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Yea I was thinking 3 squads with dual melta loaded in repressors.

Oh well that will be my next project. Gonna finish up this ad mech detachment first.

Ice_can wrote:
When you say armiger do you mean warglaive or helverin?
I can see a warglaive having the issues you describe, but wouldn't a helverin have the speed and range to kite while having a weapon that is got enough range to threaten most of the board.

I used warglaives. Actually they have a decent range of 30", so they don't have to go close to be effective. But kiting isn't a thing - people teleport around the place far too much for that to be reliable. Or they fill up the board with cultists and leave you nowhere to run. Or they are Ynnari shining spears, or indeed a knight with landstrider and full tilt.

Godeskian wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Really sorry you went out like that, from such a strong position yesterday. Hope the plumbing situation is fixed!

It is, thank you.

I'd also like to add to your unit review. I took the Crusader with a Stormspear pod because I expected to see much, much more armour, but even with that being a bit of a damp squib, the Avenger and RFBC did journeyman work throughout the tournament. It never failed to kill loads of stuff, blowing enemies off key objectives, and if there was no one specific thing it had to kill, it was still killing things every single turn. I was far more impressed than I was expecting to be.

Like you I feel like the Castellan was good, but not great due to having no juicy targets. In four games I saw exactlty three vehicles. A Rhino, a Razorback and a Leviathan, and it blew each of them off the board in one round of shooting (obviously in seperate games). Sure,t he Volcano cannon killed a bunch of other stuff, but I ended up using it to finish off units, rather than as anti-vehicle. On the other hand Cawl's Wrath and the twin Siegebreakers just hammered squad after squad after squad.

And finally, the Valiant. hoo boy. Here's the problem, when the Valiant was on fire, it was an absolute wrecking ball. Despite the handwringing of online commentators, I had something worthwhile to shoot at every single turn. The 28 inch basic threat range is plenty, and when you add in the Raven move, you should never be without targets for at least the Siegebreakers (i took two) and the Conflagration cannon. However, and it pains me to say this, because nothing gives me greater joy than shouting 'MAN THE HARPOONS!!!' in a match, but the problem with the Valiant is that it is wildly inconsistent. 3D6 hits sounds great on paper, and probably does average out at about 10-11 hits, but when the dice aren't hot, and you spend several turns rolling 5 or 6 hits, as I did, it feels like a very expensive waste of points. Moreover, while its range is fine, it does have to move towards the enemy, and it just isn't good in CC against anything that is designed to be good in CC.

So I'm hoping to go to one of the other heats if they release any return tickets later, and I'd probably trade the Valiant for a dedicated close combat knight like the Lancer, or a hybrid like the Atropos. And it genuinely pains me, but I need that consistency in my killing power, the variance of the Valiant is more than i can deal with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:

The Castellan is awesome… sometimes. Line up tanks against him and he’ll batter them, at ranges that make him extremely hard for them to kill – especially with the obligatory 4++ warlord trait.

Interesting, I tossed that on the Valiant every single time, because I was using it as a massive distraction carnifex that actually has to be killed, and as a result my Castellan didn't even get shot at in my first game, and took scratch damage in two and three. I'm fairly sure he was about to get smashed to paste in my game against five captain Smashfuckers and Mephiston, but as both the Valiant and Crusader were dead at that point, it was his only target left.

I'm glad it worked for you

Thanks. I felt pretty lucky to scrape through.

On the warlord trait, I think the Castellan benefits more from the 4++. It spends more time at range, where it gets shot at by stuff like lascannons. The Valiant goes up close, where it gets shot at by everyhing, and also punched. I think the 2+ armour save would benefit it more, especially in close combat.

I'm now looking at lists featuring 3-4 Avenger Gatling Cannons. One option is to have a couple of crusaders with RFBC and ironstorm, a Warden with the fist and a couple of warglaives. Another is to have two crusaders and two wardens. Not sure which would work best.

