avenger)
-Saturation Bombardment Stratagem

Result; 14 shot gatling cannon, every 6 to hit is 4 hits, every 6 to wound is a mortal wound in addition to normal damage, re-rolling 1's to hit vs closest enemy. Every other weapon gets every 6 to hit is 2 hits.


I don’t believe you can use the warlord trait on relic weapons, I’m afraid.

Will need double checking as I don’t have the codex to hand right now though – but I’m pretty sure that’s the case.
   
Made in us
Monstrous Master Moulder




Cleveland, Ohio, USA

 Crimson wrote:
 obsidiankatana wrote:
Double check me folks, lemme see if I got this right;

-House Vulker Warden or Crusader
-Warlord trait; Blessed by the Sacristans (Avenger Gatling Cannon)
-Endless Fury Relic (replacing the Avenger)
-Saturation Bombardment Stratagem

Result; 14 shot gatling cannon, every 6 to hit is 4 hits, every 6 to wound is a mortal wound in addition to normal damage, re-rolling 1's to hit vs closest enemy. Every other weapon gets every 6 to hit is 2 hits.

You can't combine Blessed by the Sacristans with a relic weapon. Sorry. Also, I don't think the Stratagem stacks with the relic either, as both say 'two hits' instead of 'one hit more'.


Shame on losing the warlord trait. The interaction between the stratagem and relic are what interest me more. I could definitely see the interpretation in which they don't stack, but I so very much want them to stack.

They are my bulwark against the Terror. They are the Defenders of Humanity. They are my Space Marines, and they shall know no fear. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




hope I am not doing this incorrectly

start with 13 CP
2x Space Marine Battalions

superheavy aux detachment
Knight gallant
-house terryn
-pay 1cp to make exaulted court - landstrider WL trait
-pay 1cp for relic-gauntlet
-pay 3cp to "sally forth" strat place knight in reserve to outflank

Summary: knight pops on 9" from enemy on a flank, charge, roll 3d6, pick highest 2, and add 2" to charge movement

Alternate option
Super heavy aux detachment
I used a crusader knight, kept it off board, to keep it safe from 1st turn las-cannon alpha strike, incase I did not get to go first, (which I did not, so his las-cannons killed a few primaris marines), moved on to myside of the board 1st turn, shot up his las-cannons , rest of game was mop up
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Inevitableq wrote:

Both questoris models have ironstorm missles equipped already. Do i really want more meltas? Both helverins have meltas already so the shrine would just be replaced by dead points and 2 more meltas on the questoris models.


Those meltas wouid be better than that terrain. Even dead points would be better as you wouldnt be tempted to load knight with it. Only reason to take one is extra terrain for reqular infantry which you lack. Knights have zero use for it

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh




Gunrunner- Aux detachments do not gain any traits or abilities. It does open strategies.

pique311- armigers can only become characters via the detachment rule (you have to have a full non-aux detachment). The strategy that allows you to make characters is for big knights only (no armigers allowed).
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





I see a lot of folks leaning mechanicus, but I find it hard to look at anything other than hawkshroud, that trait is just so overwhelmingly good. It's also not reliant on a single combo like many of the others, it's universally good for any type of list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/06/12 14:20:58


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I find the hype around Hawkshroud’s trait to be pretty amusing. Guard and Eldar have had that trait for a while, but, it is very rarely seen – even in full baneblade lists.

It is good, it is useful, but we’ll just have to wait and see how it does competitively.
   
Made in us
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair






 obsidiankatana wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
 obsidiankatana wrote:
Double check me folks, lemme see if I got this right;

-House Vulker Warden or Crusader
-Warlord trait; Blessed by the Sacristans (Avenger Gatling Cannon)
-Endless Fury Relic (replacing the Avenger)
-Saturation Bombardment Stratagem

Result; 14 shot gatling cannon, every 6 to hit is 4 hits, every 6 to wound is a mortal wound in addition to normal damage, re-rolling 1's to hit vs closest enemy. Every other weapon gets every 6 to hit is 2 hits.

You can't combine Blessed by the Sacristans with a relic weapon. Sorry. Also, I don't think the Stratagem stacks with the relic either, as both say 'two hits' instead of 'one hit more'.


Shame on losing the warlord trait. The interaction between the stratagem and relic are what interest me more. I could definitely see the interpretation in which they don't stack, but I so very much want them to stack.


They definitely do not stack("2 hits instead of 1" on both), but it is all weapons for the strat; so the thermal cannon/rfbc on a crusader and your stubber(s)/carapace weapons all gain some significant potential output.

