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Godeskian wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Four Knights and Guilliman might be an interesting list. Gives you 9cp, dont have to take Guard, and gives you an extra inch of run turn one.

Edit: personally, I dont see the point of Dominus in pure Knights list - it stops you from running five Knights and the weapons arent that amazing.

A pair of gallants, a pair of wardens, and a thermal Crusader is good, or a pair of gallants, an errant, a warden, and a BC Crusader might be good as well. I prefer the BC, but it means you trade a BC for a AGC essentially...

At 1750,,and Guilleman being 400 points you almost have to ho with three knights and him in 1750, at least I haven't been able to fit a fourth one in at those points.

Guilleman I think offers a good cp alternative and he's tough as nails in cc, with a native 3++ save. I'm considering running him instead of the fourth gallant

Other than GW whos playing 1750??

RG gives you 9 CP if you run him as the Warlord, but, in a list like that you’re prob going to then be spending at least 4-6 CP for relics and making 1, or 2 additional Knights characters. (you could just spend 1 CP on 1 relic, but, I personally feel that the WL traits and relics are going to be what makes or breaks Knights in most cases)

So, when it comes down to it, you’ll still only be starting with 3-5 CP. Considering that you prob want to save 1 CP to help in case RG gets killed, then, you have to question whether or not RG is going to give you enough to justify the 400 points.

Kdash wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Arlen wrote:
I really like the Krast household in my pure Knight list, because their relic and warlord trait (reroll 1s to hit) are great for my ranged Knights, while the tradition is great for a Gallant running up the field.
I was however wondering if a Mechanicus Valiant with the Krast relic is better then the Traitors pyre or at least a good alternative on the Questor Imperialis variant.
Sure Traitors Pyre is a fantastic weapon, but this relic also boosts all of the Valiants other weapons that seem to be mainly designed around hunting 10+ wound models.

I feel that house Raven is the best for running Valiants. Then your Valiants can advance and still shoot with no penalty. Get landstrider on a nearby knight (it doesn't even have to be on the Valiant itself). Now, you can move advance 12 + d6 and then fire your weapons. Unless the opponent positions literally at the table edge, there is a high chance that such a big advance move will bring you within shooting range of at least his screening units. I mean, the Confrag cannon has a range of 18 inches. so, with house raven and landstrider, your Valiants have a threat range of 12+18+d6... that's 30+d6. lol Even for your melta guns and that harpoon, your threat range is 24+d6.

For titan killing though (if you feel that the biggest threats to an IK list are other knights), then I agree that house Krast is amazing. Not just because they make melee knights great, but that relic of theirs Headman's Mark. It adds 2 damage to all weapons against titanic. The kind of damage it adds to a Dominus class (be it Castellan or Valiant) is absolutely sick. I mean, crawl's wrath is good because it makes plasma decimaters damage 3 on overcharge. But headman's mark makes your plasma decimaters damage 4 against titantic units!!! Plus it doesn't just improve your plasma decimater, it improves all of your other guns by 2 damage against titanic units. I think a shadowsword would be in serious trouble if a Castellan with headman's mark unloaded everything at it.

Don't forget, that Dominus class Knights only move 10" base (though your figures are right if you take Landstrider into account).

As for the Krast relic on a Castellan – I’d still go with the plasma relic.
On average vs a Baneblade a Castellan will do the following (these figures include Plasma, Melta and 2 twin Seigecannons) –

Basic, no buffs – 18.111 wounds
Basic, Krast WL trait – 21.13 wounds
Plasma Relic – 25.32 wounds
Plasma Relic WL – 27.482 wounds
Krast Relic on Plasma – 22 wounds
Krast Relic on Plasma WL – 25.667 wounds
Krast Relic on Melta – 22.111 wounds
Krast Relic on Melta WL – 25.13 wounds

So, as you can see, taking Cawls Wrath and the Krast WL trait to re-roll 1’s will allow you to, on average, put out more damage on a Baneblade, than using the Krast Relic on either standard weapon arm. You also then have the bonus of the extra str, ap and dmg vs everything that is under 10 wounds from the Relic boost, rather than focusing soley on 10+ wound models.