Mandragola wrote:

Ice_can wrote:
When you say armiger do you mean warglaive or helverin?
I can see a warglaive having the issues you describe, but wouldn't a helverin have the speed and range to kite while having a weapon that is got enough range to threaten most of the board.

I used warglaives. Actually they have a decent range of 30", so they don't have to go close to be effective. But kiting isn't a thing - people teleport around the place far too much for that to be reliable. Or they fill up the board with cultists and leave you nowhere to run. Or they are Ynnari shining spears, or indeed a knight with landstrider and full tilt.

Godeskian wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Really sorry you went out like that, from such a strong position yesterday. Hope the plumbing situation is fixed!

It is, thank you.

I'd also like to add to your unit review. I took the Crusader with a Stormspear pod because I expected to see much, much more armour, but even with that being a bit of a damp squib, the Avenger and RFBC did journeyman work throughout the tournament. It never failed to kill loads of stuff, blowing enemies off key objectives, and if there was no one specific thing it had to kill, it was still killing things every single turn. I was far more impressed than I was expecting to be.

Like you I feel like the Castellan was good, but not great due to having no juicy targets. In four games I saw exactlty three vehicles. A Rhino, a Razorback and a Leviathan, and it blew each of them off the board in one round of shooting (obviously in seperate games). Sure,t he Volcano cannon killed a bunch of other stuff, but I ended up using it to finish off units, rather than as anti-vehicle. On the other hand Cawl's Wrath and the twin Siegebreakers just hammered squad after squad after squad.

And finally, the Valiant. hoo boy. Here's the problem, when the Valiant was on fire, it was an absolute wrecking ball. Despite the handwringing of online commentators, I had something worthwhile to shoot at every single turn. The 28 inch basic threat range is plenty, and when you add in the Raven move, you should never be without targets for at least the Siegebreakers (i took two) and the Conflagration cannon. However, and it pains me to say this, because nothing gives me greater joy than shouting 'MAN THE HARPOONS!!!' in a match, but the problem with the Valiant is that it is wildly inconsistent. 3D6 hits sounds great on paper, and probably does average out at about 10-11 hits, but when the dice aren't hot, and you spend several turns rolling 5 or 6 hits, as I did, it feels like a very expensive waste of points. Moreover, while its range is fine, it does have to move towards the enemy, and it just isn't good in CC against anything that is designed to be good in CC.

So I'm hoping to go to one of the other heats if they release any return tickets later, and I'd probably trade the Valiant for a dedicated close combat knight like the Lancer, or a hybrid like the Atropos. And it genuinely pains me, but I need that consistency in my killing power, the variance of the Valiant is more than i can deal with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:

The Castellan is awesome… sometimes. Line up tanks against him and he’ll batter them, at ranges that make him extremely hard for them to kill – especially with the obligatory 4++ warlord trait.

Interesting, I tossed that on the Valiant every single time, because I was using it as a massive distraction carnifex that actually has to be killed, and as a result my Castellan didn't even get shot at in my first game, and took scratch damage in two and three. I'm fairly sure he was about to get smashed to paste in my game against five captain Smashfuckers and Mephiston, but as both the Valiant and Crusader were dead at that point, it was his only target left.

I'm glad it worked for you

Thanks. I felt pretty lucky to scrape through.

On the warlord trait, I think the Castellan benefits more from the 4++. It spends more time at range, where it gets shot at by stuff like lascannons. The Valiant goes up close, where it gets shot at by everyhing, and also punched. I think the 2+ armour save would benefit it more, especially in close combat.

I'm now looking at lists featuring 3-4 Avenger Gatling Cannons. One option is to have a couple of crusaders with RFBC and ironstorm, a Warden with the fist and a couple of warglaives. Another is to have two crusaders and two wardens. Not sure which would work best.

So are you advocating no Dominus class and multiple Crusaders instead? Just trying to decide if I should buy the Castellan to go with my Gallant and Crusader.

@godeskian
I don't have an opinion on the Castellan yet as i haven't had it on the table yet. trying him out on tuesday night along side a couple of Helverins and a bunch of Sisters with all the dakka.

The Valiant on the other hand, Yes it has it's issues, but he's been the glue that holds my 2k pure knights list together. Valiant, Gallant and 2 Crusaders as Hawkshroud. The Gallant screening for the Valiant, with the crusaders flanking tucked in close. if anything wants to charge I use the hawkshroud overwatch strat and they have to deal with eating the valiant's overwatch. (Which now has a reputation at my club after a warptimed Mortarian committed suicide by turn 1 charged my Knight Deathstar (Knightstar?) and died before the valiant had fully resolved it's overwatch). The end game for the Valiant is always to get in amongst the biggest cluster of enemy units for a high value noble sacrifice, even though i'll typically Warlord the valiant for the pregame CP economy.

@themostwize
Yes, I use Knights and Sisters. I've not added it up but combined i think i could put an 8k army on the table.

In all honesty there are better options. You have to bare in mind that sisters were a good tier index army, but they haven't moved in power while every codex has raised the power bar. Sisters play need allies to work well due to limited selection of units/wargear and the way Act of Faith scales with army size, or more specifically, does not scale with army size. It's not the worst combination in the world but it's certainly not the best. Lets put it this way, I use sisters to dilute the power of pure Knights specifically for friendly games because my local meta hasn't adjusted yet.

Also @themostwize
Well godeskian is advocating for a £185 forgeworld model and mandragola is having an anti-horde overcompensation moment which is natural if you run a castellan and see 150 models getting set up across the table from you.

in all honesty it depends what type of list you want to build. Just be aware that if you want to run a castellan over almost every other option you sacrifice horde killing ability and have to find another way to compensate either with anti horde knights or anti horde allies. You'll probably want it to be mech so you you can pick up the relic plasma (not doing that is silly). so admech are actually a good fit as allies, the repair is ok but ideal you want it for the two stand out canticle options reroll 1s to hit and +1 cover save which you can feed to one mech knight through an admech strat. In all honesty though even if it's not admech any anti horde ally or anti horde focused knight combination would do. Personally i've been enjoying the alternative set up of the valiant for and 2 crusaders for avenger gattling cannons for my anti horde and my anti tank shooting coming from 2 thermal cannons. That is against my local meta though, yours might be totally different.

Yes I'm a rule of cool player of I like the way it looks I'll play it. That's where sisters are for me. Especially with the third party models.

It's why I play GK as my main lol.

Yea I was toying with running a Castellan, Crusader and Warden for the extra anti horde. The guys I play with regularly usually have quite a few vehicles or high T models.

The guard players has a large combo of both tanks and troops so the Crusader is certainly going to have to deal with them. That's why I was thinking another warden to help clear infantry with the Castellan focusing on the russes and hellhounds.

Couple of questions that I don’t see specific answers to in the Codex-

1. Can Armiger Knights also be Freeblades? I know the larger Knights can but the wording in the Codex regarding the Armigers isn’t so clear.

2. I’ve looked in the FAQ and Codex, no mention of Knights having any kind of ObSec, is this the case?

Just for kicks and giggles I tried a Freeblade Gallant this weekend with the +1A trait and 2+ Save Relic, then gave it the Legendary Hero quality (re-roll a single roll of any kind each battle round), and chose 2 Burdens: numbers 1 and 5, which only once came into play since I have to roll a 10 or more for the Burdens to take effect.
Playing the Gallant like this was great, 6 base attacks with a re-roll for misses or that one save you have to make was really worth going Freeblade.

Sharing my game from the weekend. 2k against an optimized anti-knights eldar soup. I took house Raven with a castellan, errant, warden, 2 warglaives and a basic skitarii battalion. His list was all eldar flavors but focused in the haywire harlequin jetbikes. Mission rolled for was kill points so super hard mode against knights.

Castellan did good work. Wasn't the best matchup versus all the invuls but was one of my few things left alive. In fact I did more damage to myself overcharging cawls wrath than the enemy (all the damn minuses to hit). Great array of weapons and damage potential but it is damn swingy with so many variable rolls. I was very appreciative of the shieldbreaker missiles as well as they punked a shadowseer in one go with the strategem and finished off the solitaire late game.

The 2 warglaives were my MVPs. They are fast enough to keep up with even eldar and really help positioning and force better matchups for the big knights. They had some good kills but their best use was unavoidable beatsticks.

The errant and warden we're fine, not much to say. My warden had the gauntlet relic but it never got used because it got nuked in one turn by all the haywire shooting.

I was surprised in general that the most important thing for knights was really the movement phase. You have to plan a turn or two ahead with movement as you have so few models being out of position is not an option. I won the game easily in points but I'm not sure I could say that in a more objective focused game.

Also, side note, if you face mortal wounds spam like the haywire eldar or smite don't forget knights have a strategem that can save on a 5+ like I did.

 davidgr33n wrote:
Couple of questions that I don’t see specific answers to in the Codex-

1. Can Armiger Knights also be Freeblades? I know the larger Knights can but the wording in the Codex regarding the Armigers isn’t so clear.

2. I’ve looked in the FAQ and Codex, no mention of Knights having any kind of ObSec, is this the case?

Just for kicks and giggles I tried a Freeblade Gallant this weekend with the +1A trait and 2+ Save Relic, then gave it the Legendary Hero quality (re-roll a single roll of any kind each battle round), and chose 2 Burdens: numbers 1 and 5, which only once came into play since I have to roll a 10 or more for the Burdens to take effect.
Playing the Gallant like this was great, 6 base attacks with a re-roll for misses or that one save you have to make was really worth going Freeblade.

1) yes, a datasheet of armigers can be freeblades complete with 1 getting Q&B(Q&B are also independent of SHD requirements, and can be applied to a SHAD)

2) no, knights do not ever get obsec.

3) Should have rolled for Burdens; you can both Choose 1, and roll for 1 in Q&B; also you would have suffered burdens on a roll of 9+ as you subtract 1 if you have #1.

Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, I thought about just rolling for one Burden, I just didn’t want it to be one that really would hurt my attacking ability, like being forced to move closer to the nearest enemy.

With regards to failing the Burden roll on a 9+, the Gallant is Ld9, and you have to roll equal to or greater than the Ld to fail, if I roll a 9 then it becomes an 8 which I pass. So I have to roll a 10 for it to become a 9.
Here is the wording from the Codex:

If the result is less than that Freeblade’s Leadership characteristic, their Burdens do not apply that turn. If the result equals or exceeds their Leadership characteristic, then their Burdens apply until the start of your next turn.

This is the wording of how that Burden affects the dice roll:
If a Freeblade from your army has any Burdens, roll 2D6 for them at the start of each of your turns, subtracting 1 from the result if the Freeblade has the Exiled in Shame Burden.

 Drider wrote:
Also @themostwize
Well godeskian is advocating for a £185 forgeworld model and mandragola is having an anti-horde overcompensation moment which is natural if you run a castellan and see 150 models getting set up across the table from you.

in all honesty it depends what type of list you want to build. Just be aware that if you want to run a castellan over almost every other option you sacrifice horde killing ability and have to find another way to compensate either with anti horde knights or anti horde allies. You'll probably want it to be mech so you you can pick up the relic plasma (not doing that is silly). so admech are actually a good fit as allies, the repair is ok but ideal you want it for the two stand out canticle options reroll 1s to hit and +1 cover save which you can feed to one mech knight through an admech strat. In all honesty though even if it's not admech any anti horde ally or anti horde focused knight combination would do. Personally i've been enjoying the alternative set up of the valiant for and 2 crusaders for avenger gattling cannons for my anti horde and my anti tank shooting coming from 2 thermal cannons. That is against my local meta though, yours might be totally different.

I'm not sure itr's an overcompensation moment

My experience this weekend was hugely binary. When I saw tanks I won. The Castellan was instrumental in that (when it didn't roll terribly - which it did often) but I was smashing them anyway by simply walking knights forward and engaging them in melee.

But on the other hand against hordes it's 600 points of nothing much. The 150 cultists I faced isn't even a particularly large horde, or particularly tough. The Ork and GSC codexes will be out sooner or later, and knights will have to be able to deal with them.

So my suggestion in getting rid of the Castellan and prioritising Wardens and Crusaders is about making the game less binary. It would probably be less good against the shooty lists, but it would be better against the hordes. I'd much prefer it that way. My games agaisnt Tau weren't much fun (especially for my opponents) because they were so completely one-sided, and this is also a problem. The game should be fun, which is only really possible when both players have a chance of winning every game. And that's also the only way you can win a tournament with any army. You can't take a rock/paper/scissors list, because you will always meet something you can't handle.

At 2k I think the Castellan is a compelling option. You can afford it and three other proper knights. At 1750 that isn't really possible. So for example these might be good lists:

1750:

Crusader with RFBC and ironstorm pod

Crusader with RFBC and ironstorm pod

Warden with Thunderstrike Gauntlet

2 Armiger Warglaives with Stubbers.

2000:

Castellan with 4 missiles and 1 turret

Crusader with RFBC and ironstorm pod

Crusader with TC and ironstorm pod

Warden with Thunderstrike Gauntlet and ironstorm pod.

So the point of this approach is to send as many shots as possible down range. I think at least one thunderstrike gauntlet is required for tackling characters, and it's also good to have stuff to go forwards fast, which is why I've got the armigers in the 1750 list.

 Drider wrote:


Also @themostwize
Well godeskian is advocating for a £185 forgeworld model

Yes, I suppose I am. Thing is, I’m not convinced Knights have a counter to a dedicated CC list like the Mephiston, five smashfuckers and screen list I played against. The hybrids like the Warden, Errant and Paladin will die as quickly as the Crusader did, the Gallant might kill something if he charges but again If he gets charged which is likely, then he’ll die, Armour of Sainted Iron and Sanctuary helped, but not enough. Shooting didn’t work, as between the crusaders with storm shields, the deathwatch with storm shields and the actual characters themselves with stormshields, he was able to tank a phenomenal amount of shots, which leaves me with the only thing I could think of as a counter, a dedicated CC Knight that has an invulnerable save in close combat, and the only two that have that as far as I know are the Atropos and the Lancer.

If you have a better alternative within the Knights, I’d love to hear it, and I mean that most sincerely. I’m looking for solutions to the problem of a hardcore, dedicated CC element which is well protected until it’s ready to strike.

There are 2 options

1) Sanctuary, armour of the sacred ion, styrix - gives you three knights all enhanced cc defence
2) use your batteries to screen your knights. My knights are accompanied by 60 guardsmen so against a pure CC list I can screen my knights or atleast channel the enemy into my CC knight

Smash Captains counters knights perfectly. And it will probably get worse when the new Space Wolves codex arrives and Wulfen get's updated. Thunder hammers and Storm shields and a million attacks.

I would guess looking forward pure Knights will only have a place as a "fun" but binary gatekeeper list i.e. win big or lose big.
Souped Knights is the competitive option but we are talking 1 Dominus knights and maybe 2 armigers at most.

U02dah4 wrote:
There are 2 options

1) Sanctuary, armour of the sacred ion, styrix - gives you three knights all enhanced cc defence

I used both sanctuary and armour of sainted ion. It helped but not enough, and since Styrix is a forgeworld knight as well, I'm not sure how that's a different solution to than taking a Lancer or Atropos

2) use your batteries to screen your knights. My knights are accompanied by 60 guardsmen so against a pure CC list I can screen my knights or atleast channel the enemy into my CC knight

Don't have a battery to screen with in the first place, and in the second with three squads of Deathwatch and three squads of guardsmen himself, he simply could have shot a chaff unit to pieces. Ten guardsmen are not that hard to remove


Automatically Appended Next Post:

X078 wrote:
Smash Captains counters knights perfectly. And it will probably get worse when the new Space Wolves codex arrives and Wulfen get's updated. Thunder hammers and Storm shields and a million attacks.

I would guess looking forward pure Knights will only have a place as a "fun" but binary gatekeeper list i.e. win big or lose big.
Souped Knights is the competitive option but we are talking 1 Dominus knights and maybe 2 armigers at most.

Yeah, sadly I feel like this was as close to perfect timing for an all knights list. The codex was new, the meta still favoured anti infantry, and most people hadn't yet played against knights.

I don't expect any of that to be true three months from now, even assuming I manage to aquire a ticket for the remaining heats

My plan for having any sort of a chance against smash captains is not to be in close combat with them, ever if possible. Even if you do kill them they hit you back! Overwatch isn’t a thing. One of them will have the relic jump pack that prevents it, and they’ve got too many wounds to reliably die to a single missile.

And of course smash captains are only one example of this kind of thing (albeit arguably the worst one). Lots of armies exist with mean cc threats, hidden behind screens of some sort. Guilliman can pretty much one-shot a knight, for example.

That’s why I think that a tournament-viable knights list – if it exists – will be focussed on producing a lot of weight of fire at range. Can you generate 60 wounds on that unit of crusaders in turn one? Maybe, especially if you use “blessed by the sacristans” on an avenger and get a bit lucky. Smash captains will die relatively fast once you get to shoot them.

I’m still pretty happy with Tanaris as my house. I’ve got a reasonable chance of living through a charge from a single smash captain. Then I can use the stratagem to act at full effect, fall back and unload into him. I’ll certainly lose knights but I feel like I’d have a chance with this approach, where no other build would.

The styrix is another knight with a 5++ in CC

He also has enough firepower with the 2d6 9" flamer that would wound smash CPT on 3+ and deals 3 damage has an expectancy of killing smash CPT in overwatch (except angels wing) thats before accounting for the 5 volkite shots.

Competative knights wont be mono because a few extra guard points makes them do much stronger giving you some objective holders or CC screens and you need the Cp

U02dah4 wrote:
The styrix is another knight with a 5++ in CC

He also has enough firepower with the 2d6 9" flamer that would wound smash CPT on 3+ and deals 3 damage has an expectancy of killing smash CPT in overwatch (except angels wing) thats before accounting for the 5 volkite shots.

Competative knights wont be mono because a few extra guard points makes them do much stronger giving you some objective holders or CC screens and you need the Cp

is that flamer exactly 9” if so you can’t fire overwatch on him when he deep strikes

The closest he can deepstrike is 9" if he deepstrikes at exactly 9" you can shoot him.

If he deepstrikes at more than 9" you cant shoot him but then he needs a charge role of 10" and a much greater chance of failing


Automatically Appended Next Post:

5/9 with reroll at 9" 55.5%
Vs
1/3 33% with reroll at 9.0001-10"

Either way your probably safe

Deep strike is actually more than 9" so it always means 9" flamers are never in range.

 davidgr33n wrote:
Thanks for the clarification!

Yes, I thought about just rolling for one Burden, I just didn’t want it to be one that really would hurt my attacking ability, like being forced to move closer to the nearest enemy.

With regards to failing the Burden roll on a 9+, the Gallant is Ld9, and you have to roll equal to or greater than the Ld to fail, if I roll a 9 then it becomes an 8 which I pass. So I have to roll a 10 for it to become a 9.
Here is the wording from the Codex:

If the result is less than that Freeblade’s Leadership characteristic, their Burdens do not apply that turn. If the result equals or exceeds their Leadership characteristic, then their Burdens apply until the start of your next turn.

This is the wording of how that Burden affects the dice roll:
If a Freeblade from your army has any Burdens, roll 2D6 for them at the start of each of your turns, subtracting 1 from the result if the Freeblade has the Exiled in Shame Burden.

I somehow read the burdens rule backwards; probably the drinking.

Exiled in shame seems to be a good burden to have now that I can read it sober and correctly.

You don't get to fire it. He has to deep strike outside of 9" - so by definition he is not in range. And he only has to get into 1", so he needs a 9 on 3 dice. This was addressed in a FAQ ~ a year ago.

The Styrix is still worth consideration though. It does come with a good weapon set and it's tough. It costs roughly the same as a crusader with RFBC and ironstorm pod. It does comparable damage, but also has a useful grabby hand and it's quite a lot tougher. I like the twin rad cleanser a lot. It's a real threat to things like Taloses. And if the damn smash captains are in your face it's a pretty decent option for removing them. Not to mention that a 4+ invulnerable in combat, with rotated ion shields, is seriously good news when those hammers are coming at you.

The volkite is a great gun too. It does the most damage to vehicles of any single weapon, except a TC at <18" against T8 targets with no invulnerable.

I don't think you need a Styrix, but I'm starting to think it's not awful - unless I'm getting its points cost wrong. Out of the knights with a save in cc I think it's the best.

So this is the list idea I'm toying with.

I really have 2 ideas.

List 1:

Castellan - 4 Missiles, 1 Cannon, Cawls Wrath, Ion
Crusader - Endless Fury, TC, Ironstorm
Warden - Bless by Sacristans, Thunderstrike

x2 Tech Priest Enginseer
x2 Skitarii Rangers (5) - Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex
x2 Skitarii Vanguard (5) - Caliver, Omnispex

Elctro-Priests (10)

That comes out to 1992

List 2:

Castellan - 4 Missiles, 1 Cannon, Cawls Wrath, Ion
Crusader - Endless Fury, TC, Ironstorm, Meltagun
Gallant - Knight Seneschal or Master if the Trial, Meltagun

x2 Tech Priest Enginseer
x2 Skitarii Rangers (5) - Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex
x2 Skitarii Vanguard (5) - Caliver x2, Omnispex

Elctro-Priests (10)

Comes to 2k exactly

 TheMostWize wrote:
Deep strike is actually more than 9" so it always means 9" flamers are never in range.

Fair enough


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:
You don't get to fire it. He has to deep strike outside of 9" - so by definition he is not in range. And he only has to get into 1", so he needs a 9 on 3 dice. This was addressed in a FAQ ~ a year ago.

The Styrix is still worth consideration though. It does come with a good weapon set and it's tough. It costs roughly the same as a crusader with RFBC and ironstorm pod. It does comparable damage, but also has a useful grabby hand and it's quite a lot tougher. I like the twin rad cleanser a lot. It's a real threat to things like Taloses. And if the damn smash captains are in your face it's a pretty decent option for removing them. Not to mention that a 4+ invulnerable in combat, with rotated ion shields, is seriously good news when those hammers are coming at you.

The volkite is a great gun too. It does the most damage to vehicles of any single weapon, except a TC at <18" against T8 targets with no invulnerable.

I don't think you need a Styrix, but I'm starting to think it's not awful - unless I'm getting its points cost wrong. Out of the knights with a save in cc I think it's the best.

Crusader stubber +RFBC+ironstorm 501pts

Styrix claw +rad 500pts

The Styrix actually seems like a very viable option perhaps running one with a Crusader and Warden.

Gives yous good bit of horse killing power. A character fighter kn the Styrix and a good tank smasher with the warden and thunderstrike.

 TheMostWize wrote:
So this is the list idea I'm toying with.

I really have 2 ideas.

/snip

I'm not sure these lists are legal. The admech units don't seem to fit as any detachment that I recognise.

A potential 1750 point list with a Styrix could be:

Warlord: Crusader with RFBC and ironstorm. Ion Bulwark and Endless Fury 501

Styrix with claw. Not really sure what relic/warlord trait to give this guy. I do like Veteran of Gryphonne IV for him, but only if you're House Cadmus. 500

Warden with 2+ save, Blessed by the Sacristans or landstrider 411

Armiger Warglaive 164

Armiger Helverin 174

Pleasingly, this comes to bang on 1750 points. I think it would be decent - probably better than the 1750 option with two crusaders that I posted earlier.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mandragola wrote:

 TheMostWize wrote:
So this is the list idea I'm toying with.