Dropping endless fury for any other relic might be of use for your plans(I quite like mark of the Omnissiah on my Taranis warlord Crusader, FNP + IWND, then the taranis strat "Our darkest hour" with a Techpriest running around his feet means he has to be exploded to get rid of him) but for Vulker I would probably take the Skyshield, Sanctuary, or a relic melee weapon on a Warden.



This is my Rulebook. There are many Like it, but this one is mine. Without me, my rulebook is useless. Without my rulebook, I am useless.
Stop looking for buzz words and start reading the whole sentences.



 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

Danny slag wrote:
I see a lot of folks leaning mechanicus, but I find it hard to look at anything other than hawkshroud, that trait is just so overwhelmingly good. It's also not reliant on a single combo like many of the others, it's universally good for any type of list.


Mechanicus is really only important for the Castellan, who desperately wants to be house Raven for the amazing stratagem.

Hawkshroud is nice, and in an ideal world, we'd have enough points for an actual detachment with 2-3 knights (and 1-0 armigers), plus the castellan in a separate detachment, plus some guard for the mandatory CP.

As is, I'm not sold on Hawkshroud because the points just don't add up. If you're not planning on running a castellan, Hawkshroud all the way. However, for me, I'm starting with a castellan and working from there, so the Hawkshroud benefit is pretty difficult to obtain unless I give up the relic plasma on the Castellan (or the ability to use the stratagem), but that's not something I want to do.

If I try and make a 3 source list, I keep coming back to either:

Raven Castellan
Freeblade Valiant
Raven Armiger

BA Battalion
Guard Battalion

OR

Raven Castellan
Freeblade Valiant
Raven Warden

Guard Battalion
Guard Battalion

OR

Raven Castellan (SH Aux)

Hawkshroud Valiant (SH Aux)

Guard Brigade

But I don't really like any of those lists THAT much. Want to try and fit the Hawkshroud benefit into my main detachment...just don't know if it's worth the trade offs
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Danny slag wrote:
I see a lot of folks leaning mechanicus, but I find it hard to look at anything other than hawkshroud, that trait is just so overwhelmingly good. It's also not reliant on a single combo like many of the others, it's universally good for any type of list.

It is an awesome trait and my first reaction was that it is the obvious choice. However, there is a mechanicus stratagem which allows you to use the top row, which makes the Hawkshroud ability less essential. And as noted, Castellan really needs that relic plasma or Krast relic.

   
Made in es
Slippery Ultramarine Scout Biker




Barcelona, Spain

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Gunrunner- Aux detachments do not gain any traits or abilities. It does open strategies.

pique311- armigers can only become characters via the detachment rule (you have to have a full non-aux detachment). The strategy that allows you to make characters is for big knights only (no armigers allowed).

Oh that's a shame... Still, they're pretty good for the points (against my regular opponents). Thanks for the answear

"Eventually, everything falls to a bolter" 
   
Made in us
Sister Oh-So Repentia



Illinois

For all the battle reports I've seen that included Knights pre-codex, they were typically blown off the table before they could really earn their points back. As much as I'd like to get some Knight support for a planned Imperial Guard army, I was never convinced they provided enough firepower to be worth the cost.

Do you think that the new codex provides enough tools to make Knights an effective army? Are they better on their own, or as support for another army, or does it not really matter?

2k poorly optimized Necrons.
1k poorly assembled Sisters.

DR:90S++G+MB--I+Pw40k16#+D++A+/aWD-R++T(T)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





NJ

IMO you're still not going to see knights taking a GT. Mortal wounds are too strong and knights can't peel back the layers they need to in time to get to untargetable characters.

Missiles help, yes, but it's only 1 a turn, and far from guaranteed to actually kill a character, even if they only have 4 or 5 wounds.

That being said, I think they now have the tools to compete with other codex armies, as long as they don't run into their hard counters, such as 3 shadowswords or magnus and friends screened by 80 cultists (both armies I saw at the most recent GT I went to)

But if you're not planning on taking them to a GT with the intent of going 6-0 or 5-1, yeah I think they're great. I love the models and am going to convert mine to fall to chaos ASAP

I think a single splash knight next to a normal army or a predominantly knight army (2 big knights or 3-4 normals, or some combination of both) with a side battalion to generate CP (and screen them from mortal wounds) are the two most optimal ways to run them. Going 50/50 (like two questoris class knights and then 1200ish points of something else) doesn't feel to me like its likely to provide enough threat saturation to work well.

But with the amount of options that the imperium has for allies, who knows? Maybe I'm totally wrong.
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: