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Yeah making your own weapons is totally appropriate, and I agree that the standard one doesn't look quite right, as it isn't elevated. Rather than trash an icarus though I'd probably make something else from scratch and just stick it on with a bit of brass rod through the hole in the knight's carapace.

There are quite a lot of nice options for missile launchers out there, which can easily be attached. I've used an ancient forgeworld whirlwind turret, which is about the right size. The missile launcher off a deredeo dreadnought would also be a good option, though it's not so easy to attach. The whirlwind Scorpius could be another option - just build it as a rhino and keep the turret. You could of course do the same with a GW whirlwind.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking the Crusader is money as a stand-alone Knight in an Imperial soup type list. It has less firepower than the Castellan, but it only costs 1cp to Rotate Ion Shields instead of 3, and it costs over 100 points less. It really depends on what it is supporting, and generally if you have a Castellan available, use that. But it is at least worth considering. Also, the Ironstorm Missile Pod is fun and great for blasting targets that are out of LOS, plus it is very cheap.

Yes, the Crusader is a very decent fire-support Knight. It has less tank-busting power than the Castellan but more shots which means it can clear hordes quite well too (especially the RFBC version).

If you want a compromise, take the Krast Relic as your weapons do +1 damage against targets with 10+ wounds or +2 against Titanic targets. If you are facing an opposing Knight, your AGC now dishes out 4 damage per shot. Definitely food for thought.

 Karhedron wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I'm thinking the Crusader is money as a stand-alone Knight in an Imperial soup type list. It has less firepower than the Castellan, but it only costs 1cp to Rotate Ion Shields instead of 3, and it costs over 100 points less. It really depends on what it is supporting, and generally if you have a Castellan available, use that. But it is at least worth considering. Also, the Ironstorm Missile Pod is fun and great for blasting targets that are out of LOS, plus it is very cheap.

Yes, the Crusader is a very decent fire-support Knight. It has less tank-busting power than the Castellan but more shots which means it can clear hordes quite well too (especially the RFBC version).

If you want a compromise, take the Krast Relic as your weapons do +1 damage against targets with 10+ wounds or +2 against Titanic targets. If you are facing an opposing Knight, your AGC now dishes out 4 damage per shot. Definitely food for thought.

Honestly I hadn't considered the Krast relic. Thanks! I was only thinking of Raven and Endless Fury, but I might need something to be able to fight other Knights effectively. Hordes are my main concern in my list as it stands, though.

What cha guys think about this list for taking on chaos orks and dark angels


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Imperium - Astra Militarum) [26 PL, 485pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Regimental Doctrine: Catachan

+ HQ +

Primaris Psyker [2 PL, 46pts]: Force Stave

Tempestor Prime [3 PL, 41pts]: Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Troops +

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 62pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 62pts]
. 2x Scion: 2x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

Militarum Tempestus Scions [3 PL, 56pts]
. 3x Scion: 3x Hot-shot Lasgun
. Scion w/ Special Weapon: Hot-shot Volley Gun
. Tempestor: Chainsword, Hot-shot Laspistol

+ Dedicated Transport +

Chimera [6 PL, 109pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

Chimera [6 PL, 109pts]: Heavy Flamer, Heavy Flamer

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [41 PL, 754pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Household Choice: House Hawkshroud, Questor Imperialis

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 174pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy stubber

Armiger Warglaives [9 PL, 164pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy stubber

Knight Warden [23 PL, 416pts]: Heavy stubber, Heirloom: The Paragon Gauntlet, Thunderstrike gauntlet, Warlord Trait: Ion Bulwark
. Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer: Avenger gatling cannon, Heavy flamer
. Character: Warlord

++ Super-Heavy Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Imperial Knights) [41 PL, 761pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Household Choice: House Hawkshroud, Questor Imperialis

+ Lord of War +

Armiger Helverins [9 PL, 174pts]
. Armiger Helverin: Heavy stubber

Armiger Warglaives [9 PL, 164pts]
. Armiger Warglaive: Heavy stubber

Knight Paladin [23 PL, 423pts]: Character, Heavy stubber, Heirloom: Sanctuary, Reaper chainsword, Warlord Trait: Landstrider
. Rapid-fire battle cannon w/ heavy stubber: Heavy stubber, Rapid-fire battle cannon

++ Total: [108 PL, 2000pts] ++

First off, my views will be coming from more of a competitive pov, rather than “will this give them a close fight” pov.

I’d question taking Hawkshroud vs Chaos, Orks and DA, unless you know 100% that the DA and Chaos are just going to spam lascannons.

It pains me, but I also have to ask about the Chimeras. I really want to start using them when I take guard, but, I just don’t see what they add for you in the army. It’s difficult to say, but, if they are for objective dashing later on, then, you may as well just swap them out for another 5 units of basic Guardsmen with 18 points spare. It also gives you a bit more screening etc.

As it stands though, I think the list will do very well vs most DA lists (if you can kill the Dark Shroud) and it’ll be matchup dependant vs Chaos. As for Orks, I’m not sure it’d be able to deal with a Green Tide style list at all, as you’re relying on deep striking scions (which will instantly die the turn after), 12 shots from the Warden and then 2d6 from the RFBC. The Helverins can help out turn 1 and maybe turn 2, but, I’d expect Orks to quickly lock them in combat.

The transports are there to carry the scions and provide anti infantry. I played around with tauroxs with The Gatlings good but it’s just too many point. Also looked at valkyries but again too expensive. Not cuttIng anything from the knights and I didn’t t want to have to field a billion little models but I need anti infantry fire. Thought about sisters and immolation but that’s real world money. Going today to pick up more models I’ve got 15x scions, three full guard squads (again for model count purposes I don’t like fielding). So it’s basicall down to getting one Valkyrie and going to a vanguard guard detachment, tauroxes and vanguard or battalion and chimera


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So I’ll end up buy either:
2x taurox
1 Valkyrie
1 demolisher (punisher tank commander)
2x chimera


Just not sure what yet

Why are you transporting scions?
Your deepstriking them.

If your not deepstriking them, why are you playing Scions.
Also, get rid of all those hot shot las pistols. range is useless, get bolt pistols for the same cost.

Remove a Chimera. upgrade the paladin to a Crusader.
Remove the other Chimera for 9 mortars.

 Ordana wrote:
Why are you transporting scions?
Your deepstriking them.

If your not deepstriking them, why are you playing Scions.
Also, get rid of all those hot shot las pistols. range is useless, get bolt pistols for the same cost.