From this analysis it looks like you think the Krast relic only applies to a single weapon. It doesn't - it applies to "the bearer's weapons" - so everything. Even its kicks do more damage. They'll also reroll to hit, which is nice when you only hit on a 4+.

 Crazyterran wrote:

Godeskian wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Four Knights and Guilliman might be an interesting list. Gives you 9cp, dont have to take Guard, and gives you an extra inch of run turn one.

Edit: personally, I dont see the point of Dominus in pure Knights list - it stops you from running five Knights and the weapons arent that amazing.

A pair of gallants, a pair of wardens, and a thermal Crusader is good, or a pair of gallants, an errant, a warden, and a BC Crusader might be good as well. I prefer the BC, but it means you trade a BC for a AGC essentially...

At 1750,,and Guilleman being 400 points you almost have to ho with three knights and him in 1750, at least I haven't been able to fit a fourth one in at those points.

Guilleman I think offers a good cp alternative and he's tough as nails in cc, with a native 3++ save. I'm considering running him instead of the fourth gallant

Other than GW whos playing 1750??

But I've specifically said I'm going to GT, the GW one, so at the moment it's irrelevant to me what anyone else is playing. I need to build my list at 1750


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kdash wrote:
RG gives you 9 CP if you run him as the Warlord, but, in a list like that you’re prob going to then be spending at least 4-6 CP for relics and making 1, or 2 additional Knights characters. (you could just spend 1 CP on 1 relic, but, I personally feel that the WL traits and relics are going to be what makes or breaks Knights in most cases)

So, when it comes down to it, you’ll still only be starting with 3-5 CP. Considering that you prob want to save 1 CP to help in case RG gets killed, then, you have to question whether or not RG is going to give you enough to justify the 400 points.

Fair point actually. Of course big Bobby also gives you cp cycling, and incredibly tough to kill warlord that can't be targeted and a pretty decent cc monster.

Swings and roundabouts I guess


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either way I'm going to end up with two knights with relics and warlord traits. At the moment I'm thinking traitors pyre and paragon gauntlet and landstrider and ion bulwark.

Mandragola wrote:

Kdash wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Arlen wrote:
I really like the Krast household in my pure Knight list, because their relic and warlord trait (reroll 1s to hit) are great for my ranged Knights, while the tradition is great for a Gallant running up the field.
I was however wondering if a Mechanicus Valiant with the Krast relic is better then the Traitors pyre or at least a good alternative on the Questor Imperialis variant.
Sure Traitors Pyre is a fantastic weapon, but this relic also boosts all of the Valiants other weapons that seem to be mainly designed around hunting 10+ wound models.

I feel that house Raven is the best for running Valiants. Then your Valiants can advance and still shoot with no penalty. Get landstrider on a nearby knight (it doesn't even have to be on the Valiant itself). Now, you can move advance 12 + d6 and then fire your weapons. Unless the opponent positions literally at the table edge, there is a high chance that such a big advance move will bring you within shooting range of at least his screening units. I mean, the Confrag cannon has a range of 18 inches. so, with house raven and landstrider, your Valiants have a threat range of 12+18+d6... that's 30+d6. lol Even for your melta guns and that harpoon, your threat range is 24+d6.

For titan killing though (if you feel that the biggest threats to an IK list are other knights), then I agree that house Krast is amazing. Not just because they make melee knights great, but that relic of theirs Headman's Mark. It adds 2 damage to all weapons against titanic. The kind of damage it adds to a Dominus class (be it Castellan or Valiant) is absolutely sick. I mean, crawl's wrath is good because it makes plasma decimaters damage 3 on overcharge. But headman's mark makes your plasma decimaters damage 4 against titantic units!!! Plus it doesn't just improve your plasma decimater, it improves all of your other guns by 2 damage against titanic units. I think a shadowsword would be in serious trouble if a Castellan with headman's mark unloaded everything at it.

Don't forget, that Dominus class Knights only move 10" base (though your figures are right if you take Landstrider into account).