I really have 2 ideas.

/snip

I'm not sure these lists are legal. The admech units don't seem to fit as any detachment that I recognise.

A potential 1750 point list with a Styrix could be:

Warlord: Crusader with RFBC and ironstorm. Ion Bulwark and Endless Fury 501

Styrix with claw. Not really sure what relic/warlord trait to give this guy. I do like Veteran of Gryphonne IV for him, but only if you're House Cadmus. 500

Warden with 2+ save, Blessed by the Sacristans or landstrider 411

Armiger Warglaive 164

Armiger Helverin 174

Pleasingly, this comes to bang on 1750 points. I think it would be decent - probably better than the 1750 option with two crusaders that I posted earlier.

Yes your right I forgot to add in the 2 tech priest hqs lol. They are part of the lists just forgot to type them on my list.

Also I play 2k almost exclusively. Could fit my Ad. Mech in the list with that 1750 though for sure. I really want to get some cheap objective sitters that aren't Astra Militarum.

 TheMostWize wrote:
Yea I was thinking 3 squads with dual melta loaded in repressors.

Oh well that will be my next project. Gonna finish up this ad mech detachment first.

I've been spitballing a full sisters infantry battalion with a Warden and two helverins but it's coming in at 2100 point and there aren't any obvious points to give up. I'm going to try again with a mechanized detachment with melta dominions and probably an IG batallion, but that gets a lot more soupy.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
Couple of questions that I don’t see specific answers to in the Codex-

1. Can Armiger Knights also be Freeblades? I know the larger Knights can but the wording in the Codex regarding the Armigers isn’t so clear.

2. I’ve looked in the FAQ and Codex, no mention of Knights having any kind of ObSec, is this the case?

Just for kicks and giggles I tried a Freeblade Gallant this weekend with the +1A trait and 2+ Save Relic, then gave it the Legendary Hero quality (re-roll a single roll of any kind each battle round), and chose 2 Burdens: numbers 1 and 5, which only once came into play since I have to roll a 10 or more for the Burdens to take effect.
Playing the Gallant like this was great, 6 base attacks with a re-roll for misses or that one save you have to make was really worth going Freeblade.

1) yes, a datasheet of armigers can be freeblades complete with 1 getting Q&B(Q&B are also independent of SHD requirements, and can be applied to a SHAD)

2) no, knights do not ever get obsec.

3) Should have rolled for Burdens; you can both Choose 1, and roll for 1 in Q&B; also you would have suffered burdens on a roll of 9+ as you subtract 1 if you have #1.

2 is wrong. Knights have 2 ways to get ObSec: The Banner of Macharius Triumphant and Sworn to a Quest for Freeblades. In the Banner's case, your Knight also counts as 10 models when contesting against other ObSec units.

My mistake.

Both are from knights I don't use so I totally forgot about them.

I always play Questor Mechanicus, and never field a Freeblade.

 TheMostWize wrote:
So this is the list idea I'm toying with.

I really have 2 ideas.

List 1:

Castellan - 4 Missiles, 1 Cannon, Cawls Wrath, Ion
Crusader - Endless Fury, TC, Ironstorm
Warden - Bless by Sacristans, Thunderstrike

x2 Tech Priest Enginseer
x2 Skitarii Rangers (5) - Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex
x2 Skitarii Vanguard (5) - Caliver, Omnispex

Elctro-Priests (10)

That comes out to 1992

List 2:

Castellan - 4 Missiles, 1 Cannon, Cawls Wrath, Ion
Crusader - Endless Fury, TC, Ironstorm, Meltagun
Gallant - Knight Seneschal or Master if the Trial, Meltagun

x2 Tech Priest Enginseer
x2 Skitarii Rangers (5) - Transuranic Arquebus, Omnispex
x2 Skitarii Vanguard (5) - Caliver x2, Omnispex

Elctro-Priests (10)

Comes to 2k exactly

Where’s the hq for the Admech