Remove a Chimera. upgrade the paladin to a Crusader.
Remove the other Chimera for 9 mortars.

If you want to go full competitive, I would second this as a credited response.

I don’t want a million models to move

Kdash wrote:

The first list is interesting, but, I almost wonder if it’d be more worth running 2 Castallen and 1 Crusader, as opposed to 3 Castallen.

What about something like this?

Super Heavy Detachment House Raven : 

604 – Knight Castellan, Ion Bulwark and Cawl's Wrath 
515 – Knight Crusader, RFBC and Twin Icarus, Armor of the Sainted Ion, Master of the Trial 
501 – Knight Crusader, RFBC and Ironstorm Missile Pod (Rotate Ion Shield for 1 CP)

Astra Millitarum Battalion: 

195 – 2 Company Commanders, 3 Infantry Squads w/ Mortars

Astra Millitarum Battalion: 

185 – Company Commander (Warlord, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquilla), Lord Commissar, 3 Infantry Squads

2000 points - 19 CP – 6 CP (3 for Heirlooms, 3 for Exalted Court, refunded on a 5+) 

That'd be a tough list. I'm looking at running some thing similar but only 1 crusader, gallant, and the 2nd AM battalion is scions for the option of deepstriking. I think that will help give the list some flexibility

 Ebon wrote:

Kdash wrote:

The first list is interesting, but, I almost wonder if it’d be more worth running 2 Castallen and 1 Crusader, as opposed to 3 Castallen.

What about something like this?

Super Heavy Detachment House Raven : 

604 – Knight Castellan, Ion Bulwark and Cawl's Wrath 
515 – Knight Crusader, RFBC and Twin Icarus, Armor of the Sainted Ion, Master of the Trial 
501 – Knight Crusader, RFBC and Ironstorm Missile Pod (Rotate Ion Shield for 1 CP)

Astra Millitarum Battalion: 

195 – 2 Company Commanders, 3 Infantry Squads w/ Mortars

Astra Millitarum Battalion: 

185 – Company Commander (Warlord, Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquilla), Lord Commissar, 3 Infantry Squads

2000 points - 19 CP – 6 CP (3 for Heirlooms, 3 for Exalted Court, refunded on a 5+) 

You cannot refund pre game stratagems. Please read up on the faq's.

 Ordana wrote:
You cannot refund pre game stratagems. Please read up on the faq's.

Gotcha, I see that now.

Also updated the list by dropping the missile pod, and adding 3 Mortars and a Bolter to my Warlord.

Super Heavy Detachment House Raven:

604 – Knight Castellan, Ion Bulwark and Cawl's Wrath
515 – Knight Crusader, RFBC, Twin Icarus, Master of the Trial and Armor of the Sainted Ion
485 – Knight Crusader, RFBC (Rotate Ion Shield for 1 CP each turn)

Astra Millitarum Battalion:

196 – Company Commander (Warlord: Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquilla and Bolter), Company Commander, 3 Infantry Squads w/ Mortars

Astra Millitarum Battalion:

200 – Company Commander, Lord Commissar, 3 Infantry Squads w/ Mortars

2000 points – 19 CP – 6 CP (3 for Heirlooms, 3 for Exalted Court)

I ran something very similar to this last week at an IRC RTT and went 2-1. I tabled two opponents and lost a nailbiter game by one move versus VECT/ALAITOC/Hemlock soup. Just posting this before the BAO. I will provide updates.

RAVEN - castellan, gallant w/Icarus, gallant w/Stormspear
BLANGELS - 2x smashCaptain, 3x5 bolter scouts with stormbolter
VALHALLA - 2x commander, 3x10 guards with bolter

This list spends down to 10CP at the start of the game and has full GS + Vitae CP farm. 4++, Cawl's, and Landstrider are my choices for my knights. Gallants must full tilt every game. I always roll to explode my knights. Smash captains do what smash captain do. I have a few bad matchups: eldar flyer spam (but I have smashcap), and chaos 4++ horror spam. But I will think I can compete with the list i Have. I have a good amount of troops and the gallants gonna do what they do. Plan is everything blows up but I have some troops on objectives at the end of the game.

2 Gallants and Slam Caps. That is a lot of punch sir! Best of luck at BAO.

I'm also contemplating the IG/BA/Knights list atm. Something like:

Cadian (?) Battalion
Company Commander
Primaris Psyker
3 Infantry squads w/ mortars

BA Battalion
Slamguinius
Slamguinius
3 Scout squads

House Raven Lance
Castellan - Bulwark, Cawl's
Gallant - Landstrider
Warden

I really like the idea of the Warden over another Gallant, but maybe cheaper is better.

Looks very strong. I would spend an additional CP to give the Warden Endless Fury at you have something like 19CPs in that list. Will you fit it all into 2000 points though?

IG clocks in around 200 points. BAs around 425 while the Knights come in around 1300 (depending on carapace options). I guess you could well be OK.

BAO - knights did ok ish. 2 in the top 4 if I read that right on BCP?

Will await our very own daka reporter in the field wulfey with a story of what went down.

Looks like renegade knights also featured pretty solidly in the winning death guard list too!

 Ideasweasel wrote:
BAO - knights did ok ish. 2 in the top 4 if I read that right on BCP?

Will await our very own daka reporter in the field wulfey with a story of what went down.

That's an understatement! The non-championship table in round 6 featured two "pure" knight lists. They both had a minimal guard batallion if I remember correctly but were 1800ish points knights. One of those lists therefore made it through the entire tournament undefeated.

The winner of BAO hadroughly 1200 points of death guard and 800 points of knights. (I think it was a double AGC crusader w/ Ironstorm & 2x Helverins)

I'd argue that knights were the single strongest faction there. That'll change when the meta adapts with them, I imagine psychic spam and invulns could be a solution but IK (and their renegade counterpart) did amazing at BAO

I went 4-2.

I barely won versus a total time sink 150 tyranid list.
I barely lost versus my 4 knight teammate who ended up getting second place [ I went second and he had my list but a crusader instead of my BLANGELS, my knight suicide plan killed my critical objective holding scouts and swung a tight game ].
I got wasted by a 3 riptide 3 fusion commander 20 shield drone list that got first turn on the close deployment.
I demolished a 35 drop guard infantry list.
I won going second against a 4 ionHead/longstrike, 2x riptide, 4x markerlight, 1x missilecommander list [this was overall the best game, it was hard fought and was all over the board. My castellan drew audible laughs from onlookers when he full whiffed on a volley and killed like 2 shield drones total].
I hard tabled a chaos soup list when I got first turn and my castellan aced magnus in 1 round of fire.