As for the Krast relic on a Castellan – I’d still go with the plasma relic.
On average vs a Baneblade a Castellan will do the following (these figures include Plasma, Melta and 2 twin Seigecannons) –

Basic, no buffs – 18.111 wounds
Basic, Krast WL trait – 21.13 wounds
Plasma Relic – 25.32 wounds
Plasma Relic WL – 27.482 wounds
Krast Relic on Plasma – 22 wounds
Krast Relic on Plasma WL – 25.667 wounds
Krast Relic on Melta – 22.111 wounds
Krast Relic on Melta WL – 25.13 wounds

So, as you can see, taking Cawls Wrath and the Krast WL trait to re-roll 1’s will allow you to, on average, put out more damage on a Baneblade, than using the Krast Relic on either standard weapon arm. You also then have the bonus of the extra str, ap and dmg vs everything that is under 10 wounds from the Relic boost, rather than focusing soley on 10+ wound models.

From this analysis it looks like you think the Krast relic only applies to a single weapon. It doesn't - it applies to "the bearer's weapons" - so everything. Even its kicks do more damage. They'll also reroll to hit, which is nice when you only hit on a 4+.

Oops.

In that case, you can add 4 dmg to Krast Relic Melta, then an additional 2 for the one with WL, due to the plasma generally scoring 2-3 wounds. You can add an additional 2 dmg for the Seigebreaker total as well.

All in all, it doesn’t make that much of a difference though… As if the standard relic plasma can already 1 shot a baneblade “on average”, the extra 6 damage from the WL trait and Krast relic is just wasted. 33 average dmg is nice, but, completely unnecessary.

Adding the dmg to the feet, is, alright, I guess… But, if you haven’t shot the Baneblade off the table before you somehow get into combat with it, then, something else has gone wrong (as you’re looking at 2 turns of shooting…) As for kicking a Rhino or another transport, then, the extra +1 dmg per kick isn’t going to be needed. Likewise with fighting Magnus or Mortarian – the +1 dmg is handy for shooting, but, should never really come up for combat when you’re referring to a Castellan.

I’d be prepared to say, that 99% of the models on the table at an 80-man event are not Titanic, and then at like 90/95% won’t have 10+ wounds.

If you’re taking a Knight for kicking, you might as well just run Cadmus and just get a flat re-roll to wound vs everything with 12 or less wounds in the fight phase.

As for the argument that Krast will help vs Knights, then, when taking the standard 5++ into account, neither setup is going to 1 shot a Knight. The Krast Castellan will do 22 wounds on average, and the relic plasma will do 16.8 on average (without Krast WL trait) and 18 with the trait. So, it then comes down to the fact that the Krast Knight will drop a Knight into its lowest bracket, whereas a standard one won’t.

I’d still argue that the standard relic plasma will then be overall more useful from game to game.

Kdash wrote:

Spoiler:

Mandragola wrote:

Kdash wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:

 Arlen wrote:
I really like the Krast household in my pure Knight list, because their relic and warlord trait (reroll 1s to hit) are great for my ranged Knights, while the tradition is great for a Gallant running up the field.
I was however wondering if a Mechanicus Valiant with the Krast relic is better then the Traitors pyre or at least a good alternative on the Questor Imperialis variant.
Sure Traitors Pyre is a fantastic weapon, but this relic also boosts all of the Valiants other weapons that seem to be mainly designed around hunting 10+ wound models.

I feel that house Raven is the best for running Valiants. Then your Valiants can advance and still shoot with no penalty. Get landstrider on a nearby knight (it doesn't even have to be on the Valiant itself). Now, you can move advance 12 + d6 and then fire your weapons. Unless the opponent positions literally at the table edge, there is a high chance that such a big advance move will bring you within shooting range of at least his screening units. I mean, the Confrag cannon has a range of 18 inches. so, with house raven and landstrider, your Valiants have a threat range of 12+18+d6... that's 30+d6. lol Even for your melta guns and that harpoon, your threat range is 24+d6.

For titan killing though (if you feel that the biggest threats to an IK list are other knights), then I agree that house Krast is amazing. Not just because they make melee knights great, but that relic of theirs Headman's Mark. It adds 2 damage to all weapons against titanic. The kind of damage it adds to a Dominus class (be it Castellan or Valiant) is absolutely sick. I mean, crawl's wrath is good because it makes plasma decimaters damage 3 on overcharge. But headman's mark makes your plasma decimaters damage 4 against titantic units!!! Plus it doesn't just improve your plasma decimater, it improves all of your other guns by 2 damage against titanic units. I think a shadowsword would be in serious trouble if a Castellan with headman's mark unloaded everything at it.

Don't forget, that Dominus class Knights only move 10" base (though your figures are right if you take Landstrider into account).

As for the Krast relic on a Castellan – I’d still go with the plasma relic.
On average vs a Baneblade a Castellan will do the following (these figures include Plasma, Melta and 2 twin Seigecannons) –

Basic, no buffs – 18.111 wounds
Basic, Krast WL trait – 21.13 wounds
Plasma Relic – 25.32 wounds
Plasma Relic WL – 27.482 wounds
Krast Relic on Plasma – 22 wounds
Krast Relic on Plasma WL – 25.667 wounds
Krast Relic on Melta – 22.111 wounds
Krast Relic on Melta WL – 25.13 wounds

So, as you can see, taking Cawls Wrath and the Krast WL trait to re-roll 1’s will allow you to, on average, put out more damage on a Baneblade, than using the Krast Relic on either standard weapon arm. You also then have the bonus of the extra str, ap and dmg vs everything that is under 10 wounds from the Relic boost, rather than focusing soley on 10+ wound models.

From this analysis it looks like you think the Krast relic only applies to a single weapon. It doesn't - it applies to "the bearer's weapons" - so everything. Even its kicks do more damage. They'll also reroll to hit, which is nice when you only hit on a 4+.

Oops.

In that case, you can add 4 dmg to Krast Relic Melta, then an additional 2 for the one with WL, due to the plasma generally scoring 2-3 wounds. You can add an additional 2 dmg for the Seigebreaker total as well.

All in all, it doesn’t make that much of a difference though… As if the standard relic plasma can already 1 shot a baneblade “on average”, the extra 6 damage from the WL trait and Krast relic is just wasted. 33 average dmg is nice, but, completely unnecessary.

Adding the dmg to the feet, is, alright, I guess… But, if you haven’t shot the Baneblade off the table before you somehow get into combat with it, then, something else has gone wrong (as you’re looking at 2 turns of shooting…) As for kicking a Rhino or another transport, then, the extra +1 dmg per kick isn’t going to be needed. Likewise with fighting Magnus or Mortarian – the +1 dmg is handy for shooting, but, should never really come up for combat when you’re referring to a Castellan.

I’d be prepared to say, that 99% of the models on the table at an 80-man event are not Titanic, and then at like 90/95% won’t have 10+ wounds.

If you’re taking a Knight for kicking, you might as well just run Cadmus and just get a flat re-roll to wound vs everything with 12 or less wounds in the fight phase.

As for the argument that Krast will help vs Knights, then, when taking the standard 5++ into account, neither setup is going to 1 shot a Knight. The Krast Castellan will do 22 wounds on average, and the relic plasma will do 16.8 on average (without Krast WL trait) and 18 with the trait. So, it then comes down to the fact that the Krast Knight will drop a Knight into its lowest bracket, whereas a standard one won’t.

I’d still argue that the standard relic plasma will then be overall more useful from game to game.

While I agree that there might be a lack of Titanic models on the average table, I do think however that there are enough 10+ wound models around in every army that you can pretty much expect them in every game.
The only four armies that I can currently think of that in a pure list do not need to put out 10+ wound model to have a decent list seem to be Blood Angels, Dark Eldar, Harlequins and Custodus.
Meanwhile Astra, Tyranids, Tau and Eldar always have at least a few models around with 10+ wounds and these are armies that (in my local meta) seem to be played a lot of times and whom you can certainly expect to see in tournaments.

The only thing I would think to be quite problematic to play against with this relic is Necrons. As your weapons suddenly become worst against their Quantum shielded vehicles as the relic might hinder your effectiveness against them.

I'm going to the GW GT too. Might see you there! I'll be bringing a Taranis army with a Castellan, Warden with ironhail rockets, errant with fist and two warglaives - unless I have a better idea before then.

For that tournament, we can pick stratagems like extra warlords at the start of each game. They don't have to be written on our army lists.

So I'm going to write that I have Cawl's Wrath and Ion Bulwark on my warlord. In lots of games I'll then take cunning commander on one knight and a relic on another. This will usually either be the paragon gauntlet on the errant or endless fury on the warden - depending on whether I'm up against hordes or big crunchy stuff.

Bobby G is the most compelling non-knight option to me. Other stuff introduces problems like massively increasing your drop and kill point counts, while making it less likely that you'll go first.

I'm not sure he's a great pick at 1750 though. The trouble is that he's a force multiplier, and the force he multiplies best is a knight Castellan. It's pretty hard to fit him, a Castellan and two other Questoris knights into 1750. It can just about be done, but the knights you have to take won't have tons of guns - and of course Bobby himself isn't really 400 points worth of shooting.

So overall you've got a great force-multiplier, but much less force to begin with than if you just took more knights. Bobby, a Castellan, Errant and gallant brings way less firepower to the table than the 3 knights and two armigers that I plan to bring, for example. If you don't bring the Castellan then you could have a couple of crusaders and a Warden, but I really don't think giving them rerolls is as valuable as another knight.

Bobby G is actually more damaging in CC than shooting and he really needs to be doing both to stand a chance of making his points back.

The reason he's usually shooting is because the rest of the codex sucks in CC. Pair Bobby G with a Gallant and your now adding an extra 2 in threat range (though Bobby onlu 9 inch move) and reroll1's in 12

 Crazyterran wrote:

Godeskian wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Four Knights and Guilliman might be an interesting list. Gives you 9cp, dont have to take Guard, and gives you an extra inch of run turn one.

Edit: personally, I dont see the point of Dominus in pure Knights list - it stops you from running five Knights and the weapons arent that amazing.

A pair of gallants, a pair of wardens, and a thermal Crusader is good, or a pair of gallants, an errant, a warden, and a BC Crusader might be good as well. I prefer the BC, but it means you trade a BC for a AGC essentially...

At 1750,,and Guilleman being 400 points you almost have to ho with three knights and him in 1750, at least I haven't been able to fit a fourth one in at those points.

Guilleman I think offers a good cp alternative and he's tough as nails in cc, with a native 3++ save. I'm considering running him instead of the fourth gallant

Other than GW whos playing 1750??

My location moved to it. A number of other competitive outlets across the US are trying it as well.

According to a poll of our 10k Member Competitive group on FB, 73% of players are were interested in a lower point value (With 2k Responses, or so.)

That doesn't make much sense(your reasoning for exalted court being after warlord); the reason exalted court is after warlord is because it grants a warlord trait to each knight chosen.

Heirlooms getting changed to prevent solo knight auxiliary from being warlord wouldn't surprise me much; whether in the first FAQ, or down the line in CA 2018/the next big FAQ rebalancing.

What's the current consensus between post-codex Warglaives vs Helverins? I am considering getting a pair of armingers to make a super heavy detachment with my crusader but not sure which.

 GuardStrider wrote:
What's the current consensus between post-codex Warglaives vs Helverins? I am considering getting a pair of armingers to make a super heavy detachment with my crusader but not sure which.

In my gaming group both are seen as strong units.
Warglaives are great for backing up melee Knights and decent tank-hunters, but the Helverins are seen as the better option.
4D3 shots with an autocannon seems to be a great deal. Some of the space marine players here are considering taking several Helverins instead of their predators.
I would personally take the Helverins over the Warglaives when they are acting as support for the Crusader as they are great at taking out the smaller vehicles so that your crusader does not have to waste its weapons on those.

 Arlen wrote:

 GuardStrider wrote:
What's the current consensus between post-codex Warglaives vs Helverins? I am considering getting a pair of armingers to make a super heavy detachment with my crusader but not sure which.

In my gaming group both are seen as strong units.
Warglaives are great for backing up melee Knights and decent tank-hunters, but the Helverins are seen as the better option.
4D3 shots with an autocannon seems to be a great deal. Some of the space marine players here are considering taking several Helverins instead of their predators.
I would personally take the Helverins over the Warglaives when they are acting as support for the Crusader as they are great at taking out the smaller vehicles so that your crusader does not have to waste its weapons on those.

Yeah, I am also more inclined for Halverins gameplay wise though tbh I hate how they look

I think it depends on the rest of your army. If you have a gap then use whichever one fills that gap best. For instance I play GK and have a terrible time with heavy vehicles so I opted for the thermal spear and melee follow up.

If you look at the very first post in this thread you'll see a spreadsheet showing the average damage of IK weapons vs a variety of targets. I would use this as a guideline for your choice. And don't forget you can mix and match the armigers (as long as you use 3+) in a super heavy detachment and then select a household to make them more useful.

Basically: equally good; fill different roles.

They are equally priced point-wise with their "optimal" load-out: stubber on helverin, melta on Warglaives.

Warglaives are a get in close and tear up as much as possible.

Helverins are long range mobile fire support.

Whichever one your army is lacking, or is better supported by, is the ones you take.

If you plan to take a super-heavy detachment with 1 questoris class and 2 separate FOC Armigers you might consider taking 1 of each(although you must remeber without 3 bigger knights you don't get CPs for your Super Heavy detachment).

The points reduction and new chaincleaver profile did wonders for the Warglaive in viability: infantry used to be able to bog them down easier, and of course infantry is usually protecting vehicles from melta-type weapons(if you are within half-range for most, you are within charge range of suicidal bubble wrap).

If you hadn't picked up Forgebane then next week is the release of the warglaive box; for the $-price of 1 knight you can get 4 armigers(2 of each), so it is not a bad deal.

I agree they are different units, with entirely different roles. As such, I don’t think you should consider which to take, as such. Instead, consider each one on its own, and whether you need it in your army.

For me, the helverin has a significant weakness in not being able to fall back and shoot. It’s the only unit in your army that has to worry about the enemy getting up close and bullying it.

As such, I think I wouldn’t take one, when I can spend the points on shooty knights instead and not have this problem.

On the other hand, having splitting your melee power into multiple models, by taking warglaives instead of (for example) a gallant, gives you a few advantages. They are faster (at least unless you spend CPs on full tilt) and they can be in two places at once. They are also cheaper, which is a good thing because going close to the enemy is dangerous! And they do have a decent gun with a pretty good range, so they aren’t forced into charging at people if that’s not the correct option on any given turn. This all needs to be set against the fact that a gallant does significantly more damage against most opponents in melee - at least by my very quick calculations - though the extra melta shots do help make some of the difference.

Anyway my headline would be that I think the best approach is to put big guns on your questoris and dominus knights, and consider having some warglaives ranging ahead. I’m not too sure what helverins bring that you can’t do with the big guys.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

Finally, these strats hive the knight "Character". Does that really mean its treated as a character- ie, cannot be targeted by shooting unless it is closest model?

Well yes and no. They ARE characters but the shooting protection requires less than 10 wounds. Pretty sure no knight qualifies for that.

Honestly I'm not Impressed with the Helverins at all and think that the Warglaives are much better. The average 8 shots at 60" is nice but its only reroll options are iffy (Only closest enemy units) or Expensive (Knight-Preceptor). Also it suffers from a bit of an identiny crisis having a weapon that's not strong enough to easily wound tougher models like LRs. Is AP isn't high enough to deal with Medium-High armour units especially if they camp in cover. They only place is seems to excel is at multi-wound units with 4++ or better.

Khadorstompy wrote:
Honestly I'm not Impressed with the Helverins at all and think that the Warglaives are much better. The average 8 shots at 60" is nice but its only reroll options are iffy (Only closest enemy units) or Expensive (Knight-Preceptor). Also it suffers from a bit of an identiny crisis having a weapon that's not strong enough to easily wound tougher models like LRs. Is AP isn't high enough to deal with Medium-High armour units especially if they camp in cover. They only place is seems to excel is at multi-wound units with 4++ or better.

You now there is this busted unit called Golden Dbags Bikers rocking 3++ pretty much everywhere. Basically the exact target Helverins should be best at targeting.

Ice_can wrote:

Khadorstompy wrote:
Honestly I'm not Impressed with the Helverins at all and think that the Warglaives are much better. The average 8 shots at 60" is nice but its only reroll options are iffy (Only closest enemy units) or Expensive (Knight-Preceptor). Also it suffers from a bit of an identiny crisis having a weapon that's not strong enough to easily wound tougher models like LRs. Is AP isn't high enough to deal with Medium-High armour units especially if they camp in cover. They only place is seems to excel is at multi-wound units with 4++ or better.

You now there is this busted unit called Golden Dbags Bikers rocking 3++ pretty much everywhere. Basically the exact target Helverins should be best at targeting.

If they have a 3++, they're characters.

If i take a freeblade in an auxillary force for, say, ultramarines, would I still have access to knight stratagems? Assuming I wouldnt have that "cant use stratagems" thing of course.

If you have a detachment and it's all IKs then the strategems are open to you.

 GreatGranpapy wrote:
If i take a freeblade in an auxillary force for, say, ultramarines, would I still have access to knight stratagems? Assuming I wouldnt have that "cant use stratagems" thing of course.

Yes, and as a freeblade you wouldn't get household traditions anyways so the "loss" of that ability from a super heavy auxiliary detachment doesn't hurt you in the slightest.

You would still need to spend CPs on exalted court or heirlooms in order to make him a character though(not that he has to be a character)

Yeah a single knight taken as an ally should arguably be a freeblade nowadays. The only exception is if there's a house-specific relic, warlord trait or stratagem that you'd really like to use on it.

You could argue that the house raven stratagem is good enough to warrant this. I'm not sure there's much else that does.

Ok as i am not usually an imperium player and gave no idea what all the guard terminology means. Would some one be able to tell what i would need to purchase from the gw site in order to build the 180 point guard battery? Nothing on there is listed as just guardsmen or commanders.

So your cadian shock troops are the basic infantry: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Guard-Cadian-Shock-Troops-2017. Sorry to say you'd need 3 of this box.

And for your commanders you could make two out of this box: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Guard-Cadian-Command-Squad-2017

It's not what I would do, but those are the minis.

tneva82 wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

Finally, these strats hive the knight "Character". Does that really mean its treated as a character- ie, cannot be targeted by shooting unless it is closest model?

Well yes and no. They ARE characters but the shooting protection requires less than 10 wounds. Pretty sure no knight qualifies for that.

Ha! Right, of course. I completely forgot about that minor but oh so veey important detail.

Mandragola wrote:
So your cadian shock troops are the basic infantry: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Guard-Cadian-Shock-Troops-2017. Sorry to say you'd need 3 of this box.

And for your commanders you could make two out of this box: https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Guard-Cadian-Command-Squad-2017

It's not what I would do, but those are the minis.

Thank you for the info. As you seem against it. What would you do/suggest?

Inevitableq wrote:
Ok as i am not usually an imperium player and gave no idea what all the guard terminology means. Would some one be able to tell what i would need to purchase from the gw site in order to build the 180 point guard battery? Nothing on there is listed as just guardsmen or commanders.

Your only realy looking for 27 dudes with las guns 3 with laspistol and CCW and 2 other models for the bare bones 180 pts version
You can also do triple mortars for still sub 200

Cadian Shock Troops
Catachan Jungle Fighters
Steel Legion Squad * IMHO these look the best but I wouldn't recommend them as I think they will be discontinued soon.

If I was going guard I would go Forgeworld Death Korps of Krieg they just look so bad ass compaired to the derp face GW models.

I run a single knight currently with my GK.

It is set up as a Knight Errant as that was the best option for me prior to the new book with the weapons i had available.

Now I am thinking about building an actual IK force.

Main thing is should I swap the Errant to a Paladin with the RFBC instead? Are Wardens still generally the best option far and away? Or should I tear off the chainsword arm and add an Avenger and make it a Crusader?

This is all something I am looking at prior to buying more knights still on the fence about that or starting a Drukhari force.

I suppose I should note main opponents are:

Wraithguard/Wave serpent spam Eldar
High T/W Chaos Space Marines (Land Raider, Magnus, Hellbrutes, Terminators stuff like that.)
Imperial Guard Average mix of tanks and infantry