Ended 29 of 130.

SUMMARY: my list was flatly suboptimal. The raven gallants were still gallants and when they made combat they always kicked hard ass, but they just aren't TERRYN or KRAST. The castellan, when he got his shots off with no -1 modifiers (BEWARE 18" from TAU commanders), he demolished whatever he felt like killing. But when he sucked, then I was stuck with two suboptimal gallants and mr whiffer the castellan.

The better gallant list was Mark's. He ran:

3x terryn gallants
2x slamcaptains, 3x5 scouts, 1x15 deathcompany bomb
2x commanders, 3x guards

This went 5-1 and only lost on time to my teammate who had 150 chaos models (this is just rude and lame, I know he is a teammate but srsly people stop bringing more than 100 models).

Assuming castellans are not nerfed, I think the future of castellan lists are either in hard knight lists like my teammate jons (castellan, crusader, gallant, gallant, cadia-battalion, and going first in his 5 hard games), or in some kind of double castellan + guard brigade shenanigans. Something like: guard-brigade, raven-castellan, mortan-castellan, both castellans with WLTs/Relics

How did he enjoy the 3 Terryn Gallants? I've been considering Lancer and 2x Gallant rather than Lancer, Gallant, 3x Warglaives, but I rarely see others using Terryn.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
How did he enjoy the 3 Terryn Gallants? I've been considering Lancer and 2x Gallant rather than Lancer, Gallant, 3x Warglaives, but I rarely see others using Terryn.

He swore by it. He gave it the acronym CPEA and demanded that if I used the list I had to use the acronym too. You only get the acronym in PM. The idea is, that if your opponent aces a gallant before your first turn, terryn gallants fight like two gallants when you give them CP. And they can die swinging if they don't explode. And they can make 32" first turn charges. So two surviving gallants consistently outfight other types of gallants. And if you get first turn, TERRYN is 100% inside of your opponents lines every turn. And the death company provide a 6th threat to double swing, whereas my list only ever had 5 threats and only my captains could double swing.

I dig it. Thanks!

Wulfey wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
How did he enjoy the 3 Terryn Gallants? I've been considering Lancer and 2x Gallant rather than Lancer, Gallant, 3x Warglaives, but I rarely see others using Terryn.

He swore by it. He gave it the acronym CPEA and demanded that if I used the list I had to use the acronym too. You only get the acronym in PM. The idea is, that if your opponent aces a gallant before your first turn, terryn gallants fight like two gallants when you give them CP. And they can die swinging if they don't explode. And they can make 32" first turn charges. So two surviving gallants consistently outfight other types of gallants. And if you get first turn, TERRYN is 100% inside of your opponents lines every turn. And the death company provide a 6th threat to double swing, whereas my list only ever had 5 threats and only my captains could double swing.

Congrats to your teammates, hope you guys had fun.

So if you had to do it all again, what would you change?

OK, so, it's a bit late, but here's my write up of how my list did at the NWO last weekend.

My list was a slight curve ball and did reasonably ok when i wanted it to. It was -

Super Heavy Detachment (Mortan) -
1 Crusader with RFBC and Icarus - Warlord - Mortan WL trait. Banner of Macharius Triumphant relic.
1 Crusader with Thermal Cannon and Ironstorm pod - Ion Bulwark WL trait. Endless Fury relic.
1 Gallant with Ironstorm pod - Landstrider WL trait. Armour of the Sainted Ion relic.
1 2x Helverin with Stubbers

Battalion (Vostroyan) -
1 Company Commander with Bolter - Aquila relic.
1 Lord Commissar with pistol and power sword
2 Infantry squads - sergeant with bolter and chainsword
1 29x Conscript squad
1 Astropath

Ok, so the event didn't need WL, trait or relic picking pre event, but i did so anyway, and stuck to it matching my list - which i think worked out as a mistake in the end. Started each game with 7 out of 14 starting CP.
I picked Mortan for the stratagem and WL trait, expecting to come up against a lot of Aeldari/Drukari. Vostroyan for the extra 6" range and the order to fire while stuck in combat. The stratagem is also pretty nice as well.

Game plan was essentially to have the Conscripts at least running around with Ld 10 thanks to the Relic Banner buffing the Lord Commissar up to Ld 10. Needless to say, this worked maybe once in 5 games and was a complete waste of a relic slot. The obsec did help massively in one game though.
It is also worth noting that i used chess clocks in my game 1 and 2. After that i realised it wasn't really necessary as we were finishing games easily within the 3 hour time slot - even when going to turn 5 on both games. (i think both me and Mike ended up with over 30 minutes left on the clock game 2 as well)

Game 1 - ITC Champions mission 3.
I played vs Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle.

It was a great game, but, heavily in my favour. Unfortunately the GKs couldn't do much, even though they won the roll to go first, and when they finally got a couple of units into combat with my Gallant it was without Hammerhand buffs and i just wrecked him when attacking back. My conscripts survived Celestine for a couple of turns (i tried the Vostroyan order and stratagem combo here and it did absolutely nothing, even with 24 rapid firing lasguns - i think i gave up on the combat after this). I also got super lucky in that his Errant only did a couple of wounds turn 1, while my Thermal cannon Crusader did significantly more in return. The hardest thing here was killing Celestine. However, thanks to the Helverins massive range i was able to kill her twice within a full turn (combat his turn, shooting mine). I ended up tabling him on turn 5. Won the game 38-12.

Game 2 - ITC Champions mission 2.
So, i played Mike Porter. LGT best General winner and his Imperium Soup list.

So, first off, it was an ABSOLUTELY terrible table for me. Every piece of terrain on the table with a "ruined" 2 level building with 4 complete walls on each piece. Essentially my Knights could not shoot or charge anything on the table while they were inside the buildings. I gave him first turn, hoping to try and draw him out towards me and risk a full on turn 1 all in, but, he played it safe. Essentially for turns 1-2 he didn't kill anything but was able to start building up objective and recon points, while i was able to fire my 2 Ironstorm pods into his mortar teams. Turn 3 i had to open up and bait my Gallant in order to start picking up more points. My biggest issue here is that i completely forgot about the fight again/fight after dying stratagems on BOTH the Custodes and BA. While i was able to kill 2 of the 3 Smash Captains and all 3 Shield Captains in combat and shooting in turns 3-5, the simple fact of him fighting twice killed me. 1 Crusader managed to take on all 3 Shield Captains and win over the course of 2-3 turns. I also made the mistake of going for the Reaper secondary. I only picked up 1 point on this, after it took a Helverin 2 turns to kill 1 squad (the other died in a charge of 30 infantry models backed up by the priest and straken lol). In the end i was tabled by the end of turn 5. I lost 31-17 (It's also worth noted that i finished the game with 8CP even though i was burning through them thanks to him starting with 21 cp lol)

Game 3 - ITC Champions mission 5.
Up against my first Aeldari soup list

Ok, so i didn't get first turn again. I had a bit of luck, in that he left my Thermal Cannon Crusader alive on 1-3 wounds after everything had shot. However, my first turn saw me fail to get my Conscripts and Commander onto the central objective, so i didn't start picking up the bonus points early. I killed a couple of Raiders but also made a massive mistake when i forgot the flyers were Alaitoc Crimson Hunters instead of Razorwings (they were painted in a DE colour scheme, but no excuse as i had his list in front of me ) As a result i didn't kill enough turn 1.
Turn 2 saw him kill my Gallant and the 1 wound Crusader. My WL and, to an extent, the Helverins however kept me in the game. Using the Mortan stratagem my WL was able to take out both Crimson hunters in a turn, while the Helverins picked off wounds on the Scourges and Ravagers. By the end of the game i only had my Lord Commissar and WL Crusader left alive.
My biggest mistake this game was picking Headhunter as a secondary. I didn't get a single point in it as i didn't have the ability to target the characters, let alone has the spare fire power to actually target them if i could. Likewise, by failing some movement distances turn 1, i also missed out on some key recon and bonus points.
In the end i lost 30-24 in a game that naturally ended after turn 6.

Game 4 - ITC Champions mission 1
Pure Durkari this time!

Ok, so a completely different DE list. I didn't get 1st turn again, however, this lead to me getting a 1st turn charge off with the Gallant without needing to use Full Tilt. Not much to say on this game other than my dice were extremely good, and his wounding rolls were unfortunately shocking. In the end i tabled him without losing a Knight in turn 5. A great guy to play against, but, not really an enjoyable game to play simply due to dice. I won 36-14.

Game 5 - ITC Champions mission 4.
My first, and only Knight v Knight game

So. he was running Krast. I wasn't.
Again, i gave up 1st turn this game as we were playing Spearhead? deployment - Pointy hammer and anvil. It was a big mistake but wouldn't have changed the game. I was out of range with everything, his Castellan wasn't. After 2 turns of brutal firing, 2 of my Knights were on 7 and 4 wounds each, and after creating some gaps to bait in the smash captains, my WL was hurting as well. However, my WL was able to pick up kills on 2 smash captains before going down. best moment of the game was having a Gallant v Gallant fight as we both knew who was going to win by this point. Even with 7 wounds remaining, my Gallant was about to do 24 damage in the first turn of combat alone thanks to Mortan's +1 WS. Needless to say, the Gallant exploded and put me down to 3 wounds, so it died pretty quickly after! Even though i was outclassed in terms of damage output, he played it smart for mission points so it ended with a loss of 30-20. As you can imagine, all 6 turns took less than 1 hour.

One thing that is important to note, is that the NWO and LCO events don't use the ITC 1000 points for a win scoring. Instead, each win is worth 40 points, and a draw 20. This, as you can imagine, keeps things pretty close in the standings.
So, all in all, with 2 wins and 3 losses i finished 30th out of 64 - finishing ahead of some people that won more games than me.

It was a great event, run incredibly well with lots of great people, armies and the tables were fantastic. (bar the 1 pure city table that screwed me over hahahaha!!!) I think there was only 1 army there that was a easy to spot "rushed job".

Take aways for my Knights.
The banner relic didn't do what i wanted except in 1 game. Not worth it, but i am glad to tested it in an event.
Mortan is good, especially vs Aeldari and armies that was to get in your face (smash captains and shield captains). I didn't really get much success out of Death Grip, cos the first time i used it i rolled a 1 on the first roll off and he rolled a 6...so... I didn't really need it at all in the other games.
Vostroyan, nice, but i didn't need the range except once where the 15" rapid fire helped, the order wasn't really worth it, and the stratagem never really got used as i didn't feel the need to merge the 2 infantry squads or didn't have a good enough target that the conscripts needed the buff for. Probably best to just run Valhallan next time.
Helverins. Ok, so, i don't think i'll be running them again. They did ok in some games, but then were incredibly poor in others. In the end i was using them more for their 14" movement to get up the table and score points than i was for their firepower - and if i'm going to do that i might as well just run Warglaives or spend a small amount of extra points on a 2nd Gallant. They are great for shooting things like Ravagers, but, beyond that i felt they were struggling to make back their points cost vs the other armies i fought.
Landstrider. I didn't feel like i needed this either. I took it as a "just in case", but without going first in any of my games it didn't really come into play. I'd have had a lot more use from the +1 attack WL trait, as when the Gallant got into combat nothing really survived.

Next steps is probably dropping both Helverins and just adding in 2 Smash Captains and scouts. It REALLY pains me to say or think that, but, the different between the 2 sets of units is massive.
That said, i'm not sure i'll take Knight again to my next event - or if i do, it'd probably be on a smaller scale of 1 Gallant and 2 Warglaives. They have the ability to do really well, but i feel like it depends on so many other things that are outside of your control.


Highest place list with a Knight detachment came 2nd. It included a Raven Castellan, Warden and Gallant, alongside a Shadowsword and a guard battalion.

I think there was only 1 pure Knight list at the event and it finished 28th.

All in all a good event, and i'm looking forward to the LCO in January. The NWO was a 70 person event (though people dropped out as the Squid Badgers' secret weapon is challenging people to keep up with their drinking games and a lot of people... suffer. lol! ) but the LCO will be either a 120 or 150 person event held in a convention centre in Southport. So, if you're looking for some practice prior to heading over to Vegas a couple of weeks after, then i fully recommend trying out the event!

Kdash wrote:
OK, so, it's a bit late, but here's my write up of how my list did at the NWO last weekend.

My list was a slight curve ball and did reasonably ok when i wanted it to. It was -

Super Heavy Detachment (Mortan) -
1 Crusader with RFBC and Icarus - Warlord - Mortan WL trait. Banner of Macharius Triumphant relic.
1 Crusader with Thermal Cannon and Ironstorm pod - Ion Bulwark WL trait. Endless Fury relic.
1 Gallant with Ironstorm pod - Landstrider WL trait. Armour of the Sainted Ion relic.
1 2x Helverin with Stubbers

Battalion (Vostroyan) -
1 Company Commander with Bolter - Aquila relic.
1 Lord Commissar with pistol and power sword
2 Infantry squads - sergeant with bolter and chainsword
1 29x Conscript squad
1 Astropath

Ok, so the event didn't need WL, trait or relic picking pre event, but i did so anyway, and stuck to it matching my list - which i think worked out as a mistake in the end. Started each game with 7 out of 14 starting CP.
I picked Mortan for the stratagem and WL trait, expecting to come up against a lot of Aeldari/Drukari. Vostroyan for the extra 6" range and the order to fire while stuck in combat. The stratagem is also pretty nice as well.

Game plan was essentially to have the Conscripts at least running around with Ld 10 thanks to the Relic Banner buffing the Lord Commissar up to Ld 10. Needless to say, this worked maybe once in 5 games and was a complete waste of a relic slot. The obsec did help massively in one game though.
It is also worth noting that i used chess clocks in my game 1 and 2. After that i realised it wasn't really necessary as we were finishing games easily within the 3 hour time slot - even when going to turn 5 on both games. (i think both me and Mike ended up with over 30 minutes left on the clock game 2 as well)

Game 1 - ITC Champions mission 3.
I played vs Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle.

Spoiler:

1 Brother Captain
1 GM Dreadknight
3 strike squads
1 Ancient
1 Dreadknight

Celestine
1 Seraphim unit
2 Dominions with stormbolters
1 Rhino

1 Knight Errant

It was a great game, but, heavily in my favour. Unfortunately the GKs couldn't do much, even though they won the roll to go first, and when they finally got a couple of units into combat with my Gallant it was without Hammerhand buffs and i just wrecked him when attacking back. My conscripts survived Celestine for a couple of turns (i tried the Vostroyan order and stratagem combo here and it did absolutely nothing, even with 24 rapid firing lasguns - i think i gave up on the combat after this). I also got super lucky in that his Errant only did a couple of wounds turn 1, while my Thermal cannon Crusader did significantly more in return. The hardest thing here was killing Celestine. However, thanks to the Helverins massive range i was able to kill her twice within a full turn (combat his turn, shooting mine). I ended up tabling him on turn 5. Won the game 38-12.

Game 2 - ITC Champions mission 2.
So, i played Mike Porter. LGT best General winner and his Imperium Soup list.

Spoiler:

Guard Brigade - Catachan
Straken
1 Commander - WL full cp farm
3 Prim Pyskers
6 Infantry squads
3 Hellhounds
1 Priest
2 Plat Commanders
3 Mortar teams

BA battalion
3 Smash Captains - 1 with cp farm, 1 with Angels wings
3 Scouts

Custodes Supreme command
3 Bike Captains - 2 with 3++

So, first off, it was an ABSOLUTELY terrible table for me. Every piece of terrain on the table with a "ruined" 2 level building with 4 complete walls on each piece. Essentially my Knights could not shoot or charge anything on the table while they were inside the buildings. I gave him first turn, hoping to try and draw him out towards me and risk a full on turn 1 all in, but, he played it safe. Essentially for turns 1-2 he didn't kill anything but was able to start building up objective and recon points, while i was able to fire my 2 Ironstorm pods into his mortar teams. Turn 3 i had to open up and bait my Gallant in order to start picking up more points. My biggest issue here is that i completely forgot about the fight again/fight after dying stratagems on BOTH the Custodes and BA. While i was able to kill 2 of the 3 Smash Captains and all 3 Shield Captains in combat and shooting in turns 3-5, the simple fact of him fighting twice killed me. 1 Crusader managed to take on all 3 Shield Captains and win over the course of 2-3 turns. I also made the mistake of going for the Reaper secondary. I only picked up 1 point on this, after it took a Helverin 2 turns to kill 1 squad (the other died in a charge of 30 infantry models backed up by the priest and straken lol). In the end i was tabled by the end of turn 5. I lost 31-17 (It's also worth noted that i finished the game with 8CP even though i was burning through them thanks to him starting with 21 cp lol)

Game 3 - ITC Champions mission 5.
Up against my first Aeldari soup list

Spoiler:

1 archon
2 Scourge with haywire
3 dis Ravagers

2 Archon - blasters
2 Kabalites x10 with blaster
1 Kabalite x5
3 Raiders with Dark Lances

1 Farseer Skyrunner
1 Warlock Skyrunner
3 Rangers
2 Crimson Hunters - bright lances

Ok, so i didn't get first turn again. I had a bit of luck, in that he left my Thermal Cannon Crusader alive on 1-3 wounds after everything had shot. However, my first turn saw me fail to get my Conscripts and Commander onto the central objective, so i didn't start picking up the bonus points early. I killed a couple of Raiders but also made a massive mistake when i forgot the flyers were Alaitoc Crimson Hunters instead of Razorwings (they were painted in a DE colour scheme, but no excuse as i had his list in front of me ) As a result i didn't kill enough turn 1.
Turn 2 saw him kill my Gallant and the 1 wound Crusader. My WL and, to an extent, the Helverins however kept me in the game. Using the Mortan stratagem my WL was able to take out both Crimson hunters in a turn, while the Helverins picked off wounds on the Scourges and Ravagers. By the end of the game i only had my Lord Commissar and WL Crusader left alive.
My biggest mistake this game was picking Headhunter as a secondary. I didn't get a single point in it as i didn't have the ability to target the characters, let alone has the spare fire power to actually target them if i could. Likewise, by failing some movement distances turn 1, i also missed out on some key recon and bonus points.
In the end i lost 30-24 in a game that naturally ended after turn 6.

Game 4 - ITC Champions mission 1
Pure Durkari this time!

Spoiler:

2 Archon - blast pistols
2 Kablites x5 with blaster
1 Kabalite x5
2 Incubii x5
2 Raiders with Dark Lance and grenade launcher

Urien
1 Haemonculus
3 wracks x5 with hex rifle and ossefactor
1 unit of Talos
1 Cronos

Leith
2 Reavers x6 with grav talon and heat lances
1 Hellions x9

Ok, so a completely different DE list. I didn't get 1st turn again, however, this lead to me getting a 1st turn charge off with the Gallant without needing to use Full Tilt. Not much to say on this game other than my dice were extremely good, and his wounding rolls were unfortunately shocking. In the end i tabled him without losing a Knight in turn 5. A great guy to play against, but, not really an enjoyable game to play simply due to dice. I won 36-14.

Game 5 - ITC Champions mission 4.
My first, and only Knight v Knight game

Spoiler:

1 Castellan with 4 missiles
1 Crusader with RFBC
1 Gallant

3 BA Smash captains

2 Company Commanders
3 Infantry squad

So. he was running Krast. I wasn't.
Again, i gave up 1st turn this game as we were playing Spearhead? deployment - Pointy hammer and anvil. It was a big mistake but wouldn't have changed the game. I was out of range with everything, his Castellan wasn't. After 2 turns of brutal firing, 2 of my Knights were on 7 and 4 wounds each, and after creating some gaps to bait in the smash captains, my WL was hurting as well. However, my WL was able to pick up kills on 2 smash captains before going down. best moment of the game was having a Gallant v Gallant fight as we both knew who was going to win by this point. Even with 7 wounds remaining, my Gallant was about to do 24 damage in the first turn of combat alone thanks to Mortan's +1 WS. Needless to say, the Gallant exploded and put me down to 3 wounds, so it died pretty quickly after! Even though i was outclassed in terms of damage output, he played it smart for mission points so it ended with a loss of 30-20. As you can imagine, all 6 turns took less than 1 hour.

One thing that is important to note, is that the NWO and LCO events don't use the ITC 1000 points for a win scoring. Instead, each win is worth 40 points, and a draw 20. This, as you can imagine, keeps things pretty close in the standings.
So, all in all, with 2 wins and 3 losses i finished 30th out of 64 - finishing ahead of some people that won more games than me.

It was a great event, run incredibly well with lots of great people, armies and the tables were fantastic. (bar the 1 pure city table that screwed me over hahahaha!!!) I think there was only 1 army there that was a easy to spot "rushed job".

Take aways for my Knights.
The banner relic didn't do what i wanted except in 1 game. Not worth it, but i am glad to tested it in an event.
Mortan is good, especially vs Aeldari and armies that was to get in your face (smash captains and shield captains). I didn't really get much success out of Death Grip, cos the first time i used it i rolled a 1 on the first roll off and he rolled a 6...so... I didn't really need it at all in the other games.
Vostroyan, nice, but i didn't need the range except once where the 15" rapid fire helped, the order wasn't really worth it, and the stratagem never really got used as i didn't feel the need to merge the 2 infantry squads or didn't have a good enough target that the conscripts needed the buff for. Probably best to just run Valhallan next time.
Helverins. Ok, so, i don't think i'll be running them again. They did ok in some games, but then were incredibly poor in others. In the end i was using them more for their 14" movement to get up the table and score points than i was for their firepower - and if i'm going to do that i might as well just run Warglaives or spend a small amount of extra points on a 2nd Gallant. They are great for shooting things like Ravagers, but, beyond that i felt they were struggling to make back their points cost vs the other armies i fought.
Landstrider. I didn't feel like i needed this either. I took it as a "just in case", but without going first in any of my games it didn't really come into play. I'd have had a lot more use from the +1 attack WL trait, as when the Gallant got into combat nothing really survived.

Next steps is probably dropping both Helverins and just adding in 2 Smash Captains and scouts. It REALLY pains me to say or think that, but, the different between the 2 sets of units is massive.
That said, i'm not sure i'll take Knight again to my next event - or if i do, it'd probably be on a smaller scale of 1 Gallant and 2 Warglaives. They have the ability to do really well, but i feel like it depends on so many other things that are outside of your control.


Highest place list with a Knight detachment came 2nd. It included a Raven Castellan, Warden and Gallant, alongside a Shadowsword and a guard battalion.

I think there was only 1 pure Knight list at the event and it finished 28th.

All in all a good event, and i'm looking forward to the LCO in January. The NWO was a 70 person event (though people dropped out as the Squid Badgers' secret weapon is challenging people to keep up with their drinking games and a lot of people... suffer. lol! ) but the LCO will be either a 120 or 150 person event held in a convention centre in Southport. So, if you're looking for some practice prior to heading over to Vegas a couple of weeks after, then i fully recommend trying out the event!

Thank you for the extensive write up. Actual game experience reports I think is the best info. Do you feel a castellan would have helped a bit since you faced so much armor across the games?

 buddha wrote:

Kdash wrote:
OK, so, it's a bit late, but here's my write up of how my list did at the NWO last weekend.

My list was a slight curve ball and did reasonably ok when i wanted it to. It was -

Super Heavy Detachment (Mortan) -
1 Crusader with RFBC and Icarus - Warlord - Mortan WL trait. Banner of Macharius Triumphant relic.
1 Crusader with Thermal Cannon and Ironstorm pod - Ion Bulwark WL trait. Endless Fury relic.
1 Gallant with Ironstorm pod - Landstrider WL trait. Armour of the Sainted Ion relic.
1 2x Helverin with Stubbers

Battalion (Vostroyan) -
1 Company Commander with Bolter - Aquila relic.
1 Lord Commissar with pistol and power sword
2 Infantry squads - sergeant with bolter and chainsword
1 29x Conscript squad
1 Astropath

Ok, so the event didn't need WL, trait or relic picking pre event, but i did so anyway, and stuck to it matching my list - which i think worked out as a mistake in the end. Started each game with 7 out of 14 starting CP.
I picked Mortan for the stratagem and WL trait, expecting to come up against a lot of Aeldari/Drukari. Vostroyan for the extra 6" range and the order to fire while stuck in combat. The stratagem is also pretty nice as well.

Game plan was essentially to have the Conscripts at least running around with Ld 10 thanks to the Relic Banner buffing the Lord Commissar up to Ld 10. Needless to say, this worked maybe once in 5 games and was a complete waste of a relic slot. The obsec did help massively in one game though.
It is also worth noting that i used chess clocks in my game 1 and 2. After that i realised it wasn't really necessary as we were finishing games easily within the 3 hour time slot - even when going to turn 5 on both games. (i think both me and Mike ended up with over 30 minutes left on the clock game 2 as well)

Game 1 - ITC Champions mission 3.
I played vs Grey Knights and Sisters of Battle.

Spoiler:

1 Brother Captain
1 GM Dreadknight
3 strike squads
1 Ancient
1 Dreadknight

Celestine
1 Seraphim unit
2 Dominions with stormbolters
1 Rhino

1 Knight Errant

It was a great game, but, heavily in my favour. Unfortunately the GKs couldn't do much, even though they won the roll to go first, and when they finally got a couple of units into combat with my Gallant it was without Hammerhand buffs and i just wrecked him when attacking back. My conscripts survived Celestine for a couple of turns (i tried the Vostroyan order and stratagem combo here and it did absolutely nothing, even with 24 rapid firing lasguns - i think i gave up on the combat after this). I also got super lucky in that his Errant only did a couple of wounds turn 1, while my Thermal cannon Crusader did significantly more in return. The hardest thing here was killing Celestine. However, thanks to the Helverins massive range i was able to kill her twice within a full turn (combat his turn, shooting mine). I ended up tabling him on turn 5. Won the game 38-12.

Game 2 - ITC Champions mission 2.
So, i played Mike Porter. LGT best General winner and his Imperium Soup list.

Spoiler:

Guard Brigade - Catachan
Straken
1 Commander - WL full cp farm
3 Prim Pyskers
6 Infantry squads
3 Hellhounds
1 Priest
2 Plat Commanders
3 Mortar teams

BA battalion
3 Smash Captains - 1 with cp farm, 1 with Angels wings
3 Scouts

Custodes Supreme command
3 Bike Captains - 2 with 3++

So, first off, it was an ABSOLUTELY terrible table for me. Every piece of terrain on the table with a "ruined" 2 level building with 4 complete walls on each piece. Essentially my Knights could not shoot or charge anything on the table while they were inside the buildings. I gave him first turn, hoping to try and draw him out towards me and risk a full on turn 1 all in, but, he played it safe. Essentially for turns 1-2 he didn't kill anything but was able to start building up objective and recon points, while i was able to fire my 2 Ironstorm pods into his mortar teams. Turn 3 i had to open up and bait my Gallant in order to start picking up more points. My biggest issue here is that i completely forgot about the fight again/fight after dying stratagems on BOTH the Custodes and BA. While i was able to kill 2 of the 3 Smash Captains and all 3 Shield Captains in combat and shooting in turns 3-5, the simple fact of him fighting twice killed me. 1 Crusader managed to take on all 3 Shield Captains and win over the course of 2-3 turns. I also made the mistake of going for the Reaper secondary. I only picked up 1 point on this, after it took a Helverin 2 turns to kill 1 squad (the other died in a charge of 30 infantry models backed up by the priest and straken lol). In the end i was tabled by the end of turn 5. I lost 31-17 (It's also worth noted that i finished the game with 8CP even though i was burning through them thanks to him starting with 21 cp lol)

Game 3 - ITC Champions mission 5.
Up against my first Aeldari soup list

Spoiler:

1 archon
2 Scourge with haywire
3 dis Ravagers

2 Archon - blasters
2 Kabalites x10 with blaster
1 Kabalite x5
3 Raiders with Dark Lances

1 Farseer Skyrunner
1 Warlock Skyrunner
3 Rangers
2 Crimson Hunters - bright lances

Ok, so i didn't get first turn again. I had a bit of luck, in that he left my Thermal Cannon Crusader alive on 1-3 wounds after everything had shot. However, my first turn saw me fail to get my Conscripts and Commander onto the central objective, so i didn't start picking up the bonus points early. I killed a couple of Raiders but also made a massive mistake when i forgot the flyers were Alaitoc Crimson Hunters instead of Razorwings (they were painted in a DE colour scheme, but no excuse as i had his list in front of me ) As a result i didn't kill enough turn 1.
Turn 2 saw him kill my Gallant and the 1 wound Crusader. My WL and, to an extent, the Helverins however kept me in the game. Using the Mortan stratagem my WL was able to take out both Crimson hunters in a turn, while the Helverins picked off wounds on the Scourges and Ravagers. By the end of the game i only had my Lord Commissar and WL Crusader left alive.
My biggest mistake this game was picking Headhunter as a secondary. I didn't get a single point in it as i didn't have the ability to target the characters, let alone has the spare fire power to actually target them if i could. Likewise, by failing some movement distances turn 1, i also missed out on some key recon and bonus points.
In the end i lost 30-24 in a game that naturally ended after turn 6.

Game 4 - ITC Champions mission 1
Pure Durkari this time!

Spoiler:

2 Archon - blast pistols
2 Kablites x5 with blaster
1 Kabalite x5
2 Incubii x5
2 Raiders with Dark Lance and grenade launcher

Urien
1 Haemonculus
3 wracks x5 with hex rifle and ossefactor
1 unit of Talos
1 Cronos

Leith
2 Reavers x6 with grav talon and heat lances
1 Hellions x9

Ok, so a completely different DE list. I didn't get 1st turn again, however, this lead to me getting a 1st turn charge off with the Gallant without needing to use Full Tilt. Not much to say on this game other than my dice were extremely good, and his wounding rolls were unfortunately shocking. In the end i tabled him without losing a Knight in turn 5. A great guy to play against, but, not really an enjoyable game to play simply due to dice. I won 36-14.

Game 5 - ITC Champions mission 4.
My first, and only Knight v Knight game

Spoiler:

1 Castellan with 4 missiles
1 Crusader with RFBC
1 Gallant

3 BA Smash captains

2 Company Commanders
3 Infantry squad

So. he was running Krast. I wasn't.
Again, i gave up 1st turn this game as we were playing Spearhead? deployment - Pointy hammer and anvil. It was a big mistake but wouldn't have changed the game. I was out of range with everything, his Castellan wasn't. After 2 turns of brutal firing, 2 of my Knights were on 7 and 4 wounds each, and after creating some gaps to bait in the smash captains, my WL was hurting as well. However, my WL was able to pick up kills on 2 smash captains before going down. best moment of the game was having a Gallant v Gallant fight as we both knew who was going to win by this point. Even with 7 wounds remaining, my Gallant was about to do 24 damage in the first turn of combat alone thanks to Mortan's +1 WS. Needless to say, the Gallant exploded and put me down to 3 wounds, so it died pretty quickly after! Even though i was outclassed in terms of damage output, he played it smart for mission points so it ended with a loss of 30-20. As you can imagine, all 6 turns took less than 1 hour.

One thing that is important to note, is that the NWO and LCO events don't use the ITC 1000 points for a win scoring. Instead, each win is worth 40 points, and a draw 20. This, as you can imagine, keeps things pretty close in the standings.
So, all in all, with 2 wins and 3 losses i finished 30th out of 64 - finishing ahead of some people that won more games than me.

It was a great event, run incredibly well with lots of great people, armies and the tables were fantastic. (bar the 1 pure city table that screwed me over hahahaha!!!) I think there was only 1 army there that was a easy to spot "rushed job".

Take aways for my Knights.
The banner relic didn't do what i wanted except in 1 game. Not worth it, but i am glad to tested it in an event.
Mortan is good, especially vs Aeldari and armies that was to get in your face (smash captains and shield captains). I didn't really get much success out of Death Grip, cos the first time i used it i rolled a 1 on the first roll off and he rolled a 6...so... I didn't really need it at all in the other games.
Vostroyan, nice, but i didn't need the range except once where the 15" rapid fire helped, the order wasn't really worth it, and the stratagem never really got used as i didn't feel the need to merge the 2 infantry squads or didn't have a good enough target that the conscripts needed the buff for. Probably best to just run Valhallan next time.
Helverins. Ok, so, i don't think i'll be running them again. They did ok in some games, but then were incredibly poor in others. In the end i was using them more for their 14" movement to get up the table and score points than i was for their firepower - and if i'm going to do that i might as well just run Warglaives or spend a small amount of extra points on a 2nd Gallant. They are great for shooting things like Ravagers, but, beyond that i felt they were struggling to make back their points cost vs the other armies i fought.
Landstrider. I didn't feel like i needed this either. I took it as a "just in case", but without going first in any of my games it didn't really come into play. I'd have had a lot more use from the +1 attack WL trait, as when the Gallant got into combat nothing really survived.

Next steps is probably dropping both Helverins and just adding in 2 Smash Captains and scouts. It REALLY pains me to say or think that, but, the different between the 2 sets of units is massive.
That said, i'm not sure i'll take Knight again to my next event - or if i do, it'd probably be on a smaller scale of 1 Gallant and 2 Warglaives. They have the ability to do really well, but i feel like it depends on so many other things that are outside of your control.


Highest place list with a Knight detachment came 2nd. It included a Raven Castellan, Warden and Gallant, alongside a Shadowsword and a guard battalion.

I think there was only 1 pure Knight list at the event and it finished 28th.

All in all a good event, and i'm looking forward to the LCO in January. The NWO was a 70 person event (though people dropped out as the Squid Badgers' secret weapon is challenging people to keep up with their drinking games and a lot of people... suffer. lol! ) but the LCO will be either a 120 or 150 person event held in a convention centre in Southport. So, if you're looking for some practice prior to heading over to Vegas a couple of weeks after, then i fully recommend trying out the event!

Thank you for the extensive write up. Actual game experience reports I think is the best info. Do you feel a castellan would have helped a bit since you faced so much armor across the games?

Erm, the Castellan would have helped in the final game to the point where i could probably switch the Crusader i was using as my WL to it without too much of a loss overall. However, beyond that i don't think i struggled too much to take down all the other vehicles with what i had - bar the odd range issue. Str 6 was enough in a lot of cases, but, if you're expecting to face more T7-T8 things then i think it'd be worth it. It just hurts going from 12 shots to 2d6 though as it could make things a little more swingy - especially if you just need to wipe out the last 5 infantry models etc.

Took this army up against a 140+ ork ghazghul list Sunday. Nearly Board wiped them but it took 5 turns. Would have lost thanks to objectives and da jump but game continued so I focus fired down a weird boy. Dealing with ork hordes is not as much of a problem as feared


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also hilarious moment cake when the chimeras and two big knights charged the last remaining ork squad and a bunch of characters including the weird boy. Basically encircled them and killed everyone except the weird boy who promptly looked down at the shatter corpse of what used to be ghazghul (who got death gripped) and said “well screw this im out”

Alright today I will be going into a topic that hasn’t gotten too much talk, but is a very powerful tool that all knight players should take advantage of. That tool being sideboarding relics and warlord traits.

For those unaware, sideboarding is concept that comes from TCGs. Essentially players go to tournaments with a main deck and a smaller sideboard of cards. Each match during a tournament is determined by a best out 3 game seres. After playing the first game with their main deck, players have the option to mix any cards from their main deck and sideboard. This is extremely valuable as certain cards might range from game —breakingly powerful in one matchup, to absolutely worthless in another. To put it simply, sideboarding allows a certain degree of matchup tailoring that previously didn’t really exist in 40k.

So how does concept of sideboarding transfer into 40k? Well in ITC the only set desicion you have to make for every match regarding warlord traits and relics is a set relic for one character, and deciding who will be your walord. Everything else is decided after you already know your opponents list. This includes what trait your warlord gets, who gets extra relics and traits, and what traits and relics those guys get. This is extremely powerful as it gives Knight players a lot of objections to Tailor their lists.

A good example of a sideboard relic is the Krast relic huntsman’s mark. Simply put it increases the damage of EVERY weapon of the bearer against models with a wounds characteristic of 10 or more by 1, and gives +2 agisnt titanicic units. This makes the relic perfect in some matchups while completely useless in others. With this I was able to kill a buddies full wound 4++ gallant in single round of shooting from a crusader. A lot of luck was involved to fully kill it, but it wasn’t unreasonable for me to expect around 15 wounds from that volley (as I also had the krast warlord trait to re-roll 1s).As you can see the mark is fantastic at its top potential, but can also be worthless against lists with no 10 or wound models. Hence the relic showing off the sideboard concept in 40k.

While huntsman mark does an excellent job of showing off the extreme side of the sideboard concept, pretty much any trait or relic can be bad in a certain matchup . For example pretty much everyone knows that ion bulwark (4++ ion shield) is the best Warlord trait in the book, but I can give you matchup where it’s bad. Jeff (InControl) Robinson brought a Custodies list the BAO (large tournament) which featured 1 gun where bulwark would be very useful against (a shield captain salvo launcher). Against that list, bulwark just simply isn’t worth it. And before anyone asks, Geoff was extremely close to winning the tournament. So if bulwark can be sided out you have to think pretty much any trait or relic can be sided out.

Thanks for getting through this wall of text. My overall point is just consider the concept of sideboarding when building a list for a tournament. Also Krast is for sure the best house. Obviously much weaker strat than Raven and a worse household tradition than 6++++ (although I think the re-rolls to hit in close combat is severely underrated). The kicker however, is that Krast has the best house relic and warlord trait by far, giving krast he overall advantage.